Official Yoshi CG List ""FRAME DATA INFO CHANGED A FEW THINGS"" (Updated on 9/29/09)

[SOVAman]

I'd like to request Falco be removed from this list.
We all know he CAN escape it and, assuming our opponents are at high levels of play, he WILL escape it.

Just an update Falco can not escape

Csn't escape, Mmac CG'd my ZSS today.

Thanks now we all agree.

 

[Ryusuta]

he can, as well as most of the people on that list! LOL!!

if yoshi really had an infinite on wario
if yoshi could really spike snake out of grab release
if yoshi could literally chain-grab all of his bad match-ups,
don't you think that some of the better players would have picked up on this and started maining yoshi?

Well, he has seen an increase in tournament play lately, so... yes.

it's not because "they haven't realized yoshi's potential" it's because they know yoshi can't chaingrab all the characters on that list.

Or... um... because they want to use other characters?

Mmac, i'm not trying to berate you or offend you in any way, i'm doing this because if we realize what yoshi does have then we can focus on and expand it, instead of wasting time trying to prove something thats wrong. I can't think of any tournaments that you have been to irl, and i hear you play on wifi a lot, but maybe thats why you are convinced that yoshi can chaingrab these characters.

I don't want to go ad hom here, but I'm going to have to. Isn't this a long, drawn-out, overly complicated way of saying that YOU can't chaingrab these characters, and need help with it?

Yoshi's CGs have been tested to exhaustion, and are completely, 100% CONFIRMED. This isn't speculation, this is an actual technique that has been used since its discovery to great effect in competitive environments. If people are escaping you, you're either doing it wrong, or your timing is off.

I'm pretty consistent in going to tournaments both here in houston and out of state and i know that i could never win a match by chaingrabbing a snake because it's impossible, i've tried this on half the roster with professional players around the country and they figure out pretty fast theres ways out of it.

This is actually true. You CAN'T win a tournament just be chaingrabbing alone. If you could, Ice Climbers and DeDeDe would be the undisputed tournament champions.

But to say that it's not a viable and INCREDIBLY important strategy is just ludicrous.

I've even talked to other yoshi players about this and they agree with me that it can't be done (not going to call names) but looking at their results it's these players that typically have the most consistent yoshi results, this is because they are aware of yoshi's strengths and weaknesses, and know what he can and can't do.

First of all, this is what is known as "anecdotal evidence," and is therefore automatically void.

Second, even if it WERE a viable argument to say "I know some guys that say this is true," (and it's not) it's incredibly suspicious that you can't be bothered to list who they are. If they were worth ANYTHING on the competitive scene, we'd probably have heard something from them by now. Your friends might be really cool at your local tournaments, don't get me, wrong, but they're clearly not in a position to decide the character's metagame.

I know that you're going out on a limb and wanting to play the role of the "realist," and I respect that. But this has been tested by SEVERAL tournament-level players under RIDICULOUS amounts of situations and conditions, and it is as confirmed as Meta Knight's IDC or Snake's Mortar Slide. You were the one that messed up, not Mmac.

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ Mmac and Lil'B: Yes, Falco CAN escape with a spotdodge. Both of you have said that. Just to be sure, I tested it earlier today and, guess what? He can escape. And do me a favor and don't say "You're doing it wrong".

@ Furbs: The Wario infinite is doable, and the Wario mains know it. All the other things you listed are things I have been skeptical about for some time, and I've said so. BTW welcome to the pessimist side

@ Sir Orion: What tournament level players has this been tested by? Lil'B is the only tournament-level Yoshi I know of that agrees with the entire list. Several other prominent Yoshi mains (Bwett, Stocky, Shiri...) have voiced their doubts on several points since this thread was made.

 

[Mmac]

YOUR DOING IT WRONG!

But seriously, if you do it fast enough, you can grab him before he can activate a SpotDodoge

 

[Chaco]

Yoster also agrees Kiwi.

 

[SOVAman]

Kiwi he can not spot dodge if you do it right also Yoster I thought I proved to you that the CG works on Falco at C3 also ask OffTheChain I played him at Cyberden and CGed him the whole set.

 

[chimpact]

I have yet to CG a Falco. Why is he listed on easy?

 

[Deleted member]

Furbs, yoshi can indeed infinate wario(i just mastered it, but i gotta resist doin it in friendlies, it pisses people off =P). Many of these are doable if you buffer a dash(which i fail at). Some of these im skeptical about.

 

[Chaco]

Yep, you have to buffer dash....that is Lil'B's sermon. XD

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

I feel like an idiot for asking this.

What does it mean to buffer a dash?

*runs*

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Check Shiri's post on page 15. It'll answer your question.

 

[Bwett]

@ Sir Orion: What tournament level players has this been tested by? Lil'B is the only tournament-level Yoshi I know of that agrees with the entire list. Several other prominent Yoshi mains (Bwett, Stocky, Shiri...) have voiced their doubts on several points since this thread was made.

I agree with Kiwi and Furbs. There are ALOT of things that have been said on the Yoshi boards that I personally don't agree with when talking about CGing, spiking out of grabs, along with other things.

Not to offend you, Mmac, but I really don't like how you deem certain things inescapable (which you tend to do quite a bit). I've been saying that MK spike is escapable since the beginning, as well as other things.

We need to take a step back and really focus on what can and cannot be done. I have tried many times against DDD and I don't think he can be CG'ed. Sure, I haven't gone in 1/4th time and tried it, but I believe my timing to be pretty good and if I haven't even come close to getting it, then how are yall getting it, unless the DDD isn't DI'ing away and jumping. Same with Falco and spotdodging.

We can't be so disillusioned by the "grandeur of Yoshi" as to ignore his weaknesses and what he can't do.

 

[Chaco]

I agree with Kiwi and Furbs. There are ALOT of things that have been said on the Yoshi boards that I personally don't agree with when talking about CGing, spiking out of grabs, along with other things.

Not to offend you, Mmac, but I really don't like how you deem certain things inescapable (which you tend to do quite a bit). I've been saying that MK spike is escapable since the beginning, as well as other things.

We need to take a step back and really focus on what can and cannot be done. I have tried many times against DDD and I don't think he can be CG'ed. Sure, I haven't gone in 1/4th time and tried it, but I believe my timing to be pretty good and if I haven't even come close to getting it, then how are yall getting it, unless the DDD isn't DI'ing away and jumping. Same with Falco and spotdodging.

We can't be so disillusioned by the "grandeur of Yoshi" as to ignore his weaknesses and what he can't do.

I CG'd 3D once....but I had to buffer my dashes. And, the spikes I've never really tested, I've only used the MK one....so I can't be apart of this.

*stands on the side lines*

And guys, let's keep the Yoshi civil war from happening, like it is starting. V_V

 

[chimpact]

Well Ive done it against Squirtle Ganon MK and Sheik.

 

[bigman40]

How about we start this list with the characters we KNOW that CANNOT get out of it? We were fine there until we started getting into some of the harder CGs.

 

[Mmac]

How about we start this list with the characters we KNOW that CANNOT get out of it? We were fine there until we started getting into some of the harder CGs.

Everyone one the "Easy section" work, except maybe Falco

On the Medium section, I have done it to Wario, DK, and Charizard numerous. Link I haven't done it recently, but only due to lack of Link battles.

On the hard section, I have done ZSS's CG multiple times recently, in battle and for proof.

So the Questionable ones are Falco, Ike (Ike is surprisingly hard), Link, Dedede, and Snake (Wolf I believe is not CG'able)

Although I do swear that you can grab Falco before he can do a dodge move to avoid it. Although Bwett might be right in the sense that Dedede is probably too impractical to do. He's easily the hardest (Unless Wolf REALLY can be CG'ed) and is really not worth the effort unless you have god-like reactions

 

[Shiri]

The thing about King Dedede is not so much the difficulty of the CG...

...but, rather, the fact that if you mess up (which will happen more often than not, unfortunately), you will get grabbed back. Even if the grab you receive doesn't result in a CG, we're still talking damage and knockback that you're taking that most assuredly isn't worth the risk.

I would stick to distance throws against King Dedede or grab releases at the edge. Maybe even running behind him and pivoting, but relying on a CG that's too hard to do and too risky to mess up seems very...not good to me.

 

[SOVAman]

I have been doing the CG since the list came out and it took me about 2 weeks (not playing everyday though) of trying to perfect buffering dashes to CG D3 but, once you get it down all the people on the list except maybe Wolf works.

Just Practice!!!!!!!

I think I have to re-test Wolf though.

Yep, you have to buffer dash....that is Lil'B's sermon. XD

True =)

 

[Mmac]

Wolf I believe is the only one on that list that I don't think it's possible to do.

I haven't been able to do it once. And I spent a good 40 Minutes trying to do it on that CG Video a few months ago

 

[SOVAman]

Wolf I believe is the only one on that list that I don't think it's possible to do.

I haven't been able to do it once. And I spent a good 40 Minutes trying to do it on that CG Video a few months ago

i need one more person to tell me to take it off then I will


I like confirmation even though Me and Mmac are pro CGers so we don't really need it.

 

[Chaco]

I've tried it, knock it off.

 

[SOVAman]

I've tried it, knock it off.

Done Deal

10eggs

 

[peeup]

Which characters can you fair meteor smash out of a grab release? I know you can own squirtle that way, but who (if anyone) else?

 

[Chaco]

There is a thread on it.

 

[Mmac]

Which characters can you fair meteor smash out of a grab release? I know you can own squirtle that way, but who (if anyone) else?

MetaKnight, Falco, Ganondorf, Squirlte, Wolf, Fox, and Sheik

MetaKnight is rather hard to do though. *Sigh* I would be so happy if I could do it rather easily

 

[Ryusuta]

Meta's not TOO hard to do, you just have to be a little more precise and a LOT more careful, hehe.

 

[Chaco]

Meta's not TOO hard to do, you just have to be a little more precise and a LOT more careful, hehe.

I get him everytime I try it. XD

 

[Ryusuta]

(My way was the nice way of saying that, Chaco. )

 

[peeup]

Considering the fair meteor grab release thing kinda has to do with the CG, shouldn't info on it be in the OP? CG to grabrelease-meteor is a pwnage combo that deserves recognition.

 

[Ryusuta]

Considering the fair meteor grab release thing kinda has to do with the CG, shouldn't info on it be in the OP? CG to grabrelease-meteor is a pwnage combo that deserves recognition.

I actually agree with this completely. I think that this topic should be combined with the grab-release thread to save space and focus conversation, since they're very closely related. Perhaps we could c/p the grab-release topic's first post onto the end of this one.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Mmac has requested that his cg->fair info not be posted in this thread.

 

[Ryusuta]

Well, that's really stupid.

Come on, Mmac. Is it too efficient? Does it make to much sense? Does it focus the discussion too much? Does it make reference too easy? What possible reason could you have for not wanting that to be posted here? I'm sure proper credit will always be given where it's deserved.

I mean, if someone wanted to use my Egg Toss Tap Jump discoveries on their topic, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever (actually, I'd prefer it).

 

[Mmac]

Fine, whatever.

Must we bring this up again?

 

[peeup]

My apologies for bringing this up--I didn't know it was a touchy subject, and I thought it would be nice info to have.

 

[Ryusuta]

For the record, this is the first time I've brought it up. It would be a lot easier to know that a subject shouldn't be broached if you explained why it's taboo.

 

[Sharky]

I've been wondering, would a DR/DT'd F-smash be fast enough to hit with after a grab release with anyone? I know it's a bit slower than the u-smash, and my grip on DR isn't quite up to par to properly test this, so could someone check this out? It'd give us some much faster kills from the side of the stage, if it works. =D

 

[SOVAman]

I've been wondering, would a DR/DT'd F-smash be fast enough to hit with after a grab release with anyone? I know it's a bit slower than the u-smash, and my grip on DR isn't quite up to par to properly test this, so could someone check this out? It'd give us some much faster kills from the side of the stage, if it works. =D

Maybe MK but its very unnecessary on the release simply because you can UpSmash or Uair.

 

[Chaco]

I've been wondering, would a DR/DT'd F-smash be fast enough to hit with after a grab release with anyone? I know it's a bit slower than the u-smash, and my grip on DR isn't quite up to par to properly test this, so could someone check this out? It'd give us some much faster kills from the side of the stage, if it works. =D

Sub did this to me once I believe.

 

[Ryusuta]

I'd like to give this a try, although it might be a little hard for me, since I'd have to change my hand positioning to accomodate it. Perhaps if I pummeled with the A button, I could get it to work. Nice idea!

 

[Sharky]

Maybe MK but its very unnecessary on the release simply because you can UpSmash or Uair.

wouldn't f-smash kill earlier at the side of the stage, though? That's the only reason I was interested in it lol.