• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

Status
Not open for further replies.

RobinOnDrugs

Your Friendly Neighborhood Scavenger
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
1,319
I'm in the process of unlocking customs via target blast.

I'm actually using the sets here for all my customs!
 

Gitbox

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
6
im extremely glad this is being done, its such huge potential that shouldent be wasted. especially since (rather annoyingly) miis are so contreversial to some people
 

ParanoidDrone

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
4,335
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
k Jebaily now said that he will look out for other tourneys that start using custom moves. So if you guys got some positive examples of tourneys with custom moves, you should tweet them to him to convince him :) (@CEOJebaily)

If CEO does it, Evo will be much more inclined to allow them aswell. And if Evo allows it, every other tournament will too.
Whole tournaments or individual sets? Because this is a pretty good set featuring Palutena vs. Lucario with customs enabled. Another set, same players.
 

Ansou

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
506
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
NNID
Ansoulom
3DS FC
4897-5959-9210
It's quite important to note that, in most cases, defense and offense are not really specific to a move (as in no single move makes a character or game defensive or aggressive), but are rather results of a character's kit. It's very rare, for a custom move, or several custom moves at once, to change a character's over-all playstyle so drastically (Palutena being an outlier, due to Lightweight and Superspeed) as to reclassify their playstyle from one lean to another. It's important to market customs as what they are: both an additional layer to the meta-game knowledge of matchups and options, and an in-match way of tweaking characters to suit scenarios better.

There's no guarantee they'd make the game faster, or more aggressive, on the whole. But there is evidence suggesting that they make many characters more versatile or viable, and in a lot of cases, in ways these characters really need in order to keep up. There's some room for preference - to my knowledge none of these is objectively a pure upgrade, though many are subjectively vast improvements (such as Power Vision) when used skillfully and in appropriate doses. What that tends to indicate, especially with a lot of top picks wanting 0-1 customs in their arsenal, is that these moves do improve balance over-all, and offer more dynamic play.

The big hope for Online Tournament Mode is that there will be some way... ANY way to ensure (short of invitational and honor-bound player pools) that Custom Equipment is off while Custom Moves are on. While they're bound to the same system, there is always potential for a player to subtly (and unless they tweak things, untraceably) cheat on any online customs event.
I completely agree with this. I really think Custom Moves and Custom Equipment should be separate. It doesn't make sense as it is right now.

Also, about the debate on banning moves: I think the point of enabling Custom Moves should be to give characters more options, not limiting them. I do agree that some moves are really good, but that doesn't justify banning them. Even if Diddy or Sheik would still dominate the metagame after enabling custom moves (which is completely possible and quite likely), we should not ban moves because of that. We would just be suffocating the characters and make them be something they shouldn't. I also don't think that banning moves is the solution the game being defensively oriented. The game will in many ways be defensive and we won't change that by banning some moves. I might sound naive, but I'm all for having options and diversity.
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
I'm in the process of unlocking customs via target blast.

I'm actually using the sets here for all my customs!
On the DS? Just so you know, that's not among the fastest methods, but go for it if you really really enjoy target blast.
9.0 classic with home screen hack> trophy rush = Smash run > target blast > home run
 
Last edited:

HoMaLoN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
483
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
HoMaLoN
Super Smash Bros. 4 Making Mii: The True Power Behind Height and Weight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCrBg2ITVZU

Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U Making Mii: The True Power Behind Height and Weight
-Using Smash Bros for 3DS to explain some of the effects height and weight play on a Mii Fighter (Brawler)

-Movement Speed and Attacking Speed
-Jumping Heights
-Attacking Range


AND HAVE ONE THAT RELATES TO CUSTOMS ALSO


Smash 4 Customizations: Why Should They Be Allowed (Issues and Solutions)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5GjVIfr3xc

This is a video discussion my views on why customization (excluding equipment) should be allow for Wii U tournament play.

In this video, I try to make a couple of guesses on the issues that may be associated with customizations and the solutions to those issues.

The goal
Please feel free answer my question at the end of this video.

Here are the links for Datel Action Replay PowerSaves Pro below:

PowerSaves Pro - Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Action-Replay-P...

PowerSaves Pro - GameStop

http://www.gamestop.com/nintendo-3ds/...
 
Last edited:

DunnoBro

The Free-est
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
2,864
Location
College Park, MD
NNID
DunnoBro
I think it's too early to say for sure that the game needs to be more offense oriented in order to survive. The game is still new and I highly doubt the entire metagame has been figured out yet. Plus Brawl is apparently still alive, not cared for that much mind you but still alive since it was at APEX. I do agree however that customs will prolong 4's lifespan.
It's really not too early to say that, keeping the game the same speed as it is now but just helping balance will lead to it dying. Entertainment value is huge, end of story.

And no, brawl is dead. It being played at apex doesn't negate the fact it has no real competitive community anymore.

Like I said though, I never claimed moves needed to be banned yet. Just that we should be ready to if the game still proves unsatisfying somehow. Making it more offensive would be the next viable step to try.

On a lighter note, Apostle told me tonight that Xanadu's next Wii U Monthly will -definitely- have a customs side tournament to test things out and introduce it subtly to hopefully have it alongside their weekly tournaments in the future.

He's actually fond of the idea of equipment too, though I'm not so much in agreement with him on that...

Gonna be practicing for that customs tournament with boss and at the potential custom tournament at the UMD on Friday.
 

RobinOnDrugs

Your Friendly Neighborhood Scavenger
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
1,319
On the DS? Just so you know, that's not among the fastest methods, but go for it if you really really enjoy target blast.
9.0 classic with home screen hack> trophy rush = Smash run > target blast > home run
I'm unlocking everything on the Wii U version. I've pretty much been going through Target Blast, Classic Mode, and Crazy Orders in order to get them. As of now I have all the moves unlocked for Mario, Dr.Mario, Robin, Captain Falcon, and R.O.B.
 

Galespark

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
87
Location
Venezuela
NNID
Galespark
On a lighter note, Apostle told me tonight that Xanadu's next Wii U Monthly will -definitely- have a customs side tournament to test things out and introduce it subtly to hopefully have it alongside their weekly tournaments in the future.

He's actually fond of the idea of equipment too, though I'm not so much in agreement with him on that...

Gonna be practicing for that customs tournament with boss and at the potential custom tournament at the UMD on Friday.
Wow Customs at Xanadu? That's awesome, even if it is a side event for now. And maybe with equipment he meant a defined Smooth Lander set? Which would make it even better imo.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
It's really not too early to say that, keeping the game the same speed as it is now but just helping balance will lead to it dying. Entertainment value is huge, end of story.

And no, brawl is dead. It being played at apex doesn't negate the fact it has no real competitive community anymore.

Like I said though, I never claimed moves needed to be banned yet. Just that we should be ready to if the game still proves unsatisfying somehow. Making it more offensive would be the next viable step to try.

On a lighter note, Apostle told me tonight that Xanadu's next Wii U Monthly will -definitely- have a customs side tournament to test things out and introduce it subtly to hopefully have it alongside their weekly tournaments in the future.

He's actually fond of the idea of equipment too, though I'm not so much in agreement with him on that...

Gonna be practicing for that customs tournament with boss and at the potential custom tournament at the UMD on Friday.
Hopefully they give it some stream time. It's not much publicity if they run 'em as a side event and don't show people how it went.

On the subject of the moves themselves, Kong Cyclone has to be one of the best things to ever happen to DK.
 

DunnoBro

The Free-est
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
2,864
Location
College Park, MD
NNID
DunnoBro
Hopefully they give it some stream time. It's not much publicity if they run 'em as a side event and don't show people how it went.

On the subject of the moves themselves, Kong Cyclone has to be one of the best things to ever happen to DK.
No, it's definitely going to get stream time. Probably only the finals or boss's matches though. But they always stream the sides. They know customs are hype but understand they can't just force players to change.

You have to remember Gimr and his group are strong advocates of the new and untested. Before project M they pushed hard for brawl minus. Unfortunately, things fell apart when a backroom member got greedy and refused them the stream rights to a brawl minus tournament at Apex, and then he even failed to stream or properly run the tournament himself. After that things were rough between them and brawl- and they moved on to the more professional project M.

There was a decent scene for brawl minus back before PM a bit in md/va, and there's an ongoing joke among players from that era that "nintendo ripped off brawl minus" because many of sm4sh elements, especially customs are like brawl minus.

Falcon's utilt spikes, being able to tech ganon choke at the cost of better follow-ups for ganon...

As for customs, yoshi's timed egg, tink's horizontal upb, ganon's killing upb, giant falcon punch, easy but weak shoryuken luigi (downthrow upb was also a thing) are all similar to things now or once implements in brawl minus. And I know many players really enjoyed that ridiculous style of play.

One time chudat lost about $60 in money matches to junebug in brawl, then in his salt double or nothing'd it back in brawl minus. Boss also refused to play anything but brawl minus for a while.

Seagull joe, junebug, Kenny, many of the regions top players loved brawl minus and I honestly kind of doubt they're going to sleep on customs.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
No, it's definitely going to get stream time. Probably only the finals or boss's matches though. But they always stream the sides. They know customs are hype but understand they can't just force players to change.

You have to remember Gimr and his group are strong advocates of the new and untested. Before project M they pushed hard for brawl minus. Unfortunately, things fell apart when a backroom member got greedy and refused them the stream rights to a brawl minus tournament at Apex, and then he even failed to stream or properly run the tournament himself. After that things were rough between them and brawl- and they moved on to the more professional project M.

There was a decent scene for brawl minus back before PM a bit in md/va, and there's an ongoing joke among players from that era that "nintendo ripped off brawl minus" because many of sm4sh elements, especially customs are like brawl minus.

Falcon's utilt spikes, being able to tech ganon choke at the cost of better follow-ups for ganon...

As for customs, yoshi's timed egg, tink's horizontal upb, ganon's killing upb, giant falcon punch, easy but weak shoryuken luigi (downthrow upb was also a thing) are all similar to things now or once implements in brawl minus. And I know many players really enjoyed that ridiculous style of play.

One time chudat lost about $60 in money matches to junebug in brawl, then in his salt double or nothing'd it back in brawl minus. Boss also refused to play anything but brawl minus for a while.

Seagull joe, junebug, Kenny, many of the regions top players loved brawl minus and I honestly kind of doubt they're going to sleep on customs.
Yea, I enjoyed Minus as well. Didn't realize it had that big of a scene there, but that was also before I really got into spectating games on Twitch anyway.

I'll be looking forward to watching the customs rounds. I have a feeling I'll have a hard time going back to defaults afterwards.
 

freezy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
15
Whole tournaments or individual sets?
I meant whole tournaments, because Jebaily is mainly concerned regarding the logistics and he wants to see proof that other tourneys successfully incorporate custom moves. And since I was reading on the past pages that some regions already started using them in tournaments, those good examples should be tweeted to him and other TOs, so they see it is doable.

Well still it wouldn't hurt also sharing vids of exciting sets I guess.
 
Last edited:

EndlessRain

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
354
Location
Co. Dublin (Ireland)
NNID
TheBlindMan
3DS FC
1693-1682-5689
Get him talking to Apostle lol. Well, wait until after the side-event test-run thing at Xanadu, we'll have some concrete proof that it can be done then.
There's a couple tourneys around my area soon that might run customs. They are normally like 50 people max, but it should still be good to get it out there.
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
@ Amazing Ampharos Amazing Ampharos : It hadn't occured to me before, but those like Freddy who unlock all customs on Wii U instead of the DS can still help administrate an entire tournament as long as someone at the tournament brings Smash for 3ds with all characters unlocked. You can set up all the sets on that Wii, download them to the 3ds, then upload them to the Wii Us.

I think it might be a good idea to explicitly mention that in the OP.
 

ParanoidDrone

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
4,335
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
@ Amazing Ampharos Amazing Ampharos : It hadn't occured to me before, but those like Freddy who unlock all customs on Wii U instead of the DS can still help administrate an entire tournament as long as someone at the tournament brings Smash for 3ds with all characters unlocked. You can set up all the sets on that Wii, download them to the 3ds, then upload them to the Wii Us.

I think it might be a good idea to explicitly mention that in the OP.
Can you actually do that? I didn't think you could transfer an already-transferred set.
 

moofpi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
392
Location
Tennessee
NNID
moofpi
3DS FC
0473-8866-3506
So I know you could download 100% complete save files for Brawl on the Wii, or it was using an action replay sort of thing. Either way, I've heard people saying "Once we can just transfer a save file between Wii U's this won't be a problem." What are the chances this is actually doable on Wii U? I'm just worried that since a lot of save data is tied to your NNID that it's not just gonna copy and paste.

Whatever happens, I think our best bet (besides 3DS Custom Move Project) is either an exploit someone can share unlocking everything or the cheat code thing.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
So I know you could download 100% complete save files for Brawl on the Wii, or it was using an action replay sort of thing. Either way, I've heard people saying "Once we can just transfer a save file between Wii U's this won't be a problem." What are the chances this is actually doable on Wii U? I'm just worried that since a lot of save data is tied to your NNID that it's not just gonna copy and paste.

Whatever happens, I think our best bet (besides 3DS Custom Move Project) is either an exploit someone can share unlocking everything or the cheat code thing.
My testing reveals to me that amiibo store the presents they have to unlock on the amiibo itself (if you decline to save back to the amiibo that you received your gifts, you won't get them but will get the exact same gifts at another time). We already know amiibo are highly hackable and spoofable; we've seen videos of hackers using a fake amiibo to get Duck Hunt's amiibo character in-game (despite that particular amiibo obviously not existing as a physical object). In theory it should be possible to spoof an amiibo that has every custom move as a gift you can receive, and that's probably the most fertile vector since you don't have to screw with the Wii U's security just the fairly weak NFC security present in an amiibo (NFC security is horrible). This might be done via a fake amiibo or you might take a real amiibo and use some third party NFC device to tell it to receive every custom move that it might later give to a Wii U of your choice.

Unfortunately, I'm just not familiar with the tech of spoofing amiibos and the hackers who have done work on it haven't exactly posted much of anything in terms of technical details. I can't really progress on this beyond the concept phase which isn't helping anyone, and to be real, I'm not sure if I would ever be able to since I don't have those kinds of technical skills. This would just seem to be the general best attack vector if we really want to unlock them and I believe in the long run this happening is inevitable. For now though, I'm focusing on trying to promote them with the non-hacking stuff we have; I believe it's good enough for them to be legal in general.
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
So, about bowser jr, i have done some more experimenting with his customs and, well...

pretty much everything outside of Koopa Ejection is viable for him, and heavily dependant on the match-up... but he needs to have a set with Piercing cannon and Impatient Mechakoopa solely for Rosalina. Up-b1/2 and side-b 2/3 are all very viable in this matchup as they are in every match-up.

Though according to @ Thinkaman Thinkaman Using Side-b 3 pretty much locks you to Up-b1
 
Last edited:

Mr7u7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
4
NNID
Mr_7u7
3DS FC
4141-2089-6029
Can't you put save data on an external hard drive and then copy it to the wii u? That might be easier then hacking an amiibo :p Also i'm pretty sure amiibos have a cap on the amount of presents they can give because i own 8 and make then fight each other in 99 stock matches and everytime they give the same number of presents. This is fact though as i haven't tested it much.
 
Last edited:

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,535
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Thinkaman
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
Can't you put save data on an external hard drive and then copy it to the wii u?
I looked into this, and the WiiU only uses drives in a proprietary file system locked to the individual console. If we could crack it, it would still be unfeasible difficult to distribute.

Again, 3DS transfer is the One True Way. Unlocking moves on the consoles themselves is just a nice bonus.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
I looked into this, and the WiiU only uses drives in a proprietary file system locked to the individual console. If we could crack it, it would still be unfeasible difficult to distribute.

Again, 3DS transfer is the One True Way. Unlocking moves on the consoles themselves is just a nice bonus.
A particularly convenient bonus, I might add. Any console with the moves unlocked has a far easier time updating and changing movesets. But that takes a good deal longer than it takes to migrate things over. Still, maybe in the early days, what if TOs provided some sort of incentive for people to bring unlocked setups?
 

RobinOnDrugs

Your Friendly Neighborhood Scavenger
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
1,319
I'm considering ordering an action replay powersave so I can unlock all the moves for the 3DS. It should makes things much easier when it comes to obtaining moves.
 

[Deuce]

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Socal
It sucks that the main barrier to customs use is the grind to unlock them. Given time, more and more setups will have entire movesets unlocked. Problem is that the time factor is inversely related to the willingness to allow customs as time goes on and people get set in their ways.
 

DunnoBro

The Free-est
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
2,864
Location
College Park, MD
NNID
DunnoBro
Well, even with them unlocked there'd be an issue actually putting your own set(s) into the Wii U. To the point I think a standardized list like this will regardless be very good for logistics.

I also think a printable sheet for TOs with the sets numbers to set up on custom Wii Us would be ideal so people don't need to leave the character selection screen to choose their slot.

I'll work on it by the weekend if no one else does. It might also be helpful for data collection if we include space for people to state which set they chose, so we can gather statistics about what people use competitively.
 
Last edited:

[Deuce]

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Socal
Well, even with them unlocked there'd be an issue actually putting your own set(s) into the Wii U. To the point I think a standardized list like this will regardless be very good for logistics.

I also think a printable sheet for TOs with the sets numbers to set up on custom Wii Us would be ideal so people don't need to leave the character selection screen to choose their slot.

I'll work on it by the weekend if no one else does. It might also be helpful for data collection if we include space for people to state which set they chose, so we can gather statistics about what people use competitively.
Yeah, they could also upload a list of what sets will be used online or something so players can check it the day before and see if they'll need to bring their custom loadout the next day
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
If there are really entire regions without a fully unlocked smash DS copy, I will mail my full save copy to them for a new cartridge and then unlock that one for myself.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,187
The sooner we get widespread custom moves, the better...

It's also nice to hear people taking an interest in them tournament-wise.
 

thehard

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
1,067
NNID
Barbecutie
I'm on CT stream right now and literally everyone in chat is excited for customs/Miis, lol
 

JTTLogic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
3
Wait WHAT!? 2-1-2-2 (or was it 2-2-1-2? Whatever makes his down-special as 1) is not set for mii brawler!?! Dapuffster has been the closest person to date to beating ZeRo in tournament using this set (actually used 2-2-2-2 due to restrictions, but admittedly not his ideal), even closer than anyone at Apex (Mr. R and M2K took 1 game off of him, Dapuffster took 2).

This must be edited lol. They're good fights too, you should watch them.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
Wait WHAT!? 2-1-2-2 (or was it 2-2-1-2? Whatever makes his down-special as 1) is not set for mii brawler!?! Dapuffster has been the closest person to date to beating ZeRo in tournament using this set (actually used 2-2-2-2 due to restrictions, but admittedly not his ideal), even closer than anyone at Apex (Mr. R and M2K took 1 game off of him, Dapuffster took 2).

This must be edited lol. They're good fights too, you should watch them.
Got a link to those? I'd love to see 'em. I think the main draw of Down2 is the extra recovery it gives you, since everything else is short-ranged and puts you into freefall.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom