Official Wolf Metagame Discussion

[ArcPoint]

Haha, go Marth. xD . Anyway, That's an interesting thing Snad, although how's it going to be used for a tech chase? Wolf already has a relatively good tech chase, if they roll away from you, you Boost Smash. If they roll towards you, Fsmash, if they get up, Fsmash. Although, I do see a lot of interesting things that can be done with the Flash Cancel.

And Snad, Wolf is already a complex character, you can't deny that Wolf has a steep learning curve if you want to win with him.

 

[chronoize]

the thing is it just seems that flash cancel is so random, meaning (if there is a timing) the chances of pulling it off 100% of the time is slim. and the punishment afterwords could be devastating. though i wanna see the flash canceling be a technique that changes the metagame of wolf.

ill put some effort the flash cancel metagame.

uhh term question what do yall mean by tech chase?

 

[snadmonkey]

Basically above 50% landing alot of moves knock ur opponent to far away for you to quickly follow up. Wolfs ground speed is kinda slow and alot of time one move means just 1 hit before they land and set up defences again. A good possible use is if u are high in the air say a bair from a double jump, then u do the shortets illusion cancel to pursue him. Or landing a downsmash and pursueing with the longest wolf illusion cancel.

A tech cancel is pursueing a move after being knocked away. At higher precents its hard to really apply the pressure after landing a blow other then trying to land a 4% laser.

 

[chronoize]

after practicing the illusion cancel. heres what i noticed

after pressing side b, i noticed it was easier to do illusion cancel by pressing forward+down position

for example, im looking to the right and i press side+b i shift the analog stick in the 5'o clock position and keep mashing the b button.

though this wont get u illusion cancel 100%. it improved mine probably 30-40%. i think itll get us one step closer to using illusion cancel as an effective strategy.

can i get a confirmation if this helps gauge the illusion time cancel?


======edit=====
instead of holding diagonal (down forward) you can just hold down
so sideb> hold down> press b at the right timing

 

[Van Jones]

Let me give this a try.

 

[teekay]

Snad, what you've mentioned is one of the uses I've been saving up for using the cancel with. I have a LOT of ideas for ways it might potentially be used and this is one of the best. Right now I can successfully perform it about 50% of the time, not mashing, just trying to do the timing. I practice a bit every night. When I finally get it down consistently I will be doing a ****load of experimentation with it.

 

[chronoize]

yea ive been kinda getting the hang of the timing. mashing less too
so is that a confirmation that its better to illusion cancel when pressing forward-down(diagonal) b afterward?

 

[Van Jones]

So, your advice worked. I am able to cancel about 80% of the time. Thanks for the tip.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I found some uses for the Illusion Cancel. I like it as a recovery move. You can use it to grab the ledge, when the opponent expects you to go right back at the stage. This can prevent some gimping against certain characters (Marios cape...).

I really like it but I still have to work on it..

 

[WULFN]

after practicing the illusion cancel. heres what i noticed

after pressing side b, i noticed it was easier to do illusion cancel by pressing forward+down position

for example, im looking to the right and i press side+b i shift the analog stick in the 5'o clock position and keep mashing the b button.

though this wont get u illusion cancel 100%. it improved mine probably 30-40%. i think itll get us one step closer to using illusion cancel as an effective strategy.

can i get a confirmation if this helps gauge the illusion time cancel?


======edit=====
instead of holding diagonal (down forward) you can just hold down
so sideb> hold down> press b at the right timing

Huh, interesting. i will have to find out later after I get off work. I try to do it but get like a 1% success rate. I can do the DACUS almost everytime, and iff I can get this down, that would be awesome.

PS- If anyone needs help with the DACUS let me know

 

[Van Jones]

Alright, I have the illusion cancel down.

I'm still having trouble doing the DACUS.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Alright snad, I read your opening post so I figure I would adresses it:

Illusion canceling has always been something i've practiced as a wolf player and have yet to trully understand the timing for it. I'll work hard at trying to learn an easy way of executing the Cancel quickly in order to produce that "chasing" pace. If anything, I've always thought of the cancel to be effective in someway, but the timing as I've said before is very hindering. I'll report back to you in PM's and a few other players that I know will address this quite well.

Captain Sa10

 

[xcchmpn11]

thebadnewsbear- I found that if I set "R" to attack I was able to pull DACUS off much more effectively.

 

[Van Jones]

Yeah, I actually decided to do that last night. Much easier IMO.

 

[Turbo Ether]

DACUS timing is easy with the Wiimote+Chuck also.

 

[Loup17]

err, sorry for the noobish question, what is DACUS?

 

[JFizzle]

Dash-Attack-Canceled Up Smash

 

[Turbo Ether]

We need frame data badly. Anyone able to compile something like this?

 

[TKD]

Shorthop into bair as spacing or shorthop into airdodge, into jabs/ftilt works. It's best to laser every time you know it's safe to do so....fsmash is nice, but easily countered so it should be performed very unpredictably or after a bair as follow-up.

Fair KOs light characters at around 120%. While facing the edge, dsmash at 100%+.

Oh and if you're in a stale move crisis, you can resort to uptilt for the KO.

Wolf is a great character. His recovery really ruins the magic though. Wolf+great recovery would have been great. It would only have left him weak against like...D3 and Falco or something like that.

Link has the same problem. It's sad. Who let this happen? Rawrrghh

 

[Azure Rune]

..........

 

[Paladinight]

Hey I THINK I've got it I was practicing Illusion canceling with wolf and in training mode in 1/4 speed you'll see that wolf swings his arms back before he does wolf flash, well i think the timing for the chasing one is when he starts to swing I'm not certain but this is how I time mine from and I can do this more often now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ I'll try it...

 

[chronoize]

anyone notice when you hit someone with the reflector they never go up. it always di down and away from wolf. makes me think. could this be a ledge guard tactic?

by hanging off the ledge after knocking someone off the stage( but yet to have kill them) di off the stage (i prefer di downward.) jump shine and repeat. it has everything u want in a ledge guard. reflector, more invincibility frames, and it di the opponent away and down from wolf. i just thought of this so im not sure if it works, haven't tried it on anyone yet.

 

[Van Jones]

Hmmm....interesting. I think I may have done this once or twice before, but I can't remember how it turned out. I'll test it out a little tomorrow.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There's a video thread by somebody named spike. He posted a combo video there and he also uses Shine as a spike - it sends the enemy downwards.

 

[Stealth309]

I hear Wolf's metagame is just Blaster and F-smash spamming, which I don't entirely believe. Even though there a LOT of Wolf spammers out there who have no skill with Wolf, Wolf, as a character, has an excellent move set and great potential overall. I use the blaster as an approach to set up for a d-throw and then for a combo or to make the opponent eat some more blaster, but I don't spam(you know, that's just an example of how I believe the blaster SHOULD be used instead of spammed, know what I mean?). So from what I hear about Wolf's metagame, it goes like this, blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash fsmash blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash bair, and that's it. But I'm sure there are also Wolves who can play with skill and not spam the **** out of only two moves when Wolf has such a great moveset. Over time, I believe people will understand. But right now, many people don't, and that's sad. I'm not pointing this at anyone in particular, I'm just saying...

 

[Van Jones]

I hear Wolf's metagame is just Blaster and F-smash spamming, which I don't entirely believe. Even though there a LOT of Wolf spammers out there who have no skill with Wolf, Wolf, as a character, has an excellent move set and great potential overall. I use the blaster as an approach to set up for a d-throw and then for a combo or to make the opponent eat some more blaster, but I don't spam(you know, that's just an example of how I believe the blaster SHOULD be used instead of spammed, know what I mean?). So from what I hear about Wolf's metagame, it goes like this, blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash fsmash blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash bair, and that's it. But I'm sure there are also Wolves who can play with skill and not spam the **** out of only two moves when Wolf has such a great moveset. Over time, I believe people will understand. But right now, many people don't, and that's sad. I'm not pointing this at anyone in particular, I'm just saying...

Not even close.

This is how you play Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8WnYQxI8pg

 

[Patinator]

anyone notice when you hit someone with the reflector they never go up. it always di down and away from wolf. makes me think. could this be a ledge guard tactic?

by hanging off the ledge after knocking someone off the stage( but yet to have kill them) di off the stage (i prefer di downward.) jump shine and repeat. it has everything u want in a ledge guard. reflector, more invincibility frames, and it di the opponent away and down from wolf. i just thought of this so im not sure if it works, haven't tried it on anyone yet.

The Reflector doesn't have enough knockback to be an effecient edge-guard. I can hardly use Fox's right. Though it is a good Up Special interrupter...

I hear Wolf's metagame is just Blaster and F-smash spamming, which I don't entirely believe. Even though there a LOT of Wolf spammers out there who have no skill with Wolf, Wolf, as a character, has an excellent move set and great potential overall. I use the blaster as an approach to set up for a d-throw and then for a combo or to make the opponent eat some more blaster, but I don't spam(you know, that's just an example of how I believe the blaster SHOULD be used instead of spammed, know what I mean?). So from what I hear about Wolf's metagame, it goes like this, blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash fsmash blaster blaster blaster blaster fsmash fsmash bair, and that's it. But I'm sure there are also Wolves who can play with skill and not spam the **** out of only two moves when Wolf has such a great moveset. Over time, I believe people will understand. But right now, many people don't, and that's sad. I'm not pointing this at anyone in particular, I'm just saying...

Trust me, we've had our fair share of noobs. Let me quote DuceBlade, long-time enemy of the Wolf support club during Character Speculation:

(In thread "F-Air Can Spike"): why would anyone care about that, when wolfs are too busy spamming laser and fsmash

All because his furry desires weren't answered. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

 

[Ishiey]

Not even close.

This is how you play Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8WnYQxI8pg

I never understood why Germ uses upB the way falco's and fox's use sideB from the ledge. I mean, its unexpected, but... it just seems like such a bad idea, lets face it, upB is not an offensive move AT ALL.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why not? It can pressure enemies shields...

 

[Stealth309]

Not even close.

This is how you play Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8WnYQxI8pg

Yeah, Germ's a beast with Wolf. But most people just spam the blaster and f-smash with no strategy or plan of setup whatsoever.

 

[Stealth309]

The Reflector doesn't have enough knockback to be an effecient edge-guard. I can hardly use Fox's right. Though it is a good Up Special interrupter...

What it does is stun the opponent for a shirt period of time, allowing you to kame ti back to the ledge first, therefore edgeguarding him.

 

[Patinator]

I see. Still doesn't sound that good, but then again, I'm just that guy with no Wolf avatar.

 

[Ishiey]

But upB can be dodged so easily, DI'd out of so easily, interrupted in the middle by something quick or with invincibility frames (ex. luigi's nair, marth's upB), I mean it does have shield pressure, and its unexpected, but the risks don't seem to be worth it. I'd rather just telestep if they were that far away, or hop over the ledge with reflector. And shieldgrabs.

It seems to work well enough for Germ though, I just have issues understanding why. Anyone who thinks they might know why it works well, please feel free to bring up some good points.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

I love germ's wolf, it's where I learn how to really play wolf well, but there is something in the play style that makes me uneasy, I use shine a kit, and he doesn't maybe that it, but hey what works. I still don't get how he gets such a huge movement with his b-ar fast fall it looks like it moves a lot in mid-air to me.

 

[Patinator]

I think I understand what you guys are talking about when you speak about using the Fire Wolf offensively... Maybe. If by all this, you mean essentially ledge-hopping a Fire Wolf, then I do. As told by SmashWiki, it's an effective "Guard Break" or whatever.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, ledgehopping a firewolf (I hate that name... its not fire, its WIND). And I heard smashwiki is a terrible place to get information, but I never bothered checking to find out if it was true. Aaaaanyways, it seems to be effective as a 'guard break' if they mean shield pressure or whatever, but I don't really understand why. I'm one of those people who doesn't like accepting things without lots of reason or proof (and by proof I mean something besides Germ's vids, he is not restrained by the bounds of logic).

 

[Patinator]

Yeah, ledgehopping a firewolf (I hate that name... its not fire, its WIND). And I heard smashwiki is a terrible place to get information, but I never bothered checking to find out if it was true. Aaaaanyways, it seems to be effective as a 'guard break' if they mean shield pressure or whatever, but I don't really understand why. I'm one of those people who doesn't like accepting things without lots of reason or proof (and by proof I mean something besides Germ's vids, he is not restrained by the bounds of logic).

Guard break = breaking an edge-guard. Look it up.

So Germ's the new G-Reg?

 

[Ishiey]

Looking up requires effort. Not something I'm too good with >___> my bad though.

And I never got too into melee (because I'm an idiot and gave away a GC that I won at a six flags to my friend who never gave it back cause he sucks donkeysack, so I was just a casual melee player), I've heard of G-reg before, but thats about it ._. Either way though, I'll assume it has to do with the part about being free from logic, so... that just might be true. Germ honestly seems to throw stuff out there instinctively, and it just works. Sort of supports the fact that Wolf can be unpredictable, with his way of switching playstyles so swiftly, and the best way to play with him might just be to adapt to whatever situation you're faced with at the moment and flip-flop playstyles when you have control to confuse people.

And if I'm wrong, I just sounded like a complete idiot. AWESOME

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I picked up Wolf recently, which is probably why most of you haven't seen me, but my main is Marth, and I play Wolf like my Marth, tilts, lots of aerials, and trying not to use fsmash to save it for kills. I love Wolf's Bair.