Official SWF Tier List v8

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Dammit @ infiniteV115 I was about to be like "oh I like how you JUST SO HAPPEN to put Falco first in your "unordered" list" but then I realized it was alphabetical

Still tho Falco #5 4lyfe

Also I like your Diddy placing.

 

[xDD-Master]

Snake is 3rd

 

[Blueberry Kong]

V9? plz.
Mario isn't low tier. Mekos and Pink Fresh have both proved Lucas should be higher on the tier list. SO many Sonic players have proved he should go up. Japanese have proved Sheik/Sheilda > Ike.

Controversial change: Pikachu played at the highest level (ESAM) is definately better than Falco AND Snake.

 

[BlueXenon]

I think it's possible to create another tier list project because many former Brawl players say that they are still interested in the game.

I think Fox would rise the most.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

I think it's possible to create another tier list project because many former Brawl players say that they are still interested in the game.

I think Fox would rise the most.

I think Fox is an amazing character, but the Pikachu CP might be too strong...

 

[infiniteV115]

Pikachu and, more importantly, ICs. Still, he's underrated; most of the other char around his location on the tier list also get bodied by 2-3 top tiers, and Fox does pretty well against the rest of top tier. Even with ZSS/Falco, close to even with MK which is huge, also seems to be only a slight disadvantage against Marth/Oli but idk too much about these MUs. I hear Diddy's a terrible MU but that's what people said about Wolf:Diddy, and then Zinoto goes and loses to Seagull lol. Wario COULD be a pretty bad MU for him too I guess because of the CG.

Also I think Fox goes even with/beats Snake. And then he also beats Lucario, DDD, and is even with/beats everyone else except Sheik.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Stop it Vishal Fox is terrible.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I do think Brawl is due for a revision to the tier list. I feel so maby characters need moving and like you all said several characters have proven to be far better than they were considered previously.

 

[BlueXenon]

I think Peach could potentially get in the upper mid tier. Kie and Slayerz proved that she has the tools to compete at top level play vs top tier characters. She still has a terrible MK match up, but it doesn't seem like it's -3 anymore. I could be wrong, but I think this tier list was created before Slayerz and Kie's major wins.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Pikachu and, more importantly, ICs. Still, he's underrated; most of the other char around his location on the tier list also get bodied by 2-3 top tiers, and Fox does pretty well against the rest of top tier. Even with ZSS/Falco, close to even with MK which is huge, also seems to be only a slight disadvantage against Marth/Oli but idk too much about these MUs. I hear Diddy's a terrible MU but that's what people said about Wolf:Diddy, and then Zinoto goes and loses to Seagull lol. Wario COULD be a pretty bad MU for him too I guess because of the CG.

Also I think Fox goes even with/beats Snake. And then he also beats Lucario, DDD, and is even with/beats everyone else except Sheik.

I always said was even with . He's also even with and of relevant characters. I think only Gheb said it was terrible.

loses 45-55 to and . He loses 40-60 to with the CG otherwise it's even. He loses 40-60 to / and 20-80 to . Oh and is 40-60 or 30-70. I hate this matchup the most.

 

[infiniteV115]

In theory I'd be behind making a 9th tier list, but realistically we probably won't have a good amount of voters who know what they're talking about, let alone voters at all.

 

[Shaya]

Honestly I don't think any tier list changes need to be made in terms of positions, but perhaps alterations to tier groupings would be good.

S for MK/ICs
go from there.

The main conundrum I have is that I don't think Brawl has had it's meta develop further noticeably for a long time, but rather just players still maintaining their skills well over time and caring when a tournament opportunity arises. If a tier was to be made to represent the "current meta" I would likely feel it's inaccurate (heck someone saying Snake should go up is all I need see to have my fear justified )

 

[ぱみゅ]

A list of the current meta would have like 15 characters.


Joking aside, the fact the game stopped being played by like 90% of the people seriously hurt any chances for it to actually change/develop. So I think the list would remain the same, at least metagame-wise. Any further change would be just personal interpretations of matchups, matchup weighting, and tournament results.

 

[Sinister Slush]

If the tier list gets updated, it'd be a nice excuse to add others (and me :^) ) into the bbr finally.
Though honestly, think there's no need to update it. MU chart v3 barely had a handful of people actually doing discussions so dunno how many people in the bbr even is alive to discuss for a week or two for changes in the tier list.

 

[Teran]

Are the BBR the Sm4ah BR as well? Wat

 

[Blueberry Kong]

He loses 40-60 to

Seagull right before he's about to play Shimitake: "This is like a 0-100 matchup"

Honestly I don't think any tier list changes need to be made in terms of positions, but perhaps alterations to tier groupings would be good.

S for MK/ICs
go from there.

The main conundrum I have is that I don't think Brawl has had it's meta develop further noticeably for a long time, but rather just players still maintaining their skills well over time and caring when a tournament opportunity arises. If a tier was to be made to represent the "current meta" I would likely feel it's inaccurate (heck someone saying Snake should go up is all I need see to have my fear justified )

I really agree with this. I honestly believe Brawl is a very balanced game and the tiers should solely be |S|A|B|C|F|

 

[-LzR-]

If you want Brawl back get rid of MK and add a couple stages to keep IC in check. With that it's an amazing game that is obviously superior Smash 4.

 

[Shaya]

brawl with ice climbers in it is dead to me. So, nah, it isn't better than smash 4.

 

[-LzR-]

Brawl with Ice Climbers with only their best stages is lame as hell. Brawl without MK where we could have Rainbow Ride or Brinstar back, Delfino, Frigate and such is acceptable.

 

[Shaya]

Not necessarily. And Ice Climbers doing what ICs do anywhere is bad enough.

They're still disgustingly over bearing for two matches per set.

 

[-LzR-]

IF ICs are too much just get rid of them too. At this point all that matters is that we get people playing so we might as well do everything that's necessary.

 

[Shaya]

I know I could've saved us the effort by just saying ban ICs too, but you had to say 'keep ics in check'.

 

[Brinzy]

Petty comment:

even if we banned MK and ICs, the moment I trip is the moment I flip.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

If MK, ICs, and tripping were never in the game - Brawl would still be played to this day... Kind of sad :/

I don't even think MK or ICs are worth banning. I do not think they're *that* good that they should be banned. They are both very stoppable imo with a lot of characters. But if that's the only way to save the game then so be it... But it's much too late at this point.

 

[-LzR-]

Tripping is that thing everyone loves to mention that doesn't really mean **** in reality. MK on the other hand is almost solely responsible for making people move on to Melee/Smash4. MK is the most broken thing I've ever seen in a competitively played fighting game.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

Tripping is that thing everyone loves to mention that doesn't really mean **** in reality. MK on the other hand is almost solely responsible for making people move on to Melee/Smash4. MK is the most broken thing I've ever seen in a competitively played fighting game.

You're right, just Melee players and such always bring up tripping. I really don't think MK is that OP... I think everyone's just bad.

 

[Brinzy]

You're right, just Melee players and such always bring up tripping. I really don't think MK is that OP... I think everyone's just bad.

Years ago, I sounded like you. I didn't make this exact statement, but I did defend MK and said that he would be good for the game.

I regret every moment of it.

MK ruined this game, horribly.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

Years ago, I sounded like you. I didn't make this exact statement, but I did defend MK and said that he would be good for the game.

I regret every moment of it.

MK ruined this game, horribly.

He may have ruined the game by making it slow, and campy, but I don't think he is as OP as people say he is.

 

[BlueXenon]

MK is OP because he has the most versatile moveset in the game, incredible option coverage, and the best frame data. This also makes him a very interesting character to watch at top level play.

 

[-LzR-]

The case with MK isn't even a matter of opinion. If you just look at the character, it's framedata, hitboxes and **** you cannot deny he is OP as all ****.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't really know why people get that flustered with tripping. It's a 1/100 chance YOU yourself take when opting to dash.
That's why I choose to walk on most situations.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't really know why people get that flustered with tripping. It's a 1/100 chance YOU yourself take when opting to dash.
That's why I choose to walk on most situations.

Exactly. People who say you can't avoid tripping are incorrect. Tripping can be avoided if you don't dash. I even went through the effort of learning the tripless chaingrabs for ICs when I heard of them.
And for each time you get screwed by tripping you will get saved by it another time.

 

[Shaya]

would take random tripping over rage any day of the week~

 

[-LzR-]

would take random tripping over rage any day of the week~

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'd gladly get tripping in Smash 4 if we got rid of rage, or even ledgetrumping. I'm still not sure which is worse.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'd gladly get tripping in Smash 4 if we got rid of rage, or even ledgetrumping. I'm still not sure which is worse.

I personally think that both smash 4 and brawl are very different competitive games and are not that comparable.
What people don't realize is you can actually TECH a trip. I've done it before. However The rage mechanic in smash 4 only makes a big difference if the character gets above the high kill percents. And the mechanic seems to mostly be there to give a heavy character a better chance against a character that can combo him to death. If rage wasn't in the game, DK would have vitually no chance against luigi. The tripping mechanic and rage mechanic are both factors that slightly change up the game. But for the rage mechanic you actually know its there and can keep it from being to much of a problem by actually not going for damage but being extremely patient for a kill. As for ledge trumping, you can avoid it before it even happens it the first place.

 

[-LzR-]

Same argument can be said for tripping. You know it can happen by inputting a dash so you can just never dash.
As for ledge trumping I don't mean the dumb thing of ledge trumping someone and hitting them with a Bair. I mean the whole ledge mechanic itself is beyond ********.
As weird as it sounds I miss edgehogging and I actually feel good when I get edgehogged in other Smash games now that it's gone in Smash4. I always appreciated edgehogging as an edgeguarding method, but only now I realize how much I liked it.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Same argument can be said for tripping. You know it can happen by inputting a dash so you can just never dash.
As for ledge trumping I don't mean the dumb thing of ledge trumping someone and hitting them with a Bair. I mean the whole ledge mechanic itself is beyond ********.
As weird as it sounds I miss edgehogging and I actually feel good when I get edgehogged in other Smash games now that it's gone in Smash4. I always appreciated edgehogging as an edgeguarding method, but only now I realize how much I liked it.

Hey I never said anything against tripping.
Ledge trumping was put in smash 4 so that the randomness of edge hogging would be removed. (say your both trying to recover but one grabs it first)

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Hey I never said anything against tripping.
Ledge trumping was put in smash 4 so that the randomness of edge hogging would be removed. (say your both trying to recover but one grabs it first)

tha- that's not random. If you get there first you grab it first. No randomness involved.

 

[MonkeyArms]

tha- that's not random. If you get there first you grab it first. No randomness involved.

Its kinda random when I should grab the ledge at the same time as my opponent

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Its kinda random when I should grab the ledge at the same time as my opponent

If it's a tie, port priority wins out. It's never random.