[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Bowser King]

Make every character EQUAL. No more stupid tiers crap. >_<

I'm guessing you have never played any other fighting game. Tiers will always exist unless you make every character the exact same.

Oh, and your DR thing you mentioned about yoshi is one of the reasons some characters are better then others. If you want every char to be equal then your going to have to remove stuff like DR and CG, making the game even more shallow.....

 

[Roihu]

You can keep dreaming of Wavedashing and L-canceling, but you know it will never happen again.
Brawl is a perfectly fine game as it is. Comparing it to Melee will do you no good. If you want those ATs so much, go play Melee. Yes, I know, it's overused, but seriously, if you hate Brawl's gameplay so much, just don't play it. Maybe if you could learn to stop comparing it to Melee, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[.Marik]

I'm guessing you have never played any other fighting game. Tiers will always exist unless you make every character the exact same.

Oh, and your DR thing you mentioned about yoshi is one of the reasons some characters are better then others. If you want every char to be equal then your going to have to remove stuff like DR and CG, making the game even more shallow.....

How true..... >_> And yes, of course I've played other fighters. xD But I see what you mean. At least all the characters are more or less matched now....

 

[hippochinfat!!]

People want a sequel more similar to Melee though. You can't just say "GO PLAY MELEE" because why would they play Melee when they could get a sequel with better graphics, more characters, more stages AND Melee game play.

And of course people are going to compare it to Brawl, Brawl is it's sequel.


Also, to above poster Brawl isn't balanced at all.

 

[FAILchion-]

I support the notion that Brawl is more unbalanced than Melee. >_>

 

[Roihu]

People want a sequel more similar to Melee though. You can't just say "GO PLAY MELEE" because why would they play Melee when they could get a sequel with better graphics, more characters, more stages AND Melee game play.

And of course people are going to compare it to Brawl, Brawl is it's sequel.


Also, to above poster Brawl isn't balanced at all.

I understand where you're coming from, but Brawl is nothing compared to Melee (According to everyone I hear). Well, the gameplay isn't, anyways. Expecting for a Melee sequel (as in with Melee physics) is useless, and I'm sure I don't have to say that. Nintendo's too casual now, which is good for them since they make money that way.
Also, Marik, look at Captain Falcon.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

I understand where you're coming from, but Brawl is nothing compared to Melee (According to everyone I hear). Well, the gameplay isn't, anyways. Expecting for a Melee sequel (as in with Melee physics) is useless, and I'm sure I don't have to say that. Nintendo's too casual now, which is good for them since they make money that way.
Also, Marik, look at Captain Falcon.

I know it won't happen but people can still hope.

 

[Skyshroud]

Does anyone else besides me actually think that SSB64 actually had the best overall speed of play? I mean, it required skill and the game flowed very well. Melee seems to almost go at a frenetic pace. I think that really an SSB64 update would be better than a melee one. The only really lacking part of that game that makes people not play it much anymore is the lack of characters.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

Balancing all of the characters perfectly is impossible. You can get them close, but even then it wouldnt be worth the amount of testing required. Overall though I do think that they do need to completely eliminate characters who OBVIOUSLY lag behind and they do need to give every characters at least one good tilt, smash, and 2 good aerials, basically all of those attacks being fast with a good balance of range and priority. Those characters with less range get more priority and those with more range get a bit less priority. Pretty much we shouldnt have characters who end up like Captain Falcon is now.

So pretty much you want Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, basically ALL bottom tier characters removed for the sake of balance?

Not a lot of people are gonna like that you know...

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

... is it just me who found Brawl a bit more spot-dodge friendy? as well as air-dodge? As in, for some reason it's easier to spot/air-dodge?

edit:
I dont' think that all characters should have at least a few good smash's or 1 good one and such--it forms different strategies if all the characters have different ways of dealing damage and ko'ing. variety is GOOD!

 

[metaXzero]

... is it just me who found Brawl a bit more spot-dodge friendy? as well as air-dodge? As in, for some reason it's easier to spot/air-dodge?

edit:
I dont' think that all characters should have at least a few good smash's or 1 good one and such--it forms different strategies if all the characters have different ways of dealing damage and ko'ing. variety is GOOD!

Variety is good until some characters become crap and others become gods.

I at least want some basic essentials along with the diversity.

 

[Phaazoid]

I support the notion that Brawl is more unbalanced than Melee. >_>

more characters = harder to balance.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

more characters = harder to balance.

they can balance it if every attack does 1%

 

[Knyaguy]

... is it just me who found Brawl a bit more spot-dodge friendy? as well as air-dodge? As in, for some reason it's easier to spot/air-dodge?

I have! Now you can airdodge without worrying about losing your jumps!

 

[SkylerOcon]

Balancing all of the characters perfectly is impossible. You can get them close, but even then it wouldnt be worth the amount of testing required. Overall though I do think that they do need to completely eliminate characters who OBVIOUSLY lag behind and they do need to give every characters at least one good tilt, smash, and 2 good aerials, basically all of those attacks being fast with a good balance of range and priority. Those characters with less range get more priority and those with more range get a bit less priority. Pretty much we shouldnt have characters who end up like Captain Falcon is now.

So, no more Link, amirite?

2. No edgehogging (meaning Ivysaur, Olimar, and Zamus have better recovery).

I'm a little (a lot) late, but that would ruin a major aspect of strategy. Edgehogging has always been a part of smash brothers and added a depth to it, that I think that casuals and hardcore gamers alike can find appealing. Of course, I'm assuming that you main one of those characters and get edgehogged a lot so you don't like it.

 

[binki4]

i know the character i want for the next smash bros game like SSb4

1. MEGAMAN

2. RICK WELLER

3. SHINNON POKEMON TRAINER


because why megaman was not in brawl because of gamecube exclusive resident evil 4 allowing to go multiplatform that why satoru iwata decited not to include capcom characters in the game called it super smash bros brawl during development i hope they will be megaman in this smash bros series

but for rick weller he was not in sakurai poll list by the way rick weller japaneese artwork is on the japaneese smash bros fan site called ikusaba but i will be excited to see him in next smash bros game

but shinnon trainer it was too late to put him in brawl but the pokemon trainer that have squirtle ivysuar and carizard are in it and so is pokemon trainer but sorry about shinnon trainer but i mid interesting of pokemon series of course i will play him as in the future next smash bros game

so these are the characters that i hoped for

 

[SkylerOcon]

OH MY GOD MY POOR EYES

Just a tip, using periods help.

Megaman is the next most likely third party to make it in the SSB series, so that wish will probably be fulfilled. If there is another PT (which I want as well), then I want it to have Blaziken, Piplup, and a gen 5 grass Pokemon.

 

[metaXzero]

Everytime I see some1 hate edgehogging, I lose respect for them.

It's not bad (referring to KumaOso)

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Variety is good until some characters become crap and others become gods.

I at least want some basic essentials along with the diversity.

That's quite reasonable..

@Knyaguy:
Yeah there's that! I also mean--at least for me it's easier to spot-dodge attacks and what not for some reaason--I don't know I think Brawl stresses the importance of dodging more than Melee.

This is just me but I think Brawl is mroe balanced NOT character-wise, but game play wise. Due to thinks like the afore mentioned, making dodging more of a priority this time around. Yeah, it does seem a bit floaty, but you get used to it soon enough, and the game play doesn't seem all that slower..
Both Brawl and Melee have their perks I guess.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Um... Sorry, dude, but that ain't gonna fly. Ridley and Samus are mortal enemies. There will be no truce, and he's not gonna magically bring her parents back.

By the way, use more periods and fewer "and"s.

Yeah that is true but when Ridley finds out that Samus is a hot and attrective woman. He will start falling for her lol.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm a little (a lot) late, but that would ruin a major aspect of strategy. Edgehogging has always been a part of smash brothers and added a depth to it, that I think that casuals and hardcore gamers alike can find appealing. Of course, I'm assuming that you main one of those characters and get edgehogged a lot so you don't like it.

I main Zamus, but from my Wi-fi experiences, I typically die of knockouts, not edgeguarding.

I just suggested that because I thought it would help those characters.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Adversely, it would ruin Mario and would screw up the Metagame.

 

[manhunter098]

So pretty much you want Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, basically ALL bottom tier characters removed for the sake of balance?

Not a lot of people are gonna like that you know...

No. And I guess its time for an English lession. The words "end up" implies a process of building the characters, so basically if I say characters shouldnt end up a certain way it in no way means they should be removed, it only means they shouldnt end up that way.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Besides Pit's arrows not causing early (possibly pre-100% flinching), I'd like to see two things:

1) Priority Decay

1. Each attack would increase a value we shall call "Priority Decay" by 2 to 6 depending on the attack. This is regardless of whether or not the attack hits anything.
2. Priority Decay value would cap at 100.
3. Each character would have a Priority Decay limit. (Meta Knight's would be very low.) Each point pass that would decrease Priority by 0.5%.
4. Every 1.5 seconds, the PD value would go down by 1 point. (This means Meta Knight would still be able to work with dealing 150% ridiculously fast, but given his destroyed priority, he'll be very open for harassment without attacks with which to defend himself, and his low weight AND high fall speed will see to it that he'll have to earn wins now.)
5. Also, for each time an attack that is used is in the attack queue, the PD would be increased by 50%. (Say if the Forward Smash is in the queue 6 times, PD will be quadrupled. Or 4 times and it's tripled.)

Well, ideally, we want to minimize the influence of this concept because it can get pretty complicated. Mostly, if need be, we would want to tone down characters who rely on priority to be overpowered.

How does range of 15 to 85 for PD limits sound? Obviously, with Mario smack dab at 50. He gets there with 25 attacks that have a PD rate of 2. But after 30 seconds, the PD would have gone down by 20 points. That recovery rule is to make sure Meta Knight is not turned into a character that can be destroyed by harassment. And I used a percentage for decline rate so that characters with low priority to begin with won't be affected as much if they do start suffering PD.

But these stats may need to be modified.

Next up:

2) Character Mode

• Rule # 1: 2-6 characters per player
• Rule # 2: 1 stock per character
• Rule # 3: No doubles
• Rule # 4: When starting, characters can be assigned to directions on the D Pad, as well as the A and B buttons
• Rule # 5: Default starter is random.
• Rule # 6: Starter may be changed manually by holding the respective direction/button assigned to the character
• Rule # 7: While on safe ground, players may swap characters using a button assigned with a command called Swap.
• Rule # 8: Start, if Pause is disabled, defaults to Swap.
• Rule # 9: The new character won't be damaged, but the old character will retain all damage he/she took.

So you know SSE's idea of having the player have extra characters to work with on stages, right? What if that was a VS mode? We could set up our own teams of characters to battle each other with. Heck, we could even devise strategies with them. I certainly have my general strategy for my character set down.


Let's see what you people have to say about this.

 

[gantrain05]

they can balance it if every attack does 1%

thats still not balanced, that would just give the advantage to combo-ish characters and fast hitters, how the hell would bowser or ganon ever win if everyone did 1% lol.

 

[RixMaadi]

What if moves had priority based on how much start-up lag they have? This could also go for charging smashes, so you're adding more damage, knockback, and priority.

This would make a move like Falcon Punch or Warlock Punch have some of the most priority, unless you go up against a charged smash move. Projectiles would have priority based on how many frames it takes to shoot them, and for Lucario's case, how long it takes to charge it perhaps. The priority increase could stop once you can't increase the amount of damage or knockback that it could deal.

So, what negatives would come from this idea?

 

[OmegaXXII]

they can balance it if every attack does 1%

but do you think this would actually happen? NO it won't.

 

[flyinfilipino]

What if moves had priority based on how much start-up lag they have? This could also go for charging smashes, so you're adding more damage, knockback, and priority.

This would make a move like Falcon Punch or Warlock Punch have some of the most priority, unless you go up against a charged smash move. Projectiles would have priority based on how many frames it takes to shoot them, and for Lucario's case, how long it takes to charge it perhaps. The priority increase could stop once you can't increase the amount of damage or knockback that it could deal.

So, what negatives would come from this idea?

That makes some sense. Wouldn't this make Ike sad though?

 

[Big-Cat]

That makes some sense. Wouldn't this make Ike sad though?

That it would. I'm still confused about this whole priority decay thing.

Maybe the priority decay rate will vary for characters. Just by going from Brawl, MK would have the highest decay rate and Ganondorf has the lowest rate.

 

[Kiyosuki]

IF you're theoretically changing or altering the mechanics of the what-if game, then why do characters necessarilly have to function the exact same way as a previous game necessarilly? They can be adjusted too.

 

[Stealth309]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game, and online play is in it, even if it is laggy. It was put in there. Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

yay for killjoys....

 

[Big-Cat]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game, and online play is in it, even if it is laggy. It was put in there. Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

Most of us like Brawl, it's just that we all fell victim to the Dojo hype-engine. Not to mention that most of us weren't expecting the gameplay to be dumbed down. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo will make another Smash. This isn't like MOTHER where there's a continuing storyline over the games.

Besides, for all we know, we may have the next smash game in the next few years, not seven.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

No. And I guess its time for an English lession. The words "end up" implies a process of building the characters, so basically if I say characters shouldnt end up a certain way it in no way means they should be removed, it only means they shouldnt end up that way.

Which you only say afterwards much later in a different sentence.

But now I'm just nitpicking at the way someone types, so I'll say I'm sorry for misinterpreting you and I'll shut up now. XD

 

[flyinfilipino]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game, and online play is in it, even if it is laggy. It was put in there. Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

*Most of us* aren't whining here. That's in *every* other thread(s).

 

[metaXzero]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game, and online play is in it, even if it is laggy. It was put in there. Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

We'll discuss what we please. Don't like it? LEAVE.

 

[Marios My Bro]

We'll discuss what we please. Don't like it? LEAVE.

I agree with that. People are critics to every game and that is what makes a game great when people find things wrong with it so the creators can make the next game even better. Maybe we should recreat this thread and get it on topic and discuss more aspects such as who will be in the game and what kinda levels there will be

 

[OmegaXXII]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game, and online play is in it, even if it is laggy. It was put in there. Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

oh... we are simply speculating on what we would like to see in the next installment of smash, not actually dissing Brawl, learn to read before you assume what we are talking about.

 

[tirkaro]

Why the heck are people already talking about a fourth SSBB? I mean, ever since March people have been *****ing about Brawl's every flaw and how it could be better. Brawl's onl been out for six months and people won't quit their crying. Geez, people. Learn to appreciate this game, or go back to Melee. Brawl is a great game,

Man, I know right!? How dare people actually have different opinions than you!? We must burn them at the stake!

Also, Brawl's slogan is "The Brawl to end it all". I don't think they're talking about the SSE either. And even if there were to be a fourth SSB to come out, we still have a good six years to kill on Brawl, so quit your whining people.

Except, "The brawl to end them all" is an american-only slogan, and sakurai already said he'd like to work on another smash.

 

[metaXzero]

Back on topic (freakin Stealth309), I'd like for them to buff ground combat somehow. 64, Melee and Brawl all usually favor aerial attacks and approaches. Any ideas how any1?