Official SWF Tier List v8

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm sorry do you main ganondorf. Usmash and Dair definitely do true combo into things. Dthrow and Dtilt are probably of frame traps, but they are basically guaranteed.

That's never a valid argument. You can learn from playing against said character. From playing dla and breezy dair -> something doesn't work in everyone at 0%. You can often just Nair from hit stun. Dtilt you can jjump out. To the inexperienced stuff works more than it should.

 

[Rizen]

I was unaware Ganon had any true combos outside flame choke without reads.

First off, explain to me what is the big difference from getting chain grabbed on FD then on BF/SV?

Aside from not using platforms to land on FD, which is very big for MUs, anyone who has a moving CG like DDD/Yoshi/Pika/SoPo/etc gets to CG across the remainder of the stage. That's the easiest grab setup+a huge stage that's like twice as long as SV for damage. Then when you grab the ledge afterward you have to get off it and that means you can get CGed across FD the other way. That's a ton of damage and being put in a terrible position from 1 easy grab

 

[DeLux]

I'm hoping that LM =/= Luigi's mansion?

It does mean Luigi's Mansion

And RC is a different kind of random. Random as in, landing a solid usmash at any given time can yield drastically different results. If you land an usmash on FD, the result will always be the same. Also, RC has walls.

Ok, then we should only play on FD. Landing an Usmash on the top BF platform will yield drastically different results than landing an usmash on the bottom part of BF assuming certain percent ranges. Good point

In reality, I guess we should play on 0 stages so that way the stages can never affect the results!

 

[pidgezero_one]

SV, BF, YIB, DP, FO, CS, LC, PS, RC | FD

Debates between adding in PS2 or LM possible

We also do 2 stages bans after game 1 (in 1-2-1 fashion), and might add 3 or 4 stage bans if we move to a 13 stage list (which is possible).

Not sure why RC gets that much hate (outside of MK), it's tied with FD/BF for randomness

What exactly is random about RC anyway? ****, PS1 and Yoshi's are more random than RC

 

[DeLux]

EXACTLY!!!!!!

 

[pidgezero_one]

I'm really mad I can't CP RC as Kirby anymore. dem 0% kills

 

[DeLux]

I'm really mad people complain how ICs are so good, but then demand that everything they are bad at is banned (stages, super campy planking, etc.)

 

[Delta-cod]

But Delux, we can't have bigger stage lists because they're unfair and stupid.

Now excuse me while I go cry about the ICs being unfair and stupid.

 

[pidgezero_one]

"I have a good ground game, get your ass on the ground" = hello neutral stage starter pls
"I have a good aerial game, get your ass in the air" = omfg too random wtf ban this stage forever and get rid of gentleman's rule too

 

[Dekillsage]

I'm really mad people complain how ICs are so good, but then demand that everything they are bad at is banned (stages, super campy planking, etc.)

You know who doesn't complain about IC's!?!?!?!


THIS GUY RIGHT HERE YEAHHHHHHHH

 

[infiniteV115]

And RC is a different kind of random. Random as in, landing a solid usmash at any given time can yield drastically different results. If you land an usmash on FD, the result will always be the same. Also, RC has walls.

FD has walls, that's why you can wall jump and wall cling and stuff.

PS1 has walls, ban that too?
No, wait, it doesn't make sense to ban PS1 because the walls there are temporary, have a fixed location, and with basic knowledge of the stage you'll know when and where the wall is popping up AT LEAST 5 seconds before the wall is even visible, right?





This sounds oddly familiar

 

[Dekillsage]

Seriously v115 lol

Honestly the game would prooobably be more interesting with more stages, buuuuut
a certain little mr#1 makes it suck. So lets not turn them back on for the sake of not

 

[pidgezero_one]

How the **** is it I've increased my "like" count by 5% today from posting on topic?

 

[Ghostbone]

RC is a terrible competitive stage, even though it's not random (temple isn't random either)

Smashville's amazingly neutral (in most matchups) as evidenced by the fact it's the most played on stage.
/why is this thread a stage discussion thread.

 

[Dekillsage]

It's because you're the kewlest flaocmaster666

On rainbow you can test your platforming skills!!!! and you then learn your characters limitations

 

[Shaya]

Rainbow Cruise is a perfectly fine stage.

You ******* just don't know how to platform cancel.

And by platform cancelling I mean

buffering a platform cancel out of a platform cancel into a dash platform cancel platform cancel. Buffered.

 

[Dekillsage]

Marth main talking about platform cancelling I see

 

[pidgezero_one]

It's because you're the kewlest flaocmaster666

On rainbow you can test your platforming skills!!!! and you then learn your characters limitations

I feel like a goddamn sideshow. (not that that's going to change my behaviour)

On Rainbow you learn how great it is to have a lot of jumps.

 

[Dekillsage]

You also learn about how ****ty your jump is

 

[Delta-cod]

I like how people say you get forced into disadvantage on rainbow, yet you can do the same to your opponent. And if you're both forced into disadvantage, are you guys really both disadvantaged?

Uncompetitive tho. How dare the stage treat both players without bias.

 

[Dekillsage]

Can't do the same to your opponent if they're faster than you though. I can't platform the best

 

[Delta-cod]

Wait. So you mean, the characters present are what cause the stage to be advantageous/disadvantageous to someone? You mean it's... a counterpick!?

ALERT THE MASSES

 

[Dekillsage]

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

Guess my character counterpick on your stage counterpick

 

[Delta-cod]

...

Jigglypuff?

 

[Dekillsage]

Probably kirby or something

 

[pidgezero_one]

...

Jigglypuff?

Problem?

 

[Delta-cod]

You're a flaoc, not a jigglypuff.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

RC should be one of the more liked stages since it adds to that king of the hill aspect that smash is all about. Stage position changes almost instantly there. That's interesting, but I guess endless SV is preferred.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Platforms are part of the game too. FD boosts some characters' abilities and gives others nothing to work with. You can't ignore that FD seriously hurts many characters and boosts some. There's a reason why it's the most banned/struck stage in the game.

If you play Peach it might seem like a strait forward fight; Peach floats and gets around a lot of grab tactics.
Play G&W and you lose a big part of his pressuring/juggling/mixups. Wolf you have nothing to work with. Ganon, well is Ganon and sucks but characters can easily exploit and become untouchable. Zelda, good luck coming down to the stage/aproaching and loses a lot of pressuring ability. Link, there goes Link's landing canceling and platform camping, run up and shield grab him, huge nerf. PT does alright unless a character who's good on FD shows up and CGs, then you can't do much except flamethrower with char. Bowser good luck approaching, nothing save landings.
Any character who gets CGed gets CG a huge distance and FD is the hardest stage to avoid CGs.

A hand full of characters are seriously buffed on FD a few like Lucario can do okay on FD but to many it's the worst stage to fight the buffed characters. Plain =/= neutral at all. FD is extreamly hurt or buff as much as any given CP stage.

is great on fd except vs , , , , and . I think does very well vs on FD because he has a lot of area to move around to.

 

[Delta-cod]

I dunno man, that kinda seems like his point.

 

[pidgezero_one]

You're a flaoc, not a jigglypuff.

Actually in 6 days I will be a Kirby. STAY TUNED...

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

This had become the stage thread because whenever people try to argue on the stage thread the only people who post there are all in agreement already. It basically is a bunch of liberal stage list individuals all patting each other on the back. So we come here where people will actually argue with us.

 

[Ghostbone]

I used to be liberal
Then I witnessed how stupid the Halberd claw is, and how liberal ideology makes Mario Bros. legit.
Fun times.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was unaware Ganon had any true combos outside flame choke without reads.

Aside from not using platforms to land on FD, which is very big for MUs, anyone who has a moving CG like DDD/Yoshi/Pika/SoPo/etc gets to CG across the remainder of the stage. That's the easiest grab setup+a huge stage that's like twice as long as SV for damage. Then when you grab the ledge afterward you have to get off it and that means you can get CGed across FD the other way. That's a ton of damage and being put in a terrible position from 1 easy grab

So the stage should be a counterpick, cause of chain grabs.....

You know what a Platform could do? Characters with good platform pressure could put you in nasty post and get you off stage. And with Good edgeguarding, you could take as much damage if you were to get chain grabbed before hitting the floor or you die. BF vs MK, have fun with that. Should that be a counterpick as well cause of him? You know when all fails, people will run to the bat.

Learn to space your moves against said characters so this does not happen. In fighting games there are characters that are all about grabs. You gonna tell the dude to stop using him cause his grabs and command grabs because it does too much damage? You avoid grabs by safe pressure and Good use of projectiles of said character has one.

People complain about IC too much. Learn How to space moves well. People play too cowardly against Them. Thus this is why I think they are not as good as people make them out to be. Same with DDD. You won't get anything right if you don't mess up. If you get grabbed by IC DDD, etc. cause you messed up, then work on it. To get it right, you have to get it wrong first. How you expect to get better at something if you don't keep trying over and over. That's not how you get good at anything. Take you loses and mistakes now, win later.

People don't practice how to deal with certain things alot out of fear, or they are just lazy. Then they complain about stuff. This is why IC and DDD get away with things I feel they should not be. People just don't know how to deal with grab happy characters/players.


I don't see that as a legit reason to make that stage a counterpick.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

The fact that it is the most commonly stage banned is a pretty good sign it might be counter pick material... I still don't even like the idea of the starter list. The neutral stages are the ones that get struck last during stage striking and that could be anything depending on the characters involved. Wario vs g&w may start on Rainbow cruise or brinstar, but no that isn't a starter so that's off limits. With FD at one end and say Rainbow cruise at the other, we should have the starters be in the middle not start at one end... Our even better just get rid of starters and do full stage list striking.

 

[Dekillsage]

I don't think having starters or full stage striking is bad. Should be left up to the TO's to decide which one to use.
Regardless people are just going to agree to smashville game 1 anyways

 

[Dark.Pch]

People usually bann that stage cause of this chain grab fear or campers. I personally don't care for fighting on FD against ANY character except MK and DK. I'm bad vs them there but learning it. I usually try to get battlefield since its my PERSONAL best stage. People usually bann that stage vs me more then anything else.

If you was to look at it. Stages are usually banned or made counterpicks cause:

- Too much is happen which can screw up the fight.
- People can get the lead, run away and you can not catch them at all. (example, hyrule)
- Some characters get a crazy boost where it is just too much.

So if we were to go on about FD. The so call characters that get a boost are:

Chain grab:
Pika, IC, DDD, Yoshi (only on grab release on a selected few)

Campers:
Fox, Falco, Link, TL, Snake, Samus, Pit, Sonic, ROB, Diddy, Lucario, Wario, Jiggz, Kirby, MK, Olimar

These are characters that would abuse the size of the stage to run away after getting damage or abuse chain grabs. Which would become annoying to deal with or catch. They can benefit from this. 20 characters Nearly half the cast benefit from this stage based on character traits.

But the main issue I seem to hear with this stage is chain grabs. So against those 4, you mean to tell me there is not a way to deal with it at all on this stage that is has to be a counter?

 

[-LzR-]

One issue with FD is that is reduces the amount of skill required to play. No, I'm serious.

 

[Dark.Pch]

One issue with FD is that is reduces the amount of skill required to play. No, I'm serious.

I think you have that confused with Meta Knight.

 

[-LzR-]

That is another issue, but a serious one unlike FD.