Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[SoulPech]

what if marth just doesn't approach and punishes all of her inferior approach options with his amazing zoning capability combined with a far better grab game and good ol' DB and DS? if it works against wario, the most mobile character in the game air wise who is also an incredibly heavy character, why wouldn't work on puff who is the 2nd most mobile air wise and is also the lightest character in the game?

That's where you bait moves and change your gameplay. For example, I just throw out b-airs and Marth will punish it. I jump to fake a bair, Marth throws out a move, then I punish it by doing a Bair, Pound, grab, w/e is available. TBH, I never played a Marth that approached, so I've no problem with waiting. . Also, If Marth does a Low Fair, Puff can perfect shield and grab. If near the ledge, throw off and try to gimp.

 

[SoulPech]

Can air release into Uair? I know can, which is a disgustingly early kill.

afaik, it doesn't work. Kel tries to do it on me, but he could never land it. also played against Raziek in some dubs and other Marths and never got hit by it.

 

[smashkng]

I don't think Puff can shield grab if the Fair is well spaced. I also don't see how Marth wouldn't be able to juggle Jigglypuff, when she doesn't have good moves from above and her fall speed is extremely slow.

Doesn't punish as hard in Melee? I think her punishing in Brawl has a really bad reward (little damage and not much follow-ups) while when Marth punishes he can either deal 15-20% damage from a DB (a chance of juggle set up is often available too), deal 13% damage from a DS (which also kills at high %s) or set up frame traps from a grab.

I haven't played any Puffs as Marth, but it seems like Puff only has a chance if she somehow gets a lead, because Marth, walls her extremely well (if he can shut down almost every approach Wario has, then he can also definitely wall Jiggs too), though that seems to be very hard for her because Marth punishes harder and it's easier for Marth to punish Jiggs than viceversa.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I recently beat a pretty good wario from my region with jigglypuff right after he beat my main (ness) this is more evidence for jiggs needing to move up in the tier list, maybe the bbr should get on that

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I said she punishes harder in melee. smashkng if you think her punishment game vs. Marth is bad you don't understand the MU well enough to comment

he can't juggle her because she is so mobile in the air vertically (upwards, due to multiple jumps) and horizontally.

Puff has more range than Wario

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I recently beat a pretty good wario from my region with jigglypuff right after he beat my main (ness) this is more evidence for jiggs needing to move up in the tier list, maybe the bbr should get on that

Our region has a Wario player?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Any tippers completely screw up Jiggs in general. The only way to get around his spacing tools is in a diagonal direction after he swings his sword. I also know pound can trade with Marth's Fair (I think it's anywhere from Frame 2-4...I don't remember). Uair is just easy to dodge or avoid the tipper.

Puff is such a great character.

The frame 4 hitbox starts at the back of his head. It is not until frame 8-ish when he puts it in front of him.


and btw, lmao, Gheb posted and nobody noticed.

 

[Espy Rose]

I noticed but didn't say anything. It's pretty clear that Gheb is nothing but a yellow-bellied coward.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I recently beat a pretty good wario from my region with jigglypuff right after he beat my main (ness) this is more evidence for jiggs needing to move up in the tier list, maybe the bbr should get on that

That's because Puff is fairly simple to use.

Gheb tell us about Mewtwo.

 

[pidgezero_one]

no it's because puff is godlike

 

[RaptorTEC]

Only when she has her gardener hat on.

 

[Sunnysunny]

She's weak in brawl because she lost her green headband.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

She's weak in brawl because she lost her green headband.

And her crown

 

[Sunnysunny]

A pokemons strength is determined by what sweet swag they get to wear in this game.

Lucario would probably be top tier with a scarf. No joke.

 

[zmx]

I recently beat a pretty good wario from my region with jigglypuff right after he beat my main (ness) this is more evidence for jiggs needing to move up in the tier list, maybe the bbr should get on that

A pretty good Wario that loses to Puff? I don't recall our region having any particularly good Warios.

 

[Iota]

Lol at people taking pidge seriously.

CF is no longer top tier because his scarf contains his awesome. Trufax.

 

[SoulPech]

The frame 4 hitbox starts at the back of his head. It is not until frame 8-ish when he puts it in front of him.


and btw, lmao, Gheb posted and nobody noticed.

Puff is a bad character, lol.
I dont remember the frame data, so thanks for putting it out there. If that's the case, I think it's like frame 9-10 where it's a little below him and you punish.


yes, I did notice gheb posting, but I didn't want to say anything

 

[smashkng]

Marth's Fair hits between frames 4 and 8. On frame 4 it hits right above him, on frame 5 or 6 it hits in the middle height of Marth and on frame 8 it hits below Marth.

 

[zmx]

Also why are we discussing Puff's matchups in the first place.

We should discuss the only matchup that matters in 2013.

MK vs MK.

 

[Iota]

Because we want to discuss pointless MUs. Also:

Puff has more range than Wario

I'd like to see some hitbox bubbles before I subscribe to that. I'm fairly certain Jigglypuff doesn't have more overall range.

 

[Z'zgashi]

A pokemons strength is determined by what sweet swag they get to wear in this game.

Lucario would probably be top tier with a scarf. No joke.

*looks at your avatar*

I ****ing love you Sunny <3

 

[Shugo-Chan]

Wolf vs Falco is definitely -2 and one of the main reasons why I stopped maining him. Falco gets a 50% stock lead every stock and if he lands a single hit, he could just sit back and wait for you to approach. If the Falco is smart, he won't try to force a kill which means you lose out on a lot of free damage. Falco can also just continue to wait til the kill just comes to him.

You've got to be kidding me lol

 

[Juushichi]

Shuggy, clearly a Diddy main from the WC knows all about Falco vs Wolf.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Lol at people taking pidge seriously.

That's not very nice.

 

[Iota]

Not very nice for me to laugh at them or not vey nice to automatically think you're not serious?

 

[zmx]

Not very nice for me to laugh at them or not vey nice to automatically think you're not serious?

I think she means you are not very nice in general.

Should be more nice like me.

 

[Iota]

You aren't very nice though zmx.

 

[Luco]

I log off, discussion is about how nice iota is (in the arena thread). I log back on, discussion is about how nice Iota is (here). o.O

Ness in mr. Saturn shirt then... too good.

And can someone link to gheb's post?

 

[PMC66]

Idk know much about using Wolf, but I feel like his nair is inferior to those of Fox (good sex kick) and Falco (wonderful multi-hit move that links into jab and a whole crapload of other things). Of course, that might not say much about Wolf:Falco.

actually Wolf's N-air is really good if you figure out how to use it, it can frame trap air dodges with the multi hit boxes.

N-air wise Wolf's probably is the least useful as for the most part it's pikachu's with less knockback, but the frame trap capacity for landings makes it pretty deadly. I'm a hardcore lover of wolf N-air <3.

Wolf V Falco is even will you all stop living in 2008...

 

[Luco]

Wouldn't some characters with a long AD and good mobility be able to deal with that though? Especially since the last frames of it don't even make you flinch?

 

[Shaya]

Marth's forward air is out frames 4-7. Not 4-8.

 

[ぱみゅ]

emphasis on 8-ISH

 

[Shugo-Chan]

Wolf V Falco is even will you all stop living in 2008...

^ This x10000

 

[Seagull Joe]

actually Wolf's N-air is really good if you figure out how to use it, it can frame trap air dodges with the multi hit boxes.

N-air wise Wolf's probably is the least useful as for the most part it's pikachu's with less knockback, but the frame trap capacity for landings makes it pretty deadly. I'm a hardcore lover of wolf N-air <3.

Wolf V Falco is even will you all stop living in 2008...

Probably the first time I agreed with PMC ever about anything.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Iota all I know is that if Marth ****s something up, Wario has a harder time punishing than Puff does. Its either speed, mobility or range; you decide.

 

[Iota]

It's speed. You have less lag on your moves by a good amount.

 

[Shaya]

Eh... stuff like super armor gives Wario an extra edge in punishment that Jiggly just doesn't have.

 

[Luco]

Eh... stuff like super armor gives Wario an extra edge in punishment that Jiggly just doesn't have.

What moves does Wario have that give him super armour, out of curiosity?

 

[Iota]

F-smash and full waft. Getting close enough to super armor a hit from Marth and then connect with the hitbox is tends to be pretty hard if he's spacing right unfortunately, so them having the super armor doesn't help much when punishing or getting a hit in against Marth.

 

[SoulPech]

I'd like to see some hitbox bubbles before I subscribe to that. I'm fairly certain Jigglypuff doesn't have more overall range.

you're right. Puff and wario are roughly even. If anything, wario has a slightly better range. Unfortunately, there are no bubbles for Puff, but comparing pictures shows that wario has a better range. makes sense to since wario uses his arm mostly for ground tilts

Tilts - Wario
Jab - Wario
Fsmash- Puff
DSmash- Puff
USmash- Puff
DAttack- Even (very close)
Nair - Wario
Fair - Puff
Bair - Wario
Uair - Wario
Dair - Wario