Official Wolf Metagame Discussion

[Koskinator]

Man why the **** we cant get a thread like this in the Link and Fox boards!!!

Simple, the Fox and Link boards aren't as cool as the Wolf boards.

 

[Juggalo]

close range forward B is nice. if it hits, or misses, they can't get an immediate hit off of you. Not much damage, but after doing a bunch of hits strung together its nice to space yourself out and get some breathing room.


____E_W___
E = enemy
W = wolf

Forward B to the left in that situation and the outcome is this (after you land):
(ignore the dots. they're there because you can't do multiple spaces on this forum for some gay unexplained reason)

.........E
_W________

 

[Patinator]

Why can't the Link and Fox boards get this kind of thread? Simple.

Can't let you do that, Skiba D.

...I feel so cool right now.

@ Juggalo: Not a bad idea, actually...

Know what's fun? Making a stage with about a three or four-block space at the bottom, and nailing a person who jumps over the gap to you with a Wolf Flash Spike and killing them. I love that noise.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

The Kirby meta-game discussion is one and the same with t!mMy's "Kirby and the Amazing Guide"...

 

[Koskinator]

The Kirby meta-game discussion is one and the same with t!mMy's "Kirby and the Amazing Guide"...

lol @ random reply

 

[Captain Sa10]

wolf flash is a dangerous move to do when not recovering. even if you time it perfectly, if you spike em down to the stage they can easily tech it and punish you with a smash, and if they don't tech can get u with a standing up attack. so not only do you have to get it in the magic window, but it has to be horizontal knockback. Not to mention that if ur opponent is any good you shouldn't be able to reliably predict his movements that far away, and u'll miss and get punished for it. It seems the risk don't out weight the benefits. While recovering, it can be very good to attack with, especially with scarring and semiscarring to catch people off gaurd.

Im glad you posted this snadmonkey, since this is the exact type of counter reply I was looking for, showing the bad sides as well. And totally agree upon what you said since alot of the things I stated are merely under rare occasions, although you can preform these on less skilled players or if you want to catch them off gaurd. Hopefully I see more post like this around here since learning bad properties of attacks and such help increase the Metagame more then the good properties.

 

[Koskinator]

All I really like using the Wolf Flash for is spiking someone who is edgehogging, feels so good

 

[Negative Zero]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Flash Canceling yet? I don't main Wolf. He's not even my second or third, but how are you guys not realizing the potential of canceling the Wolf Flash? Depending on when you cancel it, you can use it as a forward wavedash, a quick jump forward, or an unexpected way to cross the stage near-instantly. Give it a shot sometime.

 

[Juggalo]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Flash Canceling yet?

If you rapidly tap B after doing Forward B, you'll more reliably get the earliest-cancelled Wolf Flash than any other outcome, which I think will be getting incorporated more in the future.

Should really read all the posts before saying "Why hasn't anyone" huh?

 

[Captain Sa10]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Flash Canceling yet? I don't main Wolf. He's not even my second or third, but how are you guys not realizing the potential of canceling the Wolf Flash? Depending on when you cancel it, you can use it as a forward wavedash, a quick jump forward, or an unexpected way to cross the stage near-instantly. Give it a shot sometime.

Everyone already knows about this and isn't discussed much since the consistency behind it(since it can be canceled in three different spots) is to hard to time perfectly to keep getting the same results.

 

[Negative Zero]

I didn't mean anyone literally. If you are incapable of reading into meanings, I'll be pre-cise.
Why have the potential uses of Flash Canceling been largely ignored in this thread?
There. Is that better?

 

[Koskinator]

Because even though something may have potential, if said thing only had 3 frames of space to cancel it in, its sort of hit or miss. I'll only attempt a flash cancel when I know that if I dont succeed the cancel, I'll still be able to recover. I'll never rely on a Flash Cancel for recovery, theres way too much room for error.

 

[ElPadrino]

Theres way too much room for error.

Don't you mean "there's way too little room for error"?

 

[Koskinator]

Way too much room for error = There are, lets say for arguements sake, 50 frames that Wolf Illusion uses. 3 of those frames are cancelable, leaving 47 frames uncancelable. 47 frames is a lot more than 3, meaning there is more room for error.

 

[ElPadrino]

Way too much room for error = There are, lets say for arguements sake, 50 frames that Wolf Illusion uses. 3 of those frames are cancelable, leaving 47 frames uncancelable. 47 frames is a lot more than 3, meaning there is more room for error.

Lulz, you misplaced terms.

"Room for error" means the the space where errors can be made, you're thinking that it means there's too many possibiliteis that you might miss the cancel., but it's the opposite.

So more simply:

Much room for error = a lot of places where errors can be made
Little room for error = very few places where errors can be made

Hopefully that cleared the confusion

Edit: Just reread this and it's still confusing

Now what I meant was that
Much room for error = You can make a bunch of mistakes and still be able to pull off whatever you wanted to do.
Little room for error = You cannot make many mistakes or whatever you wanted to do won't work.

Sorry for my confusing post, I still don't get it myself...

 

[Negative Zero]

That's true. It's not easy. However, that doesn't make it less useful, it just makes it more difficult. Waveshining took practice in Melee, but it was used, and it was used often. Multishining took great precision, and Samus' SWD gave you, IIRC, two frames. Yet many people could do all three of these, consistently.

I'm not trying to argue that Flash Canceling is the most important thing in the world, or that it's versatile, or that it's vital to Wolf's play. I just think that it has quite a bit of potential that isn't being utilized.

Anyway, it's not like you are hitting B at a random frame during the attack. I'm sure with practice, a good Wolf player would be able to cancel the Wolf Flash consistently and effectively. If you think it's impractical, you don't know just how fanatic Smashers can get.

 

[Captain Sa10]

That's true. It's not easy. However, that doesn't make it less useful, it just makes it more difficult. Waveshining took practice in Melee, but it was used, and it was used often. Multishining took great precision, and Samus' SWD gave you, IIRC, two frames. Yet many people could do all three of these, consistently.

I'm not trying to argue that Flash Canceling is the most important thing in the world, or that it's versatile, or that it's vital to Wolf's play. I just think that it has quite a bit of potential that isn't being utilized.

Anyway, it's not like you are hitting B at a random frame during the attack. I'm sure with practice, a good Wolf player would be able to cancel the Wolf Flash consistently and effectively. If you think it's impractical, you don't know just how fanatic Smashers can get.

OF course you can work hard at it, but as i've stated and many others before me, this is just not that useful. Potential yes, same with multishining but at this moment and time they have no real uses. And you really can't compare Waveshining to any of the terms you used above since those were WAY out of it's league in difficulty, and very few people actually used Samus's SWD. Other then the fact that you can recover with it, and have good distance from that(which after some study your still vulnerable while your gliding) canceling the wolf flash is not worht it. and because the timing is off so, and can be canceled in three places, your results can still vary if you slip up and cancel in the wrong amount of time which is wya to small.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Pwned

discuss this

Well that has to suck for that guy, but I guess he deservec it. Way to go SamuraiPanda for busting yet another spammer. ANyway, back on topic:

How about Boost smashing with wolf? What are some of you all's thoughts on boost smashing with wolf.

 

[Yoshara]

In my opinion Wolf is one of the hardest to get used to for Boost Smash timing, meanwhile Link (TP) and Snake are rediculously easy to get the timing down.

 

[Shake~]

I can't do it consistently, so I haven't used it in a match where I truly wanted to win. The timing is difficult, but I'm sure with enough practice with it you could do it almost always. Boost Smashing could surprise the opponent as long as you're not predictable about it. It'll be a good trick in Wolf's arsenal in my opinion.

 

[Negative Zero]

I haven't gotten it to work yet, but I want to. Wolf has a great up smash, so I really want to learn it.

 

[Yoshara]

It took me a while to get it down, but now I can use it 95% of the time.
The way I practiced was with Link to get the finger motions down, and then studying at what point of the dash attack you are supposed to use the up smash.


P.S. I also changed my Z button to attack instead of grab.

 

[AlAxe]

I don't think boost smashing with wolf is really that useful. I'm not even sure if you get more distance than if you just cancel your dash into usmash. Also Wolf's usmash isn't his greatest attack. I just don't see boost smashing being all that useful for wolf.

 

[Shake~]

I don't think boost smashing with wolf is really that useful. I'm not even sure if you get more distance than if you just cancel your dash into usmash. Also Wolf's usmash isn't his greatest attack. I just don't see boost smashing being all that useful for wolf.

Usmash does the most damage, and he definitely gets a huge boost, more then just running then hitting up-smash.

 

[ArcPoint]

His Usmash has...a great horizontal hitbox, it also does well against shield grabbers, if they shield grab, they shield the first hit and get nailed by the second hit.

It's a great move in my opinion, there really isn't too much lag after it, not much startup lag, great hitbox and great damage.

 

[castorpollux]

The boost smash goes under pit's arrows (assuming he doesnt curve it downwards), so I also assume it goes under falco's SHDL. Also if you like to do the BAIR -> FSmash combo, and the BAIR is hitting the guy too far to do the F-Smash, then u can do the boost smash instead. Although it might not be a combo, people will not be expecting it at first, and if they start to anticipate it and shield immediately after the BAIR, then u can run up to them and SHAD into a grab and down throw -> boostsmash. If they start anticipating this... then just SHAD into a grab again.

 

[castorpollux]

Hmmmm how does dashdancing into boostsmash sound?

 

[Kashakunaki]

Hmm. This thread still moving at the pace of a turtle and still failing to produce anything productive?

*reads last few posts*

Looks like it.

 

[castorpollux]

Hmm. This thread still moving at the pace of a turtle and still failing to produce anything productive?

*reads last few posts*

Looks like it.

^ So says the cocky wolf player who likes to act as if he knows more than everyone else. Care to contribute to this metagame thread? Or are you gonna keep bashing people and leeching off of other people's "productive" discoveries?

 

[Captain Sa10]

Hmmmm how does dashdancing into boostsmash sound?

Dashdancing into a Boost smash is an excellent idea when it comes to mixing up your game play, allowing for your game to be more diverse and less predictable. The Boost smash in general with wolf's Up smash is not bad at all, it's just the timing behind it that still gets me. if anything, your recent post have been showing me some really good aspects behind the boost smash'ed Up smash.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I love the DAC/Boost Smash. The timing is really really strict, and I still haven't mastered it over the course of a few weeks now.

I think a Wolf player that could DAC/Boost Smash 100% of the time would be extremely dangerous. It's an excellent follow up move with it's distance, speed, damage, horizontal and vertical hit box, and it launches vertically, allowing you to follow up.

 

[Captain Sa10]

This post is about the timing in the boost smash:

Wolf makes a distinct sound when everytime he does a dash attack. Well, while I was practicing a few minutes ago, I noticed that during the post smash, he still retains that sound, which I believe has to deal with the timing. Its between like 14 frames or a little bit more for his boost smash to activate, and after testing this sound thing, I've pretty much gotten down the timing in a few minutes. try methods like counting or something if you want to learn get the timing down. Eventually, it'll become second nature with the timing, which it started doing with me after only a few minutes.

 

[DarkWarCloud]

I love the DAC/Boost Smash. The timing is really really strict, and I still haven't mastered it over the course of a few weeks now.

I think a Wolf player that could DAC/Boost Smash 100% of the time would be extremely dangerous. It's an excellent follow up move with it's distance, speed, damage, horizontal and vertical hit box, and it launches vertically, allowing you to follow up.

its easy to master once you remember one thing. do it as quick as possibly. don't do it with fluidity, just smash the buttons to do it and it becomes much easier. i find it easier to boost smash with link with a fluid button press, though.

 

[Captain Sa10]

its easy to master once you remember one thing. do it as quick as possibly. don't do it with fluidity, just smash the buttons to do it and it becomes much easier. i find it easier to boost smash with link with a fluid button press, though.

You dont even have to smash the button's once you understand the timing behind it. Seriously, it's way easier to pull-off then it looks

 

[DarkWarCloud]

uh, i know. i like to smash the buttons to get a faster effect, though. it just works better for me.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Well thats good that it works for, and that's all that really counts.

Now towards something new: Should we, or shouldn't we use the Infinite Jumps with wolf's Aerials?? Explain your reason why or why not.

 

[DarkWarCloud]

we shouldn't because wolf only suffers minor lag from one of his aerials, the others have little to no lag if used correctly.
his dair suffers some lag, but it is best used when off of the ledge.

 

[castorpollux]

I also do not believe the infinite jumps will be effective. Doesn't it also force wolf to do an aerial at an exact moment? If you keep doing that aerial at a certain height over and over again, wouldn't that become predictable?

However, i wouldn't give up on it yet. It might have some use

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Early on in thread comment: I want to add that I actually got a Wolf to >B over the edge (>.<). He used it several times in a match, but was quite good with sweet-spotting. I guess it is possible to use it, but it gets too predictable and not as effective as one would like.

Random: It looks like the SSBB Fox boards has a thread like this, too.

On topic: From what I see, it is more than necessary for Wolf's approaching. It should be interesting to see it with an all out b-air approach/kill attempts, though.

 

[Kashakunaki]

^ So says the cocky wolf player who likes to act as if he knows more than everyone else. Care to contribute to this metagame thread? Or are you gonna keep bashing people and leeching off of other people's "productive" discoveries?

I don't care to contribute what knowledge I may have that is of use to a thread I don't believe in. To me this thread is just as pointless as all the other "metagame" clone threads out there.

Don't get me wrong, I hope something productive comes of it. Until then, I'm going to play devil's advocate, and when and if something does come of it, I will apologize.

I'm a cynical ***, but I'm not too full of myself to acknowledge others and admit when I'm wrong.

EDIT: Also, I already contributed a large part to the community over all, being the first one to point out and theorize a Wall of Pain-esque style with Wolf's bair.

Truth be told I didn't know if it would be successful or not, and I was prepared for that, but I see people using the term Wolf Wall or Wall of Wolf and see it in people's gameplay. I mean, it's an obvious strategy. How couldn't you above that range and low lag? Just saying I'm not entirely a leech.