[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Darky Dee]

Dixie's been in Mario Spin Offs. That's all she really has going for her over K. Rool besides being a playable character. K. Rool is still actually important in the games he appears in though, Dixie not having had a role besides as a generic extra character since DKC3.

The fact that she is still there is a lot to say for itself though, also the fact that she was the star in DK3. She is part of the original cast before it got blown out of proportion with all the Kongs in DK64.

So if we go by that logic, Waluigi is more likely then Bowser Jr. due to having been playable more often and having been in spin-offs, despite him having no role whatsoever. Spin Offs mean nothing, do you want to see Waluigi playable?

Has Waluigi had his own title and been playable in more than just one game that is canon to the series' story? (I am aware that Mario's stories never really follow one another, but I don't ever remember him being playable in any Super Mario games, and I still consider him a "Super Mario" character than a "WarioWare" one at that since he got ditched by that series, which goes to prove how unimportant he is.)

If I remember correctly, X-Play even dubbed him as a WTF character in the Mario series. But back to the main point, Dixie Kong has a lot going for her compared to Bowser Jr. and Waluigi.

Sorry for editing-- I don't like double-posting if that's a problem.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Dixie is on a higher level then Waluigi of course, I was just showing a comparison to help nullify the spin off titles. If Dixie is so popular and important though, why was she replaced by Tiny for DK64? Seems rather random to me, if they actually cared about Dixie they'd of put her in the game. K. Rool has a perfect attendance record in all Donkey Kong games, and plays important roles in virtually all of them. Dixie's only notable roles are DKC2 and DKC3. Only reason Dixie shows up in the Mario Spin offs is because K. Rool being playable would be awkward if Bowser was still the main villian, as they're at least on even footing in their "evil" statuses.

 

[Darky Dee]

Dixie is on a higher level then Waluigi of course, I was just showing a comparison to help nullify the spin off titles. If Dixie is so popular and important though, why was she replaced by Tiny for DK64? Seems rather random to me, if they actually cared about Dixie they'd of put her in the game. K. Rool has a perfect attendance record in all Donkey Kong games, and plays important roles in virtually all of them. Dixie's only notable roles are DKC2 and DKC3. Only reason Dixie shows up in the Mario Spin offs is because K. Rool being playable would be awkward if Bowser was still the main villian, as they're at least on even footing in their "evil" statuses.

True, I am also vouching for King K. Rool to be in there too, but spin-off titles still acknowledge those characters-- but I don't know if they abandoned Dixie because they put Tiny Kong in there. Perhaps they just wanted to flesh out the family tree? There are probably numerous reasons why they didn't put her in there. Also, Diddy didn't have perfect attendance in all titles, or Donkey Kong for that matter.

I know this is just one title and probably irrelevant to most, but Dixie was in Mario 3-on-3 Hoops instead of Tiny, with Diddy and Donkey.

 

[MasterWarlord]

True, I am also vouching for King K. Rool to be in there too, but spin-off titles still acknowledge those characters-- but I don't know if they abandoned Dixie because they put Tiny Kong in there. Perhaps they just wanted to flesh out the family tree? There are probably numerous reasons why they didn't put her in there.

I know this is just one title and probably irrelevant to most, but Dixie was in Mario 3-on-3 Hoops instead of Tiny, with Diddy and Donkey.

She's been in many games without Tiny, namely that Mario baseball game and probably a few others. She's far from being in the meat of the Mario spin offs, but she's slowly becoming a regular member. To rob her of the 4th most important/popular DK character would be a terrible injustice. When rare copyrights their characters, they say, "Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, etc", literally, no other characters really mean much. Cranky might actually be more important then Dixie if he were playable, but he hasn't been and there's certainly no way he'll be in Smash.

I do wish Dixie would of been in DK64, that would really increase her chances/notability. Lanky and Chunky were actually somewhat unique, Tiny was generic and brought little new to the table.

Just be glad Dixie didn't bog down Diddy. That would've been terrible, a character who should've been in Melee being forced to tag team with a much more insignificant character? That'd be good for Dixie, but TERRIBLE for Diddy.

 

[smashbot226]

Well, I have to agree with the Diddy/Dixie part.

And DKC3 may not have UTTERLY sucked, but it paled in comparison to DKC 1 & 2.

I wish they came out with DKC4...

And Tiny- yes Tiny was a complete replacement. She's also in Diddy Kong Racing, I believe.

And K. Rool has been in more DK games than almost anyone else in that series, even DK.

FUNKY. No, the adjective.

 

[Darky Dee]

Yeah, but their unique enough to stand on their own. Lanky seemed more unique out of the bunch, mainly because he was the only orangutan out of the group, but only one "star" opportunity. But he still seems insignificant to the series since he's only made four appearances, playable twice, and one of those playable opportunities, he was a secret character.

His debut also was really sad, because he was introduced with more than half the cast being entirely new.

 

[smashbot226]

Yeah, but their unique enough to stand on their own. Lanky seemed more unique out of the bunch, mainly because he was the only orangutan out of the group, but only one title. But he still seems insignificant to the series since he's only made four appearances, playable twice, and one of those playable opportunities, he was unlockable.

His debut also was really sad, because he was introduced with more than half the cast being entirely new.

He's still awesome. Chunky Kong failed though.

Lanky has/can:

1. No style.

2. No grace.

3. A funny face.

4. Do a handstand when he needs to.

5. Stretch his arms out, just for you.

6. Inflate himself just like a balloon.

7. This crazy Kong just digs this tune.

 

[Darky Dee]

He's still awesome. Chunky Kong failed though.

Word-- Donkey Kong was already the 'buff' one, Chunky was over-kill. And Lanky was awesome, but I think his chances of being in there are zero-to-none. He contributed very little to the franchise.

So I think we agreed on Dixie and King. K. Rool being eligible candidates.

I don't know what else to write, Krystal?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Chunky was somewhat generic, being the typical stupid, strong, slow guy. Still, he's a good few notches above Tiny, due to being a coward/girly (See the DK64 intro, see his musical instrument.). He also got to deal the final blow to K. Rool.

It's a shame they still use Tiny in the DK spin offs, but not Chunky. Since Rare left the series, the only use Chunky's ever got was as a sticker in SSBB.

Ideal DK representation for SSB4:

Characters:
DK
Diddy
K. Rool

Alt costumes:
Funky Kong (Give DK shades, a bandana, and a t-shirt/jeans. Instant Funky Kong.)
Dixie Kong (She would have to deal with not using her hair for her attacks.)
Kaptain K. Rool

Assist Trophies:
Cranky Kong (Mr. Resetii clone with different dialouge)
Lanky Kong (Uses his handstand running abilities)
Rambi (Stampedes accross the stage)

Stages:
Gangplank Galleon
Bramble Blast (Solely for the music, it's worthy)

Past Stages:
Jungle Japes
Kongo Jungle (N64)

 

[Darky Dee]

Characters:
DK
Diddy
K. Rool

No Dixie makes me sad. >:

GIVE THE DONKEY KONG SERIES JUSTICE! MORE REPS!!!

 

[princesspeachluver13]

*slap* NO!!!

also, prove how SQ cant be playable w/o being Peach clone
Same with Rosi

boredness is what i feel 100% of the time 90%o the time

 

[MasterWarlord]

DK deserves 4 reps more then Starfox, but Starfox would probably get it over DK due to popularity for the sex appeal known as Krystal.

But neither are getting 4 reps before Mario, Pokemon and Zelda all get 5, which isn't going to happen any time soon. I don't particularly see both the kremling king and dixie making it to SSB4. I'd be appalled if they wern't both in SSB5, but that's a long ways off. . .Hell, I'll

Spoiler

probably not

have a wife and kids by the time SSB4 comes out.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

if 4 more DK reps is what you want, youll have to take out Fox, Falco, wolf, and 3 other characters(namely, G&W, IC, and Olimar)

 

[Darky Dee]

*slap* NO!!!

also, prove how SQ cant be playable w/o being Peach clone
Same with Rosi

The sad thing is that I have no clue to who those initials refer to. Probably means she's pretty insignificant to the franchsie, and not eligible. >:

Rosalina has magick going for her with a wand, and levitation, and a bigger crown, though I think a Peach color swap would do fine instead.

I think Donkey Kong would get at least one more representative next time-- to King K. Rool. I think it just won't surpass Mario's count, matching it seems feasible.

KIRBY GOT TWOOO THIS TIME, THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

My issue with Krystal is that her possible 'original' move set is pretty outdated. Her staff would be neat from Dinosaur Planet, but now I can't help but think they're going to update her into the space crew persona and rob her of her staff abilities and make her similar, or like the rest of the Star Fox representatives.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

wow...*facepalm* have you ever played Paper Mario The 1000 year door? she was the final boss. also, she was probably the craziest hctib in Mario History. just look her up on mariowiki.com. by the way, she's shadow queen. *facepalms again*

 

[Chief Mendez]

DK deserves 4 reps more then Starfox

This I don't agree with. Sure, Starfox has only had Star Fox, SF64, Adventures, Assault, and Command...but nearly all of those games (everything but Adventures) are AAA class-acts.

On the other hand, Donkey Kong has (...well, he's got a bunch of games. But for the sake of argument, I won't include stuff that features Mario, or is a decided spin-off) the Country games, DK64, Jungle Beat, and KoS/JC.

Now, personally the only one of those I think is worth anyone's time is Jungle Beat, but apparently nobody else feels the same way. So the DKC games and Jungle Beat, and (maaaaaaaaaaybe) DK64.

I'd...say they're about even, wouldn't you?

NOW'S THE FUN (opinionated) PART

What's makes Starfox different from Donkey Kong is that most of it's characters have been around through more than one or two games, and have actually been central to the plot/heavily featured in the game.

Krystal's been in 3 games, Leon's been in 3 games. 4 if you count SF2, which you can't.

I'll give you K. Rool, but I really don't see what makes Dixie so special. And there's no way in hell any other Kong is getting in the game as a playable character. Alt. Outfits = whatever, don't care, do what you want.

But given all that, I'd see a 4th SF rep over another monkey any day.

...

...Unless Rare actually gets to make DKC4, and it's actually fun. In which case we'd see. On the other hand, if Starfox actually gets a Wii installment sometime soon, then that would probably decide the issue for us.

And here's another thing that just came to me: DK's one of Ninty's franchises that's sort of "lost". Most people know him either from the original arcade game, DKC, or Smash Bros.. But the series has lost the developer that made it so popular, and as we've seen (Barrel Blast, KoS, Konga), Ninty hasn't really struck gold since (putting aside Jungle Beat, but that's a special case now that EAD Tokyo moved onto Mario games).

I could actually see the series petering out into nothingness for a while, similar to what happened to Metroid after 1994.

 

[Darky Dee]

wow...*facepalm* have you ever played Paper Mario The 1000 year door? she was the final boss. also, she was probably the craziest hctib in Mario History. just look her up on mariowiki.com. by the way, she's shadow queen. *facepalms again*

I haven't-- I lost interest since I found out the following Mario RPGs were not done by Squaresoft anymore. Sorry.

If her, people would bring up- "Why not Cackletta, Rosalina, or Princess Shroob?" They're all supporting characters that don't have anything over another.

I'll give you K. Rool, but I really don't see what makes Dixie so special.

She has more under her belt than the 'other' (unimportant) Kongs. Starred in two main titles as well as appear in numerous spin-offs. She was in before the series lost it's touch.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

well, having the history she has, she actually seems like an important character. Shes the reason the whole that game took place. I know, Cackletta was the reason behind superstar saga, but she doesn't have SQ's history or abilities. I have a moveset for her that is based on her abilities in PMTYD. I'll be putting it on that moveset thread soon, so take a look when its finished. i'll notify here when i'm done. Also, yeah the color swap is a good idea for Rosi.

 

[Darky Dee]

well, having the history she has, she actually seems like an important character. Shes the reason the whole that game took place. I know, Cackletta was the reason behind superstar saga, but she doesn't have SQ's history or abilities. I have a moveset for her that is based on her abilities in PMTYD. I'll be putting it on that moveset thread soon, so take a look when its finished. i'll notify here when i'm done. Also, yeah the color swap is a good idea for Rosi.

Because she was the reason the whole game was fabricated doesn't mean she is more important than any other characters that are in the same boat. Just because the game fleshes out her story in detail more than character A doesn't mean she's more important than others.

I could easily state that Cackletta has a lot more personality than her with a lot of abilities at her disposal and run with that. There are different factors that some characters have other others that make them seem eligible.

 

[Turbo Ether]

DKC games were some of the most notable games in the series, and Dixie starred in more of them than Donkey. I'm not concerned with her making it in, but I wouldn't object to it.

I think K.Rool would be fine too.

I seriously don't give a **** about the "rules" of how many reprensentatives a series is "entitled" to have. If the character is popular and plays well, i'm fine with their inclusion.

 

[Darky Dee]

DKC games were some of the most notable games in the series, and Dixie starred in more of them than Donkey. I'm not concerned with her making it in, but I wouldn't object to it.

I think K.Rool would be fine too.

I seriously don't give a **** about the "rules" of how many reprensentatives a series is "entitled" to have. If the character is popular and plays well, i'm fine with their inclusion.

Well, rules that haven't been outlined, they're just thought-up guidelines that seem sensible. My theory is that no franchise would pass Super Mario's in terms of "character slots".

 

[Chief Mendez]

I seriously don't give a **** about the "rules" of how many reprensentatives a series is "entitled" to have. If the character is popular and plays well, i'm fine with their inclusion.

Not to sound rude, but if that's the case...then you're kind of in the wrong place right now.

The "rules" and "entitlements" are really all we have to go on right now, and if we don't...then all we have are *shudder* dream rosters...

 

[princesspeachluver13]

okay...does SQ have thousands of skeletons lying around her fortresses? No. Does Cackletta have the ability to put the whole world in darkness? No. Did Cackletta create the first Pit of 100 Trials? No. Did Mario have to go collect 7 crystal stars to accidentaly revive the main evil that he ultimately destroys? NOOOOOO. SQ-1 Cackletta-0 end of discussion about these two characters.

 

[Darky Dee]

okay...does SQ have thousands of skeletons lying around her fortresses? No. Does Cackletta have the ability to put the whole world in darkness? No. Did Cackletta create the first Pit of 100 Trials? No. Did Mario have to go collect 7 crystal stars to ultimately revive the main evil? NOOOOOO. SQ-1 Cackletta-0 end of discussion about these two characters.

Can Shadow Queen breathe in outer space? Does she have a huge vessel traveling through the galaxy? Is she royalty? Do Lumas call her mommy? Is she in mainstream titles? Can she race on dirt bikes? Is she not a paper cut-out? Can she out-live Rosalina and still look pretty naturally?

Just because she has the ability doesn't mean she's eligible. I don't ever remember Peach pulling out a Toad from hammer space to counter an attack with it's spores, my point on this comparison is that just because they are OMGOVER9000 powerz and can have an intriguing move set doesn't mean they're more likely to get in more than anyone else. They can be completely helpless and almost always in distress, and still make it (example: Peach and Zelda).

 

[princesspeachluver13]

Wait...are we debating SQ and CACKLETTA or SQ and ROSALINA

 

[Darky Dee]

Anyone that is currently not in Smash Bros. against Shadow Queen. I was using Rosalina as an example.

If it helps, lets say I was for Cackletta-- because I like her personality and she would have a sweet move set.

Can Shadow Queen have a manic laugh? Is her design more original than someone who looks like Peach with a shadow behind her? Is she green? Is she humorous? She can have a nice move set as well. Can she EAT Bowser? That doesn't make her more likely to be apart of the Smash series.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

oh...ok. well, in that case, they both deserve spots, one being good, the other being evil
Also, Rosalina-never paper, never overshadows anyone, cant summon shadows from ground, NOT AS POWERFUL, No more than 1 form, no underlings(Lumas dont count cause they do nothing), and No difficult level leading to her

 

[Darky Dee]

and No difficult level leading to her

Rosalina is a protagonist. They usually require no difficulty at all.

I'm assuming the rules that aren't outlined are:
I. Must be popular in the series.
-----a. Being in more titles helps reputation.
-----b. Being the main protagonist or antagonist help.
II. Must be popular-- period.
-----a. Polls help.
III. Must play a vital role in the "franchise".
-----a. reocuring roles help as well.
IV. They must have all of the above.
V. LOOP HOLE-- if lacking a few rules mentioned above but overly emphasized in at least one of them overrides the rules!

Post Notice: NO GENERIC CHARACTERS-- {ex. Goombas, Poes, Chozos, etc.}

 

[princesspeachluver13]

tru about level ting...hopefully, SQ gets in for popularity. Sakurai might put her in because she might make a good addition and needs recognition. Besides, the reason i have a hate(of sorts) toward cackletta is because i never finished SS...also, other than SMG, Rosalina never served a VITAL role in the franchise.

 

[Darky Dee]

I'm not advocating that I want her though, I was using her as an example. IFF there were to be another Super Mario addition-- I can see Geno making it since rule three is used because of rule five.

Shadow Queen's time would have been in Brawl, I don't even think I saw her in the polls, moreso in the journal mentions. So chances of her popularity randomly spiking seem like none at all.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

Geno...I'm a little sketchy on Geno's possibility, but its certainly possible

 

[Darky Dee]

I was shocked he wasn't in Brawl. He had the most (or tied with King Dedede, I forget) journal mentions(?), I think five it was-- and was really high up there on the polls. Perhaps it was legal constraints, or perhaps it was a time issue. I mean, Sonic was extremely rushed as it is-- so that seems that it was likely a time issue. If he's not in the next one, it's highly probable that it was legal issues between Square-Enix and Nintendo.

Restating my (opinionated) highly-probable wish list-
Captain Rainbow
Dixie Kong
Issac
King K. Rool
Krystal
Ray MK II

There are others I'd like to see, but I am really not sure on their chances:
Dark Samus
Geno
Lip
Megaman
Mewtwo (with armored form*)
Midna

And the Wish-Wish List:
Black Mage (Final Fantasy)
John Ramini (Geist)
Kat & Ana
KOS-MOS
NiGHTS
Ridley
Tin Star


To Save Up Slots- Remove:
Toon Link (unless he his move set gets revamped*)

 

[NjHudz]

captian rainbow?! Lip?! Tin Star?! Midna without wolf link?!!!!?!!?!?!? John Ramini!?! KOS MOS?! Youve got serious problems dude

 

[Heartz♥]

I am trying to focus more on the female side of Smash. 64 didnt have a single female (except Samus), and Melee and Brawl barely had any. Here is my ideal female side of the roster:


Peach
Zelda/Shiek
Impa (LoZ: Ocarina of Time))
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Midna
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
Dixie Kong
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Krystal (Star Fox Adventures)


I cannot think of other femmes. What else could be added to this list? I would have put Rosalina, but she only seems Assist Trophy worthy. And Daisy, OMG, please, not even a cameo for her.

 

[flyinfilipino]

So, comparing Dixie Kong and King K. Rool's pros and cons with regards to getting into Smash. Bros (ignoring moveset potential)....

Dixie Kong
- Was playable in the games she was in, a trait shared by a vast majority of the Smash cast
- Was playable a lot in the Donkey Kong Country games, the most iconic games of the franchise
- Was the main character of one of the DKC games
- Was to be implemented into Brawl

King K. Rool
- Is the bad guy in all (?) the Donkey Kong games, including all three of the DKC ones
- Is a villain, which follows a "pattern" oh wait, Ridley

To make everyone happy, and since the DKC and Star Fox franchises are/were popular, iconic, and created by Shigeru Miyamoto, what if they both got what everyone wants and topped off at 4 reps each in the next game?

 

[Heartz♥]

So, comparing Dixie Kong and King K. Rool's pros and cons with regards to getting into Smash. Bros (ignoring moveset potential)....

Dixie Kong
- Was playable in the games she was in, a trait shared by a vast majority of the Smash cast
- Was playable a lot in the Donkey Kong Country games, the most iconic games of the franchise
- Was the main character of one of the DKC games
- Was to be implemented into Brawl

King K. Rool
- Is the bad guy in all (?) the Donkey Kong games, including all three of the DKC ones
- Is a villain, which follows a "pattern" oh wait, Ridley

To make everyone happy, and since the DKC and Star Fox franchises are/were popular, iconic, and created by Shigeru Miyamoto, what if they both got what everyone wants and topped off at 4 reps each in the next game?

That sounds good to me. I cannot understand why people would hate on a character BEING in SSB4. Who cares? What they should be focusing on is who they WANT in SSB4. But at the same time, don't let it be ridiculous like wanting Cloud, Master Chief, and Naruto in it.

 

[Kiki52]

It is because if someone whom people hate to get in, gets in, they take up precious development time and resources away from potentially other good character candidates. Developers can only put so many characters, and I also think the developers also want to keep the roster screen looking clean and box-shaped (a perfect square), not odd shaped like it looked like in Melee.

That sounds good to me. I cannot understand why people would hate on a character BEING in SSB4. Who cares? What they should be focusing on is who they WANT in SSB4. But at the same time, don't let it be ridiculous like wanting Cloud, Master Chief, and Naruto in it.

 

[flyinfilipino]

It is because if someone whom people hate to get in, gets in, they take up precious development time and resources away from potentially other good character candidates. Developers can only put so many characters, and I also think the developers also want to keep the roster screen looking clean and box-shaped (a perfect square), not odd shaped like it looked like in Melee.

For every hater of a popular character on a message board, there's probably a thousand people who wouldn't mind or would love for the character to get in. And really, the shape of the character screen doesn't matter (Brawl's isn't a square).

 

[princesspeachluver13]

I am trying to focus more on the female side of Smash. 64 didnt have a single female (except Samus), and Melee and Brawl barely had any. Here is my ideal female side of the roster:


Peach
Zelda/Shiek
Impa (LoZ: Ocarina of Time))
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Midna
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
Dixie Kong
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Krystal (Star Fox Adventures)


I cannot think of other femmes. What else could be added to this list? I would have put Rosalina, but she only seems Assist Trophy worthy. And Daisy, OMG, please, not even a cameo for her.

what about Shadow Queen

 

[Heartz♥]

It is because if someone whom people hate to get in, gets in, they take up precious development time and resources away from potentially other good character candidates. Developers can only put so many characters, and I also think the developers also want to keep the roster screen looking clean and box-shaped (a perfect square), not odd shaped like it looked like in Melee.

True enough. But Brawl was kind of the same. Who really expected ROB? On top of that, Nintendo doesn't really listen to its fans alot, let alone us non-Japanese players. And we could have lived without Assist Trophies, even though they are "kind" of cool. But making Isaac an AT was kind of an insult to him.


Shadow Queen? I don't even know who that is, sadly.