Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[EndlessRain]

Rock Hurl is just annoying to go up against... I find myself playing a lot more cautiously against 'Zards who use it, as I'm afraid of committing and just having it do nothing.

 

[RWB]

I'm not really a Zard main, but I've gotten serious use out of Rock Hurl. Having the opponent above you is really nice with Zard.

 

[Shog]

Yeah Rock Hurl might be great, but I kinda got used to Rock Smash timing Need to practice more with it, as juggling enemies above you with Charizard is really fun

 

[Rakurai]

I think 1112 ought to be one of Wario's standard sets.

The extra range on the Rose Scented Waft makes it ridiculously easy to use as a punish or edgeguard, and it still kills at around 100% if Wario's packing some rage.

Realistically, the only time you're not going to get hit by it is if you dodge or shield it, because the range is so massive that you'd have to mistime it really badly to not catch someone within its hitbox, whereas whiffed wafts aren't that uncommon with the other versions.

 

[Raijinken]

I think 1112 ought to be one of Wario's standard sets.

The extra range on the Rose Scented Waft makes it ridiculously easy to use as a punish or edgeguard, and it still kills at around 100% if Wario's packing some rage.

Realistically, the only time you're not going to get hit by it is if you dodge or shield it, because the range is so massive that you'd have to mistime it really badly to not catch someone within its hitbox, whereas whiffed wafts aren't that uncommon with the other versions.

I haven't had much chance to test it further, but I currently am leaning towards 1112 as my preferred Wario set.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Amazing Ampharos homestly those zelda sets are wrong. We've discovered and tested more about them and her best Side B is Dins Blaze and Up B is both Windfall and Wind.

We finalized that the zelda sets should be

Main sets:
1333
1313
1311
1233
Pocket Sets:
1231
1211
Default Sets:
1111
2222
3333

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The Zelda hive mind, I guess?

 

[Macchiato]

The Zelda hive mind, I guess?

Yep, at first glance Farore's windfall seems inferior but it kills at 30, works offstage, and easier to control in freefall.
Dins blaze is better because it isn't as predictable and is super strong.

 

[Raijinken]

@ Amazing Ampharos homestly those zelda sets are wrong. We've discovered and tested more about them and her best Side B is Dins Blaze and Up B is both Windfall and Wind.

We finalized that the zelda sets should be

Main sets:
1333
1313
1311
1233
Pocket Sets:
1231
1211
Default Sets:
1111
2222
3333

While I certainly approve of the swap to Din's Blaze, I still can't see why one would use Farore's Windfall. Perhaps because I value horizontal recovery so much, it seems like a very significant downgrade unless facing, say, Luigi or similar characters who have a tendency to go for vertical combat instead of horizontal.

 

[Macchiato]

While I certainly approve of the swap to Din's Blaze, I still can't see why one would use Farore's Windfall. Perhaps because I value horizontal recovery so much, it seems like a very significant downgrade unless facing, say, Luigi or similar characters who have a tendency to go for vertical combat instead of horizontal.

The horizontal recover is decent because when yew are in freefall, Zelda can move pretty horizontal. While in Farore's wind, yew can barely control her in freefall

 

[Raijinken]

The horizontal recover is decent because when yew are in freefall, Zelda can move pretty horizontal. While in Farore's wind, yew can barely control her in freefall

Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, the move itself can only go straight upward. Thus, unless you aim below and snap to the ledge, you're trying to recover in freefall, which is pretty much asking to be spiked or otherwise gimped.

It just seems like too much of a risk. I also may be misremembering, but isn't its kill potential entirely spike-based? It just doesn't seem useful onstage, and seems like too much of a read offstage. I'll give it a shot later today, but for now I'm just thinking it isn't worth it.

 

[Macchiato]

Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, the move itself can only go straight upward. Thus, unless you aim below and snap to the ledge, you're trying to recover in freefall, which is pretty much asking to be spiked or otherwise gimped.

It just seems like too much of a risk. I also may be misremembering, but isn't its kill potential entirely spike-based? It just doesn't seem useful onstage, and seems like too much of a read offstage. I'll give it a shot later today, but for now I'm just thinking it isn't worth it.

Yes but if they get hit by the second part of it trying to edgeguard, they will get gimped instead. Also kill at 30 and working in midair is worth it imo

 

[DunnoBro]

Rock hurl is amazing and exactly what charizard needs.

Being the lightest "big" character. (Lighter than mega man, wario, ike, and captain falcon. Much harder to combo characters) he gets combed hard and doesn't get to live to the percents the other bigs do. Default rock smash's offensive superiority simply does not outweight how much charizard needs the escape. This is also potentially a greater offensive option due to converting their combos into your own. The low knockback is actually pretty good.

@ Macchiato
I see no consensus on those sets or even Windfall being good in the Zelda boards...

 

[Kofu]

Rock hurl is amazing and exactly what charizard needs.

Being the lightest "big" character. (Lighter than mega man, wario, ike, and captain falcon. Much harder to combo characters) he gets combed hard and doesn't get to live to the percents the other bigs do. Default rock smash's offensive superiority simply does not outweight how much charizard needs the escape. This is also potentially a greater offensive option due to converting their combos into your own. The low knockback is actually pretty good.

@ Macchiato
I see no consensus on those sets or even Windfall being good in the Zelda boards...

Uh, Charizard is heavier than all the characters you listed and is heavier than Ganondorf as well.

 

[DunnoBro]

Uh, Charizard is heavier than all the characters you listed and is heavier than Ganondorf as well.

I thought so too, but unless the wiki is wrong (very well could be) that is not true.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

 

[Raijinken]

I thought so too, but unless the wiki is wrong (very well could be) that is not true.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

I'm guessing wrong because Captain Falcon and Ganondorf are certainly not the same weight. And I don't think I buy Megaman being that heavy, either.

This page http://www.ssbwiki.com/Weight contradicts the other directly on several ends, and seems more accurate to me.

Anyways, I've always enjoyed regular Rock Smash for the shield damage, but if Hurl approaches that or offers better utility (I know covering Zard's diagonal blindspot would be nice), then I'd say it's worth a shot.

 

[Kofu]

I thought so too, but unless the wiki is wrong (very well could be) that is not true.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

The wiki is wrong. Two possibilities: Charizard has a larger frame which means he hits the blastzone sooner, and/or his self-damaging Flare Blitz racks up damage making him die earlier. I don't know all the reasons why he would seem lighter. But Aerod- I mean, KuroganeHammer's list is a true weight list. It doesn't take into account fall speed or air speed.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm guessing wrong because Captain Falcon and Ganondorf are certainly not the same weight. And I don't think I buy Megaman being that heavy, either.

This page http://www.ssbwiki.com/Weight contradicts the other directly on several ends, and seems more accurate to me.

Anyways, I've always enjoyed regular Rock Smash for the shield damage, but if Hurl approaches that or offers better utility (I know covering Zard's diagonal blindspot would be nice), then I'd say it's worth a shot.

Hmm, that one does seem more accurate... Mostly with Bowser being at the top. Dedede being heaviest seems odd.

Wikis once again proving why I shouldn't use them as resources

 

[Raijinken]

Hmm, that one does seem more accurate... Mostly with Bowser being at the top. Dedede being heaviest seems odd.

Wikis once again proving why I shouldn't use them as resources

Rather, once again proving why they deserve both tighter QC guidelines and more dedicated content providers.

Also, Smashwiki's weight list is the same as Aerodome's.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato
I see no consensus on those sets or even Windfall being good in the Zelda boards...

http://youtu.be/xhbYTpIR1eE
http://youtu.be/U6KIPSSAZHk

Windfall has huge reward for a decent risk. Just watch these first sis

 

[hey_there]

http://youtu.be/xhbYTpIR1eE
http://youtu.be/U6KIPSSAZHk

Windfall has huge reward for a decent risk. Just watch these first sis

I'm pretty doubtful on Windfall's usability. The first clip is someone beating on what appears to be a level 3 CPU, which isn't convincing of anything, and the second clip is someone messing around with it in training mode. You say it kills at 30, but that's if you catch someone near the edge with it and they don't DI at all.

Are there any other videos with it being used in a real match? I think that might be more convincing. On paper it just seems terrible.

 

[DunnoBro]

http://youtu.be/xhbYTpIR1eE
http://youtu.be/U6KIPSSAZHk

Windfall has huge reward for a decent risk. Just watch these first sis

I never denied it was good, just that there's no consensus it is good by other Zeldas from what I can see in the Zelda Custom's Thread.

 

[WispBae]

I'm sorry if this has been asked already but is it viable to unlock custom moves on WiiU? If so, what's the easiset way to do so? I've been trying on the 3DS (with varying levels of success), but was thinking if it was easier on the WiiU, I might as well just have both to be on the safe side.

 

[Gunla]

I'm sorry if this has been asked already but is it viable to unlock custom moves on WiiU? If so, what's the easiset way to do so? I've been trying on the 3DS (with varying levels of success), but was thinking if it was easier on the WiiU, I might as well just have both to be on the safe side.

The quickest and easiest way is, if you have the parts you need on 3DS for a build, you can just transfer them.

My experience has yields that the best way to unlock custom moves using the Wii U version is usually via Crazy Orders with something like a Baseball Bat set or amiibo farming. On 3DS, All-Star guarantees certain items, but limited quantities; your best bet is either 6 customs per a Smash Run game (if you get all of them) or Classic on higher difficulties. Amiibo are coming to the 3DS rather soon, so I'll have to see which gets better results.

 

[WispBae]

The quickest and easiest way is, if you have the parts you need on 3DS for a build, you can just transfer them.

My experience has yields that the best way to unlock custom moves using the Wii U version is usually via Crazy Orders with something like a Baseball Bat set or amiibo farming. On 3DS, All-Star guarantees certain items, but limited quantities; your best bet is either 6 customs per a Smash Run game (if you get all of them) or Classic on higher difficulties. Amiibo are coming to the 3DS rather soon, so I'll have to see which gets better results.

But having them on 3DS doesn't unlock them on WiiU, yes? So lab it up on 3DS, then practices builds I like on WiiU?

 

[Gunla]

But having them on 3DS doesn't unlock them on WiiU, yes? So lab it up on 3DS, then practices builds I like on WiiU?

They do not unlock, that is correct. So yes, if you're wanting to test the builds on Wii U but have them on 3DS, you have to manually transfer them.

At the least, it's rather quick if you're moving from setup to setup or just wanting to transfer a lot at once.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

This isn't the best way necessarily, but it got it done for me within a couple of months without any need for serious grinding.

• Aim for the "Beat Classic with all characters on 7.0 or higher" challenge. If you're really worried you can tone the difficulty down a notch but the idea is repeated Classic runs, and the challenge happens to tie in nicely to that. The reason you want a high-ish difficulty is because you get better rewards that way. If you make a point of getting all the customization rewards on the roulette you can probably unlock half the custom specials by the time you finish this step. As an added bonus, you get lots of practice against Master Core minus Fortress if you care about the 8.0 and 9.0 challenges.
• The next step is All Star Mode. Again, the higher the difficulty the better. Unlike Classic, you keep all rewards you pick up even if you lose.
• If you get bored of Classic and/or All Star, or if you've already done them with everyone and are still missing about a quarter to a third of the custom specials, go to Crazy Orders. Give your favorite character some equipment. Home-Run Bat and Quick Batter are best since you can finish most scenarios in seconds flat. Any of Vampire, KO Healer, and Auto Healer help keep your health up. Risky Respawner works well since you only have one life to begin with. Pick series icons where the members are still missing a lot of customs collectively. If you want, use characters that have challenges associated with Crazy Orders like Rosalina, Mario, and Greninja.
• Once a character has only one or two moves left to find, take them back to All Star. Then head to Target Blast and select the same character. Check the targets and reset the challenge until you see a target with a green wrench. Complete the challenge and make sure to blow that target up. Keep repeating the challenge with the character until you get the last missing custom(s). Then take the next character to All Star, rinse and repeat. (This is by far the most tedious part.)

Other methods you may wish to explore:

• Smash Tour. Set it up, then set the gamepad down. It literally plays itself unless it throws a Home Run Contest challenge at you, in which case you just need to tap A to get it rolling again. Your character will do awful, but the rewards at the end have nothing to do with your performance.
• Amiibo. Set one up, train it to pick up items, and put it in a lengthy match against nothing but AI. Master Balls only, high frequency. This maximizes the chance of Mew appearing and dropping something nice.
• Trophy Rush. I've personally had horrid luck with this, but you may want to try it out. Good characters for it are Wario, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, and Palutena.

 

[Macchiato]

I never denied it was good, just that there's no consensus it is good by other Zeldas from what I can see in the Zelda Custom's Thread.

Actually the customs threads are pretty inactive and the same people post on it. Everything is in our social. We all agreed that dins blaze is better than flare. We also said that windfall is as good as wind its just preference

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Windfall seems pretty bad, especially considering how Nairo played around with Wind...

 

[DunnoBro]

Actually the customs threads are pretty inactive and the same people post on it. Everything is in our social. We all agreed that dins blaze is better than flare. We also said that windfall is as good as wind its just preference

I see it now, thanks.
And yea, I hope people actually try windfall before dismissing it. It's a pretty sneaky thing. The main draw of it is consistency, has a large starting hitbox both aerial and grounded, and has absurdly little landing lag. (Think Rosalina) On a stage with platforms, it's pretty free to use to follow-up.

I will say in matchups where landing/punishing is more important than pressure, or those where spiking isn't too helpful generally, the original is probably better.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I see it now, thanks.
And yea, I hope people actually try windfall before dismissing it. It's a pretty sneaky thing. The main draw of it is consistency, has a large starting hitbox both aerial and grounded, and has absurdly little landing lag. (Think Rosalina) On a stage with platforms, it's pretty free to use to follow-up.

I will say in matchups where landing/punishing is more important than pressure, or those where spiking isn't too helpful generally, the original is probably better.

I just like the flexibility of Farore's Wind. I'll probably rarely use Windfall for that reason alone.

 

[Raijinken]

I just like the flexibility of Farore's Wind. I'll probably rarely use Windfall for that reason alone.

Same here. Not a fan of any recovery that only covers one axis of movement.

 

[⑨ball]

Now that Apex is over I'd like to bump this in hopes of implementation into our tourneys.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'd like to throw in a vote for Din's Blaze as Totally-An-Actually-Okay-Move-(Still).

Also, I love love love Farore's Windfall, but............. I dunno man. Farore's Wind is pretty bananas.

 

[Raijinken]

I'd like to throw in a vote for Din's Blaze as Totally-An-Actually-Okay-Move-(Still).

Also, I love love love Farore's Windfall, but............. I dunno man. Farore's Wind is pretty bananas.

I also vote Din's Blaze now. Still dunno about Windfall, though. Tilting Wind into the ground for short-range reappearances is just so fun.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I also vote Din's Blaze now. Still dunno about Windfall, though. Tilting Wind into the ground for short-range reappearances is just so fun.

Garrus's "reach vs. flexibility" story comes to mind for some reason.

Personally I like the flexibility of Wind, it would take a lot for me to give up it's omnidirectional ability.

 

[EndlessRain]

I don't use Zelda, but I breathe a sigh of relief when I see one pick Windfall. Default is so stressful to deal with.

 

[Miidas]

Add 1131, 1231 or 1331 as a custom set for ROB. Ofc not all ofc them, but at least one imo, since base Gyro got less lag than fire gyro, and can be better than slippery gyro in some scenario's as well ^^

 

[Krysco]

So out of sheer boredom I decided to mess around with some customs. I have all of the custom sets listed on the OP on my Wii U and one of the characters I was messing around with was Samus, specifically her 2232 set. Turns out if you use Apex Screw Attack right before landing you can suffer landing lag with no hitbox, landing lag with no hitbox but a shockwave on the ground or landing lag with the 2% initial hitbox and the shockwave on the ground. Popped Sandbag in the air which makes sense since that's what the first hit is supposed to do but Samus will stay on the ground. It's not very useful, if anything it's a bad thing since it can't be used properly right before landing but I found it amusing. Reminds me of the quake thing Ganon had back in Brawl.

 

[moofpi]

Hey guys, I'm just jumping in here but I've been a big advocate of custom moves from the get go. It is what Smash 4 truly brings to the table as its own unique iteration of the Smash Bros series, and people denying their wide use is really stifling first impressions on the game.

Now with Apex behind us, I think the best path to take now is PUBLICITY. We gotta get custom moves out on the forefront for people to see the meta doesn't stop with Diddy, the game's just getting started.

I know there is a Gameplay Video thread in the Competitive section, but I never see ANY videos of character's matches with Custom Moves on, only showcases and such. I think a bold move would be to start a Custom Match Video thread showing players duking it out with custom moves and show just how they interact with vanilla and other characters using customs in practice. I think people seeing just how much they change the way you look at a character and have to approach the situation, the hype will build itself.

Remember, the main reason customs aren't a priority right now are because a lot of people just don't know a whole lot about them and think the vanilla game is as good as it's going to get. So break out those Custom Replays we saved with friends or those one in a million custom tournament sets! Let's show the people just how far Smash 4 has to go.