[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ChronoBound]

I personally think Smash 4 will be Sakurai's next project after Kid Icarus Uprising. However, Sakurai is quite wily, so I don't know. The probability of Smash 4 being Sakurai's next project really hinges upon when Nintendo plans to release their next console.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I personally think Smash 4 will be Sakurai's next project after Kid Icarus Uprising. However, Sakurai is quite wily, so I don't know.

I hope so, I don't know what else he would have in mind. I really hope he stays though. The game just wouldn't feel the same without him at the wheel. It would lose that familiar Smash Bros. feel, and I wouldn't be able to handle that very well.

Speaking of biases, after Sakurai admitted to not knowing who Krystal was, would that make him slightly more biased to put her in, maybe to show that he isnt just in it for his own personal favorites?

You never know, i mean no one saw black and white coming. And its being released the same year it was annonced. It must have been worked on for quite some time and we just not know it. Nintendo is sneaky that way

I don't know, thats a bit of a stretch. I mean, we have no evidence that he is thinking that, so I wouldn't base any speculation on that. It's possible, but it isn't the case as far as we know.

True, but he's just finishing up Uprising. I don't think he's made any progress with another Smash Bros. besides possible mental notes.

 

[Pieman0920]

Judging on bias or lack of bias is virtually impossible, since none of you actually know Sakurai, assuming he's going to be the director. One could theorize that he is biased towards Star Fox by giving the series so many playable characters, but you could also point out the fact that he didn't know anything about the series post N64.

He could view Bowser Jr. as a type of clone, and that may cause him to not include him, or he could just include him anyways, clone or not. Certain people thought that Ike would be a clone, and certain people thought he wouldn't be one, and in the end he wasn't one. Certain people thought Toon Link would be a clone, and certain people thought he wouldn't be, and it the end he was one.

As far as Kid Icarus goes, there is also no real telling what Sakurai will do in regards to his representation in Smash. He could be biased towards the series and give it new characters, or he could take the stance that he had back in Melee about Kirby characters, and not want to try to overcrowd Smash with his own work. As it stands, Palutena, Medusa, some unknown character, or even the Eggplant Wizard could make a perfect Smash edition once Uprising is released, but we can't actually say anything about it until that happens. In the original game, Palutena just granted Pit some powers, and had to be rescued. In the original game, Medusa was just a gigantic face in a wall that shot snakes. Their new roles could be just as bland, or they could actually be more than that. As of now, we have no idea though, so its nearly pointless to speculate on how this will change things, especially in regards to playable characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

Based on what, his desire to bring the series as a whole back? There's zero indication that he has any particular interest in Palutena or Medusa, he hasn't talked about them at all in any of the KI interviews. There isn't even anything that suggests he'll be doing anything with this series after Uprising.

But Sakurai has a history of being biased towards a character he has worked with in the past. Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede were his creations but the only reason why he didn't add King Dedede and Meta Knight in the first two games are because he was modest and added other people's creations.

He used to be with HAL Laboratory at the time the company worked on Mother 3 (or EarthBound 64) so it is possible he was biased toward Lucas. But the only reason why he didn't add Lucas in tne first two games was because Mother 3 kept getting cancelled. But once Mother 3 finally came out, Lucas was finally added.

And now we have Pit in Brawl - he wasn't added in the first two games but I am willing to bet that Sakurai added Pit in Brawl to promote Kid Icarus Uprising that he was planning to make after he finishes developing Brawl. He even bothered to make time to redesign Pit, Palutena, and Medusa! I am sure Sakurai might want to make fans like the Kid Icarus cast by making them look awesome and be awesome in the new game... so once the game comes out, I think there will be an increase of demand for Palutena and Medusa for Smash. This increase of demand for both characters could justify Sakurai's decision to add them if he chooses to add them. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai said he added them because Smash needed more females, sparking fans to go crazy and request dozens of obscure and outdated female Nintendo characters like he did with Zero Suit Samus in Brawl.

What about Takamaru? Sakurai was biased towards him, he obviously likes the character. He wanted him to be playable in Smash but at the same time, he wanted to hold off until Takamaru got another game that did well. This never happened.

I agree with you that Sakurai's interests/bias has a lot to do with the final roster, but other factors come into play as well. Sakurai may decide to wait and see how his game does before throwing in Palutena or Medusa. That's why I think we should wait to see how the game does. Uprising may be the last we see of Kid Icarus for a while anyway, we don't know if Sakurai plans on continuing it. Chances are he doesn't. Just wait.

EDIT: Smash 4 probably won't begin development for a few years after Uprising anyway, so Sakurai might be a bit less "biased" by then.

At least Takamaru got a playable role in Samurai Warriors 3, an international game. He isn't exactly Japan-only anymore so I think Sakurai might want to add him in Smash now that more people know about him.

I really think that SSB4 would add some newcomers who are former Japan-only characters and/or international characters from former Japan-only franchises. Takamaru, Starfy, and Isa (not Saki) could be it. If you remember, Sakurai seem to imply that he would like to see more characters from character-driven franchises on the All-Star Mode page in the Dojo. So, of course Nintendo decided to make some Japan-only characters and/or franchises available in other regions and revive dead franchises with sequels.

 

[Shorts]

Here are all the games Bowser Jr. is in, now in the question is, in these games is he playing a more important role than toad? In most of the spin offs theyre playing equally unimportant roles.

Super Mario Sunshine
New Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tours
Mario Kart Double Dash!!
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Power Tennis
Mario superstar baseball
Mario Super sluggers
Mario hoops: 3 on 3
Mario Strikers: Charged football
Super Smash Bros Brawl (Trophy, stickers)
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games

and doesnt sakurai make the roster early on?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Judging on bias or lack of bias is virtually impossible, since none of you actually know Sakurai, assuming he's going to be the director. One could theorize that he is biased towards Star Fox by giving the series so many playable characters, but you could also point out the fact that he didn't know anything about the series post N64.

We aren't taking random guesses at what he is biased about based on his past actions. We're talking about actual comments that he's made that show his bias toward a character or series.

He could view Bowser Jr. as a type of clone, and that may cause him to not include him, or he could just include him anyways, clone or not. Certain people thought that Ike would be a clone, and certain people thought he wouldn't be one, and in the end he wasn't one. Certain people thought Toon Link would be a clone, and certain people thought he wouldn't be, and it the end he was one.

This is true, I forgot about Ike. Ike is pretty similar in appearance to Marth and Roy, even more similar than Toon Link is to Link, or Fox is to Falco. Yet, he isn't (completely) a clone. I guess it just depends on the potential Sakurai sees in a certain character.

And I agree with your comments on Kid Icarus. We should save speculation for later, it's a bit too early.

And now we have Pit in Brawl - he wasn't added in the first two games but I am willing to bet that Sakurai added Pit in Brawl to promote Kid Icarus Uprising that he was planning to make after he finishes developing Brawl. He even bothered to make time to redesign Pit, Palutena, and Medusa! I am sure Sakurai might want to make fans like the Kid Icarus cast by making them look awesome and be awesome in the new game... so once the game comes out, I think there will be an increase of demand for Palutena and Medusa for Smash. This increase of demand for both characters could justify Sakurai's decision to add them if he chooses to add them. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai said he added them because Smash needed more females, sparking fans to go crazy and request dozens of obscure and outdated female Nintendo characters like he did with Zero Suit Samus in Brawl.

Remember that Pit, along with Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Meowth, and King Dedede were originally supposed to be in SSB64. Notice that all of the characters have been in the series at some point (besides Meowth, because he is out of date and takes up space that could be used for newer/popular Pokemon like Mewtwo, Pichu, and Lucario). So, Sakurai wanted Pit in since 1998. I don't think he knew that he was going to be making a Kid Icarus game ten years later from that time.

And he redisigned the Ice Climbers too, didn't he? It's just that Pit has a lot more detail to his character that can be redesigned. Also, you're not going to revive a retro series from many years ago without redesigning the characters... that would just be stupid. And of course he tried to make them look awesome. I mean, it's his game, why wouldn't he? He didn't redesign them because he is absolutely in love with everything Pit, Meduss and Palutena, he redesigned them and made them look good because the series has skipped a few generations. They NEED an update.

At least Takamaru got a playable role in Samurai Warriors 3, an international game. He isn't exactly Japan-only anymore so I think Sakurai might want to add him in Smash now that more people know about him.

I really think that SSB4 would add some newcomers who are former Japan-only characters and/or international characters from former Japan-only franchises. Takamaru, Starfy, and Isa (not Saki) could be it. If you remember, Sakurai seem to imply that he would like to see more characters from character-driven franchises on the All-Star Mode page in the Dojo. So, of course Nintendo decided to make some Japan-only characters and/or franchises available in other regions and revive dead franchises with sequels.

I wasn't saying Takamaru doesn't have a chance to get in. He could get in, there is definitely a chance. Al I'm saying is, Sakurai's bias towards him hasn't seemed to help him in the past. So even though bias is important, it isn't the only factor in Sakurai's decisions.

 

[Big-Cat]

On another topic, I've been looking at the beta elements for Brawl; while a good chunk needs proof, i.e. the Diddy-Dixie pairing, it's a good read nonetheless and they suggest that we would've gotten a different game had things going according to plan.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256915

Then there's Samurai Panda's theory as to why the game is the way it is: the online play.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171207

 

[Pieman0920]

In Sunshine, Toad may or may not be in the game, and Bowser Jr. is the main villain.
In NSMB, Toad doesn't have a major role, and Bowser Jr. is the main villain.
In NSMBWii, regular Toad doesn't have a real role, while different Toads receive playable status in multiplayer. Bowser Jr. is the second in command.
In Super Mario Galaxy (1 or 2), Toad may or may not be in the game, and Bowser Jr. is the second in command.
In Toadstool Tour, Toad isn't playable, while Bowser Jr. is a secret character.
In MK DD, Toad is a secret character, while Bowser Jr. is a starting character.
In MK Wii its the opposite, with Toad as a starting character and Bowser Jr. as a secret character.
In Mario Power Tennis and Mario Hoops 3-on-3, Toad isn't playable while Bowser Jr. is.
In both Mario Baseball games, and the Strikers Charged, Toad is a team player, while Bowser Jr. is a captain.
In Mario & Sonic, Toad isn't playable, and Bowser Jr. eventually is in the Winter Games.

Even in the spin offs, Bowser Jr. has a larger role than Toad.

 

[Shorts]

In Sunshine, Toad may or may not be in the game, and Bowser Jr. is the main villain.
In NSMB, Toad doesn't have a major role, and Bowser Jr. is the main villain.
In NSMBWii, regular Toad doesn't have a real role, while different Toads receive playable status in multiplayer. Bowser Jr. is the second in command.
In Super Mario Galaxy (1 or 2), Toad may or may not be in the game, and Bowser Jr. is the second in command.
In Toadstool Tour, Toad isn't playable, while Bowser Jr. is a secret character.
In MK DD, Toad is a secret character, while Bowser Jr. is a starting character.
In MK Wii its the opposite, with Toad as a starting character and Bowser Jr. as a secret character.
In Mario Power Tennis and Mario Hoops 3-on-3, Toad isn't playable while Bowser Jr. is.
In both Mario Baseball games, and the Strikers Charged, Toad is a team player, while Bowser Jr. is a captain.
In Mario & Sonic, Toad isn't playable, and Bowser Jr. eventually is in the Winter Games.

Even in the spin offs, Bowser Jr. has a larger role than Toad.

Yet, i still can see Sakurai choosing Toad over Bowser Jr. because of the whole nostalgic thing. I mean toad has been around much longer, and Sakurai seems to like older game characters like the ice climbers.

 

[Arcadenik]

Eggplant Wizard, Pieman? He is a generic enemy. He is better off as an Assist Trophy where he turns characters into walking eggplants.

Also, note that Bowser Jr. never fights Mario in the main games except for NSMB. What I meant is that Bowser Jr. is always fighting Mario in a vechicle or a mech while Bowser always fights Mario in close combat except in SMW and SMS. I think this is pretty bad for Bowser Jr. as he is pretty much a blank slate that Sakurai might have to make him a clone of Bowser just to give him a moveset.

Toad, at least, is best known for SMB2 for 20 years and now NSMBWii that he could get moves based on these two games. Sakurai seems fixated on SMB2 when it comes to Toad's trophies that I think he might want to make a moveset based on SMB2... and I think NSMBWii would provide more material to work with for Toad's moveset.

Plus I think Toad has better marketability than Bowser Jr. does. No one really cares about Bowser Jr. unless Bowser is in the picture. Toad gets attention whether he is alone or with the gang. Even Toad is included in that Mario figurine that is being given out to Platinum members of Club Nintendo and I don't see Bowser Jr. anywhere. Toad is just more marketable than Bowser Jr. Who is going to make Nintendo fans and casual gamers more excited? Toad or Bowser Jr.?

 

[Pieman0920]

On another topic, I've been looking at the beta elements for Brawl; while a good chunk needs proof, i.e. the Diddy-Dixie pairing, it's a good read nonetheless and they suggest that we would've gotten a different game had things going according to plan.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256915

Then there's Samurai Panda's theory as to why the game is the way it is: the online play.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171207

That was very interesting. X-Parasites and Hover platforms? Damage effects? I wonder if these things could be considered possible additions for a future game. Also its strange that Dixie was likely the furthest in development rather than Mewtwo.

I kind of want to know what the deal with those missing trophies are, especially the ones that can still be viewed.


@Shortie: Sakurai chose the Ice Climbers because they presented a unique play style, not because they were simply old. By that logic, he would have tried to get Ninten in over Ness back in 64, or something like that.

@Arc: Toad barely ever fights either, and even if he stays in a mech most of the time, Bowser Jr. is still very combative, so that argument is completely moot. The marketability thing also doesn't hold water, and means jack for both characters really. Bowser Jr. isn't a stand alone character, but neither is Toad. His only game was called Wario Woods for a reason, y'know. And even if we are to assume that Bowser Jr. can only operate if Bowser is there, that's not a problem, because Bowser IS there. And a little figurine that only a few people will get to own doesn't take away from Bowser Jr's role in. There's a goomba there too, so why not add in him?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/ssbb/index.html

check the ones that say Trophy Previews

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Pieman

Actually, Sakurai said that he wanted a character to represent the Famicom era (implying that he wanted a character because they were old) but he specifically chose Ice Climbers over Bubbles, Excitebike, Urban Champion, and Balloon Fighter because they had more stuff to work with and could actually function as Smash fighters.

It is also interesting to note that Pit wasn't even considered to represent the Famicom era... could it be that Sakurai had other ideas for Pit and the Kid Icarus series even back in 2000-01? The plot thickens...

EDIT

Now you are being stupid. A Goomba? Seriously? Sakurai made it crystal clear that if a character lacks limbs, they won't be considered. I love how you keep forgetting this every time you try to degrade Toad's importance to a generic enemy's.

 

[Shorts]

Bowser Jr has a chance to be a clone, but think about it, Bowser uses his: Fire breath, thowing his weight around, and spiky shell in the ssb series.

Bowser Junior's fire is completely different than bowsers. Its small, and shoots out a single flame.
He cant throw his weight around considering he is around the same weight class as mario. Look at Mario Kart Wii as proof.
His shell had small rounded spikes. So, unless you think someone pressing a putter knife to you hurts, i would say the shell spin would have to be more like the one he uses in NSMBW.

On top of this, he has his paintbrush, which he could easily use as a weapon.

@Toise, wait.. why is there melee stuff in those trophy sprites? What are you getting at?

 

[ChronoBound]

Remember that Pit, along with Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Meowth, and King Dedede were originally supposed to be in SSB64. Notice that all of the characters have been in the series at some point (besides Meowth, because he is out of date and takes up space that could be used for newer/popular Pokemon like Mewtwo, Pichu, and Lucario). So, Sakurai wanted Pit in since 1998. I don't think he knew that he was going to be making a Kid Icarus game ten years later from that time.

The only characters that Sakurai intended to put in Smash 64 were Bowser, Mewtwo, and King Dedede. Everything else is just rumors or flat out false.

Same thing with Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem character. The Sigurd fans said that Sakurai supposedly said that Sigurd was his favorite Fire Emblem character, yet when an independent translation was done, it was discovered that his favorite Fire Emblem character was Nabarl from FE1/FE3/FE11/FE12.

There is so much heresay and rumors about Sakurai's opinions or statements that unless I see an actual link to it, I would stay away from it.

 

[Big-Cat]

That was very interesting. X-Parasites and Hover platforms? Damage effects? I wonder if these things could be considered possible additions for a future game. Also its strange that Dixie was likely the furthest in development rather than Mewtwo.

We've never had proof that Dixie was the furthest in development. That came from that person who said that the info was from a Famitsu interview that was never found.

http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/ssbb/index.html

check the ones that say Trophy Previews

That's just so weird. From the looks of things, Sakurai was planning something similar to the PC trophies in Melee: Classic, Melee, and then a Brawl trophy (Because the 64 ones look like crap).

What I find strange is that Mewtwo has two trophies from Melee.

 

[Shorts]

This is all i have to say about toad.

This quote was taken from super mario wiki, its discussing Toads appearence in Mario and Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games.

"He also appears in the sequel, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games which features him again as a referee. However in the DS version of the game, Toad appears in the story mode and is the first person for Mario & Sonic to meet in Frostown. He excitedly joins their party, acting mainly as a guide for the adventure (Toad states himself that he will not be able to do much once he agrees to join them). "

It just seems silly to think that Toad didnt get a playable spot when Mario is representing his series, against a rival series. However Bowser Jr made a playable appearence.

 

[Pieman0920]

@ Pieman
Now you are being stupid. A Goomba? Seriously? Sakurai made it crystal clear that if a character lacks limbs, they won't be considered. I love how you keep forgetting this every time you try to degrade Toad's importance to a generic enemy's.

You took that literally? Your reason for Toad being a better choice than Bowser Jr. was based around something that insignificant, A Goomba was also in there though, so I just pointed it out to you, since by the logic you were going with, the Goomba would also be valid choice. Despite this, you actually took it as a literal suggestion from me for it to be playable?

Spoiler

Actually despite their lack of arms, Goombas can actually pick up things, as seen in the Mario baseball games

But anyways, I suppose its true that Sakurai was specifically looking for a retro character there, but it still stands that he picked the ICs due to their potential. I still can't see how its bias or anything, considering the fact that there were no retro characters prior.

@Toise: Thanks. I had actually stumbled across that prior, but I never actually thought that it had cut trophies in there...even if it seems most were from Melee.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Toise, wait.. why is there melee stuff in those trophy sprites? What are you getting at?

Pieman wanted to see them

That's just so weird. From the looks of things, Sakurai was planning something similar to the PC trophies in Melee: Classic, Melee, and then a Brawl trophy (Because the 64 ones look like crap).

What I find strange is that Mewtwo has two trophies from Melee.

Pretty sure they're holdovers from Melee data or something since there's zero rhyme or reason to their placement.

There is so much heresay and rumors about Sakurai's opinions or statements that unless I see an actual link to it, I would stay away from it.

This is the correct answer for everything.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here are some things that Sakurai has actually said. This comes from the Sakurai interview in the May 2008 issue of Nintendo Power:

Nintendo Power: How did you go about choosing which characters to include in the final roster? Were there any characters that you really wish you could have included, but weren't able to for whatever reason?[/I]

Sakurai:Of course there were some characters that we couldn't include, but we've decided that we're not going to talk about them. [Laughs]

As far as choosing which characters, we had to really look at the series that would be represented in the game and create a balance that would make fans of all the series happy. We didn't want to have all Mario characters, all Pokemon characters... We looked at each series and tried to pick the characters that would have the widest appeal to the largest fan base. And of course, we looked at games like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, where there aren't really any characters that lend themselves to fighting, and we decided not to include characters from those series as fighting characters.

One thing that was kind of a challenge is that we haven't had a lot of new characters from Nintendo since Captain Olimar [that could work well in a fighting game]; a lot of games have been Mario titles or new iterations of existing series.


Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]


Nintendo Power: We're just glad he made it into the Subspace Emissary. You've talked previously about how Solid Snake ended up in the game, but how about Sonic? How did his inclusion come about?

Sakurai: At the time we announced Snake, we actually put together a survey for our users, asking which characters they would like to see in the game. And a huge amount of people said Sonic, especially in the United States. So in order to satisfy our fans, I thought it was a good idea to try to include Sonic. But that was the thing that put the whole process in motion.

 

[BirthNote]

He cant throw his weight around considering he is around the same weight class as mario. Look at Mario Kart Wii as proof.

I would like to point out that Bowser Jr.'s size changes like his father's. In Mario Galaxy, he is bigger than Peach, and he has that same size in Galaxy 2.

Also, in Sunshine, he was smaller than Peach. I would've said that his changing size has something to do with him growing up, but in the spinoff games and the New Super Mario's, he's the same weight class as Mario.

 

[PF9]

The next game will probably have a stage based off of Kirby's Epic Yarn. Some of the songs will inevitably be from that game, but I also have an idea for an alternate song that is from another Kirby game.

It would be a medley of four songs from Kirby's Adventure, in the following order:
Ending sequence (after defeating the second form of Nightmare)
Green Greens (the faster paced version of the theme, which played on the end credits of Kirby's Adventure)
The song from the first part of the intro sequence ("first you draw a circle...")
Title screen music

The name of the song would be "Ending/Credits/Title (Kirby's Adventure)".

 

[jrmac37]

I haven't really been around the boards in a while, what's the consensus on Geno lately? I know he had a lot of fans wanting him in in Brawl, but that obviously didn't happen.

I wonder if Square would even let Niintendo use Geno. I guess they did let Nintendo use him in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, but that was just a cameo in a minigame.

I think he would be a very interesting character with lots of potential moves. At first I didn't even know who he was or why he had such a big fan base, and that actually made me to buy Super Mario RPG for the Virtual Console. It was a great game and I think Geno was a great character, but to be honest I still don't see why he was so popular, I do think that he would still make a good addition who would be easy to create a unique moveset for though.

 

[BBQTV]

geno is ****ed

 

[Shorts]

Meh, I like Geno a lot, but he probably isnt a great candidate. I mean, you can never tell if square and nintendo are on good terms or not.

 

[jrmac37]

Yeah, that's true, it would be really cool if he did make it in though. I always wondered why he was such a popular character though.

I guess there are a lot of other candidates that are higher up on the list then Geno though, but you never know, it ultimately comes down to Sakurai, and then Square.

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, that's true, it would be really cool if he did make it in though. I always wondered why he was such a popular character though.

I guess there are a lot of other candidates that are higher up on the list then Geno though, but you never know, it ultimately comes down to Sakurai, and then Square.

True, but if Sakurai doesnt know about the character, or isnt a fan, chances are they wont get in. I mean at this point we have all the main characters from each series. Now were just getting extras and new franchises, so he can say no and not get too much lashback. I mean its not like he would be leavng out someone like Samus. Nintendo cant get mad if he leaves out someone as obscure as Geno, so youre right! It truely comes down to him,

 

[BBQTV]

and geno fans are the only ones who care about geno

 

[jrmac37]

and geno fans are the only ones who care about geno

Isn't that how it goes for most characters? haha

 

[Shorts]

Isn't that how it goes for most characters? haha

Haha Yea, but his fanbase has died down since pre brawl, am i right?

I used to root for him, but i mean i was like 13 back then soo I also liked a lot of stupid things! Haha Blaziken. >.>

 

[jrmac37]

Haha Yea, but his fanbase has died down since pre brawl, am i right?

Yeah, his fanbase definitely isn't even close to as strong as it was and it probably will never be as high as it was at its peak ever again.

A lot of characters completely dropped off the radar after Brawl was released, which kind of sucks, because even though some characters were horrible ideas in the first place, some of them will probably never have as good of a chance of making it into a Smash Bros. game as they did.

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, his fanbase definitely isn't even close to as strong as it was and it probably will never be as high as it was at its peak ever again.

Thats what i think too, same goes for Deoxys, Gardevior and unfortunetly Vaati i dont see them having much of a chance anymore. At one point they were on top of their own series rep list. And for sure, Deoxys and Gardevior wont have another peak like they did. Vaati *crosses his fingers* could come back in another Zelda game!

 

[jrmac37]

Thats what i think too, same goes for Deoxys, Gardevior and unfortunetly Vaati i dont see them having much of a chance anymore. At one point they were on top of their own series rep list. And for sure, Deoxys and Gardevior wont have another peak like they did. Vaati *crosses his fingers* could come back in another Zelda game!

I'm with you on that, older generation Pokemon besides first generation probably will never have another shot of making it in, just because they are only popular for the period of time between when their game is released and the next Pokemon game comes out.

I've never really been a big fan of Vaati just because I don't think he's important enough to the series even though I could see him having a very cool and unique moveset. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in a future Zelda game though, but I'm not sure if this would boost his chances all that much. He's still fairly obscure, so he probably won't make it in, but you can always dream, right? haha

 

[Shorts]

I'm with you on that, older generation Pokemon besides first generation probably will never have another shot of making it in, just because they are only popular for the period of time between when their game is released and the next Pokemon game comes out.

I've never really been a big fan of Vaati just because I don't think he's important enough to the series even though I could see him having a very cool and unique moveset. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in a future Zelda game though, but I'm not sure if this would boost his chances all that much. He's still fairly obscure, so he probably won't make it in, but you can always dream, right? haha

At this point, unless hes in Lozskyward sword, you can kiss his chances goodbye. Same with Toon Zelda/Tetra. I mean, The main Zelda series take priority over the toon zelda series.

 

[Arcadenik]

and geno fans are the only ones who care about geno

Quoted for truth.

Sakurai is not trying to attract Geno fans to Smash. He is trying to attract fans of the WHOLE Mario series to Smash, not attract fans of ONE Mario game that will be almost 20 years old by the time SSB4 comes around. Sakurai isn't even trying to attract Square Enix fans to Smash, he wants to attract Nintendo fans and casual gamers (to make new Nintendo fans out of them) to Smash.

 

[Shorts]

Quoted for truth.

Sakurai is not trying to attract Geno fans to Smash. He is trying to attract fans of the WHOLE Mario series to Smash, not attract fans of ONE Mario game that will be almost 20 years old by the time SSB4 comes around. Sakurai isn't even trying to attract Square Enix fans to Smash, he wants to attract Nintendo fans and casual gamers (to make new Nintendo fans out of them) to Smash.

Sakurai SHOULD be trying to attract fans in general. I know nintendo is, because more fans means more money. Which is probably part of the reason Sonic got in.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Does anyone else expect to see Pokemon represented in SSB4 something like this?

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Mewtwo
-Zoroark

Pikachu and Jigglypuff have been with Smash from the beginning, I don't see them leaving anytime soon. The first generation starter Pokemon are the most recognizable/familiar Pokemon and still somewhat popular, so I expect them to stay. But what about Mewtwo and a Generation V representative?

I don't think Lucario will be staying. Three first generation representatives, a representative of the latest generation, and a random generation IV representative just doesn't seem right. Generation I is still pretty popular and very recognizable, and Mewtwo is by far the most wanted Pokemon for Smash, even more than a great number of new, popular Pokemon. I think he has a pretty good chance of getting back in. But, we still need representation for the latest generation.

Smash has to keep up with the rest of the series that it includes. That includes Pokemon. In Melee we got Pichu. In Brawl we got Lucario. I know it's somewhat early, but I'm placing my bets on Zoroark.

If we only see four slots for Pokemon though, I wouldn't expect to see Mewtwo. We should expect any of the following to happen:

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Mewtwo
-Zoroark

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Lucario
-Zoroark

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Zoroark


Thoughts? Comments?

 

[LostAddict]

Pretty sure Lucario is a goner. I would be pretty surprised if he returned. He's pretty flavour of the month kinda deal, I wouldn't be surprised if they replaced him back with Mewtwo, and introduced another pokemon, which would probably be zoroark. Or they could skip the Mewtwo replacement and just manage to make Zoroark a clone of Lucario. In any scenario, I think it's a safe assumption to say Lucario won't return. I would wager he's the only character from Brawl who will end up being removed.

 

[Clownbot]

I see it more as being like this:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
5th Gen Pokemon (doesn't necessarily have to be Zoro)

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
5th Gen

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Mewtwo
5th Gen

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
5th Gen

I personally don't think Lucario has much a chance of returning... at all, lol, but if he were to here are a few various ways it could go:

Brawl Pokemon roster + 5th Gen

^ This, minus PT

Brawl roster -PT +Mewtwo and 5th Gen

Last two are a bit far fetched, I know.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pikachu is definitely a shoe-in, no doubt about it.

Jigglypuff is a bit iffy considering that she was a late addition in Brawl, meaning that Sakurai originally removed her but decided to add her back to buff the roster because she was quicker and easier to animate and program than Mewtwo. I think Jigglypuff will return only if Sakurai needs someone to buff the roster in the last minute again.

Pokemon Trainer is probably a bit iffy, too. It is possible that he will return with all the 1st gen starters and it is also possible that he and his Pokemon will be replaced with a new Pokemon Trainer and starters from either 2nd gen or 5th gen.

Lucario is probably gone now, especially when you consider the fact that he was the flavor of the month at the time Brawl was being developed and Zoroark is now being set up as the flavor of the month. He may return with Zoroark or he might be replaced with Zoroark. Personally, I would like to see him replaced with Zoroark.

Mewtwo is probably gone for good, but it is also possible that he might return due to fan demand and Sakurai might want to calm down these fans. I personally don't really care if he doesn't come back because I would like to see new Pokemon characters instead of rehasing the same old ones.

Here's my Pokemon roster:

1. Pikachu
2. Pokemon Trainer (1st gen or 2nd gen or 5th gen)
3. Zoroark or another 5th gen movie Pokemon
4. Mewtwo or Lucario or Jigglypuff or a new Pokemon
5. Mewtwo or Lucario or Jigglypuff or a new Pokemon

One more thing, Meowth for SSB4!!!