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Official "Who is going to return?" topic

T-major

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,167
Location
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
I'm aware of the storyline of Zelda. And I'm all for keeping Ganon in... I never said I wanted to see him go. I love Ganon, he's one of my mains. But adding 10 to 15 characters to the bulk number to me seems a bit excessive. As long as it all remains balanced I'm ok with it, and I'm all for updates on old characters. Ganondorf coming back would be fine, but if Pichu was in this game I would be mad because they wasted time remaking Pichu when they could have been adding a new character. I feel this way about a lot of the clones, with the exception of Ganon and Falco, and even about some of the independent characters like Mewtwo and Game and Watch.


I didn't think you wanted him to go. I was just trying to clear up that it would be stupid of Sakurai to remove such an important and popoular character, regardless of the total number of caracters. and 30 to 40+ characters is a resonable amount of characters. the same number of character as Melee would mean many of the important, or unique characters would need to be removed. which would throw a lot of things out of balence. and with new character additions, having the same amount of characters as last time just won't work. don't worry. every thing will even out. Ganondorf isn't going anywhere (except to 'moveset depot"), and all of the returnig clones will get reworked. but only a few clones will be returning, and the ones that don't will most likely be replaced (WW link > Y. Link).

EDIT: {to Lucas}

first off, don't double post. second. you deserve to be flamed. Ness might not be the best character, but just because of that you say we should remove him? Mario wasn't the best character, should they remove him? no, that would just be stupid.
 

Lucas The Lefty

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
98
i already addressed that, they can't remove mario even if he was the worst because he's the number 1 nintendo icon they have. idk if they're not going to have a lot of charicters in brawl or they're just trying to keep whoevers in it a secret but if its only going to be a few charicters then they should keep the better ones but if they're going to have a huge ammount it won't matter so much who they drop.
 

icymatt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,154
I'm thinking they aren't going to 'not have alot of characters' or are 'keeping them secret'. I'm thinking they just aren't done the game yet.
 

toasty

Smash Hero
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Nov 3, 2006
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6,110
Location
Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! <
don't try to diss me on my spelling when you don't have anything else worthwile to say
and here I was trying to be nice about it. jeez. I didn't jump on every word you said calling you a @#%$ing ****** or anything like that. It's pointless to get into arguments based on opinions, so I figured I'd give you a tip to sound like less of a jack@$$. Speaking of opinions, you're asking people to respect yours and yet you don't grant them the same privilege. Just give it a rest...Please_Stop_Talking. Of course you're entitled to voice what you think, it's a forum afterall; I'm just voicing my opinion on how much your words and attitude hurt my face.
Thanks.
 

GenG

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
1,473
Location
Spain
I'm actually pretty confident that we wont be seeing Gannondorf in Brawl.
Please, could you care to elaborate your point? I don't think they'll be removing the main antagonist of one of their best franchises.
 

Ipslne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
363
Location
East Lansing, MI
I would appreciate everything more if they would just take the clones and give them their own moves sets. I understand the ice climbers wont be returning? I believe there was a list floating around with definite removals, including the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, and Young Link (to be replaced by Wind Waker Link).

There were a couple more too... but I don't recall. I'd have to go look... I just don't remember where exactly this list was.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,975
Switch FC
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I would appreciate everything more if they would just take the clones and give them their own moves sets. I understand the ice climbers wont be returning? I believe there was a list floating around with definite removals, including the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, and Young Link (to be replaced by Wind Waker Link).

There were a couple more too... but I don't recall. I'd have to go look... I just don't remember where exactly this list was.
Yeah, but that has been proven false already. All the official information you find on this place, there's no way we would've missed something like that.

And it's no way that Ganondorf will be cutted. And for what reason he would?
Because he's a C.Falcon clone in Melee? He was supposed to have his own moveset anyway. With this new game that would be the perfect place to still give him his planned moveset.

Also, who else should return in Ganon's place? He's one of the 3 Triforce wielders, and I don't think it would be logical that they'd remove him now that they had all the Triforce wielders in Melee. =/ And Ganon is pretty much guranteed to appear in Twilight Princess to... If he wouldn't, yeah I would accept that he wouldn't be in Brawl...
 

W4veMantis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
242
Location
Tempe, AZ
Too true. I have to agree with Diddy Kong. Ganon is a major character in the Zelda series.
Besides Ganondorf would be crazy sic nasty with his own move set. It would be a shame to take him out.
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
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Location
Chicago area
In my opinion they might replace marth and roy with actual fire emblem characters, not ones that where never in a game.
 

Rhyme

Smash Lord
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Feb 14, 2006
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A stone's throw from insanity
If they were okay with Japan-only characters in Melee, why would tha change in Brawl?

And yes, I would love to see Ganondorf with a new moveset, bring it on.
That wouldn't change in brawl because Sakurai said it wouldn't. Remember?...When he said "since smash brothers is popular around the world, not only in Japan, we will do our best to include characters popular in countries other than Japan".

Why does that apply to Ganondorf? He is popular here and in Japan, it is Ness that should be shaking, but even he should be safe, less Sakurai be a hypocrite. Ganondorf may use his sword from melee, but I would personally like to see the twin katanas or whatever they are called. Although that may inhibbit his ability to use an charge-energy style B attack. Would anyone complain if he just randomly pulled out weapons like Peach or G&W? Then he could use different weapons for different attacks.
 

Caleb Wolfbrand

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
3,443
Location
Ionia (Charleston, SC)
Actually Dragonboy if you look closely, Mario's fair spikes Kirby down and hits Pikachu upward. So it's like a combination of Doc and Mario's fairs, works sorta like the two parts of DK's fair.
 

Rhyme

Smash Lord
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Feb 14, 2006
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A stone's throw from insanity
Plus we've been going over the trailer for days...
Yea about that, I don't have the fastest internet so I can't watch in high deffinition often enough to know what they are doing. Has anyone created a second by second analysis for the NWT like they did for the E3T?

That's awesome that depending on where the enemy is positioned and when, mario either does a weak Zelda spike or the finishing move of Dr Mario.

Its a new SSBB trailer btw,you guys should check it out maybe?
Thats almost insulting, to think that someone believes we haven't seen a video that's been out for 4 days now. I'm somewhat hurt.:laugh:
 

Ipslne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
363
Location
East Lansing, MI
It seems too many people are jumping to conclusions based on the trailers, without even considering that even the Melee trailers were rather ambiguous. Nintendo wouldn't dissapoint anyone in the fanbase by removing characters. I'm sure they're just bent on expansion, not replacement.
 

Konuk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
341
Location
Washington DC
Hmmm.....i think they will give all the clones there own move set except for Dr.Mario instead of him they should do Baby Bowser aka dark mario. another character from all the games like ffrom star fox krsytal, from zelda they should do wind waker link or tetra, from earth bound they should put a badguy for them, from kirby even though they have meta knight king dedede, Samus... ridley and Dark Samus , FireEmblem...Ephraim and Erika or Ike and Soen, they defintley should have sonic and knuckles XD, pokemon...well i could careless, iceclimbers...i could care less.....and thats it
 

Yellow Mage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
369
We all have to remember that not even the originals are safe unless they get confirmed one way or another.

(Captain Falcon)

I agree with shinehex, considering he said what I've been saying all along, except he used a comparison with Fox.
 

thebasman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
119
Location
Chicago, IL (Hyde Park)
I would call the originals safe, just because they were the first batch for a reason. They were the characters that Nintendo thought were the most popular and best suited for the game. I don't see how it could have changed so drastically, to the point where they are eliminating people from the original twelve.
 

dude225

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
172
Location
Palmdale
i just hope that they keep everyone from melee and add in the new characters... but i wouldnt care if they got rid of roy, yoshi, dk, pichu, or G & W (i dont think they are going to get rid of yoshi or dk though, because they have to much history with mario)

oh and i like the idea of erika and ephraim (the twins from fire emblem) i would totally play as erika!
 

MiraiGen

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
710
I would call the originals safe, just because they were the first batch for a reason. They were the characters that Nintendo thought were the most popular and best suited for the game. I don't see how it could have changed so drastically, to the point where they are eliminating people from the original twelve.
Agreed.

But this has been battered around here for a long time.
 

Rhyme

Smash Lord
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A stone's throw from insanity
So these are the most talked about characters that I see in melee who everyone is thinking about kicking out...Dr. Mario, Falcon, Falco, Ness, Shiek, Pichu, Jiggs, G&W, Roy. Is that a fair list? Let me know if I forgot any.

Dr. Mario was put into melee as a last minute character, who shares basically all but two moves in common with his 'origional', mario. Given that he does not have that much importance to Nintendo in comparison, plus the fact that we see his Fair in Mario in the trailer, I say with confidence that the doctor is not in the house anymore.

Aah...one of my favorites. He had power and speed, but had low tier recovery. Due to his popularity as a character, he is a touchy subject. It has been said before that the 'Blue Falcon' in F Zero was given a driver name to make it more realistic. Back when Smash 64 was made he was a popular character. However, since then we have not seen him appear at all as far as I remember. If we go by popularity to determine cuts, than while not popular in a respective game, he is one of the most popular melee characters and therefore deserves to stay. Plus he made it into both games so far.

Falco is another very good fighter in melee, and possibly the most widely played and popular clone character. He has always taken a backseat as Fox's partner and NPC. Even still, whoever uses the argument that no one would have thought about Falco until he was in melee, has lied to us all. I know people who were looking foward to possibly playing as him in melee, and I know people who wished that they could play Starfox as Falco instead of Fox. The idea that he should be taken out because you can't play as him is ignorant, because he was popular before melee and desired for brawl by several old fans and a host of new ones. Falco for brawl.

I have addressed Ness before but in the interest of grouping everything together, I will defend his case again. Sakurai said that he would do his best to include characters popular in other countries, not just in Japan. Well hardly anyone here would consider Lucas because we have become accustomed to having Ness as our favorite little psychic boy. Yes I realize I contradicted my argument for Falco, but please keep in mind that many people in Japan may like Fox and Falco same as here in the US. Seeing as how Lucas has hardly been a part of the Earthbound games here in the US, he probably isn't that popular here. As long as people still like Ness in Japan, there is no reason to anger american fans. I think he will stay, but personally I couldn't care less, since I hear that Lucas would basically be the same fighter. Which brings up another point...change the character to give him the same exact moveset??? Not a smart or productive move, especially with all the time Nintendo is going to have to spend on animating the new character.

Who would have wanted to play Shiek if she wasn't in melee? She had a small part in one of the many Zelda games, so if she is not in TP then she should leave the scene. Plus the fact that they gave ZSS all three tilts that Shiek had in melee; translating the logic of Mario/Dr. Mario onto Shiek/ZSS would suggest that Shiek is gone as well. ZSS would be a more popular, was playable at one time, upgrade of Shiek anyway. All the speed, comboability and mobility, with added range. My feeling is that Shiek is gone.

Pichu??? He evolves into Pikachu so therefore has to be weaker by Pokemon standards(and Pika isn't the greatest pokemon to start with and btw this statement has nothing to do with the melee pikachu). He hurts himself when he uses electricity, and the range on all of his physical attacks is pathetic. In pokemon he is a weak little mouse with hardly any importance to the series, plus he is a clone. I think we can say goodbye to Pichu.

Yes, it is true that Jiggs also has little importance to Pokemon. It does differ from Pichu, however, due to its much more frequent apperance in the show(although the new series of Pokemon I don't think it appears at all?) Some Pokemon fan help me with that one. Anyway jiggs is almost as much of a symbol of Pokemon as Pikachu is, it is a very popular character, and it was in both Smash 64 and Melee. Jiggs is a safe bet for Brawl.

G&W is part of the foundation of Nintendo. He is also a good retro character which Sakurai likes. Plus, he borrows a vast majority of his moves from his respective games. He did also have many games to draw from. He was one of the most unique characters and fighters in melee, so why not put him in brawl. He will look funny in the more realistic, darker setting of brawl and I personally couldn't care less if he was in the game, but he in no manner deserves to be cut. Say yes to G&W.

Roy was put into the game as both a clone and an advertisement for the Japanese game. He is not hugely important and borrowed all of his moves from Marth. Due to his lack of origionality, popularity, and importance, plus all the time they would have to spend remaking him when there are plenty of much more popular FE characters that would take just as much time, I think we can say goodbye to Roy.

In total, I got rid of 4 characters: Dr. Mario, Shiek, Pichu, and Roy. Four is a good reflection of what Sakirai meant when he said "some characters will not return, deffinately" Either way I provided a list and a reason for every character, so now there is a standard for argument when we discuss why a character should/shouldn't go.
 

MewtwoMaster2002

ミュウツーマスター2002
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Originally posted by Rhyme
Pichu??? He evolves into Pikachu so therefore has to be weaker by Pokemon standards(and Pika isn't the greatest pokemon to start with and btw this statement has nothing to do with the melee pikachu). He hurts himself when he uses electricity, and the range on all of his physical attacks is pathetic. In pokemon he is a weak little mouse with hardly any importance to the series, plus he is a clone. I think we can say goodbye to Pichu.
So he should be kicked out just because he was a weak version of Pichu? That's not a very good excuse.

Pichu did have some small importance in a few shorts and specials. For example, the Pichu brothers were some of the main characters in some episodes of Pokemon Chronicles. They were featured in some shorts before Plusle and Minun came along.

He is not totally weak. He is faster than Pikachu, and his up smash is better than Pikachu's IMO. Plus, learning how to use a character that hurts himself shows how good a player is. It's also fun to beat a really good character using Pichu.

Being a clone is not a good excuse to be cut out either. All clones have potential to be different. I had a post long ago that gives an example of how different Pichu could be. He could just use moves he learns by breeding in game. For example, he could have the attack Present. He would toss a Present which would either explode on impact on enemies or heal allies. Another good attack is Rest. Instead of doing the same thing as Jigglypuff, he will sleep until he fully recovers or is hit. He could also keep a few moves, but with altered effects. An example is his Thunderbolt. If it damages himself, it should also paralyze the enemy for a few seconds. Finally, he could have the move Volt Tackle while Pikachu does not.

He has some importance in the series. He was one of the first baby Pokemon to be introduced. He symbolizes baby Pokemon and Johto in SSBM. There's no other baby Pokemon that could be a better representative than Pichu.
 

thebasman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
119
Location
Chicago, IL (Hyde Park)
How interested do you think Nintendo is in representing Johto, which has not been revisited since Crystal version? Pichu was a choice that made sense when Melee came out, but it just doesn't work anymore.
 
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