[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Circa]

I hate it when people use Ridley's size as an excuse to not include him. Hate it hate it hate it. Olimar was the size of a quarter in his game, and proportions between characters don't matter: look at Pikachu and Mewtwo in Melee. Canonically Mewtwo should be much larger than Pikachu. Also, Ridley coud easily be of a large size if he's hunched over on the ground, and he spreads his wings into the background in the air. Besides, why does Ridley looking stupid or whatever matter? Clearly Ridley gets a massive amount of support from people who don't mind his size, and I doubt that you Ridley haters would have the entire roster ruined by a smaller Ridley. Ridley should have been in since Melee, and his size is a completely ridiculous and arbitrary argument.

Well if you hate it so much, then I take your opinion in the debate as biased, and thus I think you should stop while you're behind. No offense, just...yeah.

You see, Ridley actually happens to be my favorite among all villains that have ever been in gaming existence. So OBVIOUSLY I'm not a Ridley hater. I just call it like I see it, and the way I see it is that Ridley just doesn't fit into the game. I mean seriously, have you ever considered WHY Sakurai hasn't included the second most recognizable character of the Metroid series, when he has included the likes of Lucas and other such representatives from less popular games, into the series? I can almost guarantee that the reason isn't because he is spiteful of Ridley or because he just hates the Metroid series in general, but because Ridley just can't be put in the game in a way that actually MAKES SENSE for the flow of the game. I mean seriously, go look up a few pictures of Ridley and go play a few games that include Ridley in them. Hell, you can even take him on in boss battles in Brawl if you'd like. You might notice that the way Ridley acts and naturally is just doesn't really fit into the mechanics of Smash. I was happy that they just included him in Boss Battles, and in all honesty, I think that Ridley may have just been the reason why they included that feature in the first place (I don't really see many other boss characters that are worthy of the representation, after all...)

And as for your little thing about looks: I could give a **** less about what he looks like and all that, but if he's going to be Ridley, he better look like him, and he better act at least a bit like him. You can't do that and add him into Smash though. Now, if Smash would have been a more Street Fighter-esque game (HP bar, slow feet movement, aerial combos, side-barriers...), then yes, I could see him getting in with few, if any issues. But Smash isn't like that, so you'll have to deal.

And if you really want me to debate about the size thing, then once again I'll say it: despite their sizes being so different in their own respective games, they are kept on an eye-pleasing scale within Smash. Mewtwo, although not 5x the size of Pika (or whatever the difference is), he is still taller by a rather good amount. Olimar also falls under this, because he happens to be shorter than a good majority of the cast. Samus, however, is among the tallest in the cast iirc, and Ridley is supposed to be a decent bit bigger than that to stay eye-pleasing and semi-logical. I'm sorry, but doing that just won't flow.

EDIT: If you want to fight for a more usable representative from the Metroid series that has been around since the beginning (or at least since Super Metroid...idk if they were in the original because I never played it), then you could always try the Space Pirate. It's got a past, it would be easy to transfer over, and its moveset could be mad good if they did it right. This one may not seem very likely obviously, considering Sylux, but it could be an arguably good rep for older school Metroid, imo. Just something to throw out there...

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Well if you hate it so much, then I take your opinion in the debate as biased, and thus I think you should stop while you're behind. No offense, just...yeah.

You see, Ridley actually happens to be my favorite among all villains that have ever been in gaming existence. So OBVIOUSLY I'm not a Ridley hater. I just call it like I see it, and the way I see it is that Ridley just doesn't fit into the game. I mean seriously, have you ever considered WHY Sakurai hasn't included the second most recognizable character of the Metroid series, when he has included the likes of Lucas and other such representatives from less popular games, into the series? I can almost guarantee that the reason isn't because he is spiteful of Ridley or because he just hates the Metroid series in general, but because Ridley just can't be put in the game in a way that actually MAKES SENSE for the flow of the game. I mean seriously, go look up a few pictures of Ridley and go play a few games that include Ridley in them. Hell, you can even take him on in boss battles in Brawl if you'd like. You might notice that the way Ridley acts and naturally is just doesn't really fit into the mechanics of Smash. I was happy that they just included him in Boss Battles, and in all honesty, I think that Ridley may have just been the reason why they included that feature in the first place (I don't really see many other boss characters that are worthy of the representation, after all...)

And as for your little thing about looks: I could give a **** less about what he looks like and all that, but if he's going to be Ridley, he better look like him, and he better act at least a bit like him. You can't do that and add him into Smash though. Now, if Smash would have been a more Street Fighter-esque game (HP bar, slow feet movement, aerial combos, side-barriers...), then yes, I could see him getting in with few, if any issues. But Smash isn't like that, so you'll have to deal.

And if you really want me to debate about the size thing, then once again I'll say it: despite their sizes being so different in their own respective games, they are kept on an eye-pleasing scale within Smash. Mewtwo, although not 5x the size of Pika (or whatever the difference is), he is still taller by a rather good amount. Olimar also falls under this, because he happens to be shorter than a good majority of the cast. Samus, however, is among the tallest in the cast iirc, and Ridley is supposed to be a decent bit bigger than that to stay eye-pleasing and semi-logical. I'm sorry, but doing that just won't flow.

EDIT: If you want to fight for a more usable representative from the Metroid series that has been around since the beginning (or at least since Super Metroid...idk if they were in the original because I never played it), then you could always try the Space Pirate. It's got a past, it would be easy to transfer over, and its moveset could be mad good if they did it right. This one may not seem very likely obviously, considering Sylux, but it could be an arguably good rep for older school Metroid, imo. Just something to throw out there...

Mario the Jumpman:

If Ridley's size is going to become such a huge arguement, would each of you mind posting a picture of what you think Ridley would look like if he was Samus's size (if this forum allows its users to post drawings or something)?

 

[sundayseclipse]

or he wasnt put in becuase he fited in the boss section and prbly is teling us maby in the next game . i think ridley should be in ssb4, his fans demend it.


oh yah btw to who ever asked who asked me who misdravious is (think i spelled it wrong)
its

i said she would be a suitable pokemon for FPT


btw stop double posting jumpman theres a thing called the edit button

 

[Wizzerd]

Well if you hate it so much, then I take your opinion in the debate as biased, and thus I think you should stop while you're behind. No offense, just...yeah.

Actually, I'm not biased. Biased would be saying that I want Ridley in/not in because of my personal opinion. What I was trying to communicate was that I consider the argument of characters not fitting in is a horrible one, and I'm sure many people would agree with me there. Maybe that's bias, but than everything is biased... so no.

You see, Ridley actually happens to be my favorite among all villains that have ever been in gaming existence. So OBVIOUSLY I'm not a Ridley hater. I just call it like I see it, and the way I see it is that Ridley just doesn't fit into the game. I mean seriously, have you ever considered WHY Sakurai hasn't included the second most recognizable character of the Metroid series, when he has included the likes of Lucas and other such representatives from less popular games, into the series? I can almost guarantee that the reason isn't because he is spiteful of Ridley or because he just hates the Metroid series in general, but because Ridley just can't be put in the game in a way that actually MAKES SENSE for the flow of the game. I mean seriously, go look up a few pictures of Ridley and go play a few games that include Ridley in them. Hell, you can even take him on in boss battles in Brawl if you'd like. You might notice that the way Ridley acts and naturally is just doesn't really fit into the mechanics of Smash. I was happy that they just included him in Boss Battles, and in all honesty, I think that Ridley may have just been the reason why they included that feature in the first place (I don't really see many other boss characters that are worthy of the representation, after all...)

I'm saying that you're a hater of him in Smash terms. No need for the OBVIOUSLY. Since when have characters needed to fit into the game? Once you think about it, NOTHING fits in Smash. Mario fights by jumping on the heads of minions. Does that make him out of place when he fights Link with punches and kicks? No. There have always been creative liberties in how characters function in Smash, as they all originate from different series. It's just ridiculous to claim that canonicity is not big issue, as we have an obscure NES promotional item with no abilities other than shooting disks and rotating his arms, and he can fight d*mn fine in Smash and be very high on the tier list.

And as for your little thing about looks: I could give a **** less about what he looks like and all that, but if he's going to be Ridley, he better look like him, and he better act at least a bit like him. You can't do that and add him into Smash though. Now, if Smash would have been a more Street Fighter-esque game (HP bar, slow feet movement, aerial combos, side-barriers...), then yes, I could see him getting in with few, if any issues. But Smash isn't like that, so you'll have to deal.

No, it was your little thing about looks. You were the one who began to complain that Ridley IZ 2 BIG when the issue has been addressed millions of times before and that he doesn't fit because he wouldn't look good at a Smash size. Also, while a large character can be difficult to balance, it's possible to balance any pro with an equivalent con. That's how Smash works.

And if you really want me to debate about the size thing, then once again I'll say it: despite their sizes being so different in their own respective games, they are kept on an eye-pleasing scale within Smash. Mewtwo, although not 5x the size of Pika (or whatever the difference is), he is still taller by a rather good amount. Olimar also falls under this, because he happens to be shorter than a good majority of the cast. Samus, however, is among the tallest in the cast iirc, and Ridley is supposed to be a decent bit bigger than that to stay eye-pleasing and semi-logical. I'm sorry, but doing that just won't flow.

This seems like an appropriate time to post this:
http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs37/f/2008/249/3/5/Brawl_Height_Chart_by_drag0nscythe.jpg
(by drag0nscythe)
Yeah, he's quite large, but not in a ridiculous way at all.

EDIT: If you want to fight for a more usable representative from the Metroid series that has been around since the beginning (or at least since Super Metroid...idk if they were in the original because I never played it), then you could always try the Space Pirate. It's got a past, it would be easy to transfer over, and its moveset could be mad good if they did it right. This one may not seem very likely obviously, considering Sylux, but it could be an arguably good rep for older school Metroid, imo. Just something to throw out there...

What? How does a generic enemy with no popularity nor any significance to match other characters have any priority as a new Metroid rep? You could have at least mentioned Dark Samus, though she pales in comparison to Ridley.

 

[SmashChu]

On Ridley's size.

Yes, he can work in Brawl. I don't like the size people suggested, but I think he could work. There isn't anything wrong with a slightly bigger character as long as he has other attributes.

 

[Starphoenix]

I know we love Ridley and all... But has anyone fought him in the boss mode lately? It isn't about size, it's about "feasibility". Plus he couldn't climb ladders. lol

I want Dark Samus, she could represent the Prime trilogy as a whole. Even though she is dead in the game, still, Prime is such a part of video game history that at least it could be represented by more than a stage.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Does that make him out of place when he fights Link with punches and kicks?

This may just be me, but I'm pretty sure Mario used punches and kicks in Super Mario 64, the game which I'm guessing those kicks originated from me.

What? How does a generic enemy with no popularity nor any significance to match other characters have any priority as a new Metroid rep? You could have at least mentioned Dark Samus, though she pales in comparison to Ridley.

I would sooner see a Space Pirate in SSB4 than Ridley; they would be easier to implement than Ridley, and would have less chance to be a Luigi-fied clone than Dark Samus would be. Heck, I'd rather see Meta Ridley than Ridley.
Also, where is the rule that states that enemies from games can't be in Smash, because if you find it, post a link please?

If anyone here posts the picture of Ridley and Samus from the SSBM intro to show how he could fit into SSB4 I'll cry, then throw foam darts at them.....

 

[rockem7]

If all else fails, couldn't Ridley be an AT due to his size/whatever else disadvantages he may have?
And I don't know too much about Dark Samus, but that does seem to sound like she'd be a clone.

Back to Ridley...
If he made it into SSB4, size and all, wouldn't he be a bit slow, and the fact previously stated by timssu, he never/rarely touches the ground?
I could understand maybe trying to upgrade arial combat because of it, but, how would Ridley attack someone on the ground? Just pull a super sonic and start swooping around?

Also, how would his flight mechanics work? Would his wing beats work similar to Pit's?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

If all else fails, couldn't Ridley be an AT due to his size/whatever else disadvantages he may have?
And I don't know too much about Dark Samus, but that does seem to sound like she'd be a clone.

Back to Ridley...
If he made it into SSB4, size and all, wouldn't he be a bit slow, and the fact previously stated by timssu, he never/rarely touches the ground?
I could understand maybe trying to upgrade arial combat because of it, but, how would Ridley attack someone on the ground? Just pull a super sonic and start swooping around?

Also, how would his flight mechanics work? Would his wing beats work similar to Pit's?

Mario the Jumpman:

About Ridley not touching the ground or being able to climb ladders, couldn't Sakurai make it so the pteradactyl can do both of those things and be a bit more ground-oriented? Ridley could even be redesigned a bit or make it so he has a son (or daughter), who is Samus's size, with all body parts proportioned right and can do the two things I listed in the first sentence in this paragraph that some people think he cannot do.

By the way, Sakurai's last name is pronounced like this: "Soccer Eye"

 

[Zane the pure]

How about Masahiro Sakurai as a Character, ehh anyone?

 

[Shadow Huan]

The girl in that image looks more like a Zora than Midna in my opinion, but I can definitely see the resemblance between the two.

Yeah... it does look like a Zora... or a cross between the two characters...

I doubt this new character has a chance at getting in SSB4 unless they become really important or popular, as someone as popular as Midna didn't get in SSBB, and I'm guessing the Midna fanboys will rage against her if she is Link's helper for the new game.

*RAGES*

Many think it is the ghost of the master sword, and that she is the master sword. Look at her legs and the gem on her chest. It resembles the masterswords textures.

5. Have Midna Return as a minor cameo character. Make her like a sexy witch in a swamp who has a pet wolf Companion that Link has to go talk to. Maybe have a quest or something.

And with number 5, Wolf Link and Midna would be a viable option for SSB4 again. Even with the cameo and different part of the story, people would go back to her most iconic role instead of using the new one.

Interesting. I'm behind it. Midna for SSB4! (If I'm still playing by the time the frickin thing is released...

No, then we'd have Wolf Link as a playable character in what isn't the most recent Zelda game and a cameo in another. Say what you want about Wolf Link being cool or whatever, but there are better options for a new Zelda representative.

Also, Zelda just isn't Zelda without Tingle.

BOOO!

Tingle is not the better option. He never will be.
Zelda is Zelda without Tingle. It is more fun, not as aggravating (Tri-force map quest) and not as silly.

Wolf Link tied to Link as a transformation (Zero Suit Samus style) would work great.

YUP. Final Smash? Meh kind of a waste. *HMMMM*

I know we love Ridley and all... But has anyone fought him in the boss mode lately? It isn't about size, it's about "feasibility". Plus he couldn't climb ladders. lol

I want Dark Samus, she could represent the Prime trilogy as a whole. Even though she is dead in the game, still, Prime is such a part of video game history that at least it could be represented by more than a stage.

Ridley and Dark Samus son. the more the merrier!

 

[Jimnymebob]

Mario the Jumpman:

Ridley could even be redesigned a bit or make it so he has a son (or daughter), who is Samus's size

I lol'd at this, thanks for giving me my second laugh of the day .

I know we love Ridley and all... But has anyone fought him in the boss mode lately? It isn't about size, it's about "feasibility". Plus he couldn't climb ladders. lol

So you're saying there's a choice between keeping ladders, or having Ridley?
I'd keep the freaking ladders .

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

SSB4 Item Idea

The Iron Ball from Pokemon.

The fighter holding it has their speed cut in half while holding it,, but does high damage and launch distance when thrown at opponents.

 

[Jimnymebob]

The Iron Ball from Pokemon.

The fighter holding it has their speed cut in half while holding it,, but does high damage and launch distance when thrown at opponents.

Isn't that what Bonsly does?

How about something like Leftovers (being the opposite of Lips Stick), or Shell Bell (it attaches to you like a Franklin Badge; each time you hit someone you recover 1% damage, but lose the item if someone hits you)?

 

[Wizzerd]

This may just be me, but I'm pretty sure Mario used punches and kicks in Super Mario 64, the game which I'm guessing those kicks originated from me.

Actually, you are right. It was a pretty bad example. My point is that, in Smash, characters just don't act like they're supposed to.

Back to Ridley...
If he made it into SSB4, size and all, wouldn't he be a bit slow, and the fact previously stated by timssu, he never/rarely touches the ground?
I could understand maybe trying to upgrade arial combat because of it, but, how would Ridley attack someone on the ground? Just pull a super sonic and start swooping around?

Also, how would his flight mechanics work? Would his wing beats work similar to Pit's?

That's a pretty terrible excuse to not include Ridley. Captain Falcon never leaves the ground, and I *think* that Ness and Lucas couldn't jump in Mother. Hell, do most of the characters in Brawl not fit because most of them are unable to double jump, not to mention all of the attacks they never used? Smash is not meant to be absolutely canon.

Also, about the Space Pirate thing, there's no chance. Space Pirate has no significant support, and if you need to take generic enemies, it's proof positive that you're overrepping. Even if we ended up with Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario, don't you think that it would be stretching it if we bring in Goomba and Koopa Troopa? Besides, would you rather buy a Smash advertised to have "the newcomers Bowser Jr., King K. Rool and Black Shadow" or "the newcomers Goomba, Dodongo and Space Pirate?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Even More SSB4 Item Ideas

Pokeball Pokemon Idea:

Honchkrow: Plays like Beedrill from the original SSB, but gathers a group of Murkrow.

Item Idea:

Spring Mushroom: Slides like other two mushrooms, but held like items such as capsule and Pokeball, press L and R buttons at once to transform fighter into Spring form, and they bounce up as high as Wario's Wario Waft, making it a good recovery option.

 

[Knyaguy]

Pokeball Pokemon Idea:

Honchkrow: Plays like Beedrill from the original SSB, but gathers a group of Murkrow.

For those of you who don't know what a Honchkrow is here is a picture

I think this would be a great idea. I really missed Beedrill from the old SSB. The only problem I have is why does the Honchkrow summon Murkrow? Why not keep it Honchkrow summons Honchkrow like they did with Beedrill in SSB64?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

For those of you who don't know what a Honchkrow is here is a picture

I think this would be a great idea. I really missed Beedrill from the old SSB. The only problem I have is why does the Honchkrow summon Murkrow? Why not keep it Honchkrow summons Honchkrow like they did with Beedrill in SSB64?

Mario the Jumpman:

Because the Pokedex in Pokemon Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum says that wild Honchkrow make their Murkrow lackies do the dirty work while they grooms themself in their nests. Thats just what they just do. When you were looking for a picture, why didn't you as well look for information about Honchkrow on Wikipedia or Bulbapedia?

 

[Commander_Beef]

You know what would be cool? If they put every playable character from Nintendo and Sega.

That would be amazing.

Yeah! Including paper mario .
He'd be like a ghetto G&W.

 

[Circa]

I'm saying that you're a hater of him in Smash terms. No need for the OBVIOUSLY. Since when have characters needed to fit into the game? Once you think about it, NOTHING fits in Smash. Mario fights by jumping on the heads of minions. Does that make him out of place when he fights Link with punches and kicks? No. There have always been creative liberties in how characters function in Smash, as they all originate from different series. It's just ridiculous to claim that canonicity is not big issue, as we have an obscure NES promotional item with no abilities other than shooting disks and rotating his arms, and he can fight d*mn fine in Smash and be very high on the tier list.

Actually, you are right. It was a pretty bad example. My point is that, in Smash, characters just don't act like they're supposed to.

I'm mixing these two together because I sort of cover them at the same time.

I'm pretty sure that they take the creative liberties while sticking to the essence of the character itself, along with the physics of Smash. So basically, they mix the world that they come from and the world of Smash together to create these characters as they are seen in the Smash series. They put ROB in the game with things that look like what he would do if he was meant to fight. Same with Ness/Lucas and jumping. They were given an other-worldly-like jump, which fits them as characters very well, and gives them the viability in Smash that they needed. The same can be said for basically every single character that has been in thus far.

No, it was your little thing about looks. You were the one who began to complain that Ridley IZ 2 BIG when the issue has been addressed millions of times before and that he doesn't fit because he wouldn't look good at a Smash size. Also, while a large character can be difficult to balance, it's possible to balance any pro with an equivalent con. That's how Smash works.


This seems like an appropriate time to post this:
http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs37/f/2008/249/3/5/Brawl_Height_Chart_by_drag0nscythe.jpg
(by drag0nscythe)
Yeah, he's quite large, but not in a ridiculous way at all.

Thanks for the picture. I'm actually horrible at drawing, so I wouldn't have been able to supply one.

But...your picture actually points out my main issues with including Ridley into the game. I mean, sure he looks alright, but look at his figure. Look at the way he stands. Where is his hurtbox? From what I can tell, the smaller members of the cast would actually have to either use an aerial or spam utilt/usmash to even hit him from the front. And with that, you may be thinking "Okay...so what's the issue?", which I can honestly respond back to with saying the whole law where; the bigger the character, the harder they are supposed to be to hit offstage, but the easier they are supposed to be to hit in general, whereas the opposite is supposed to be said about small characters. He would break this rule, however, because the small characters would have a hard time hitting them while grounded whereas he would have quite an easy time hitting them at any position. And how are they supposed to grapple him? They would actually have to be to his claws to make a logical grapple on his rather horizontal standing pose (which is the main issue with him, tbh). Oh, and yes. His size is actually quite an issue when it comes to a character like him. You see, in order for Ridley to still be Ridley in essence, he would have to be very powerful and extremely heavy. Actually, with him being as big as you're expecting, he would have to clearly fit for heaviest in the game, because that's only logical (and yes, logic and physics do somewhat fit in the world of Smash), and he would probably qualify for most powerful; second most at worst. Plus, because he's aerial in all the Metroid games, he has to have a pretty **** good recovery and probably multiple jumps as well, because that's only logical. Mix all those things together, and you basically have the most naturally broken character to ever be entered into Smash. Hell, Meta Knight doesn't even have anything on him.

What? How does a generic enemy with no popularity nor any significance to match other characters have any priority as a new Metroid rep? You could have at least mentioned Dark Samus, though she pales in comparison to Ridley.

Jimneymebob covered why I didn't mention Dark Samus, and note how I was talking about Metroid from near its start; not Prime and on.

Also, about the Space Pirate thing, there's no chance. Space Pirate has no significant support, and if you need to take generic enemies, it's proof positive that you're overrepping. Even if we ended up with Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario, don't you think that it would be stretching it if we bring in Goomba and Koopa Troopa? Besides, would you rather buy a Smash advertised to have "the newcomers Bowser Jr., King K. Rool and Black Shadow" or "the newcomers Goomba, Dodongo and Space Pirate?

Actually, I would love to play a game that included those, thank you very much. And who's to say that they wouldn't include big bosses along with common enemies? In all honesty, I'd love to see them use some of the generic characters to rep some games. Not goomba, mind you, but things that could have a reasonable moveset could get in. And also, I don't really understand how you can say that the Space Pirate doesn't have a chance of making it in because of a lack of fan support when they included the likes of G&W and ROB, who most people probably didn't even know the existence of when they were introduced. The point of repping a game isn't for the backing of those who already know of these characters' existences, but more for the introduction of these characters and games to the people who didn't know they existed. Just something to think about.

God, today's been a ****ty day. I hope what I said makes sense. D:

 

[drag0nscythe]

There is no logical reason to exclude Ridley.


Anti-Ridley arguments Debunked.

Argument 1:
“Ridley is to large and would not fit in the game” also known as “Ridley is to big”

Despite what is claimed in this argument, Ridley is not to big. Common examples are Ridley from the original metroid games as well as the official canon comic. Even if we limit him to his 3D appearances, many other characters have had their sizes changed within the Smash Series. Olimar, Pikachu, Kirby, Dedede, Meta-knight have all been enlarged to fit into the game. Bowser, who generally is known for his size in the main mario line, was chosen to have one of his smaller forms from the spin-off games. Smash is not afraid to mess with peoples sizes.

Ridley from Metroid.
http://www.emulationgalaxy.co.yu/images/ed...d/metroid_1.gif

Comic images Posted by Nyc48
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/n.../ridleysize.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/n...ridleysize2.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/nyc48/zzsmkup.jpg
http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/mzm/m...idManga2-07.jpg

Argument 2:
“Relative size is what matters. Samus is in and because of this, Ridley's size is already established as being huge.”

This argument is trying to say that all characters relative sizes are kept intact in the smash series. An example of this is the Mario characters. Bowser is the largest, followed by Peach, Luigi and Mario being the shortest. This is always kept constant. Since Samus is already six feet and Ridley is huge compared to her, he cannot be shrunk down. This is the argument that is usually proposed. Not only is this argument disprove by the fact that they are fake characters, it can also be disproved with Pikachu and Mewtwo from Melee. Pikachu's Canon height is 1'04'' while Mewtwo's Canon height is 6'07''. If you look at the 3D games, you can see that this is their heights. Now look at melee. This is clearly not the case. Mewtwo is smaller and Pikachu is definitely taller. Thus the Relative size argument is disproven.

Combat vid comparing Mewtwo and Pikachu's height in Melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4hUNySZV8

Argument 3:
“Ridley would look stupid small.”

This, no matter how anyone looks at it, is an opinion at its core. Many people believe he looks fine smaller, while some believe he looks silly. This is up to personal preference and is not a good enough reason to exclude him from being playable in future games.

Argument 4:
“His proportions are to irregular and would not work shrunken down.”

This argument mainly consists of using Ridley's skinniness and length as means of excluding him from being playable. Most people point to his neck and Many fans have also tried to make him smaller in an effort to have a visual reference for people to see that he would work and that his proportions are not skewed. Examples of this are listed below.

LinkIII_IsBack posted the following.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4043/ri...ndsamus1cg4.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8972/ri...ndsamus2xt1.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4956/ri...ndsamus3fe1.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8645/playaberidleyls8.png
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7395/pl...eridley2qb1.png
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/263/pla...eridley3xv8.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6995/pl...eridley4ps2.jpg

Argument 5:
“Smaller ridley in metroid does not count because of system limitations.”

This argument also includes the “Metroid was overridden by Zero mission” Argument. What this argument is trying to do is say that because Metroid was released on the nintendo, Ridley was only small because of system limitations. Because of the release of Zero mission, this fact is drilled even more. The thing to remember is that the system limitations also apply to other games, mainly pokemon. One cannot count the Handheld pokemon games and act like those sizes matter and then discredit the original Metroid. Both have smaller sprites and characters from their original heights because of system limitations. It is best to just use Canon sizes, or at least the 3D canon game models. Pokemon and Metroid have been put into 3D. As it can be seen, the pokemon models have incorrect sizes in melee. Because of this, it is shown that Smash messes with the sizes and ridley cannot be excluded because some consider his smaller form negligent because of system limitations.

Argument 6:
“They have to use the newest version of characters. (IE Legend of Zelda example.) Because of this, Meta-ridley would be the one to make it playable, and because of his wingspan and out of proportion limbs, be would not be able to be resized."

There are two problems with this claim. One is that Ridley's limbs and wings are very skinny. While Meta-Ridley does have huge wings, it is safe to note that Mewtwo's Dimensions were also skewed in Melee. He appears fatter than he should be. The other point is using the most current character model. This is false by looking at Samus. Samus is based on her Super Metroid look, not the prime series. Other examples is updating the looks for Retro characters, Sheiks new design that was submitted, and even toon link (who is not cell shaded) Since this is true, they can use normal Ridley if they wanted to.

Here is a list of characters, with pictures that show they did not use the newest models from the games.
---
Wolf from Command
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/..._1186378498.jpg

Wolf from Assault
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4417/wolfev8.jpg

Wolf from brawl
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/...12/hidden12.jpg

Looks like they used more influence from the Assault version than the command version.
---

Last SF game was command.
Falco looked like this
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/imag...alcoCommand.jpg

In brawl, he looks like this
http://www.wikicheats.com/images/0/09/Smas...Brawl_Falco.jpg
-------------------
MGS's last game (keeping that the designs were finalized before 2006) was Metal Gear Acid 2
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/t...x-SnakeMGA2.PNG

If you want to argue Nintendo Only
http://www.gameguru.in/images/metal-gear-s...in-snakes-1.jpg

His look in brawl
http://ssbb.teamhijack.com/images/characte...nakeprofile.jpg
-------------------

Here are three examples of where Sakurai did not use the newest models and took creative liberties with the characters designs. If it can happen with them, it can happen with ridley.

Argument 7:
“He is an unimportant character and does not deserve a place in smash”

This argument mainly shows peoples little knowledge about the Metroid Series. It is stated in the official Canon Manga that Ridley Killed Samus' Parents when she was a child. He practically started the Metroid Series. It has also been said that He is the leader of the space pirates. The last thing to note is that he is the most reoccurring boss in the series. I recommend reading this wiki page on the subject. Don't like Wiki? Your loss.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Argument 8:
“Diamond/Peral have many official canon sizes for Barboach. This means Pikachu can grow from 1ft 4in. To over 3ft. Thus showing that using pokemon to discredit relative size is invalid.”

This argument is attacking one of the pro-ridley groups points than Ridley himself. Try and disprove one of your claims, and then he is an invalid character again. The reason why this does not work is because one of the main points is that mewtwo is also shrunk down in size. There is only one mewtwo canonically and his height is supposed to be constant. Since he was shrunk down in size, the argument still has a leg to stand on. One could try and argue biology and on how reproduction and size is generated in real animals, but Pokemon is a game and thus fake. The way they mate, the fact that they only take physical traits from only one parent as well as other things makes it silly to argue logical biology. It appears to be silly to some that to justify the absence of ridley having a chance, an anti-ridley person has to say that the Pikachu in SSE is a special Pikachu that was bread so his size was good enough to fight in brawl. Feels silly. Best to say that the programmers need a larger pikachu to use and just grew his size. People need to remember that this is a game.

Argument 9:
“Ridley's Size stays constant.”

Here is his sizes in Canon order.

Comic images Posted by Nyc48
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/n.../ridleysize.jpg

Ridley from Metroid.
http://www.emulationgalaxy.co.yu/images/ed...d/metroid_1.gif

Ridley from Zero Mission
http://metroid.com/zeromission/launch/_img...ies_char6_2.jpg

Ridley from Melee
http://ssbm.detstar.com/screengallery/samus_ridley.jpg

Ridley from Metroid Prime
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m...alwebsitsh7.jpg

Ridley from Metroid Prime 2 (He was supposed to appear)
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/...ssed_Ridley.jpg

Ridley from Metroid Prime 3
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/...30_embed050.jpg

Ridley from Super Metroid
http://www.nintendomaniacs.com/images/ul3/...roid/ridley.png

Ridley from Fusion
http://www.ingamedex.com/images/thumb/2/2e...usionRidley.png
http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/5/5...zen_Ridley1.png

To say the least, his size changes a lot.

Argument 10:
"Ridley is a boss in brawl. Making him playable means other known large bosses like Andross should also be playable (Otherwise known as the Andross defense.)"

We have already proven, in this article, that ridley is not oversized and that he can be shrunk down. That is a key factor you have to get around. Now, first we will act on the notion of bosses. In N64, it was master hand. In melee it was Master hand, crazy hand, and a LARGER bowser (Yes, they made him bigger for his boss fight in melee.) So what have we had before brawl, two hands and a larger bowser.

Brawl is really the first game in the series to incorporate bosses like it did. We really have no clue how they will be treated from here. So stop trying to justify his exclusion because he is a boss. I could use the same argument with AT's. Issac and Lil mac are AT's, not playable material.

As for justifying Andross or Ho-Oh. We do not need to. But if you honestly want them playable, then I could see them working. Just find a large enough fanbase to support for cause for them being playable, and run with it.

Argument 11:
"He flies indefinitely and is bulky. Plus he isn't popular to the general public. Thus he will be broken"

Right, where to begin. Well first, he is not what many would consider bulky. If you visually remove his wings, you can see (look at any of the posted screen shots and think away his wings) that he is not bulky. His wings just make him look bulky. Bulky is also not much of a problem. Charizard and Bowser are both considered bulky.

With flying indefinitely, Charizard is supposed to be a flying creature, but he falls like a rock in Brawl. He has wings, and can fly from town to town in the pokemon games. (Even the 3D games show him being able to stay off the ground more than three flaps.) This point is not valid for this reason. If we have to take it a bit farther, Kirby is supposed to be able to fly forever (even though some games limit it), but he still has a limit on him in brawl.

As for being popular with the general public, the same thing was said about meta-knight (For all those who say I use Pokemon and Zelda to much.) Many and I mean many, reviews complained about him because he was an unknown bad guy from Kirby. (Which is how some put it.) Meta-knight was only known by the small kirby crowd, not by the Nintendo masses. Same can be said for Ridley.

Argument 12:
"Programming Ridley would cost more than programming any other character"

The reason why this argument has been brought up is because many believe that coming up with Ridley's Moveset, design for the game, Hit boxes, FS and even animations will be harder than any other character and will cost the company more money to make him playable. This is bull because this has to happen with every character in smash.

Take ROB for example, who has no established moves. They had to make everything, his moveset, movements and even make his look work with the other characters from scratch. Ridley has established moves, and since his body is not as awkward as people want many to believe, he actually might be easier to make playable.

I do know that Sakurai mentioned him and how it would be challenging. I wish I knew all the details of the situation; Did Sakurai spend alot of time on him? Did Sakurai decided on ZSS and then say "That is all the new Metroid characters we need." Did he even try to formulate a plan with Ridley? I would like to know that. His comment could mean that he spent alot of time and found no way to do it, or he said it as an off-comment to change the subject quickly.

Argument 13:
"Samus can carry metroid on her own. Ridley is unneeded. OR Metroid is about being alone, so Ridley is un-needed."

For one, both of these sound really silly and sound almost like a last resort. They just do. No to Ridley because of Metroid's Atmosphere. Just sounds silly to me. The reason why this is false is because of Link. The legend of Zelda series has always been about Link, the one man army, defeating the evil of Ganondorf (who only ever shows up as the Final boss.) by himself. Zelda is usually a minor character, and almost feels like she is there for name sake.(She is always captured, or sleeping, etc.) Why are those two playable then when The legend of Zelda is mainly about Link being alone (granted the newer games have given him partners to help push along the story, but none of them are playable.)

Note 1:
One thing many need to remember is that the smash bros series in not canon to the original series. Proof of this is the many moveset errors (Ganondorf, Ness) and Final smash liberties (Luigi's Negative zone, Game and Watch Octopus). So keeping strict to canon is not really happening. Some say that because this is a fighting game, and for most, this series is their first fighting appearance, they have no canon movesets. This is silly because the characters movesets were pulled from their respective games. Here is a bunch of links to prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfk3-I4UJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7DqAC7Ne0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMXw8MmO9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIyjilTlSv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be1W2n0vW1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bva1g00xdcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_to3eKGJISg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfGTx-q5Os
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQwIY8AISZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNXp44bmOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJe6IoiD9Ys

Note 2:
Sakurai did shrink Ridley in the SSE boss fight. Look at the Meta-ridley fight in SSE and than compare it to the normal meta-ridley fight from Metroid prime. They have different sizes.

Meta-ridley from MP.
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m...alwebsitsh7.jpg

Meta-Ridley from Brawl
http://www.wikicheats.com/images/0/0d/Smas...ta_Ridley_2.jpg

Enjoy. If you find a way to strengthen or destroy any one of these (or you would like to add to the list). Please feel free to do so.

Note 3:
Many people usually try to compare Ridley to the other characters, height, size, etc. So here is a Height chart with a Ridley on it.
http://drag0nscythe.deviantart.com/art/Bra...-Chart-97138072
You might have to click the download button to see a better version of it.

 

[SmashChu]

But...your picture actually points out my main issues with including Ridley into the game. I mean, sure he looks alright, but look at his figure. Look at the way he stands. Where is his hurtbox? From what I can tell, the smaller members of the cast would actually have to either use an aerial or spam utilt/usmash to even hit him from the front. And with that, you may be thinking "Okay...so what's the issue?", which I can honestly respond back to with saying the whole law where; the bigger the character, the harder they are supposed to be to hit offstage, but the easier they are supposed to be to hit in general, whereas the opposite is supposed to be said about small characters. He would break this rule, however, because the small characters would have a hard time hitting them while grounded whereas he would have quite an easy time hitting them at any position. And how are they supposed to grapple him? They would actually have to be to his claws to make a logical grapple on his rather horizontal standing pose (which is the main issue with him, tbh). Oh, and yes. His size is actually quite an issue when it comes to a character like him. You see, in order for Ridley to still be Ridley in essence, he would have to be very powerful and extremely heavy. Actually, with him being as big as you're expecting, he would have to clearly fit for heaviest in the game, because that's only logical (and yes, logic and physics do somewhat fit in the world of Smash), and he would probably qualify for most powerful; second most at worst. Plus, because he's aerial in all the Metroid games, he has to have a pretty **** good recovery and probably multiple jumps as well, because that's only logical. Mix all those things together, and you basically have the most naturally broken character to ever be entered into Smash. Hell, Meta Knight doesn't even have anything on him.

The assumption on size made some sense since the character could not physically work. However, if his size is appropriate, then how would the hit box not be?

Also, the bold is kind of a weak argument because they can adjust anything in development. No, video games are not based on logic. How do mushrooms make you big? How does magic exist (and how do you make the explanation make any sense)? How does anything work. How can you jump twice. Videogames are fantasy.

The problem with the "too big" thing is it never had any really backing, and was an excuse not to include him (given, Sakurai decides who's in or out. It is an excuse from our position). None of the characters are 100% true to their game due to the fact you have to cram them all into a new one. So some things are naturally changed.

Also, the bold makes the big assumption that everything is constant. It's not, and shouldn't be. If entertainment is about surprise, then wouldn't it be counter productive to know what a character will appear like? How's to say Ridley couldn't be lighter then DK or Bowser since he has a light looking frame. But he could be powerful to to make up for it, and he can fly. "But that's not balance," they cry. How can you argue balance when the character isn't being done yet? To say it wont be balanced is naive since the developers have full control over the game. They would just have to find the best method for doing so.

The problem with Ridley arguments is they focus on why the character can not work, not why he wont be added. every character can work, and Sakurai has done a lot of crazy things throughout the series. I don't think Ridley is outside their abilities.

 

[sundayseclipse]

you take Ridley seriously dont you drago 0.0. I support it.

new idea. you change items effect and damage status(of cource wont be able too in wifi match

 

[drag0nscythe]

Thanks for the picture. I'm actually horrible at drawing, so I wouldn't have been able to supply one.

Thanks.

But...your picture actually points out my main issues with including Ridley into the game. I mean, sure he looks alright, but look at his figure. Look at the way he stands. Where is his hurtbox? From what I can tell, the smaller members of the cast would actually have to either use an aerial or spam utilt/usmash to even hit him from the front.

In all honesty, that image I used was the only one I could get of him standing. I mainly picture Ridley being close to the ground for his idle stance. I picture him crouched over in a hunch, (like Wolf in SSBB), making it more of a ball like shape. Every hit would affect him in that manner. Maybe have one of his front hands on the ground holding himself up.

And with that, you may be thinking "Okay...so what's the issue?", which I can honestly respond back to with saying the whole law where; the bigger the character, the harder they are supposed to be to hit offstage, but the easier they are supposed to be to hit in general, whereas the opposite is supposed to be said about small characters. He would break this rule, however, because the small characters would have a hard time hitting them while grounded whereas he would have quite an easy time hitting them at any position.

All I can really say is balance. I see Ridley as being a strong hitter, with medium speed and power. While he is large, he should have medium character flying physics.

And how are they supposed to grapple him? They would actually have to be to his claws to make a logical grapple on his rather horizontal standing pose (which is the main issue with him, tbh).

Break the rule of serious and make the characters grab Ridley's head. Once they grab his head, he cannot do anything.

Oh, and yes. His size is actually quite an issue when it comes to a character like him. You see, in order for Ridley to still be Ridley in essence, he would have to be very powerful and extremely heavy.

Wasn't Ganondorf tweaked in the presence of power? I felt he was weaker and off in brawl. The point of smash is not to emulate the character 100%, it is to compromise to an extent and make the character as close as possible, while interpreting the character in a fighting game setting.

Actually, with him being as big as you're expecting, he would have to clearly fit for heaviest in the game, because that's only logical (and yes, logic and physics do somewhat fit in the world of Smash),

He is rather skinny for a large character. I would say he can actually get away with being lighter than Bowser, definitely in terms of girth.

and he would probably qualify for most powerful; second most at worst.

He should have medium strength and damage capabilities, but have decent ability to knock people back. That way he is actually weak, but looks strong.

Plus, because he's aerial in all the Metroid games,

He does fight on ground in Metroid Prime 3. Tha is a good source to developing his moveset.

he has to have a pretty **** good recovery and probably multiple jumps as well, because that's only logical.

As many as Charizard would be fine.

Mix all those things together, and you basically have the most naturally broken character to ever be entered into Smash. Hell, Meta Knight doesn't even have anything on him.

Balance him out. Make him large and medium weight. Make him give small damage, but large knockback abilities. Make him fly well when hit with powerful attacks, but rarely stun on small attacks. Give him good reach (he is large) but make it so that the closer the opponent is, the more damage.

His size is not a strength, it is a weakness. If we give him average speed (Samus is faster then him in ways.) He could be comboed to hell. He is a larger target for throwing things at and he will be affected the most by stage hazards.

It would balance out.

you take Ridley seriously dont you drago 0.0. I support it.

new idea. you change items effect and damage status(of cource wont be able too in wifi match

Very much so. I made that image that was posted (the size chart.) I also made up a moveset, how everything looks and a few other misc things for him in the make your move 5 topic.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Can we please talk about something not involving Ridley, just for today? Then you all can argue about Ridley nonstop tomorrow.

 

[Starphoenix]

As I said before, after seeing him as a boss in Brawl, I do not think he will be playable. If he is not in a character in a possible Smash 4 he never will be, those are just the facts. Sakurai has said himself he does not know if he will work, and I doubt many other game designers would either. Yes there is a point to creativity, but that only goes so far, even Ivysaur had vines to compensate for arms.

Anyways why don't we move off of Ridley, he has been debated to death and to be honest I am so sick and tired of hearing about him. Lets discuss something new like...

Steve for Brawl! *cookie to who guesses the first*

 

[Wizzerd]

drag0nscythe, you win the awesome award of the day. Great argument, really, I was trying to find that argument (since you'd posted it before) to link to in the post, but I couldn't find it. Yeah, you pretty much covered everything. How about you add that for the system limitations argument that Ridley's size in the original Metroid is what matters, not how his size was intended to be, because what Ridley's size in the end is what people identify as Metroid Ridley? (I'm not being too clear, but I hope you understand what I'm saying.)

 

[drag0nscythe]

Can we please talk about something not involving Ridley, just for today? Then you all can argue about Ridley nonstop tomorrow.

Okay.

I want Wolf Link with Midna to be part of Links Final smash. Call it Twilight slash (or something of the such). It is the exact same move as in brawl, but instead of the triforce, twilight Dark energy is used. Link will then transform into wolf link after the smash.

Also push up down up really fast to have midna appear and transform link into wolf link.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Topic not involving you know who

What do you guys think of Micaiah and Sothe as a tag-team similar to PT in Smash 4?

I got stats for both:

Micaiah: lightweight, medium speed, powerful attacks (especially the Specials), and slow falling speed

Sothe: really fast, middle weight, weak attacks (especially the Specials), and fast falling speed

Anybody want to think of a Final Smash for this duo?

 

[DekuBoy]

What would you guys think of this:

Basically it's My Music but you can choose what stage hazards you want. I think it would be great for the competitive scene and could also fix problems some 'casual' players might have with certain stages. What do you fellas think?

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Epic post Dragonscythe.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What would you guys think of this:

Basically it's My Music but you can choose what stage hazards you want. I think it would be great for the competitive scene and could also fix problems some 'casual' players might have with certain stages. What do you fellas think?

Mario the Jumpman:

It was soo obvious.

 

[drag0nscythe]

drag0nscythe, you win the awesome award of the day. Great argument, really, I was trying to find that argument (since you'd posted it before) to link to in the post, but I couldn't find it. Yeah, you pretty much covered everything. How about you add that for the system limitations argument that Ridley's size in the original Metroid is what matters, not how his size was intended to be, because what Ridley's size in the end is what people identify as Metroid Ridley? (I'm not being too clear, but I hope you understand what I'm saying.)

I will think about that. I am thinking of using Metroid other M (the new wii game) as evidence also. I cannot remember his size at the moment though.

I think I see what you are trying to say. You are saying people perceive him based on look and style more than on his overall size. am I close?

What do you guys think of Micaiah and Sothe as a tag-team similar to PT in Smash 4?

I got stats for both:

Micaiah: lightweight, medium speed, powerful attacks (especially the Specials), and slow falling speed

Sothe: really fast, middle weight, weak attacks (especially the Specials), and fast falling speed

Anybody want to think of a Final Smash for this duo?

While more is better, I cannot see more than 3 FE lords in the next game. To top that off, I think it will be the next FE game main (even if he is a sword user). I would like to see Micaiah playable. A magic moveset would be quite nice (based on the FE universe.)

Epic post Dragonscythe.

Thanks.

 

[Wizzerd]

Okay.

I want Wolf Link with Midna to be part of Links Final smash. Call it Twilight slash (or something of the such). It is the exact same move as in brawl, but instead of the triforce, twilight Dark energy is used. Link will then transform into wolf link after the smash.

Also push up down up really fast to have midna appear and transform link into wolf link.

To quote Robotnik: NO!

By the time SSB4 comes out, we will have a new Zelda game, and people will forget Wolf Link and support some other character from the new game. Besides, it's ridiculous to have a playable character that represents only one game... and don't call Ice Climbers, they got in as retro/WTF characters, who don't follow the typical rules anyway. In fact, I think people shouldn't use retro characters in arguments at all, since they pave the way for supporting ridiculous one-game characters like Geno and Lyn.

What do you guys think of Micaiah and Sothe as a tag-team similar to PT in Smash 4?

I got stats for both:

Micaiah: lightweight, medium speed, powerful attacks (especially the Specials), and slow falling speed

Sothe: really fast, middle weight, weak attacks (especially the Specials), and fast falling speed

Anybody want to think of a Final Smash for this duo?

I don't see it happening. FE needs only three reps, and the most likely addition is a new lord. Even beyond that, we have Roy, who is more likely than other characters because he's been in Smash before. Neither are very significant either.

What would you guys think of this:

Basically it's My Music but you can choose what stage hazards you want. I think it would be great for the competitive scene and could also fix problems some 'casual' players might have with certain stages. What do you fellas think?

That is an awesome idea. It might be difficult to implement by a programming standpoint, but it could make broken stages balanced, and customize things... really cool idea, I think.

 

[kirbywizard]

What are some series that haven't been represented by a character you really want to be represented by a character or feel they have branched off into there own series.

I find that these two series have become their series not being part of the regular Mario Franchise.

Mario and Luigi: With this series I find it hard to think of solid choice only being Fawful seeing as he has had a major roll in 2 out of 3 games and a cameo appearance in partners in time.
and
Paper Mario: I would say Paper Mario seeing as how different he is compared to Mario, if you say he is the same then you havent play a Paper mario Game

Animal Crossing: the main character I could see filling this up would be the generic character, Nook, or K.K.

 

[drag0nscythe]

To quote Robotnik: NO!

By the time SSB4 comes out, we will have a new Zelda game, and people will forget Wolf Link and support some other character from the new game. Besides, it's ridiculous to have a playable character that represents only one game... and don't call Ice Climbers, they got in as retro/WTF characters, who don't follow the typical rules anyway. In fact, I think people shouldn't use retro characters in arguments at all, since they pave the way for supporting ridiculous one-game characters like Geno and Lyn.

I think Sheik represents only one game.
She was only in Ocarina of time.

What are some series that haven't been represented by a character you really want to be represented by a character or feel they have branched off into there own series.

I find that these two series have become their series not being part of the regular Mario Franchise.

Mario and Luigi: With this series I find it hard to think of solid choice only being Fawful seeing as he has had a major roll in 2 out of 3 games and a cameo appearance in partners in time.
and
Paper Mario: I would say Paper Mario seeing as how different he is compared to Mario, if you say he is the same then you havent play a Paper mario Game

The problem with that is that no matter how you twist it, Paper mario, Mario RPG, Cell shaded mario. It will always be considered Mario.

Animal Crossing: the main character I could see filling this up would be the generic character, Nook, or K.K.

I think he would be interesting, but I support other characters, like Stafy, Lil mac and Isaac. If one of them was cut from my list, Animal crosser would prob be next.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

This post will most likely aggitate atleast one person who reads this, but these are my true wishes (for the moment) of how I want SSB4 to be. I'm not saying all my wishes will come true but yeah...

If you don't like it I got to fingers up and both of them are in the middle.

*Inhales*

First, I don't see what's so bad about clone characters. If you play Street Fighter, I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Ken becuase he fights similar to Ryu. Or in case of Dark Stalkers, axing Lilth becuase she fights like Morgan. Or in the case of Tekken, dropping Hworang, or however you spell it, because he fights sorta like Beak. That being said, I want the option of playing a floaty Mario (Luigi), a lighter, faster, and tier wise better Link (Toon Link), and considering those examples Folco and Wolf really aren't that cloned of Fox, it at all.

Run on sentence aside, Ganondorf being a clone of C. Falcon really doesn't make sense, honestly. Least Toon link is just an alternate deminsion (SP) of Link so we can assume their styles are alike. Luigi is Mario's little bro so it reasonable they share similarities. Why would Ganon fight like a race car driver/ bounty hunter is a question I always wanted to ask Sakurai. Considering his originating franchise, I would like to see Ganon use a weapon. The twin swords from Wind Waker would be.... wait for it.... AWESOME! I would say add Toon Ganon but that wouldn't really solve the problem, though again, it would be AWESOME! Or give him a spear like Shadow Ganon from the forest temple in Ocorina of Time. I really wouldn't want to see him with a sword since there are many sword weilders and it really wouldn't be original. I'd like to see characters with different weapons. I don't care what anyone says, playing as Wolf Link with Midna on your back bringing in the support would be great!

Some might think my character wishes might be a little Legend of Zelda focused, but that's becuase I'm a big LOZ fan, so again... Two fingers up, both in the middle...

Toon Zelda/Tetra, Maiko (I really wanna play a Zora in smash), Young Link (With his mask so he can transform into a Zora, a Goron, and a Deku, cuz I wanna play as the later to in a fighting game also) Din, Nayru, Fiora (SP) and a Geruda (Though I don't know who would be popular enough, but A. Need more females in smash cuz it's seriously is a suasage fest, and B. Twin swords rule)

Paper Mario... Cuz the prospect of using his partners for attacks would give him a different moveset then Mario and Kooper is the man! He deserves to be in Smash, nuff said. Bowser Jr. (Because he's bad-*** and everyone knows it. Give him a bat and the hankercheif and let him rise to top tier. Either that or give us a fast and small alt to Bowser, with a modded move set to he isn't a complete clone.) Daisy, in her Mario Strikers uniform. Not sure if I want Doc back but I know my cousin wants him back something fierce.

I really don't care who, but F-Zero truly does need atleast ONE new rep. I like katana's so I'm rooting for Goro and putting Blood Falcon, or Black Shadow in would invite Nintendo to clone C. Falcon.

Masked Man, nuf said.

Bring Mewtwo back but keep Lucario. Not sure about Pichu. Pika is already fast and small, so do you really need something small and attacks with recoil? I'm for the idea of Pluse and Minum as a team fighter and I to this day want Blaziken in.

Crystal from Starfox, and give her that staff from Adventures and where cool. I vaguely remember her having powers of some sort so if she did, add that too.

I honestly think Fire Emblem is well repped, but I would like to see more females so Lyn or Micaiah would be nice.

I think it's about time Lip. We have been using her stick for three games now. (Correct me if I'm wrong. SSB64 was like what, over five years ago?)

Metriod needs another rep just as bad as F-Zero. Maybe Tecmo's Other M will bring someone promising to the table but for now my vote goes for Weavel, Trace, or Sylux becuase I always thought they were the coolest looking ones. Sylux would most likely win since he seems to be the most popular.

Dixie, ftw. Little Mac, cuz Smash doesn't have a boxer type character, Akari Hayami, so hopefully 1080 gets more popular, Ryota Hayami so he can rep Wave Race, and Ray MK-III. I used to want Mach Rider. Kinda still do. And I wish I could remember his name but there was this samurai kid from a old game on the original Famicon, or it might have been the Super Famicon. I played it over a friends house a couple times. Don't know what they were saying but it was fun so the star should be in there too. I guess Touch Generation games would need a rep so I guess the Blob guy from Big Brain academy. Animal Crossing is popular and might deserve a rep like K.K. A dog beating *** with a guitar = greatness.

I don't know who else would honestly rep Pikmin to the fullest, other than Olimar. >.>

And last but not least,Isaac, of Golden Sun, should be made playable. If I get one wish, that would be it. Would like another rep since Golden Sun needs some catching up. Maybe Felix, or Alex so they have a bad guy reppin too.

As for non character related stuff. Get rid of random tripping! That's not a request, it's a demand! I have lost plenty of close matches becuase luck, or fate, or whatever evil demon gods of tripping intervended and thrumpted a strategic victory I had all planed out just becuase I took a step into the pwnage-omega that which is a trip defeate. (Like tripping into Ike's front Smash I know many that suffered said fate.)

I thought with the whole Mii thing and seeing your Mii in games like Mario kart and Sonic and Mario that they would have a created a fighter option where you can use your Mii to make a character. I'm still up for that idea, if not, atleast a way to customize existing characters (like Tekken does) or create your own fighters using existing movesets (like Soul Calibur).

Speed it up, and weigh it down. Compared to Melee, Brawl is slow and light. I was way more into Melee then Brawl so if 4 is more like Melee, then I'll be way more into 4 then Brawl, as would the rest of the hardcore/competive world. That's why we have handicaps, to make things more n00b friendly.

Four taunts. We have for D-pad directions yet only three taunts. Why?

Palette swaps are nice but so many characters in Brawl have been seen in different attire. Why not have alternate costumes? Wario shouldn't be the only one.

I like how they expanded on the side scroller idea of story mode. Next they should add alternate routes leading to alternate endings. And maybe online story co-op?

I miss race to the finish. I prefer every character having their own hit the targets.

I know Brawl came out first but Mario Kart soon followed it, yet Brawl legs more then Socom on PS2 when you take it online. But when Playing Kart, I rarely have a hiccup, let alone go through two minutes of slow-mo. Why is that? As popular as Brawl is, or Smash for that matter, I would have thought Sakurai would request dedicated servers for the game. Heck, even NFS lags sometimes but Brawls lag is crazy. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that this is the first time Smash has been online. But next time, we need a ranking system and leader boards and reliable servers. It seems like Mario Kart is more competitive then Smash is becuase the have Nintendo sponsored tournies and ranks and everything. Again, Kart came first but still... Which leads to my next request.

Downloadable content. I understand Wii doesn't have a hard drive. (Why, I don't know) However, we can still download games and channels onto the flash memory. I remember reading up on DSi and not only did Nintendo have plans to allow players to download games, but also download extra content to future games using the DSi Ware service. Whaddup wit that? Far as I know DSi has 16g Flash internal memory so why can't we get DLC for Smash? I would like to see DLC in the next one. And heck, you already made us buy three different DS. If it ment a better Smash Brothers experience then I'd buy an upgraded Wii.

Item wise, I really don't use them often so there isn't much to say except this: Don't you guys think there might be a little too many Legendary Pokemon? I do...

Hook-shot/Grapple beam should hook on walls, not ledges. Other wise, what's the point. I understand that might give Olimar, Ivysaur, and the like an advantage, but wasn't that the point in Melee. People might get jelouse if Toon Link can grapple walls and ZS Samus can only latch onto ledges, but hell, tough cookies. Again, wouldn't care if ALL grapples latched onto walls, but I would like grapples to latch onto walls again. Otherwise, Up-B is more useful then side-B or air-Z.

I used the create a stage maybe twice in my life. That should say something. The stage builder needs an over haul. I know Nintendo doesn't want people fightin to the background of people having sex, but I would still like to upload my own images. If not that, add more backgrounds. Atleast 20-30. Better yet, only allow stages built with original Nintendo content to be uploaded and stages with custom backgrounds have to stay on the creator's Wii. But the stage builder needs an overhaul.

Considering we can put music on Wii through the SD card, we should also be able to battle using our own music. That would be a great feature.

I must be jealous of Mario Kart in Smash's place cuz I want SSB4 to have it's own channel, too!

One of my last complaints is about the trophies. In Melee, the trophies where balance when giving info about future games, classic games, games only in Japan, and popular games. It's not so much in Brawl. They're more focused on just popular games. Not cool.

*Exhales*

Phew, that was long. but that's just about everything I can think of on how I hope SSB4 will turn out. Reality is, less then 1% of what I'm asking will come true, though, but whatever... Basicly, more characters, improve the online mode, and improve the stage builder and I'll be happy. Sakurai did event Smash Bros. so it would be wrong to be like yeah, get rid of him and have someone else create the perfect Smash game when it was Sakurai's vision. However, if anyone would be taske to do just that... Miyamot!

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

While more is better, I cannot see more than 3 FE lords in the next game. To top that off, I think it will be the next FE game main (even if he is a sword user). I would like to see Micaiah playable. A magic moveset would be quite nice (based on the FE universe.)

Mario the Jumpman:

Sothe would likely be the first FE assassin to be playable in SSB4. And we don't need Roy, Ike could whoop him pretty easily.

What would you think of boss characters appearing as Assist Trophy helpers as well in Smash 4?

Does anyone have some ideas for Falco's SSB4 moveset (I already listed Wolf's Brawl moveset to merge with Falco's Brawl one and to be used by Wolf in Smash 4)?

Here's an idea for a pokeball pokemon: Arceus: Its appearance will be twice or even three times as rare as Mew's, Celebi's, etc., and will only appear up to once per match, but once summoned, it would remove the current fighter in the lead from the match and automatically ranks them at last place for that match.

 

[Hackey_Sack]

I think we should have Miis as characters, but have them suck. That way, they'll get in to make the casual public happy, but they won't get in the way of the competitive scene.

Sorry if this has been said. I am NOT reading TWELVE HUNDRED PAGES.

 

[Wizzerd]

I think Sheik represents only one game.
She was only in Ocarina of time.

Another exception. Sheik was a very popular character when Melee came out, certainly more popular than Wolf Link/Midna for Brawl. Even than she wasn't the greatest of characters, and she probably didn't deserve to return to Brawl: although seeing how much that could upset people, especially considering her place on the tier list, she made some sort of sense. Sheik will continue to be in Smash because she's been in two Smash games.

The problem with that is that no matter how you twist it, Paper mario, Mario RPG, Cell shaded mario. It will always be considered Mario.

It's never been officially said that Paper Mario is or is not Mario, but playing his games sort of makes it speak for itself. Paper Mario has enough unique abilities that it's hard to see him as Mario. Besides, he gets enough support to prove that people consider him different from regular Mario.

I think he would be interesting, but I support other characters, like Stafy, Lil mac and Isaac. If one of them was cut from my list, Animal crosser would prob be next.

I'd probably put in Tom Nook instead of Ray, but I have no sales to back that up, and it's sort of an opinion anyway.