Official Wolf Metagame Discussion

[Koskinator]

What a weird page 8 this has been.... indeed Tomato Kirby.

 

[Loup17]

Well, for the first stock then, you should keep a hidden agenda for a possible Forward B kill early in the match.

That seem a bit more realistic?

actually, you could keep a hidden agenda for a possible forward b kill early every life, as the stale moves counter gets reset every time you die >.>

What in the flying **** have you been smoking?

i second that O.o

 

[Kashakunaki]

I third it... perhaps we should just leave him be.

Eh, I'll take Bair over Fair anyday. Also, I'm going to AzOneTwoStep this weekend. For those of you who don't know about it is a 150+ person tournament with both Melee and Brawl singles and doubles. I'll be entering doubles and singles. Popular people such as Taj, Forward, Ken, Isai, and more will be there, too.

I'll let you know how I do and hopefully I can get some videos up.

 

[Computer]

Scarring = Probably more than half my kills.


Yeah, that much. Not many Wolf mains scar, so opponents usually don't see it coming. Even in the 3rd or 4th match, you always have the option to just grab the ledge, then fair from the ledge (Forgot what that's called? Move away from the ledge, jump, fair) or just laser them.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Wolf counters meta so much. I will defianetly start playing as wolf just to counter MK.

Alright note to self:

Never return back to the wolf boards after about a week, and expect to see nothing less then insane post...and insane people @.@ like myself

 

[Juggalo]

then fair from the ledge (Forgot what that's called?)

its called a ledge fair, lol

 

[Kashakunaki]

Scarring = Probably more than half my kills.


Yeah, that much. Not many Wolf mains scar, so opponents usually don't see it coming. Even in the 3rd or 4th match, you always have the option to just grab the ledge, then fair from the ledge (Forgot what that's called? Move away from the ledge, jump, fair) or just laser them.

1. That's sad

2. It's just ledge hopping an aerial. In this case a ledge hopped Fair.

 

[§witch]

Scarring = Probably more than half my kills.


Yeah, that much. Not many Wolf mains scar, so opponents usually don't see it coming. Even in the 3rd or 4th match, you always have the option to just grab the ledge, then fair from the ledge (Forgot what that's called? Move away from the ledge, jump, fair) or just laser them.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure every wolf main scars, when it's appropriate...

Meaning when the stage can be scarred and the opponent is ignorant enough to try and edge guard a wolf.

 

[AlAxe]

forward b can actually get surprisingly low percent kills, the only problem is that it gets stale super fast once your own percent starts to go up because it's the prefered method of returning to the stage. when i can, i almost always use up b, because i have actually gotten kills a couple times with wolf flash, and it makes me smile every time.

It's not like using wolf flash as a recovery will make it impossible for you to get kills with it. I actually seem to get quite a few kills while recovering with wolf flash.

 

[AlAxe]

I read your signature, Juggalo... and anything else that I may have been thinking about just went away.

Don't let them get to you Juggalo. If I lived in Houston I would smoke a blunt with you. I seem to play Brawl better after a good smoke anyway.

On another note Wolf's dash canceled upsmash is amazing. It's quite difficult, more difficult than characters like Snake and Link, but every Wolf main should learn it. While I'm still a bit inconsistent with it, I've used it very effectively in matches. I think I made a post that said that this wasn't that useful but I take that back.

 

[gyzmo392]

im not the best wolf player but he is fun and i use to main him but this is what i know
1. fsmash is great and wide ranged.
2. laser is great for using of the edge and after using dthrow.
3. fspecial is really glitchy but really fun.
4. not that great of recover.
5. jumping on someone with nair is good for follow up combos
6. awesome taunts

let me know what else

 

[YagamiLight]

I've been trying some stuff out on a Level 9 Bowser (Since he's big and any possible chains will be apparent on him). I was wondering if I could get some confirmation on these:

Backthrow to chase to backthrow (Until 28%, 30% with pummeling)

Dthrow+Dthrow+Dthrow (No chase required) (36%, 39% possible with pummeling at the end)

 

[Kashakunaki]

Scarring sucks. So easily predictable and punishable. I'd recommend using it scarcely to not at all.

 

[:034:]

Scarring sucks. So easily predictable and punishable. I'd recommend using it scarcely to not at all.

I see what you did there.

 

[Timbers]

Scarring sucks. So easily predictable and punishable. I'd recommend using it scarcely to not at all.

Pretty true. I'll find myself using it once at the most in a span of a dozen matches. It's almost like people beg for you to use it.

What are people's thoughts on Wolf's tilts? I've heard that ftilt is easily punished (true, from personal experience) but I haven't heard much on dtilt and utilt. Dtilt seems like a safe move. Nice range and quick. I actually enjoy utilt as well, but it's dreadfully lacking in horizontal range. I'm pretty sure that this discussion took place a while back, but it doesn't hurt to get new/existing opinions.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Thank you GOD, Timbers. Someone who understands. It works one or two times against someone who has never even seem a Wolf scar, but after that they practically beg you to use it so they can get a free kill.

Forward tilt isn't the worse move in the world and often times if you hit someones shield with the first hit, they'll react too slowly and get hit by the second hit. However, that is wholly unreliable as anyone who knows diddly would just dodge roll and punish you during your lag. In conclusion forward tilt is decent. You can live without it, but it does do its part. Know that it is there.

I think up tilt is garbage. Sure it comes out quick but the lack of horizontal reach and the down time is insanely ********. I prefer to avoid this move all together. I will, however, use it occasionally to prop someone back in the air if I am juggling as it is quicker than the Up Smash as a whole. According to tests it also kills (fresh) Mario on FD at around 130% so I may resort to it as a desperate kill move if necessary (say if my Dsmash is stale).

Dtilt rocks. End of story. It is quick with decent IASA frames. It doesn't have the best knockback in the world but it has range and edge guard decently. I find using this move after say a Fair or when you need to give yourself space is a good thing. A lot of people won't see it coming.

 

[Timbers]

Thank you GOD, Timbers. Someone who understands. It works one or two times against someone who has never even seem a Wolf scar, but after that they practically beg you to use it so they can get a free kill.

Har, yeah. You almost always have a better option for getting onto the stage. If they're simply standing in the general vicinity of the sweetspot, it's more or less a guarantee they're expecting you to use it. It's predictable.

Forward tilt isn't the worse move in the world and often times if you hit someones shield with the first hit, they'll react too slowly and get hit by the second hit. However, that is wholly unreliable as anyone who knows diddly would just dodge roll and punish you during your lag. In conclusion forward tilt is decent. You can live without it, but it does do its part. Know that it is there.

It's not terrible, but to actually get the second hit on the ftilt, they have to be like, as close as dtilt range. I'd simply prefer dtilt (in terms of tilts, not overall moveset) over ftilt on a grounded opponent. If my opponent approaches with shorthops, or are simply midair, I'll go for the ftilt over an fair. As long as they're not in a position to shield it, I have no problem using it. That situation arises maybe 4 times a game, though.

I think up tilt is garbage. Sure it comes out quick but the lack of horizontal reach and the down time is insanely ********. I prefer to avoid this move all together. I will, however, use it occasionally to prop someone back in the air if I am juggling as it is quicker than the Up Smash as a whole. According to tests it also kills (fresh) Mario on FD at around 130% so I may resort to it as a desperate kill move if necessary (say if my Dsmash is stale).

Yeah, I can think of a few times where they've been JUST out of reach (which is like, one whole character length..) and get punished for it. It's definitely not a shining move, but I've found occasional uses for it. It sets up a nice juggle. They just have to be like right on top of you to use it.

Dtilt rocks. End of story. It is quick with decent IASA frames. It doesn't have the best knockback in the world but it has range and edge guard decently. I find using this move after say a Fair or when you need to give yourself space is a good thing. A lot of people won't see it coming.

Hurrah. Agreed.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Alright, so it seems that people are starting to question specific things so if you wouldn't mind, I'll add my two cent's in:

Scarring is a good recovery move, BUT you do have other options(dont forget your Up B wolf players). Other then that, peopl do tend to catch on after one or two scars, and I'll vouge for that since you can easily be stopped by D-smash(especially of your dittoing). D-tilt is a good spacing move, as well as can be followed up quite well. The reach is a bit short but its still a good substitute for the F-tilt(range is about the same expect like the above poster said, it's around the second hit of F-tilt).

 

[§witch]

Kosk shower me an awesome thing with dtilt on delfino, When it changes to the market place, there's a drop with the wall there, he got me in a dtilt chain, up to like 50%, dtilt is my favourite of his tilts.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Dtilt is my favorite tilt is well, I just don't use his tilts hardly.

I believe everyone knew you could "infinite" with his dtilt, though. In reality it can be teched until higher percents or unless spaced properly.

Also, the ftilt has more range in the air, too. You can also aim it.

 

[AlAxe]

Scarring sucks. So easily predictable and punishable. I'd recommend using it scarcely to not at all.

Scaring is good if you use it right. You have to alternate between actually scarring and just using forward b to grab the ledge. If you're good at it you can be pretty much impossible to edgegaurd.

 

[§witch]

Dtilt is my favorite tilt is well, I just don't use his tilts hardly.

I believe everyone knew you could "infinite" with his dtilt, though. In reality it can be teched until higher percents or unless spaced properly.

Also, the ftilt has more range in the air, too. You can also aim it.

I was more referring to the fact that you can use it on a stage that can actually be played in a tourney. As for ftilt range in the air...I don't understand what you said.

 

[Kashakunaki]

The hit box of the down tilt follows closely along the ground whereas the hit box for the forward tilt is higher off the ground, not to mention you can aim it diagonally upwards. Ergo, it has more air flexibility or range or whatever you want to say.

@AlAxe: Try telling that to someone who is good at the game.

 

[Timbers]

The hit box of the down tilt follows closely along the ground whereas the hit box for the forward tilt is higher off the ground, not to mention you can aim it diagonally upwards. Ergo, it has more air flexibility or range or whatever you want to say.

Which is why I like it against characters who enjoy approaching with sh aerials.

d :

 

[§witch]

Alright, I gotcha now.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Which is why I like it against characters who enjoy approaching with sh aerials.

d :

*cough*Metaknight*cough*

 

[ArcPoint]

For me, I never seem to be in Dtilt range. I cannot seem to find use for it... it always seems like a Sh Bair or ACFair is better for that scenario. Granted it trips. but I still cannot find a use for it. When do you guys usually use it?

I'll admit up tilt absolutely sucks... went the opponent is adjacent to you. When they're on platforms, and they're above you. THAT'S where up tilt becomes a useful move. An upsmash may cause more damage, but it's a little slower (Because the first hit of USmash doesn't hit) and so yeah. Uptilt is great when they're above you, never for opponents that are adjacent to you...

 

[Azure Rune]

...........

 

[chronoize]

@Rune
ive tried it couple times, and correct me if im wrong but i couldn't do boost smashing with a b-stick setup. my suggestion is to get use to the motions of forward momentum b-air, so you'll have the ability to use both in one match.

i was just curious, how do you wolf players use your tilts.

up-tilt - i see people say that this is a pretty bad tilt, probably the worse of wolf's. i would agree but recently ive been trying to find a better purpose for this this attack than just " if the opponents right above you" recently ive tried chaining attacks to up-tilt such as;
0lag fair> up tilt> sh bair> sh bair (while in the air)> bair or uair while falling. <<<<not sure if they can DI out of this.
or if they DI forward you after the tilt you can use 0 lag fair again. it only usually works from 0-50% also u can replace the first 0lag fair with a dash attack. sry if this seems like a dumb idea

down-tilt - im not gonna lie. i rely on this tilt more than the others. why? spacing and mind games. spacing is obvious, it stops people charging at you in their tracks. sometimes when im using wolfs AAA jab i throw in a d-tilt every now and then. either a jab and d-tilt, or jab jab d-tilt. defiantly adds some variety in your wolf game, and if they trip thats a plus

foward-tilt - one of the most acidental tilts. i agree this tilt is punishable, id say its less punishable than a f-smash. no big use for this tilt. just spacing trying to only get the second hit to hit. also shine > ftilt. or dtilt>ftilt. nothing to creative yet

 

[snadmonkey]

only 1 time i really use utilt, if u land a forward air then immediatly utilt they will combo. I use ftilt to punish rollers usually to keep my smashes fresh.

 

[Azure Rune]

...........

 

[ThaRoy]

I have realized that SHFF Nair is VERY good for spacing and is quite good approach wise.

 

[KUROK]

I'm not an expert Wolfer but I do use Wolfs Nair a lot as an approach, Nair>Shine>Fsmash is a nice combo for me. From a good Nair you can Shine, Ftilt, Fsmash, AAA or your Blaster to make some distance (since you'll prolly hit with the blade) which I feel is pretty good for mindgames. I think someone mentioned not being enough opportunities for Shine but I find myself using it a lot in my game. I dunno how well it works on experts but I've managed to catch some people off guard by Shining them off a ledge. Also it's a nice setup for a knock-out, if you can SH>Shine and manage to hit them in the upper area you can stun them enough to connect with an easy Dsmash which is my main KO move. This wont work with a grounded Shine though since you need the forward momentum from a SH.

This thread has been really helpful to a learning Brawler/Wolfer such as myself, I'm really looking forward to it's progression.

 

[ArcPoint]

To me Nair is near garbage as an approach, after the first hit of the nair none of the other hits do major damage or knockback, meaning you have major hitlag where you can't do anything while they can. Nair can be shieldgrabbed to the extreme (In the air, you know, where you can't do anything?) Or punished by other means (MK's Downsmash for example). Nair is my least used move, I even use Up B more than Nair >_> A bair, or even Fair is a better approach than a Nair =/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I found SHnair increasingly useful. It auto cancels so you can follow up with shine or A,A,A

 

[Turbo Ether]

The main redeeming quality of the Nair is the surprisingly good priority. That, plus fast fall auto cancel makes it a useful emergency counter move to get someone of your face or catch them off guard.

 

[castorpollux]

don't use short hop nair as an approach. Sure sometimes germ used it in his matches, but that was when everybody sucked. People are are better now and will just shield grab the nair

 

[teekay]

Also, I'm going to AzOneTwoStep this weekend. For those of you who don't know about it is a 150+ person tournament with both Melee and Brawl singles and doubles. I'll be entering doubles and singles. Popular people such as Taj, Forward, Ken, Isai, and more will be there, too.

I'll let you know how I do and hopefully I can get some videos up.

Any word on this yet?

I'm going to echo the love for dtilt, by the way. I use it a lot. One thing I don't think has been mentioned yet is that I use this in situations where a lot of people use dsmash, for the purpose of not letting that move get stale. I pretty much have gotten to the point where I almost never use dsmash before the person is in KO range, if I do it will be one time. Very often I find dtilt works instead; it's less damage, but I prefer to play a steady and careful game with Wolf where I built damage slowly and go for an easy kill with a fresh dsmash.

Also going to echo that Nair isn't that great. Has its uses, but early on I was really excited about it for its unusual properties and zero lag, which I thought would give it a lot of combo potential. Was let down in that department. I can hardly believe that people are STILL saying things like, "nair to shine to fsmash!!!!" Geez.

 

[AlAxe]

Nair is a great move. It has great priority and almost no landing lag. Yea, you'll get shield grabbed if you jump at your opponent like an idiot but it if you get an opening it makes a great approach and leads into a AAA combo. I'm tired of people saying that nair- shine-fsmash is a good combo because its not. the fsmash can get shielded almost every time which leads to grab.

Also I never hold back on using my dsmash. If I can get a hit with it I always take it. The knockback doesn't decay too much as long as you're not spamming and getting the opponent off the edge is a good start to getting a KO.

 

[castorpollux]

uhhh nair has good priority? are u sure? I'm pretty sure most aerials outprioritizes the nair