ThoraxeRMG
Smash Ace
I would say, Ness!
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Official "Who is going to return?" topic
- Thread starter McFox
- Start date
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
with lucas in, ness doesnt have much of a chance, but u never know, they could be adding new earthbound characters.
ThoraxeRMG
Smash Ace
...........................
*Facepalm*
This **** is not gonna end at all....
*Facepalm*
This **** is not gonna end at all....
I'm just going to give my opinion on returning characters with reasons; I'm sure lots of these points have been brought up before, though. Bare in mind I am assuming that there will be no clones this time around, partially because there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing to that, and partially because I really hope there aren't.
Luigi In my opinion: likely.
Like pretty much everyone else, I'm more or less certain he'll be back. He's a big enough character for it to be silly to think otherwise, especially as he's often playable in Mario games, and other, usually non-playable Mario characters are playable in Brawl (e.g., Peach, Bowser).
Unlike some other people, I don't think he is quite unique enough to come back without some changes made to de-clone him. Although a lot of his moves looked different to Mario's, a lot of the time their effect was near identical. I would like it if at least some of these were changed to make him a little more unique. However, I think he may be the only character who it makes sense to have a few clone-ish attributes, so maybe some of his old similarities with Mario could stay the same. I believe that Luigi's Fireball is an example of a move that could remain unchanged and still make some kind of sense. I do think that Super Jump Punch should be replaced, however, as it just wasn't as good as Mario's and didn't make that much sense in the first place, anyway. I'm undecided about Green Missile, as although it was nice for one of Luigi's special attacks to be completely unique, it was quite a strange idea for a move, and as far as I know wasn't inspired by any game in the series. Perhaps this could be replaced by one of Luigi's elemental vacuum attacks from Luigi's Mansion?
The Down-B move should be, as has been suggested by others, a vacuum attack, which sucks up opponents. This could be similar to Yoshi's B move, trapping the enemy for a moment. This particular move seems to be the most obvious and makes the most sense, considering that Mario's B move has been changed to utilise the FLUDD, which could be considered his vacuum-equivalent.
Pichu In my opinion: unlikely.
This one's easy, really. Pichu was basically Pikachu, except it was damaged by its own attacks, making it more or less pointless. That and its similarity to Pikachu in general seem to give little reason for it to return. It was basically the Pikachu of Gold and Silver, which at the time of Melee's release were recent, but now they're not, so there's even less reason for it to be in Brawl than Melee. Even though its move-set could be redesigned, what reason is there for it to be back in the first place?
Dr Mario In my opinion: unlikely.
Like with Pichu, I think that Dr Mario is too similar to the character he was 'cloned' from to be worth having back. The fact that he is kind of actually meant to BE Mario, and that he could make for a cool alternate costume for him, also could be considered evidence against his return.
Captain Falcon In my opinion: likely.
He's one of the original Smash Bros characters, he's popular, his series icon has been shown on the Dojo, he's the most central character from his series and he has previously had an original move-set. The only evidence against him coming back is that none of his moves are derived from any F-Zero game, because he's never been out of his racer during gameplay, or even been shown to do anything that could constitute the basis for a move-set in cut-scenes. He sometimes has a holstered gun, but that's about it. That's never stopped him being included before, though, and there's plenty of evidence for him to come back, so I would be surprised if he didn't. The only thing I think could be changed is to have his gun being used for at least one attack, just so that he could be considered to have something based on his games. I would also love for his Final Smash to involve him driving the Blue Falcon into others at high speed.
Ganondorf In my opinion: likely with a redesign.
As many have pointed out and suggested, Ganondorf probably had the worst treatment in Melee, and is a major enough character to be brought back in Brawl with a completely redesigned move-set. There's so much potential here it's quite hard to suggest anything that hasn't been mentioned already multiple times, so I'll just point out the things I think are most important.
His basic attacks should use a sword, most likely the one he used in Twilight Princess, as his design will surely be taken from that in order to match Link's and Zelda's. Some dark magic attacks would also fit in well as his specials, especially his usual attack of throwing balls of energy that either burst into multiple smaller balls or stun the opponent. There could also possibly be room for an attack involving riding his horse in a similar way to how Wario rides his motorbike, but I think this is less likely. His Final Smash would clearly be transforming into Ganon and having a nice rampage.
Falco In my opinion: likely with a redesign.
This one's a little tricky. When Melee was released, neither Fox or Falco had been outside of a vehicle in a Starfox game, so their attacks were pretty much made up, in a similar way to Captain Falcon's. Since then, however, Fox has appeared on foot in both Starfox Adventures and Assault, and Falco in Assault. Seeing as how Fox seems to have an unaltered (for the most part, at least) move-set in Brawl, it could be possible that Falco is brought back with new moves taken from Assault, and maybe with some borrowed from Fox in Adventures. He is a major and popular enough character to be brought back, and these games could serve as useful reference points for him.
Now, I must admit that I haven't played Assault, but from what I know it was mostly gun-based. This could pose some problems, as Snake mostly uses weapons and is already in danger of becoming slightly generic, so some potential moves for Falco could be eliminated because of that. Hopefully the sci-fi / anthropomorphic-animal setting could help prevent this, but it could take some further use of artistic license. With the highly possible inclusion of Krystal, who it would make more sense to give moves from Adventures, Falco's move-set could be further limited.
Despite these issues, I do think that Falco's inclusion is likely, if only due to his popularity. If it weren't for Ganondorf I would say that he is the most likely character to be de-cloned.
Sheik In my opinion: likely, just about.
I had originally thought it was unlikely that Sheik would return, due to the fact that Twilight Princess designs are being used, and not only did one for Sheik exist in that game, but he / she does not fit into it's continuity. Although, Smash Bros is probably one of the few games where a lack of continuity is a bonus. I had also thought that the fact that Zelda was revealed relatively early on, but her moves and Sheik weren't also counted as evidence against Sheik's inclusion, but that could just as easily be used as an argument for his / her return.
If it wasn't for Aonuma saying that he had submitted designs for Sheik to Sakurai, I would still be more or less sure Sheik wasn't coming back, but that is a pretty big piece of evidence suggesting he / she will. It's not a confirmation of any kind - just because designs are submitted doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be used. But it does say that Sheik has been seriously considered, at the very least. Right now I'm thinking it is likely he / she will be back, but with what I consider good points on both sides of the argument I wouldn't be amazed if he / she wasn't.
Jigglypuff In my opinion: likely.
It's been in since the first Smash, it has an original move-set, its Rest move is handy for people who want to complete certain objectives quickly and easily, and David Hayter seemed to suggest that it was back. There's not much reason for it not to be back.
Mewtwo In my opinion: likely, maybe with modifications.
Another character with an original move-set with no real reason to not come back. It's been a major part of Pokemon from the start, so it makes sense for it to be included. The only problem is it wasn't very good in Melee, but this doesn't do anything like rule it out completely. It's possible it'll be back as it was in Melee, but it seems more likely that it will at least be drastically modified in some areas, if not given an all-new move-set. Other returning characters have been changed enough for this to seem likely.
Mr Game and Watch In my opinion: likely, maybe with modifications.
Like Mewtwo, Mr G&W is a character with a unique set of moves but who isn't usually considered all that useful, and so doesn't have a huge amount of support for returning. I am near certain he will be though, partially because he's unique (one of the most unique, in fact), but also because his main purpose is to be incredibly stylish, in a very retro way, rather than to be an awesome fighter. Not only are all of his moves unique, but they are all derived from actual games, which is pretty impressive in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if he was modified to make him a bit more balanced, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the exact same form as last time. If the inclusion of Ice Climbers is any indication of how Sakurai is approaching this, then Mr G&W will be back, and that's not even taking into account the icon theory.
Marth and Roy In my opinion: one of them likely, probably Marth.
I would be very surprised if both of these characters returned. Considering the Fire Emblem game mechanics, there isn't much room for an all-new unique move-set to be created for one of these guys, it's impressive enough that the designers appear to have come up with one for Ike. In fact, if it wasn't for that, I would assume that Ike was replacing both Marth and Roy, but he seems that he's different from them both that it would be surprising if neither were back in. As has been suggested by many, Marth seems to be a much more likely inclusion than Roy. He's much more representative of the Fire Emblem series as a whole, has appeared in more games, is the main character in an upcoming game and appears to be the original in Melee that Roy was cloned from. The only argument for Roy that I can think of is that he is visually more distinct from Ike, having red hair rather than blue, and that his attacks sometimes include fire. I still think that Marth is more likely, though.
Ness In my opinion: highly unlikely.
The Dojo update detailing Lucas' moves didn't confirm that Ness is out, but it strongly implied it, even if you go by the original Japanese version. That's before taking into account that his special moves are identical or highly similar to Ness'. Even PK Freeze appears to just be PK Flash with a freezing effect. Unlike Ike, it does not look like the designers were attempting to create a completely separate character in Lucas, but instead a replacement. If you consider that Lucas was originally going to be the one in Melee, the odds are stacked heavily against Ness.
Young Link In my opinion: I have no idea.
This is probably the toughest one to consider. First of all I do not think that Young Link will be included in the same form as he was in Melee. The common suggestion is that he is included in cel-shaded form with a new move-set derived from games like The Wind Waker. I had originally hoped for this, and there are some very good arguments in favour of it, but now I at least hope that he isn't in. I know that many will see this as a really bad reason, but I don't want there to be multiple versions of the same character. I always thought Young Link being included in the first place was a bit odd, and although using the Wind Waker design could drastically change the character both stylistically and in gameplay, I still feel a bit uneasy about it.
There doesn't seem to be much evidence either in favour of or against him being back, except that when Aonuma mentioned submitting Ganondorf and Sheik designs, he said nothing about Young Link, which could easily mean nothing anyway.
The only way I can think of that would make me feel comfortable with Young Link being back is if he is the same character as Link, with a transformation taking place during his Final Smash in a similar way to how Samus becomes Zero Suit Samus and vice versa. He could draw the Master Sword from its pedestal, causing waves of energy to spread out across the stage and ageing him instantly. This seems rather unlikely however, considering there would be no way to go back to Young Link, it could be even weirder for Link to go from a cel-shaded to a "realistic" style than for there to be two separate Link characters, it would probably not work well as far as gameplay is concerned, and the fact that Link's move-set has been modified to make it more canonical with the Twilight Princess style, whereas having Wind Waker Link turn into Twilight Princess Link by gaining the Master Sword (an event that would be derived from Ocarina of Time) would be one of the least canonical things that could possibly be done with this character. So basically, that idea of mine sucks and has gotten me no further in making up my mind about whether Young Link is likely to be back or not.
This character is the only one I think which could go either way, with no more evidence for either side. Personally I don't want him back, but I can't make a judgement about the likelihood.
That turned out to be very long winded. Apologies for length and possible sounding like an arse.
Luigi In my opinion: likely.
Like pretty much everyone else, I'm more or less certain he'll be back. He's a big enough character for it to be silly to think otherwise, especially as he's often playable in Mario games, and other, usually non-playable Mario characters are playable in Brawl (e.g., Peach, Bowser).
Unlike some other people, I don't think he is quite unique enough to come back without some changes made to de-clone him. Although a lot of his moves looked different to Mario's, a lot of the time their effect was near identical. I would like it if at least some of these were changed to make him a little more unique. However, I think he may be the only character who it makes sense to have a few clone-ish attributes, so maybe some of his old similarities with Mario could stay the same. I believe that Luigi's Fireball is an example of a move that could remain unchanged and still make some kind of sense. I do think that Super Jump Punch should be replaced, however, as it just wasn't as good as Mario's and didn't make that much sense in the first place, anyway. I'm undecided about Green Missile, as although it was nice for one of Luigi's special attacks to be completely unique, it was quite a strange idea for a move, and as far as I know wasn't inspired by any game in the series. Perhaps this could be replaced by one of Luigi's elemental vacuum attacks from Luigi's Mansion?
The Down-B move should be, as has been suggested by others, a vacuum attack, which sucks up opponents. This could be similar to Yoshi's B move, trapping the enemy for a moment. This particular move seems to be the most obvious and makes the most sense, considering that Mario's B move has been changed to utilise the FLUDD, which could be considered his vacuum-equivalent.
Pichu In my opinion: unlikely.
This one's easy, really. Pichu was basically Pikachu, except it was damaged by its own attacks, making it more or less pointless. That and its similarity to Pikachu in general seem to give little reason for it to return. It was basically the Pikachu of Gold and Silver, which at the time of Melee's release were recent, but now they're not, so there's even less reason for it to be in Brawl than Melee. Even though its move-set could be redesigned, what reason is there for it to be back in the first place?
Dr Mario In my opinion: unlikely.
Like with Pichu, I think that Dr Mario is too similar to the character he was 'cloned' from to be worth having back. The fact that he is kind of actually meant to BE Mario, and that he could make for a cool alternate costume for him, also could be considered evidence against his return.
Captain Falcon In my opinion: likely.
He's one of the original Smash Bros characters, he's popular, his series icon has been shown on the Dojo, he's the most central character from his series and he has previously had an original move-set. The only evidence against him coming back is that none of his moves are derived from any F-Zero game, because he's never been out of his racer during gameplay, or even been shown to do anything that could constitute the basis for a move-set in cut-scenes. He sometimes has a holstered gun, but that's about it. That's never stopped him being included before, though, and there's plenty of evidence for him to come back, so I would be surprised if he didn't. The only thing I think could be changed is to have his gun being used for at least one attack, just so that he could be considered to have something based on his games. I would also love for his Final Smash to involve him driving the Blue Falcon into others at high speed.
Ganondorf In my opinion: likely with a redesign.
As many have pointed out and suggested, Ganondorf probably had the worst treatment in Melee, and is a major enough character to be brought back in Brawl with a completely redesigned move-set. There's so much potential here it's quite hard to suggest anything that hasn't been mentioned already multiple times, so I'll just point out the things I think are most important.
His basic attacks should use a sword, most likely the one he used in Twilight Princess, as his design will surely be taken from that in order to match Link's and Zelda's. Some dark magic attacks would also fit in well as his specials, especially his usual attack of throwing balls of energy that either burst into multiple smaller balls or stun the opponent. There could also possibly be room for an attack involving riding his horse in a similar way to how Wario rides his motorbike, but I think this is less likely. His Final Smash would clearly be transforming into Ganon and having a nice rampage.
Falco In my opinion: likely with a redesign.
This one's a little tricky. When Melee was released, neither Fox or Falco had been outside of a vehicle in a Starfox game, so their attacks were pretty much made up, in a similar way to Captain Falcon's. Since then, however, Fox has appeared on foot in both Starfox Adventures and Assault, and Falco in Assault. Seeing as how Fox seems to have an unaltered (for the most part, at least) move-set in Brawl, it could be possible that Falco is brought back with new moves taken from Assault, and maybe with some borrowed from Fox in Adventures. He is a major and popular enough character to be brought back, and these games could serve as useful reference points for him.
Now, I must admit that I haven't played Assault, but from what I know it was mostly gun-based. This could pose some problems, as Snake mostly uses weapons and is already in danger of becoming slightly generic, so some potential moves for Falco could be eliminated because of that. Hopefully the sci-fi / anthropomorphic-animal setting could help prevent this, but it could take some further use of artistic license. With the highly possible inclusion of Krystal, who it would make more sense to give moves from Adventures, Falco's move-set could be further limited.
Despite these issues, I do think that Falco's inclusion is likely, if only due to his popularity. If it weren't for Ganondorf I would say that he is the most likely character to be de-cloned.
Sheik In my opinion: likely, just about.
I had originally thought it was unlikely that Sheik would return, due to the fact that Twilight Princess designs are being used, and not only did one for Sheik exist in that game, but he / she does not fit into it's continuity. Although, Smash Bros is probably one of the few games where a lack of continuity is a bonus. I had also thought that the fact that Zelda was revealed relatively early on, but her moves and Sheik weren't also counted as evidence against Sheik's inclusion, but that could just as easily be used as an argument for his / her return.
If it wasn't for Aonuma saying that he had submitted designs for Sheik to Sakurai, I would still be more or less sure Sheik wasn't coming back, but that is a pretty big piece of evidence suggesting he / she will. It's not a confirmation of any kind - just because designs are submitted doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be used. But it does say that Sheik has been seriously considered, at the very least. Right now I'm thinking it is likely he / she will be back, but with what I consider good points on both sides of the argument I wouldn't be amazed if he / she wasn't.
Jigglypuff In my opinion: likely.
It's been in since the first Smash, it has an original move-set, its Rest move is handy for people who want to complete certain objectives quickly and easily, and David Hayter seemed to suggest that it was back. There's not much reason for it not to be back.
Mewtwo In my opinion: likely, maybe with modifications.
Another character with an original move-set with no real reason to not come back. It's been a major part of Pokemon from the start, so it makes sense for it to be included. The only problem is it wasn't very good in Melee, but this doesn't do anything like rule it out completely. It's possible it'll be back as it was in Melee, but it seems more likely that it will at least be drastically modified in some areas, if not given an all-new move-set. Other returning characters have been changed enough for this to seem likely.
Mr Game and Watch In my opinion: likely, maybe with modifications.
Like Mewtwo, Mr G&W is a character with a unique set of moves but who isn't usually considered all that useful, and so doesn't have a huge amount of support for returning. I am near certain he will be though, partially because he's unique (one of the most unique, in fact), but also because his main purpose is to be incredibly stylish, in a very retro way, rather than to be an awesome fighter. Not only are all of his moves unique, but they are all derived from actual games, which is pretty impressive in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if he was modified to make him a bit more balanced, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the exact same form as last time. If the inclusion of Ice Climbers is any indication of how Sakurai is approaching this, then Mr G&W will be back, and that's not even taking into account the icon theory.
Marth and Roy In my opinion: one of them likely, probably Marth.
I would be very surprised if both of these characters returned. Considering the Fire Emblem game mechanics, there isn't much room for an all-new unique move-set to be created for one of these guys, it's impressive enough that the designers appear to have come up with one for Ike. In fact, if it wasn't for that, I would assume that Ike was replacing both Marth and Roy, but he seems that he's different from them both that it would be surprising if neither were back in. As has been suggested by many, Marth seems to be a much more likely inclusion than Roy. He's much more representative of the Fire Emblem series as a whole, has appeared in more games, is the main character in an upcoming game and appears to be the original in Melee that Roy was cloned from. The only argument for Roy that I can think of is that he is visually more distinct from Ike, having red hair rather than blue, and that his attacks sometimes include fire. I still think that Marth is more likely, though.
Ness In my opinion: highly unlikely.
The Dojo update detailing Lucas' moves didn't confirm that Ness is out, but it strongly implied it, even if you go by the original Japanese version. That's before taking into account that his special moves are identical or highly similar to Ness'. Even PK Freeze appears to just be PK Flash with a freezing effect. Unlike Ike, it does not look like the designers were attempting to create a completely separate character in Lucas, but instead a replacement. If you consider that Lucas was originally going to be the one in Melee, the odds are stacked heavily against Ness.
Young Link In my opinion: I have no idea.
This is probably the toughest one to consider. First of all I do not think that Young Link will be included in the same form as he was in Melee. The common suggestion is that he is included in cel-shaded form with a new move-set derived from games like The Wind Waker. I had originally hoped for this, and there are some very good arguments in favour of it, but now I at least hope that he isn't in. I know that many will see this as a really bad reason, but I don't want there to be multiple versions of the same character. I always thought Young Link being included in the first place was a bit odd, and although using the Wind Waker design could drastically change the character both stylistically and in gameplay, I still feel a bit uneasy about it.
There doesn't seem to be much evidence either in favour of or against him being back, except that when Aonuma mentioned submitting Ganondorf and Sheik designs, he said nothing about Young Link, which could easily mean nothing anyway.
The only way I can think of that would make me feel comfortable with Young Link being back is if he is the same character as Link, with a transformation taking place during his Final Smash in a similar way to how Samus becomes Zero Suit Samus and vice versa. He could draw the Master Sword from its pedestal, causing waves of energy to spread out across the stage and ageing him instantly. This seems rather unlikely however, considering there would be no way to go back to Young Link, it could be even weirder for Link to go from a cel-shaded to a "realistic" style than for there to be two separate Link characters, it would probably not work well as far as gameplay is concerned, and the fact that Link's move-set has been modified to make it more canonical with the Twilight Princess style, whereas having Wind Waker Link turn into Twilight Princess Link by gaining the Master Sword (an event that would be derived from Ocarina of Time) would be one of the least canonical things that could possibly be done with this character. So basically, that idea of mine sucks and has gotten me no further in making up my mind about whether Young Link is likely to be back or not.
This character is the only one I think which could go either way, with no more evidence for either side. Personally I don't want him back, but I can't make a judgement about the likelihood.
That turned out to be very long winded. Apologies for length and possible sounding like an arse.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
man u have touched my heart with these details!! KUDOS TO YOU
Dynamism
Smash Lord
Good job Face - This has been said a thousand times but it has been a while since someone bothered doing the "sum up" again. Next time it's all being "re-questioned" (in a week lol) just post it again.
Except with that Young Link issue. I still don't have any reason to believe he won't be in other than they just might not do it (like they didn't but Dedede in melee or Bowser in 64[Cause we all know Jiggs is more popular and important to Nintendo than them] -confused sarcasm]). He is as (or more) important than Link, plenty unique in MS cause of all Link has to offer (in animation if CS) and we have no other real options for the "bouncy" swordsman. Fast (Marth), floaty (MK), fire-power (Link), heavy (Ike), Pit is probably the closest to it but he's extremely aerial and CSL would be very land based.
Plus I just want him in for the sake of having more characters and he's as cool and as good a candidat as any
Except with that Young Link issue. I still don't have any reason to believe he won't be in other than they just might not do it (like they didn't but Dedede in melee or Bowser in 64[Cause we all know Jiggs is more popular and important to Nintendo than them] -confused sarcasm]). He is as (or more) important than Link, plenty unique in MS cause of all Link has to offer (in animation if CS) and we have no other real options for the "bouncy" swordsman. Fast (Marth), floaty (MK), fire-power (Link), heavy (Ike), Pit is probably the closest to it but he's extremely aerial and CSL would be very land based.
Plus I just want him in for the sake of having more characters and he's as cool and as good a candidat as any
I agree with it for the most part, I simply want to add to these two. First, I don't see any reason for restricting the Zelda reps to only TP, though not including the current reps(link and Zelda) and possibly Ganondorf, considering the action taken place is to remove as much cloning as possible, and since they have the time and resources(TP) for giving Ganondorf his own moveset. Though I believe there will be more N64 LoZ Rep than just a medley. Should they choose to take out the character of Sheik as playable(for whatever reason, be it because they want a TP Zelda or whatever) the moveset is original, and can be given to Impa easily. Impa trained Zelda in the Sheikah, ways, IS a full-blooded Sheikah, and is obviously a skilled fighter, having been assigned as the princess' personal bodyguard. No reason why Impa can't take over for Shiek, and everyone who says 'Oh, Zelda looks like TP, that means Sheik is out' can be right and stop complaining.
Young Link, in order to represent N64 LoZ era, can be a MM theme, where his down B is putting on different masks, changing into deku/goron/zora and back again, and his FS being Fierce Deity Link. I also believe a WW Link to be likely as well, though just not as likely.
greenblob
Smash Lord
It's almost as if Ike already replaced Roy, with casuals saying "Ike is awesome," high-level Smashers saying, "Ike sucks," and the whole "Ike for top tier" thing.
Oh yeah, and the ph1r3.
Oh yeah, and the ph1r3.
Thank youGood job Face - This has been said a thousand times but it has been a while since someone bothered doing the "sum up" again. Next time it's all being "re-questioned" (in a week lol) just post it again.
Except with that Young Link issue. I still don't have any reason to believe he won't be in other than they just might not do it (like they didn't but Dedede in melee or Bowser in 64[Cause we all know Jiggs is more popular and important to Nintendo than them] -confused sarcasm]). He is as (or more) important than Link, plenty unique in MS cause of all Link has to offer (in animation if CS) and we have no other real options for the "bouncy" swordsman. Fast (Marth), floaty (MK), fire-power (Link), heavy (Ike), Pit is probably the closest to it but he's extremely aerial and CSL would be very land based.
Plus I just want him in for the sake of having more characters and he's as cool and as good a candidat as any
You make some good valid points there, it was nice having a small, light swordsman in Melee. Something else I'm slightly uneasy about is how there are starting to be so many swordsmen in Smash that people are starting to view them in a separate category to other characters. But, as I said, I'm just not sure about Young Link and I'm not even sure my reasons for not wanting him back are that valid. If he is back the form he is in could have a big impact on how happy I am about it, personally.
I actually really like your idea about Impa replacing Sheik, it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately I don't think it's that likely - I expect Sakurai would rather keep Sheik in, and there's the thing about Aonuma having designs sent to him. I quite like your Young Link idea, too, but I think it's also a bit unlikely. Having four different forms could be pushing it a step too far, and could result in the character being a bit overpowered. Having a stamina system like with the Pokemon Trainer might not make that much sense either, and I think it would be tough or impossible for the designers to strike a balance between the different forms being underpowered individually or overpowered as a whole.Eldezar said:
I don't think the LoZ characters have to be restricted to Twilight Princess either, but it just seems likely that they'll go this way. In previous Smash games the N64 versions were used to represent the series as a whole, even though it was quite obvious where the bulk of the reference material came from. Ideally I would like it if there were at least individual trophies representing each different Link from the series (NES, Link to the Past / Link's Awakening / Oracle games, N64, Wind Waker / Phantom Hourglass, etc.), as his trophy text seemed a bit misleading in Melee. Things along those lines just don't seem likely, though.
Dynamism
Smash Lord
There are way too many swordsman (Link , YLink, Ike, Marth, MK, Pit) Micaiah can replace Roy and Ganon does NOT need a sword to live up to expectations. And Peach is a beam swordswoman too
I first thought the new YLink would be exactly what your MM reference described but it is actually over doing it. CSLink is cool though And reasonable. Impa vs Sheik...Sheik cause she's almost retro but Impa cause IF NESS IS REPLACED SHEIK DESERVES TO BE TOO ****IT!!!
ok...Zelda will have about 5 reps so whoever it is, they'll be worthly plenty (Ganon, Zelda, Link, YLink, Sheik/Impa/SkullK/Midna/etc....) And the swordsman thing isn't out of proportion because the roster will increase overall, so the swordsman should too.
I first thought the new YLink would be exactly what your MM reference described but it is actually over doing it. CSLink is cool though
And reasonable. Impa vs Sheik...Sheik cause she's almost retro but Impa cause IF NESS IS REPLACED SHEIK DESERVES TO BE TOO ****IT!!!ok...Zelda will have about 5 reps so whoever it is, they'll be worthly plenty (Ganon, Zelda, Link, YLink, Sheik/Impa/SkullK/Midna/etc....) And the swordsman thing isn't out of proportion because the roster will increase overall, so the swordsman should too.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Ok, I'm not going to say that ANYONE is definitely in or out because I'm not Sakurai, but let me say in priority of returning:
Doc Mario- highly unlikely
Luigi- highly likely
Captain Falcon- highly likely
Ganondorf- highly likely
Falco- on the fence
Ness- highly unlikely
Sheik- likely
Young Link- on the fense
Pichu- highly unlikely
Jigglypuff- highly likely
Mewtwo- likely
Mr. Game & Watch- likely
Marth- highly likely
Roy- highly unlikely
Doc Mario- highly unlikely
Luigi- highly likely
Captain Falcon- highly likely
Ganondorf- highly likely
Falco- on the fence
Ness- highly unlikely
Sheik- likely
Young Link- on the fense
Pichu- highly unlikely
Jigglypuff- highly likely
Mewtwo- likely
Mr. Game & Watch- likely
Marth- highly likely
Roy- highly unlikely
greenblob
Smash Lord
I dunno... I've always thought that three Zelda reps would be ideal--one representing a third of the Triforce.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
^^^^
That's why Ganondorf is practically a definite and Sheik is questionable (because we already have Zelda).
That's why Ganondorf is practically a definite and Sheik is questionable (because we already have Zelda).
In SSBM...
Sword Fighters: Link, Young Link, Marth, Roy.
Hammer Fighters: Ice Climbers
Ranged Projectile: Falco, Fox, Samus, Link, YLink
Kicks and Punches: Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi, DK, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Shiek, Samus
Magic/Psychic/Elemental: Ness, Zelda, Pichu, Pikachu, Mewtwo.
In SSBB(confirmed):
Melee Sword Fighters: Link, Pit, Ike, Meta Knight
Melee Hammer Fighters: Ice Climbers, DeDeDe
Ranged Projectile: Fox, Samus, Link, Pit, Snake
Kicks and Punches: Mario, DK, Fox, Samus, ZSamus, Snake, Wario, Diddy K, Sonic.
Magic/Psychic/Elemental: Lucas, Zelda, Pikachu, PokeTrainer,
This is obviuosly not a complete list, but is still a good approximation. We know there are going to be a minimum 7 more character and possibly 17 or more characters. Let's say the maximum number of sword fighters there will be if all of the most popular sword fighter were included, which would be marth and roy both returning, young link returns, ganondorf has a sword and Miciah enters. That would make nine sword fighters, equal to the current confirmed punch/kick fighters.
And if I wanted, we could include Peach, bowser, yoshi, kirby, jiggs and a few others into the punch/kick category, (i just didnt because they also fall under a special ability type of category as well, just couldnt think of one), and then we would definitely have a scarcity of sword fighter in comparison.
Many more characters could be entered into the other abilites, such as mario and bowser and ylink into the elemental(fire) category, I just didnt want to go that specific since I believe everyone here except for those under 10 can understand what I am saying without me having to go indepth (exceptions do apply). So in the end, we definitely do not have too many sword fighters, however they CAN be put aside in favor of more types of fighting styles which are lacking.
Sword Fighters: Link, Young Link, Marth, Roy.
Hammer Fighters: Ice Climbers
Ranged Projectile: Falco, Fox, Samus, Link, YLink
Kicks and Punches: Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi, DK, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Shiek, Samus
Magic/Psychic/Elemental: Ness, Zelda, Pichu, Pikachu, Mewtwo.
In SSBB(confirmed):
Melee Sword Fighters: Link, Pit, Ike, Meta Knight
Melee Hammer Fighters: Ice Climbers, DeDeDe
Ranged Projectile: Fox, Samus, Link, Pit, Snake
Kicks and Punches: Mario, DK, Fox, Samus, ZSamus, Snake, Wario, Diddy K, Sonic.
Magic/Psychic/Elemental: Lucas, Zelda, Pikachu, PokeTrainer,
This is obviuosly not a complete list, but is still a good approximation. We know there are going to be a minimum 7 more character and possibly 17 or more characters. Let's say the maximum number of sword fighters there will be if all of the most popular sword fighter were included, which would be marth and roy both returning, young link returns, ganondorf has a sword and Miciah enters. That would make nine sword fighters, equal to the current confirmed punch/kick fighters.
And if I wanted, we could include Peach, bowser, yoshi, kirby, jiggs and a few others into the punch/kick category, (i just didnt because they also fall under a special ability type of category as well, just couldnt think of one), and then we would definitely have a scarcity of sword fighter in comparison.
Many more characters could be entered into the other abilites, such as mario and bowser and ylink into the elemental(fire) category, I just didnt want to go that specific since I believe everyone here except for those under 10 can understand what I am saying without me having to go indepth (exceptions do apply). So in the end, we definitely do not have too many sword fighters, however they CAN be put aside in favor of more types of fighting styles which are lacking.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
nice explanation fo the catagories that would take me hours to do
These categories are only basic, it took me less than ten minutes. If someone wanted tog o in depth and research every characters move to put each one into as many categories as they qualify, that would take hours. You would have to make up multiple categories for G&W alone unless you just decided to make like a random category or something. I just included the major styles for everyone. Actually I forgot to put Ice Climbers in elemental.
O well.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
well that was what i was trying to say
XCWarrior
Smash Apprentice
I agree with this for the most part. With the exceptions being Sheik I'd guess is not in, or still just the other half of Zelda. Y. Link is a no. Jigglypuff is not as likely as you want to believe.
Everything else I would go with, though I want Roy back bad as well.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
I actually meant to put Sheik as "on the fence".
Don't know how that one slipped.
And I'd say everything else is on par. Jigglypuff has GREAT chances. There's absolutely no one who could replace her, and she's practically a staple to the series. YLink isn't definitely out. We can't say anyone is definitely out, but I think his chances are fair because of the chance he could be luigified into CSLink.
Supa_Sonic
Smash Apprentice
I think that ganondorf mewtwo and falco should come back
Reyairia
Smash Champion
- Joined
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Dr. Mario can still come back as an alternate costume to Mario.
XCWarrior
Smash Apprentice
Great staple in the series? I hate to burst a lot of your guys bubbles, but this "series" is two games old. The first game was a last second after thought, and that is why it is so small. He was popular in the anime show at the time, so he was put in the original because he was easy to make. That's it.
Sure, he might make it back, but don't be shocked or horrified when he isn't. He is a horrible character that is basically a mobile sandbag for me to pound on.
Y. Link was a clone, not much you can do with him to make him a unique. Maybe a costume change at best. I mean come on, he's Pichu in Link form if you think about it. And this is coming from a guy who uses Link more than any other charater.
Knyaguy
Smash Lord
Amen to that By the way you should add CFalcon.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Jiggz is awesome.
She'll return.
Yes, that's my reasoning.
I'm done.
She'll return.
Yes, that's my reasoning.
I'm done.
Shadowplusle
Smash Journeyman
Jigglypuff isn't a horrible character, obviously not the best either but there are much worse ones. The biggest reason for it coming back is that there isn't any reason for it not to. Plenty of the most casual players (like people who don't actually own the game but play copies belonging to others occasionally, or beginners) like to use it because of Rest, and that's a pretty big section of the audience.
Also, saying Young Link can't be redesigned is a bit silly, really, especially if you look back through this thread and see the suggestions lots of people have made. If he was made to be cel-shaded there is potential in items like the Deku Leaf, Four Sword, Grappling Hook, etc. If he was given a Majora's Mask inspired move-set he could use any number of mask-related abilities.
Also, saying Young Link can't be redesigned is a bit silly, really, especially if you look back through this thread and see the suggestions lots of people have made. If he was made to be cel-shaded there is potential in items like the Deku Leaf, Four Sword, Grappling Hook, etc. If he was given a Majora's Mask inspired move-set he could use any number of mask-related abilities.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
grrr why are they holding luigi back?!?!!? i need to know hell be in so i can STOP ALL THIS WORRYING THAT HE MIGHT NOT MAKE IT
Panik
Smash Journeyman
Ahhh.... Yes.... It's so simple, it just might work!
I guess the whole reason I was getting mad that the Doc was not coming back, was because I don't like the way Mario looks. The Doc is more pleasing to the eye, what can I say.
I really hope they add it as a costume though, seriously. It would solve the entire Doctah Debate (DD), because most people that main Doc realize that Mario has practically every move he has.
Bassoonist
Smash Master
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Stop worrying. The game would make no sense without Luigi in it. Luigi WILL come back.
Trust me on this, I'm generally against the idea of "shoe-ins", but Luigi is definitely one.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
ok thanks that helped me a lil.....but why doesnt sakuria (sp) just confirm him already? he should have been like the first with mario....hes toying with me....
Bassoonist
Smash Master
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NONE of the unlockable veterans have been shown yet. So I'd think Luigi's announcement will be at least in the next three shown. Hopefully.
geemann2236
Smash Journeyman
I hope Ganon, Marth, and Jiggz return. CF is obviously gonna return. I also want Falco to return, and then everything is good. I do not want Ness returning because Lucas would then be a Ness Clown.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
yea one (in this case two) can only hope.....cuz hes my ALL TIME BEST PLAYER...
InjuredPelican
Smash Cadet
I was watching an interview with one of the members of the smash development team. When asked about characters, he noted on Samus, Mario, and Luigi. Luigi's been around nearly as long as Mario, so there's little chance of him not making it. I only hope he's not unlockable again, because I don't like unlocking the same guy three times in a row.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
ok now i am PERFECTLY calm about that....i thank you all
The only thing similar about Ness and Lucas are their specials, but Sakurai specifically said that he doesn't have the same standard, and those are just as important in defining a character as the specials. I am confident Ness is still in, right down to his backpack, bat and yo-yo. His specials will simply be PK flash rather than freeze, and his PK fire may shoot downwards rather than across, but Psi Magnet and PK Thunder seem to be the same, though they could be tweaked as well. But sriously, changing a characters standard moves make him much less of a clone than changing only his specials. Four similar moves vs. 16, this includes grabs. I don't consider Lucas a clone at all, and don't see why anyone else should.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
nice specifications eldezar im inpressed
im inpressedkunai_abuser
Smash Journeyman
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- Aug 29, 2007
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- 241
If Luigi doesn't make it, I'll be shocked.
SonicLuigi
Smash Journeyman
thank you!! but dont worry he should if not sakurai is goin down