Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Xyro77]

also, the Rob vs Samus icon is not listed under Robs spread.

LMAO true. hes a super new gen with very little exp.

 

[Ghostbone]

Pika MK is even

No

Oli MK should be even

Ruleset dependent

ICs MK should be even

Ruleset dependent

They're about even on FD/SV/maybe Lylat and Yoshi's (Though I see IC's mess up grabs more often there so that's dubious), but other stages are MK's favour for sure
(assuming LGL and scrooging rules)

 

[jeck95]

Pika MK even? More like Esam MK even

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This was listed in the previous 2.0 version as well and partially explained by ESAM as well.

Seeing how Pikachu is now the only character with an even matchup against Meta Knight, we felt like we should explain this. There will be two parts to this explanation: the matchup itself and then a comparison with other contenders for an even matchup against MK.

Pikachu vs MK is basically all RPS situations. MK has the slight edge on spacing and safety, but Pikachu gets much more rewards per hit because of chaingrabs and followups. Pikachu's projectile also helps, because it makes MK initiate. Couple this with the fact that Pikachu is an amazing punisher and you get a pretty good situation for Pikachu. MK's safety is his main attribute in this MU, and it is mostly for pokes more than camping. Pikachu's uair is a really good move to combat dair camping, and planking is rendered semi-useless with T-jolts. MK's safety translates to his kill game. D-smash is pretty safe and at max range it is near impossible to punish without a power shield. However, it won't kill consistently until the 130% range while Pikachu's more punishable kill moves will take a stock closer to 105-110% (F-smash or u-tilt/u-smash thunder).

Now, there are 2-3 other candidates that could be even with MK, and those are Diddy, Falco, and Fox. A huge benefit that Pikachu has over them is the fact that he doesn't get gimped. All of the other three are in REALLY bad situations if they are ever off-stage, while Pikachu is pretty safe. Diddy has better ground control than all, and Fox/Falco can camp better than Diddy/Pikachu. Pikachu has similar abilities, but is outshined. The gimping is a huge factor because there is honestly more of a chance of Pikachu getting a fluke kill due to MK having bad DI than getting gimped. Pikachu also doesn't suffer from stages like the other three, since he can definitely handle RC, Delfino, and Frigate (although Pikachu players will always ban Brinstar).

All the points brought up here I agree with for why other characters do not have even match-ups with MK while Pikachu maintains one.

 

[WindMajor]

Guys it's over!

IT'S OVERRRRR!

 

[Okuser]

Pikachu vs MK is definitely even. pika has everything he needs to go even.

 

[DLA]

Pikachu vs MK is indeed like rock paper scissors... if the Pikachu player is missing all of his fingers.

 

[Lukingordex]

Lucas' chart is almost perfect,except for Jiggly and Link,they should have a disadvantage of -2 imo.

 

[Djent]

I think Pika +2 vs. Snake is just as big an injustice as MK @ 0, honestly.

ESAM loses sets to MVD on occasion, and ****in' MikeRay took him to game 3 at WHOBO. Those players are nowhere near his caliber, yet they've had him on the ropes with a character that's supposed to lose as horribly as Falco does vs. ICs? **** outta here - put that **** back to +1!

Also, Peach +1 vs. Pika.
Illmatic > ESAM & KPrime
Slayerz & Silly Kyle > Z
This matchup literally never looks good.

Silly biased Pikachus.
Though I'm happy to see G&W put at even.
And Marth back at -1 ... thank you Mr. R!!!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Pika MK is even

Oli MK should be even

ICs MK should be even

NOBODY GOES EVEN WITH THE BAT.

Check out the first game of this set; www.youtube.com/watch?v=poKaItNc6IU
Notice how Pikachu had all of his options systematically stripped from him due to MK having a distinct advantage in the match-up? Me too.

 

[MVD]

[quoteok ="Okuser, post: 15665612, member: 187454"]lol @
Snake vs Falco at 0 and
Snake vs Marth at 0

both -1's for snake[/quote]
i completely overlooked falco, agreed with that

 

[MVD]

also pika snake is -2 mike ray got 3 stocked when he lost iirc, ally never beats his pika, he 3 stocks almost every snake, I've just gotten better, I would not say I'm nowhere near his level, I've stepped it up quite a lot lately

 

[Donkeykong98123]

I agree, I can't see the MU being -3

ALSO:
Meta Knight/Pikachu IS NOT EVEN
Meta Knight/Donkey Kong IS WORSE THAN -2
Meta Knight/Jigglypuff IS HER WORST MATCH-UP BY FAR

Meta Knight/Donkey Kong is right, it's about -2. It's definitely no worse.

 

[AtneyB]

Pikachu vs MK is indeed like rock paper scissors... if the Pikachu player is missing all of his fingers.

I had to log on to say this made my day.

I think Pika +2 vs. Snake is just as big an injustice as MK @ 0, honestly.
Also, Peach +1 vs. Pika.

This.

 

[Rizen]

Lucas vs Link is not a +/-2.

Overall the chart looks good. I could nitpick several minor changes from personal opinion (like everyone else) but it's good.
As long as people actually know MUs and don't say '__________ loses because they are a bad character'.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-jNIo5qH4
Best DK in the world losing to a Meta Knight who has almost no idea how to play the match-up.

EDIT: Okay "almost no idea" is a little crude, but the fact that 90% of his tornadoes weren't his best option in the situation - but still worked half the time anyway - says a lot about the MU.

 

[BlueXenon]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-jNIo5qH4
Best DK in the world losing to a Meta Knight who has almost no idea how to play the match-up.

EDIT: Okay "almost no idea" is a little crude, but the fact that 90% of his tornadoes weren't his best option in the situation - but still worked half the time anyway - says a lot about the MU.

Will sd'd his first stock when he could have lived a lot longer.

 

[fkacyan]

The asspain about MK, to this day, is hysterical.

Absolutely hysterical.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

A mistake is a mistake. JBand did a random ass up-b and died to a punch at 68% on the second stock.

The point isn't just the result of a single match - it's what we can gleam about the match-up from it. JBand didn't know what he was doing; he was afraid of options that don't exist (this was the reason for Will's almost comeback), he approached neutral DK with Nado almost every single time he got an opportunity (which got him nowhere half the time, and punished the other half) and he got hit by janky **** under pressure because he's not used to the situation.

On the other hand, Will breathes that match-up.

And he still lost.

 

[Dekillsage]

People STILL think Snake vs MK is -1? That MU is -2 at best for my mans

Snake vs D3 is 0
vs Falco is -1
Vs Wario is +1

 

[Ghostbone]

People STILL think Snake vs MK is -1? That MU is -2 at best for my mans

Snake is one of the best characters at dealing with MK (I could list all the things he can do and stuff he can punish vs MK that other characters can't, but it would take a while...), I don't see how you can say it's -2.

I think Pika +2 vs. Snake is just as big an injustice as MK @ 0, honestly.

Also, Peach +1 vs. Pika.

Both of these things are true.

 

[TM_icecream]

Me and Okuser are the only people in this thread who even play MK lol and we agree.

Keep arguing washed up low tier mains. MK is not that bad.

Xyro 3 years of brawl is the majority of brawls life AKA I have experience

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've got a good MK lol, and I play against a good DK regularly.

 

[FredFuchs]

i also always felt marth won against olimar. but seeing how olimars win the mu more often, i can understand how a 0 was warrented for the mu, but i still don't know the theory behind it.

 

[Rizen]

Me and Okuser are the only people in this thread who even play MK lol and we agree.

There are a lot of MK players in here.

 

[TM_icecream]

There are a few free pocket MKs. That's it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've seen your MK man, it's pretty damn free

And you don't even hide it in your pocket

 

[infiniteV115]

Pikachu vs MK is indeed like rock paper scissors... if the Pikachu player is missing all of his fingers.

Yeah but rock is super effective on flying











































































































































































































































































































































And so is electric

 

[TM_icecream]

I would literally never lose a tourney in your free country grim lmao
And that includes nationals

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I would literally never lose a tourney in your free country grim lmao
And that includes nationals

Is this you?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

"Pikachu Metaknight is even"
-CT Zero

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You said it was MK's favour after Anti wrecked you hahaha

Anyway, if it is even, it's definitely not his only even match-up. You'd have to have Ice Climbers at least in that boat as well.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ok cool, and then I got better at it and went even with him in MMs and Tournament, I played Zero in tournament and went even, I play M2K and pretty much go even (he wins the sets, though), and I only played Nairo at SKTAR so...yeah.

 

[OverLade]

Zero lives in Chile with zero pikachu players. I definitely BOPPED ESAM 1 month ago and me and him aren't in the same skill bracket. I just actually know the matchup well. I think it's +2 for MK even.

Also, Snake pika is even, there's just no snake player of even skill to ESAM that knows the matchup as well as ESAM knows the Pika matchup.

Snake marth is -1 snake. Snake ZSS is +1 snake. Snake TL is even.

Falco Wario is +1 falco.

Ugh, I could go on. But matchup charts tend to be fraught with bias and failsauce anyway. I need to come back to the back room -_-

 

[Ghostbone]

I don't mind Pikachu being +0 to MK that much
But he does not fare better than Olimar or ICs do, they should all be +0 before Pika's ever considered to be.

 

[TM_icecream]

Is this you?

Playing a friendly at 2 am with my brother whom I've played nearly every day for 5 years?
Ya that was me

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ESAM, Pikachu is walled out by MK's spacing. You must realize this, what could you have possibly done to ZeRo when he was playing on point and keeping you out? Nada. You only beat him because he's too aggressive hahaha

You get past the SLIGHT disadvantage because you're amazing at the game and you dress like a radical teenager from the 90s w/ matching Pikachu bandana and a side order of egotism (all of those things are factors in your skill), but it's -1 dude; you get hard punishes (just like... Olimar, ICs, Snake, Falco, Diddy Kong, Fox, Zero Suit Samus, etc.. etc...) on him, but Pika's spacing game vs. MK isn't any better than those characters and the only thing Pika brings to the table is that MK doesn't punish him as hard (that's not enough for it to be even).

Of course it doesn't matter what I say because you're the best Pikachu in the world and I'm a nobody, but I can take solace in the fact that I'm right

Playing a friendly at 2 am with my brother whom I've played nearly every day for 5 years?

Ya that was me

This one is you too, I assume?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, it's been six months. Maybe you've stopped approaching with glide attack and learnt how to short hop consistently since these videos.

 

[Osennecho]

I think ICs do better vs MK then Pika, but Pika does better then Olimar. Anyways for the most part this tier list is pretty solid IMO. A couple little things here and there I disagree with especially for some lower tier characters, but for the most part I can't complain especially since some match ups are so borderline and or stage set dependent.

 

[TM_icecream]

I mix full hops and short hops against tall characters.

But yeah that was December of last year lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah. That's what my MK looked like 12-18 months ago, and I don't main him XD

You're just going to have to come to grips with the fact that you can't beat an entire continent