[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ducky285]

the best GCN RPG is Baten Kaitos.

I agree. I don't like most RPGs but I liked Baten Kaitos.

 

[gigasteve]

Baiten Kaitos was epic.

 

[piffman2]

Sakurai did say the next smash should be substantially different.

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet but I think the next Smash should take a page out of Marvel vs Capcom and Mortal Kombat vs DC's book and do a Smash Bros. Vs...game

Maybe Smash Bros. vs Dark Horse. I'm ready for some Pikachu vs. Hellboy action

 

[Chief Mendez]

Sakurai did say the next smash should be substantially different.

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet but I think the next Smash should take a page out of Marvel vs Capcom and Mortal Kombat vs DC's book and do a Smash Bros. Vs...game

Maybe Smash Bros. vs Dark Horse. I'm ready for some Pikachu vs. Hellboy action

First of all, if you want to make a credible argument for something...it's probably not a good idea to bring up Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Seriously, what were they thinking?

Anyway, the problem with this idea is that there aren't really that many (or any, really) companies whose stock of franchises (successful, worth-honoring franchises, that is) is as large and iconic as Nintendo's. Sure, I could make a 35-character roster out of nothing but SEGA characters, but I'm a guy who (for the most part) has devoted his entire life to videogames, so I know a bit more than your average Joe.

I brought this up earlier, and your idea goes along with it--if Nintendo were to spring for something like this, they'd be best off getting five or so characters from several different companies (Capcom, Konami, Namco, Tecmo, and SEGA, let's say). In such a scenario, I think they'd have to cut a number of characters from the current roster, but I'd willingly take that loss if it meant a 50-character roster that's half-full of my favorite non-Nintendo videogame characters.

 

[Spire]

First of all, if you want to make a credible argument for something...it's probably not a good idea to bring up Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Seriously, what were they thinking?

Anyway, the problem with this idea is that there aren't really that many (or any, really) companies whose stock of franchises (successful, worth-honoring franchises, that is) is as large and iconic as Nintendo's. Sure, I could make a 35-character roster out of nothing but SEGA characters, but I'm a guy who (for the most part) has devoted his entire life to videogames, so I know a bit more than your average Joe.

I brought this up earlier, and your idea goes along with it--if Nintendo were to spring for something like this, they'd be best off getting five or so characters from several different companies (Capcom, Konami, Namco, Tecmo, and SEGA, let's say). In such a scenario, I think they'd have to cut a number of characters from the current roster, but I'd willingly take that loss if it meant a 50-character roster that's half-full of my favorite non-Nintendo videogame characters.

There are quite a number of non-Nintendo video game characters that would fit in and work perfectly with Smash Bros, but due to a lack of appearances on Nintendo consoles (or a lack of popularity ON Nintendo consoles) and/or what companies (Microsoft for example) have them locked in cages, they will probably never appear in Smash Bros. Just to list who I'm thinking of:

• Banjo-Kazooie
• Klaymen
• Spyro
• Crash
• Ratchet & Clank
• Rocket (Robot on wheels)
• Rayman
• Black Mage (sorry, I'm a softy for this, and this FF character only).

I'd love to see them included, but it won't happen. Like what has been said before, if any other 3rd party characters make it, it's going to be either: Bomberman, Megaman, or Simon Belmont.

 

[Turbo Ether]

New moves and techniques:

Dashing: Hold L and press left or right on the control stick to do a very quick dash forwards or backwards. This would work exactly like Wavedashing, but with a proper animation, making it an official move.

Running Special: Pressing B while running will result in a new special attack being performed.

Grab Special: Grab the enemy and press B to do a new special attack instead of a throw.

Wakeup special: Press B while laying on the ground to wake up with a new special attack.

Ledge Special: While hanging onto a ledge, press B to climb the ledge while using a new special attack.

Smash balls: No longer provide Final Smashes. Instead, they give special properties to your smash attacks for X amount of seconds, like full charge, more hitstun, shorter startup, less lag, etc. Like EX specials in 3rd Strike.

Grabs: Riskier, yet more rewarding. A few frames slower and no super armor, to eliminate chain grabbing and tone down shield grabbing. Grab jabbing and throws do more damage and never lead to chain grabs.

Grab release: No longer gives frame advantage/disadvantage to the grabber or the victim.

Hit stun: Will exist on various moves.

Link and Mario: Top tier

Random Tripping: Gone

Fatalities: Are in the T-rated DC vs MK lol.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

New moves and techniques:

Dashing: Hold L and press left or right on the control stick to do a very quick dash forwards or backwards. This would work exactly like Wavedashing, but with a proper animation, making it an official move.

Running Special: Pressing B while running will result in a new special attack being performed.

Grab Special: Grab the enemy and press B to do a new special attack instead of a throw.

Wakeup special: Press B while laying on the ground to wake up with a new special attack.

Ledge Special: While hanging onto a ledge, press B to climb the ledge while using a new special attack.

Smash balls: No longer provide Final Smashes. Instead, they give special properties to your smash attacks for X amount of seconds, like full charge, more hitstun, shorter startup, less lag, etc. Like EX specials in 3rd Strike.

Grabs: Riskier, yet more rewarding. A few frames slower and no super armor, to eliminate chain grabbing and tone down shield grabbing. Grab jabbing and throws do more damage and never lead to chain grabs.

Grab release: No longer gives frame advantage/disadvantage to the grabber or the victim.

Hit stun: Will exist on various moves.

Link and Mario: Top tier

Random Tripping: Gone

Fatalities: Are in the T-rated DC vs MK lol.

I like the running specials idea but i don't think any of the others will happen

 

[Chief Mendez]

There are quite a number of non-Nintendo video game characters that would fit in and work perfectly with Smash Bros, but due to a lack of appearances on Nintendo consoles (or a lack of popularity ON Nintendo consoles) and/or what companies (Microsoft for example) have them locked in cages, they will probably never appear in Smash Bros. Just to list who I'm thinking of:

• Banjo-Kazooie
• Klaymen
• Spyro
• Crash
• Ratchet & Clank
• Rocket (Robot on wheels)
• Rayman
• Black Mage (sorry, I'm a softy for this, and this FF character only).

I'd love to see them included, but it won't happen. Like what has been said before, if any other 3rd party characters make it, it's going to be either: Bomberman, Megaman, or Simon Belmont.

Yeah, those are the big contenders that seem like obvious choices. And it'll probably pan out like that if SSB4 follows the same character-inclusion pattern the series has tuck to up to now. But the theory here is that to shake up the aging formula, you'd actually reduce the number of Nintendo characters in the roster, while adding many, many more third party characters.

So for the sake of argument, here's the potential rollout:

Characters cut: R.O.B., Wolf, Toon Link, Pokemon Trainer, Zero Suit Samus, Mr. Game & Watch, Diddy Kong, and Yoshi. TOTAL VETERANS: 27 (excluding Snake and Sonic)

Capcom: Megaman, Viewtiful Joe, Ryu, Ken Masters,

Namco: KOS-MOS, Siegfried/Nightmare, The Prince of Cosmos

Konami: Snake, Gray Fox, Simon Belmont, Sparkster, Vic Viper

SEGA: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Beat, Edge, Ulala

Square-Enix: Crono, Geno, Cecil, Terra, Chocobo

TOTAL 3rd-PARTY: 24. Total Characters: 52.

...

...I'd hit that.

Of course, let me reinforce the idea that this is just a rough idea I came up with off the very tippy-top of my head, and that I in no way think this would be the actual roster, or that those specific characters would be the ones to get the axe, or anything of the like. TOTAL SPECULATION HERE, GUYS. FLAMES CAUSE BURNS, AND BURNS HURT LIKE HOLY HECK.

Dashing: Hold L and press left or right on the control stick to do a very quick dash forwards or backwards. This would work exactly like Wavedashing, but with a proper animation, making it an official move.

Running Special: Pressing B while running will result in a new special attack being performed.

Grab Special: Grab the enemy and press B to do a new special attack instead of a throw.

Wakeup special: Press B while laying on the ground to wake up with a new special attack.

Ledge Special: While hanging onto a ledge, press B to climb the ledge while using a new special attack.

Smash balls: No longer provide Final Smashes. Instead, they give special properties to your smash attacks for X amount of seconds, like full charge, more hitstun, shorter startup, less lag, etc. Like EX specials in 3rd Strike.

Grabs: Riskier, yet more rewarding. A few frames slower and no super armor, to eliminate chain grabbing and tone down shield grabbing. Grab jabbing and throws do more damage and never lead to chain grabs.

Grab release: No longer gives frame advantage/disadvantage to the grabber or the victim.

Oops, missed this one. Alright then, from the top--

Dashing's possible, but not like this. That's how we dodge roll, in case you forgot. And we're not going to have the L-trigger dash and the R-trigger shield, because I personally use L exclusively to sheild and roll, as I'm sure others do (and don't).

All of those new specials would just complicate things. If you're hanging on a ledge or on the ground, the only way you can time those moves is all up to your opponent, since you're totally inert. Rising and ledge attacks only serve to keep the opponent at bay as you get back on your feet, and shouldn't be anything more. Besides, I have a feeling if this happened, players would never use the standard rising/ledge attacks, ever.

And the running special is a moot point, since, again, that's how we do side specials.

Smash Balls = this'd just complicate things without real purpose. How do you keep track of those upgrades? How do you decide when you get which kind of boost? What's the point, when you can just grab a Super Mushroom, and have the same effect?

I vaguely agree with you about the grabbing changes...though I do love me some chain grabbing...

And that's it for my comments.

 

[ducky285]

Not a flame and not biased based on my main, but I see no reason to cut Yoshi. He may not be a huge star but he's had his fair share of notoriety and he was in some of Ninty's best games. He's also pretty **** popular and if anyone should be removed before him it's someone like Ike or Lucas, neither of which provide the best representation of their respective series.

EDIT: Also, has anyone considered that SSB4 will come out on the next Nintendo console, complete with new controls? I would like to see how Smash would play on a Dual Shock type controller, with dual triggers on each side (and not those sorry excuses for Z triggers on the CC).

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i agree with ducky i don't think any of the original twelve characters are going to be cut. I also don't see g&w or diddy being cut. Diddy is a major part of the Donkey kong series and i can't see them taking out such a major part of a series. As for g&w many said he would be cut after melee and low and behold he appeared in brawl. What im saying is the time to cut him was right after melee and they didnt do it. The point being i think diddy, yoshi, and g&w are staying put.

 

[Deleted member]

Not a flame and not biased based on my main, but I see no reason to cut Yoshi. He may not be a huge star but he's had his fair share of notoriety and he was in some of Ninty's best games. He's also pretty **** popular and if anyone should be removed before him it's someone like Ike or Lucas, neither of which provide the best representation of their respective series.

EDIT: Also, has anyone considered that SSB4 will come out on the next Nintendo console, complete with new controls? I would like to see how Smash would play on a Dual Shock type controller, with dual triggers on each side (and not those sorry excuses for Z triggers on the CC).

Ike represents the fire emblem series pretty well. Not only is he the Main characters in 2 out 10 Fire emblem games (Just below Marth with 3), He started the 3d ones as well.
Plus he fights for his friends.

 

[AlexX]

Two things: 1) the best GCN RPG is Baten Kaitos.

You do realize there were only like... 3 good RPGs on the Gamecube, right? Baten Kaitos is one and Tales of Symphonia is another (and I think the 3rd is Skies of Arcadia, but I don't remember).

2) The keyword here is "Gamecube". In other words, Lloyd's probably only chance was in Brawl. He's a relatively minor character in the Symphonia sequel, so I don't think that's going to help his chances much. Add to that the fact that he is a quite generic jRPG protagonist, and the better choices Namco has to offer, and I don't see it happening...

But how many of them have been on Nintendo systems? ToS is the only Tales game on a Nintendo system released outside Japan, so Lloyd is at least notable in that aspect. I'd also hardly call him a generic JRPG character when he actually looks like a guy, but that might just have to do with the JRPGs I play...

The system his game was on doesn't matter much, either. Olimar was only in two Gamecube games, but he still made it in.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I left Ike alone because...well, I think TWILTHERO's got me covered on that. Lucas could probably go though, now that I think about it.

Again, let me stress that I don't really think those guys'd actually be cut. I'd rather noone go, but I made that list to illustrate the idea I had, not to irk anyone by getting rid of their favorite character.

But for the sake of argument, ducky, would you rather have Yoshi and add, say, 10 new Nintendo characters along with Megaman, Simon, and Bomberman, or would you rather not have your main, and get a roster along the lines I imagined?

And if you must know, I only cut Yoshi because I've never been a huge fan, and it seems like they've just kept making him worse with every new Smash Bros. anyways...so if it helps, just imagine he's still in, but...I don't know...Dedede's out. Anyone, really.

But how many of them have been on Nintendo systems? ToS is the only Tales game on a Nintendo system released outside Japan, so Lloyd is at least notable in that aspect. I'd also hardly call him a generic JRPG character when he actually looks like a guy, but that might just have to do with the JRPGs I play...

The system his game was on doesn't matter much, either. Olimar was only in two Gamecube games, but he still made it in.

Tales of Phantasia's on GBA. But I see your point anyways.

And I wasn't speaking of his looks, really. More his stupid, generic personality. jRPG protagonists like him are a dime a dozen. Finally, Olimar's Nintendo's only totally new IP in almost a decade, Olimar's a very unique character, and we'll be seeing more of him in time.

Anyhoo, I don't really have alot against Lloyd...it's just that, for the few 3rd party slots there may or may not be for SSB4, Namco can do alot better, even for a Tales character, if they must use the franchise.

 

[Dastardly Dylan]

I've got my hopes up to see characters like Geno, Simon Belmont, and Bomberman appear in this installment, however, this is most likely NOT to happen, But I know alot of people that want Geno in the game. Would you agree?

 

[ducky285]

But for the sake of argument, ducky, would you rather have Yoshi and add, say, 10 new Nintendo characters along with Megaman, Simon, and Bomberman, or would you rather not have your main, and get a roster along the lines I imagined?

To be honest, the roster is not one of my top priorities when it comes to the game. A roster of characters that broadly represent Nintendo's various franchises is all I really want and third-parties are gravy. I would rather Yoshi stay since he's an important figure in Nintendo.

What I REALLY want out of the game is a good fighting engine, character balance (it's impossible to get perfect balance but I'd like it to be reasonably close) and something new to the game mechanics so it doesn't feel like Brawl 2.0. My main concern is sheer depth.

Simply put, the roster is the LAST thing on my mind.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Smash Balls = this'd just complicate things without real purpose. How do you keep track of those upgrades? How do you decide when you get which kind of boost? What's the point, when you can just grab a Super Mushroom, and have the same effect?.

Grabbing the smash ball would just enhance all of your smash attacks for X amount of seconds. Not really complicated or hard to keep track of. You would just need to know how the smash ball affects your move properties. Certainly more balanced than Final Smashes.

 

[Deleted member]

Grabbing the smash ball would just enhance all of your smash attacks for X amount of seconds. Not really complicated or hard to keep track of. You would just need to know how the smash ball affects your move properties. Certainly more balanced than Final Smashes.

But............then i'll miss Super Sonic and Triforce slash

 

[Chief Mendez]

Grabbing the smash ball would just enhance all of your smash attacks for X amount of seconds. Not really complicated or hard to keep track of. You would just need to know how the smash ball affects your move properties. Certainly more balanced than Final Smashes.

But nowhere near as fun.

Yeah, certain FSs need balancing (ahem...Super Sonic, anyone?), but they won't be cut.

To be honest, the roster is not one of my top priorities when it comes to the game. A roster of characters that broadly represent Nintendo's various franchises is all I really want and third-parties are gravy. I would rather Yoshi stay since he's an important figure in Nintendo.

What I REALLY want out of the game is a good fighting engine, character balance (it's impossible to get perfect balance but I'd like it to be reasonably close) and something new to the game mechanics so it doesn't feel like Brawl 2.0. My main concern is sheer depth.

Simply put, the roster is the LAST thing on my mind.

Well, assume all those other things are satisfied--the game's perfectly balanced, the engine is totally glitch-free, and the entire affair feels completely fresh.

And like I said, you can leave Yoshi in. Remove a more superfluous character like Lucas instead, it doesn't matter. The ultimate question is: would you rather have a few more characters added to each existing represented franchise, or would you rather see the existing roster trimmed (no series would be totally cut), and have a good ten to fifteen new third party franchises added?

 

[Turbo Ether]

Dashing's possible, but not like this. That's how we dodge roll, in case you forgot. And we're not going to have the L-trigger dash and the R-trigger shield, because I personally use L exclusively to sheild and roll, as I'm sure others do (and don't).

You can re-configure it to the R-trigger in your case. Having two shield buttons is currently redundant. One shield button and one "dash" button would suffice. I'm sure most people would love to have a "wavedash" again.

All of those new specials would just complicate things. If you're hanging on a ledge or on the ground, the only way you can time those moves is all up to your opponent, since you're totally inert. Rising and ledge attacks only serve to keep the opponent at bay as you get back on your feet, and shouldn't be anything more. Besides, I have a feeling if this happened, players would never use the standard rising/ledge attacks, ever.

You would simply have more options. The button inputs are still as simplistic as possible. It's not complicated at all. Assuming balance, ledge specials and ledge attacks would both have a purpose.

And the running special is a moot point, since, again, that's how we do side specials.

You can just do side specials while standing or in midair, similar to how you can only do smashes or tilts while standing still. Running specials open up more offensive options, which are greatly needed considering Brawl has turned out to be a very campy, defensive game.

Considering that alot of people have complained about the lack of competitive depth that Brawl has, I tried to address that, while also trying to keep it simple. Having new options in familiar situations would also be a good way to enhance the combat without totally revamping the game engine. That's why I like this man's quote:

What I REALLY want out of the game is a good fighting engine, character balance (it's impossible to get perfect balance but I'd like it to be reasonably close) and something new to the game mechanics so it doesn't feel like Brawl 2.0. My main concern is sheer depth.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

But nowhere near as fun.

Yeah, certain FSs need balancing (ahem...Super Sonic, anyone?), but they won't be cut.
Well, assume all those other things are satisfied--the game's perfectly balanced, the engine is totally glitch-free, and the entire affair feels completely fresh.

And like I said, you can leave Yoshi in. Remove a more superfluous character like Lucas instead, it doesn't matter. The ultimate question is: would you rather have a few more characters added to each existing represented franchise, or would you rather see the existing roster trimmed (no series would be totally cut), and have a good ten to fifteen new third party franchises added?

i really dont think there should be 10-15 third partys. I think there should only be the major rep for each franchise (for example: snake-konami, sonic-sega, maegaman-capcom and so on) smash is made for nintendo all-stars. I don't want it to be overrun with third-partys.

 

[Dastardly Dylan]

I'd like for Luigi's final smash in the next game to be something from Luigi's Mansion. Like.... Oh... I don't know... THE VACUUM? How can they forget that in Brawl for a final smash? Also if they can do a little bit more work on the Luigi's Mansion level.

Also, alot of people say that more Sonic characters should be added into the mix, I'm not to sure how I feel about this but I'll take advice from fellow Brawlers, What do you guys think? more Sonic characters in SSB4? Yay or Nay?

 

[tirkaro]

Remove a more superfluous character like Lucas instead, it doesn't matter.

Sorry, but Lucas would NEVER be removed. If he did, japanese gamers would be clawing nintendo's eyes out. he's FAR to major to the Mother franchise to be cut.

 

[AlexX]

I left Ike alone because...well, I think TWILTHERO's got me covered on that. Lucas could probably go though, now that I think about it.

Mother 3 is arguably the best game in the series, I assure you Lucas is worthy of keeping.

Anyhoo, I don't really have alot against Lloyd...it's just that, for the few 3rd party slots there may or may not be for SSB4, Namco can do alot better, even for a Tales character, if they must use the franchise.

Who else is from a Tales game that has been on a Nintendo console that's different from Lloyd? Cress is the only other one who comes to mind (thanks for reminding me, by the way), and he's basically just a more conservative version of Lloyd.

I admit there are more preferable options, but how many are notable and popular? As I said before, ToS is one of only 3 good RPGs on the Gamecube, so his game gets a good amount of exposure. Pac-Man is well-known, but how many games are notable? The arcade one, and... that's about it. He's had later installments, even on Nintendo systems, but they're all rather forgettable. Klonoa? Nobody wants anymore furries. His best games are in the Playstation systems. Arthur? Maybe, for the sake of retro-ness, but that's all I can really think of off the top of my head.

 

[Dastardly Dylan]

Nah dude, I wouldn't take out Lucas, he is a very good character. I would rather take out Toon Link, I find him no different from Link himself.

 

[ducky285]

And like I said, you can leave Yoshi in. Remove a more superfluous character like Lucas instead, it doesn't matter. The ultimate question is: would you rather have a few more characters added to each existing represented franchise, or would you rather see the existing roster trimmed (no series would be totally cut), and have a good ten to fifteen new third party franchises added?

Honestly, I'd be happy with 20 or so characters if the game was balanced well enough. Not saying I'd prefer less characters but an overloaded roster is something I don't particularly like unless HAL wants to make the game MvC2 or CvS2 style.

Just seems to me that people are far too concerned about third party characters and obscure minor or semi-major first/second party characters making the roster rather than finding ways to bolster and breathe life into a fighting system that hasn't seen all that much variation in nine years (and three games). I'm all for keeping true to Smash's unique style but there are lots of ways to keep it fresh if the devs really wanted to try.

On another note (and on the subject of MvC2/CvS2 sized rosters), team-style fighting should be an alternate option to the basic 1v1 play. I brought it up a long while back but I think it should be brought up again. Pick three characters and have them switch when one gets KOd. More CvS2 style rather than MvC2 since mid-battle switching and assists would be tough to implement.

 

[C.Olimar788]

And like I said, you can leave Yoshi in. Remove a more superfluous character like Lucas instead, it doesn't matter. The ultimate question is: would you rather have a few more characters added to each existing represented franchise, or would you rather see the existing roster trimmed (no series would be totally cut), and have a good ten to fifteen new third party franchises added?

I suppose I'm kind of butting in a bit on this, but EW. Ten to fifteen third party franchises? I can understand something like adding two or three to the Sea and Konami we already have (more if we lose one of those two), but ten to fifteen? That would just downright SUCK. The idea of Smash Bros. is to have a NINTENDO fighting game with a lot of NINTENDO'S characters. The third parties are kind of just like a bonus, guest characters if you will. But the very idea of the third party character total getting over about 6-8 would blur the idea of Smash Bros.' concept.

And I know I can't even think of that many halfway likely third party companies. I mean, there's stuff like Hudson (Bomberman), Capcom (Mega Man), even Namco (Pacman), but most other companies would be a stretch.

 

[BentoBox]

I think we all know how far character speculation brings us... If they could just revert back to the melee engine, with the same roster and a few extras, I'd be happy.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Can somebody tell me, why do people not want characters in? (Except Tingle)

And 2.

Why do some people want some Non-Clone characters removed?

 

[gantrain05]

i wouldn't take anybody out, thats just lame, as for the clone characters, don't take them out either, i'd just give them new movesets, ganon uses sword and stuff, but i wouldn't go completely back to the melee engine, i'd add back in L-cancel and give the characters back their falling speeds from melee, but then i'd also like to keep the infinite air dodges and leave out wavedashing and get rid of tripping. and as for adding megaman, i don't know, he's a cool character and all, but i don't see how he wouldn't end up being a broken character lol, every one of his attacks would be projectile based pretty much, and super spammable, he's be like samus on steriods.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I suppose I'm kind of butting in a bit on this, but EW. Ten to fifteen third party franchises? I can understand something like adding two or three to the Sea and Konami we already have (more if we lose one of those two), but ten to fifteen? That would just downright SUCK. The idea of Smash Bros. is to have a NINTENDO fighting game with a lot of NINTENDO'S characters. The third parties are kind of just like a bonus, guest characters if you will. But the very idea of the third party character total getting over about 6-8 would blur the idea of Smash Bros.' concept.

And I know I can't even think of that many halfway likely third party companies. I mean, there's stuff like Hudson (Bomberman), Capcom (Mega Man), even Namco (Pacman), but most other companies would be a stretch.

Alright, it's just an idea. Personally, I think it's a fun one--Smash Bros. is the single greatest mash-up game out there, and there isn't any other way alot of my favorite cideogame characters are ever going to get to be in this, my favorite action game, otherwise. And the whole idea was started by asking--how do you make Smash Bros. fresh?

Even if all you people who browbeated me don't like it...at least give me that much: that it'd be a completely new experience.

On a final note, the companies wouldn't be much of a stretch. In Brawl, Nintendo gathered together musicians from all corners of the videogame world for one game--there's no reason why they couldn't do the same with characters if they tried.

Honestly, I'd be happy with 20 or so characters if the game was balanced well enough. Not saying I'd prefer less characters but an overloaded roster is something I don't particularly like unless HAL wants to make the game MvC2 or CvS2 style.

Just seems to me that people are far too concerned about third party characters and obscure minor or semi-major first/second party characters making the roster rather than finding ways to bolster and breathe life into a fighting system that hasn't seen all that much variation in nine years (and three games). I'm all for keeping true to Smash's unique style but there are lots of ways to keep it fresh if the devs really wanted to try.

On another note (and on the subject of MvC2/CvS2 sized rosters), team-style fighting should be an alternate option to the basic 1v1 play. I brought it up a long while back but I think it should be brought up again. Pick three characters and have them switch when one gets KOd. More CvS2 style rather than MvC2 since mid-battle switching and assists would be tough to implement.

I like the Team Fighting idea. If anyone's played the Jump Stars games on DS, you know this style works great in Smash Bros.

This sort of brings me to a theory I've held fora while now: SSB4 shouldn't just add fifteen new characters, ten new stages, some new items, and a new story mode. I'd like to see a fundamental change in the gameplay. So I think they could go two ways with it.

1 - The character list is refined and possibly shrunk. The game engine is refined and deepened--Smash Specials, wavedashing, and other sorts of technical improvements.

2 - Simply put, they add more characters, but simplify the controls and mechanics more. No ground dodging, no smash specials, only two throws, and so on.

But it's just a theory. Thoughts, anyone?

Who else is from a Tales game that has been on a Nintendo console that's different from Lloyd? Cress is the only other one who comes to mind (thanks for reminding me, by the way), and he's basically just a more conservative version of Lloyd.

I admit there are more preferable options, but how many are notable and popular? As I said before, ToS is one of only 3 good RPGs on the Gamecube, so his game gets a good amount of exposure. Pac-Man is well-known, but how many games are notable? The arcade one, and... that's about it. He's had later installments, even on Nintendo systems, but they're all rather forgettable. Klonoa? Nobody wants anymore furries. His best games are in the Playstation systems. Arthur? Maybe, for the sake of retro-ness, but that's all I can really think of off the top of my head.

I was actually thinking of Cress. But Phantasia was my first Tales game (on the SNES, no less), so I'm probably biased.

As for other Namco reps, I really like the idea of The Prince of Cosmos being in the game, especially once Beautiful Katamari comes out on Wii. Other than that, KOS-MOS would be an awesome addition to the game, especially now that Nintendo owns Monolith Soft.

I'd like for Luigi's final smash in the next game to be something from Luigi's Mansion. Like.... Oh... I don't know... THE VACUUM? How can they forget that in Brawl for a final smash? Also if they can do a little bit more work on the Luigi's Mansion level.

Also, alot of people say that more Sonic characters should be added into the mix, I'm not to sure how I feel about this but I'll take advice from fellow Brawlers, What do you guys think? more Sonic characters in SSB4? Yay or Nay?

They need to make Luigi's down special the Poltergust 3000. His FS is great as is, but it's so unfair to screw Mario over and leave his brother alone.

Maybe one more Sonic character. Probably Tails. But I swear to you all, right here and now, that if SSB4 is flooded with all the sh*t characters Sonic Team has stuffed into the rotting carcass that is the Sonic franchise over the pat ten years...I'm not buying it.

You can re-configure it to the R-trigger in your case. Having two shield buttons is currently redundant. One shield button and one "dash" button would suffice. I'm sure most people would love to have a "wavedash" again.

You would simply have more options. The button inputs are still as simplistic as possible. It's not complicated at all. Assuming balance, ledge specials and ledge attacks would both have a purpose.

You can just do side specials while standing or in midair, similar to how you can only do smashes or tilts while standing still. Running specials open up more offensive options, which are greatly needed considering Brawl has turned out to be a very campy, defensive game.

Okay, I apparently had a massive brain fart just then--we can change every button already, so the dash would be fine. I'd personally just have to switch it to R, and put Sheild back on L.

The technique wouldn't make you invincible like a roll, but it would make you faster, and you wouldn't be slowed at all by passing through another character.

But I still don't agree with the rising/ledge specials. When you're getting up or climbing a ledge, you already have at least three different options open to you. I just don't think that particular aspect of the game needs any updates.

The running special, now that I think more about it, could work, but I think it should just be a varition of an already existing special, like a charge shot from Samus that comes out faster, or a quickly fired bowshot with Link that deals little damage.



And one final thing for everyone: stop freaking out about characters being removed. It's probably not going to happen anyway. I'm fully aware of how important each and every character is in their own way, and I didn't actually mean what I wrote about removing them--IT WAS AN IDEA. I love Lucas, too, y'know.

 

[Cat Fight]

Master Chief needs to be a 3rd party character in SSB4, seriously...

Also, the ability to choose more than one character per match.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Master Chief needs to be a 3rd party character in SSB4, seriously...

Also, the ability to choose more than one character per match.

That really does sound like you're being serious.

Anway, things I'd like to see in SSB4:

Claus!
Mewtwo!
No Tripping!
And someone else other than Sakurai making it.

 

[gigasteve]

Master Chief needs to be a 3rd party character in SSB4, seriously...

Also, the ability to choose more than one character per match.

1. Not possible.
2. I think Sonic and Snake are ok, but third parties are taking the "Nintendo" out of this game.

 

[Spire]

**** Master Chief.

 

[AbsoluteZero255]

I think that there should be a super mario galaxy stage in SSB4. don't you agree?

Also, I miss roy (even though I main marth in melee), so put him back in SSB4.

I wish the wifi had less lag..

sorry if these topics have been discussed already.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Smash Bros. Catfight

It's going to be a spin off including only females in scandalous bikinis who only have scratch/slap/hair pull attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

Master Chief needs to be a 3rd party character in SSB4, seriously...

With Cloud, Kratos, Dante, Marcus Fenix, Goku, Naruto, Inuyasha and Chuck Norris right?

 

[Chief Mendez]

1. Not possible.
2. I think Sonic and Snake are ok, but third parties are taking the "Nintendo" out of this game.

It technically isn't totally impossible. There was going to be a Halo DS, after all. But it most likely won't happen anyway.

Your second point is just...way out there. I like love Nintendo as much as the next guy, and that aspect should always be a the forefront of the game, but incorporating all the wonderful characters and setting that other companies have created is always a great thing...unless SEGA tries to get Shadow and Silver in the game.

I think that there should be a super mario galaxy stage in SSB4. don't you agree?

I don't. It's impossible to do it like it should be. Sure, they could make a wide, complex stage a la New Pork City out of the Comet Observatory, and have it fly through the different worlds, changing gravity from light to heavy accordingly...but the big, revolutionary aspect of Galaxy was the round worlds you could circle completely, which is 100% not possible to do in a multiplayer 2D game without splitscreen (which isn't happening, under any circumstances).

Super Smash Bros. Catfight

It's going to be a spin off including only females in scandalous bikinis who only have scratch/slap/hair pull attacks.

...I'd buy it!

 

[Pluvia's other account]

It technically isn't totally impossible. There was going to be a Halo DS, after all. But it most likely won't happen anyway.

Your second point is just...way out there. I like love Nintendo as much as the next guy, and that aspect should always be a the forefront of the game, but incorporating all the wonderful characters and setting that other companies have created is always a great thing...unless SEGA tries to get Shadow and Silver in the game.

Technically, Master Cheir is 4th Party. AKA, Not Smash Material.

I don't. It's impossible to do it like it should be. Sure, they could make a wide, complex stage a la New Pork City out of the Comet Observatory, and have it fly through the different worlds, changing gravity from light to heavy accordingly...but the big, revolutionary aspect of Galaxy was the round worlds you could circle completely, which is 100% not possible to do in a multiplayer 2D game without splitscreen (which isn't happening, under any circumstances).

Or they could just do a stage where the gravity works all over the stage, rather than just on the top.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Technically, Master Cheir is 4th Party. AKA, Not Smash Material.

Or they could just do a stage where the gravity works all over the stage, rather than just on the top.

Microsoft, despite being a competitor with Nintendo for the console market, is still a third party. There's no such thing as a fourth party. I really don't think it's probable, but it's not impossible. Microsoft has worked with Nintendo before since making the XBOX (and will again in the future), so it's not totally out of the question.

So you mean you want a Galaxy stage that you can walk all the way around, right? Like a big circle, right? It won't work in 2D without a splitscreen. There are insurmountable control issues you'd face in such a situation.