[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[gantrain05]

why not change toon link to have maybe a slingshot instead of a bow, and make his Bup the Deku leaf he uses in wind waker, and while he's in the air it can be used as a glide recovery kind of like peaches umbrella? and they could easily change his smashes and ariels up so they aren't so identical to links.

 

[SirKibble]

Actually, his aerials are already pretty different. Only the U-Air is really the same.

 

[drag0nscythe]

You just agreed that the clones were likely a result of time constraints. I can say that creating 39 different characters is not lazy.

He did not make 39 different characters.

He dubbed 22 from Melee.
He then had 17 made for brawl. (With Lucas and wolf being based on other characters)

So say, 15 completely unique characters.

As for clones being for time constraints. I do not think that. I think he wanted to spend more time on SSE than on making more characters. They reached a quota by any means, and then moved on to what he wanted, A big SSE story.

IMO, SSE should have been like the Great Maze through out the whole mode, not just that part.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Actually, his aerials are already pretty different. Only the U-Air is really the same.

Yeah really. If they gave Toon Link the Hurricane Spin and a different Forward Smash in the next game, I'd be fine with it.

I think people who want a new Toon Link (Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, etc.) are fooling themselves. For one thing, the moveset he has now is perfectly suiting: he does do all those things in his games, and then there's this other thing...

Regular Link is from Twilight Princess, right? Shouldn't we be offended that he doesn't have a moveset that shows off all the unique weapons he uses in that game? Ball & Chain? Spinner? Mortal Draw/Helm Splitter/Jump Strike? Bomb Arrows? Sword of Twilight? ETCETERA!? WOLF LINK!?!

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yeah really. If they gave Toon Link the Hurricane Spin and a different Forward Smash in the next game, I'd be fine with it.

I think people who want a new Toon Link (Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, etc.) are fooling themselves. For one thing, the moveset he has now is perfectly suiting: he does do all those things in his games, and then there's this other thing...

Regular Link is from Twilight Princess, right? Shouldn't we be offended that he doesn't have a moveset that shows off all the unique weapons he uses in that game? Ball & Chain? Spinner? Mortal Draw/Helm Splitter/Jump Strike? Bomb Arrows? Sword of Twilight? ETCETERA!?

I am offended that there is no Wolf Link.
I was horribly offended.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah really. If they gave Toon Link the Hurricane Spin and a different Forward Smash in the next game, I'd be fine with it.

I think people who want a new Toon Link (Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, etc.) are fooling themselves. For one thing, the moveset he has now is perfectly suiting: he does do all those things in his games, and then there's this other thing...

Regular Link is from Twilight Princess, right? Shouldn't we be offended that he doesn't have a moveset that shows off all the unique weapons he uses in that game? Ball & Chain? Spinner? Mortal Draw/Helm Splitter/Jump Strike? Bomb Arrows? Sword of Twilight? ETCETERA!? WOLF LINK!?!

Well, Link and Zelda in Smash are supposed to be culminations of all the Links and Zeldas in the past. However, this was said back in Melee's days and may only apply to the realistic Zelda games now.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Well, Link and Zelda in Smash are supposed to be culminations of all the Links and Zeldas in the past. However, this was said back in Melee's days and may only apply to the realistic Zelda games now.

Problem with that is Sheik.

sheik was only with Zelda in OoT. None others.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Problem with that is Sheik.

sheik was only with Zelda in OoT. None others.

Check and mate.

Spoiler

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Big-Cat]

Problem with that is Sheik.

sheik was only with Zelda in OoT. None others.

Good point. Although, I'm not the one who said that Link and Zelda in Smash were their own characters. It was either Aonuma or Sakurai in an interview. I can't remember though.

As for Sheik coming back, I think her popularity kept her in.

 

[Phaazoid]

dude, that would be cool and all, but let's look at it realistically, it's not going to happen!, as much as everyone would like this, it would take forever, years and years for programming animations and such, not to mention if you expect them to all have unique movesets.

i know. i just wish that they at least made an attempt to blow us away. if they had 65 characters, 70 stages, an amazing wifi loaded with features, and a ****ty adventure mode, would you be satisfied? how about 50 characters, 50(new) stages, a moderate wifi (better than brawls, but not great) and a kickass long adventure mode?

then look at it like this. there is no other smash game for ten years. the adventure mode is great, yeah, no one will be playing it much, 2 years later. as soon I finished the emissary, i was done with it. i'm not playing it anymore.

I'm just focusing on the important improvements, the ones that brawl didn't have from melee, (it's already wound down) but melee had from 64. how long was melee extremely popular? they just need a LOT of multiplayer content, a lot of flexibility (custom game modes anyone?) and a good solid wifi to keep this game alive. especially going against halo 5 or whatever it'll up against.

so, if it takes three years to make smash 4 with all the features i stated and more, but it lasted 15 years, i would be very happy. brawl is still good, but it's lost it's hype. still the best wii game in my opinion, but that's not saying a lot. I think i'm going to enjoy GTH4 world tour better than brawl.

And on more thing, too many people argue about the little things. "we need L canceling back!" "X character needs to be in!" "Tripping sucks!"

we don't need to discuss these things. everyone wants X character in. it's hard to find someone that has tripping at the top of their best innovations list. and all the other advanced technical features will always change and vary from game to game, but the one thing they've been good about is balancing them. you don't see sonic dashdancing like crazy because of tripping. in a way, it was necessary, or at least the developers believed so. so the little stuff doesn't matter, you're always going to have to adjust, change is good. as long as in the bigger scheme the game succeeds, we'll be happy longer. people might have lost a match to tripping, but it's not going to stop the game from being fun.

 

[gantrain05]

yeah, i think they should have givin link the ability to transform to wolf like kind of like zelda/shiek thing. i think they could have made wolf link a **** good and unique character.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Clones were in Brawl because Brawl is a fighting game. Clones are a staple of fighting games...duh.

 

[BKupa666]

I agree that Sakurai is not lazy, however, I will post one thing that stood out to me here.

"What happened in the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn’t. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example… but sadly I can’t discuss which ones didn’t make it.

With three years and two delays to work on the game, he chose the Brawl characters, but didn't strive for more. The ones that he says 'couldn't make it' might have been implemented, had Sakurai not continued to casualize Brawl. He could've balanced the game, but also included at least a few more non clone characters before release.

NO TRIPPING

 

[Marios My Bro]

Final Fantasy Characters be awesome to add. Many people would like to play it who are huge ff fans. Also add issac from Golden Sun

 

[flyinfilipino]

He did not make 39 different characters.

He dubbed 22 from Melee.
He then had 17 made for brawl. (With Lucas and wolf being based on other characters)

So say, 15 completely unique characters.

Well, he did create them, didn't he?

 

[Lord Ba'al]

One little thing I'm hoping for is the ability to use a Black and White Yoshi. Doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things, but meh.
Oh, and I suppose I'd like to see SSB4 make use of the Wii Speak

 

[Phaazoid]

just because my rant was posted on the bottom of the page, I'm re posting it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GigaKoopa View Post
dude, that would be cool and all, but let's look at it realistically, it's not going to happen!, as much as everyone would like this, it would take forever, years and years for programming animations and such, not to mention if you expect them to all have unique movesets.
i know. i just wish that they at least made an attempt to blow us away. if they had 65 characters, 70 stages, an amazing wifi loaded with features, and a ****ty adventure mode, would you be satisfied? how about 50 characters, 50(new) stages, a moderate wifi (better than brawls, but not great) and a kickass long adventure mode?

then look at it like this. there is no other smash game for ten years. the adventure mode is great, yeah, no one will be playing it much, 2 years later. as soon I finished the emissary, i was done with it. i'm not playing it anymore.

I'm just focusing on the important improvements, the ones that brawl didn't have from melee, (it's already wound down) but melee had from 64. how long was melee extremely popular? they just need a LOT of multiplayer content, a lot of flexibility (custom game modes anyone?) and a good solid wifi to keep this game alive. especially going against halo 5 or whatever it'll up against.

so, if it takes three years to make smash 4 with all the features i stated and more, but it lasted 15 years, i would be very happy. brawl is still good, but it's lost it's hype. still the best wii game in my opinion, but that's not saying a lot. I think i'm going to enjoy GTH4 world tour better than brawl.

And on more thing, too many people argue about the little things. "we need L canceling back!" "X character needs to be in!" "Tripping sucks!"

we don't need to discuss these things. everyone wants X character in. it's hard to find someone that has tripping at the top of their best innovations list. and all the other advanced technical features will always change and vary from game to game, but the one thing they've been good about is balancing them. you don't see sonic dashdancing like crazy because of tripping. in a way, it was necessary, or at least the developers believed so. so the little stuff doesn't matter, you're always going to have to adjust, change is good. as long as in the bigger scheme the game succeeds, we'll be happy longer. people might have lost a match to tripping, but it's not going to stop the game from being fun.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Define "Zero2death comboz" and "glitch". And you better have a correct definition.

zero2death comboz:

A combo that takes the opponent from 0% and comboing them until they die is a zero to death combo.

A glitch is something that was not intentionally put in the game; usually due to a fault in the games coding.

 

[~rh]

One little thing I'm hoping for is the ability to use a Black and White Yoshi. Doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things, but meh.
Oh, and I suppose I'd like to see SSB4 make use of the Wii Speak

I'd hope so. i cant deal with taping my cellphone to my freakin head or playing on speaker while trash talking with my friends. It's gettin old.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I'd hope so. i cant deal with taping my cellphone to my freakin head or playing on speaker while trash talking with my friends. It's gettin old.

I know what you mean. My neck has a slant in it becasue I had to keep the phone from falling on the floor.

They need to user Wii speak. Trash talking your friends (or people in general) is one of the great past times in online games.

 

[Phaazoid]

One little thing I'm hoping for is the ability to use a Black and White Yoshi. Doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things, but meh.
Oh, and I suppose I'd like to see SSB4 make use of the Wii Speak

http://www.ghosteo.net/0726/black-yoshi/
http://www.ghosteo.net/0808/wyoshi/

 

[Brawler1432]

One little thing I'm hoping for is the ability to use a Black and White Yoshi. Doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things, but meh.
Oh, and I suppose I'd like to see SSB4 make use of the Wii Speak

If they add wii speak and improve the online by a bunch, SSB4 will be my new fav game.

 

[majora_787]

I think they should just go wild with the alternate colors. Black and White yoshis. All of the old alt colors. A Dr. mario alt.

There are so many options as far as alternate colors that they are scrapping or not using.

 

[~rh]

I'm also for the B&W Yoshis. They look pretty **** cool.

I know what you mean. My neck has a slant in it becasue I had to keep the phone from falling on the floor.

They need to user Wii speak. Trash talking your friends (or people in general) is one of the great past times in online games.

I hope they patch up Mario Kart so it enables Wii Speak cause that game brings out the worst of my competitive spirit. It's so fun lol

 

[smashbot226]

I think they should just go wild with the alternate colors. Black and White yoshis. All of the old alt colors. A Dr. mario alt.

There are so many options as far as alternate colors that they are scrapping or not using.

Ain't that the truth...

I wanted a Raichu Alt for Pika.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

one Little Thing I'm Hoping For Is The Ability To Use A Black And White Yoshi.

Thank You!

 

[Exia 00]

Megaman.......


I dont care for Wii speak cause i dont want my parents to become friends with my friends >.> Just make a ****in wireless headset. And if theres no DLC then im not getting it >.>

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Thank You!

Your welcome ^_^
But even beyond that, they could have switched the pink for orange, or light blue for purple...
If SSB4 has about 10 color choices (which I know is a lot), I think many people would be happy.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I'm sure WiiSpeak will be null and void for SSB4, as it probably won't be on the Wii. So unless Ninty just releases a tweaked Wii (HDD, Better Graphics, faster processor, MotionPlus built-in, etc. etc.), WiiSpeak probably won't work with whatever system SSB4 is on.

They do need to include voice chat, though. If they're worried about exposing kids to...well, to idiots, then all they need to do is work in a "Mute User X" feature, which isn't hard.

And if theres no DLC then im not getting it >.>

...Yes you will

 

[SirKibble]

If not WiiSpeak, then obviously YuuSpeak, for the Nintendo Yuu.

Yuu Sports, Yuu Play, and just for kicks, Yuu Suck.

It's a game for people who are entirely new to video games, and it teaches them all the very very basics, because, well, they suck.

 

[Big-Cat]

If not WiiSpeak, then obviously YuuSpeak, for the Nintendo Yuu.

Yuu Sports, Yuu Play, and just for kicks, Yuu Suck.

It's a game for people who are entirely new to video games, and it teaches them all the very very basics, because, well, they suck.

I think it would be something else. Yuu is a Japanese name so I wouldn't count on that happening.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Your welcome ^_^
But even beyond that, they could have switched the pink for orange, or light blue for purple...
If SSB4 has about 10 color choices (which I know is a lot), I think many people would be happy.

I hear you there...
AT LEAST black and white yoshi.... come on they were secret characters! Plus they look pretty cool!

 

[Big-Cat]

I hear you there...
AT LEAST black and white yoshi.... come on they were secret characters! Plus they look pretty cool!

Not to mention that we could've had Blackshi and Whiteshi in Beans along with Blackimar.

 

[SirKibble]

I think it would be something else. Yuu is a Japanese name so I wouldn't count on that happening.

I was kidding... Guess I forgot the [JOKE] tags... Anyway, maybe they'll dig through the dumpster and call it the Revolution...

 

[darkserenade]

*sigh* School, you know?

Anyway, Yoshi needs a complete overhaul in everything. I'm thinking about the drastic new feature this time 'round as well.
Also, for the new system, how about 'Home Play 9000!!! 2000' (I'm not good at creative names=P.)?

 

[Chief Mendez]

*sigh* School, you know?

Nope!

Spoiler

I'm a free spirit, baby!

Anyway, I actually liked Yoshi in Melee, when crouch-canceling was still there. All they really need to do (which...they didn't do in Brawl...) is fix his shield and make his Egg Toss work like it does in Yoshi's Island.

Oh...and let him get out of his freaking Egg Roll in midair.

 

[SmashChu]

I agree that Sakurai is not lazy, however, I will post one thing that stood out to me here.

"What happened in the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn’t. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example… but sadly I can’t discuss which ones didn’t make it.

With three years and two delays to work on the game, he chose the Brawl characters, but didn't strive for more. The ones that he says 'couldn't make it' might have been implemented, had Sakurai not continued to casualize Brawl. He could've balanced the game, but also included at least a few more non clone characters before release.

NO TRIPPING

Oh God, where to start.

1)First, Sakurai said he worked for 3 years, but 3 years is Jan. 2005 and he didn't know about it till May of that year. They also didn't have a studio so production was more around Oct to Jan. It's more like 2. He is probably saying the whole time (the time he was involved with the project) and about. It took about 2 years of actual developing.

2)Does anyone not know Sakurai. He made Kirby to be easier as, at the time, he felt games were too hard. Naturally, he tries to make games so as many people can play it. He didn't "casualize" anything. Heck, in your book that's probably taking out the little exploits you so love. Which brings me to #3

3)Smash is a multiplayer fighting game, so the game is balanced for that. Tournament Smash is imbalanced becuase it puts a lot of restrictions. Fox was top tier in Melee becuase his trophy said so. He is better at one-on-one fights. How is this a surprise?

4)Everyone puts blame on "Oh, if we didn't get the SEE, we would have more characters". Truth is that if he didn't add those, he would have just released it earlier. Iwata mentions this, and Sakurai had the game laid out in his head before the start. This is why there is so much trimming becuase they find later what can and can't be done.

5)Stop complaining about clones. The definition of a clone is a character who uses the same model, and the moveset is just some stat and property switches. No character in Brawl follows this. Heck, even the ones who are close are still so dramatic from the counter part. And why does it matter, they all play differently anyway. It's obvious Sakurai put a lot of effort into them but felt it best if these characters were similar.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Oh God, where to start.

1)First, Sakurai said he worked for 3 years, but 3 years is Jan. 2005 and he didn't know about it till May of that year. They also didn't have a studio so production was more around Oct to Jan. It's more like 2. He is probably saying the whole time (the time he was involved with the project) and about. It took about 2 years of actual developing.

2)Does anyone not know Sakurai. He made Kirby to be easier as, at the time, he felt games were too hard. Naturally, he tries to make games so as many people can play it. He didn't "casualize" anything. Heck, in your book that's probably taking out the little exploits you so love. Which brings me to #3

3)Smash is a multiplayer fighting game, so the game is balanced for that. Tournament Smash is imbalanced becuase it puts a lot of restrictions. Fox was top tier in Melee becuase his trophy said so. He is better at one-on-one fights. How is this a surprise?

4)Everyone puts blame on "Oh, if we didn't get the SEE, we would have more characters". Truth is that if he didn't add those, he would have just released it earlier. Iwata mentions this, and Sakurai had the game laid out in his head before the start. This is why there is so much trimming becuase they find later what can and can't be done.

5)Stop complaining about clones. The definition of a clone is a character who uses the same model, and the moveset is just some stat and property switches. No character in Brawl follows this. Heck, even the ones who are close are still so dramatic from the counter part. And why does it matter, they all play differently anyway. It's obvious Sakurai put a lot of effort into them but felt it best if these characters were similar.

Quoted for pure win, truth, justice, and epicness.

Captain Falcon would be proud.

 

[Big-Cat]

5)Stop complaining about clones. The definition of a clone is a character who uses the same model, and the moveset is just some stat and property switches. No character in Brawl follows this. Heck, even the ones who are close are still so dramatic from the counter part. And why does it matter, they all play differently anyway. It's obvious Sakurai put a lot of effort into them but felt it best if these characters were similar.

What do you call Young Link, Falco, Roy, Pichu, and Ganondorf in Melee then?

Anyway, I'd like to know your opinoin on what I posted a while back for the MOTHER boys and such.

 

[SmashChu]

What do you call Young Link, Falco, Roy, Pichu, and Ganondorf in Melee then?

Clones. Becuase they share the same model. Also, Ganondorf is the only one who has a move different from the copy. Toon Link had 4 plus the throws.

Anyway, I'd like to know your opinoin on what I posted a while back for the MOTHER boys and such.

I didn't see anything, so I'm not sure how far back it is. I'll comment if you can direct me to it.

EDIT:Saw it. Ness's was fine but that is more or less the fact it is an alteration of his current moveset. Lucas's is just awkward. There not much function. Why does he need any of those moves? How do they help his play style? This is what must be considered when making a moveset.

Also, why does it matter if they use Paula/Kumatora's moves. They aren't going to be in Smash, and we sit at installment 3.