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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Big-Cat

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Its much better than Animal Crosser at least. If you understood Nintendo history you would know the significance of the Famicom Disk System to Nintendo. It was the console in which Zelda, Metroid, Nazo no Murasame, Kid Icarus, Castlevania and Shinonigashima were launched on. Games also did not stop being produced for the system until 2003 (though the last new game that was made for the console was back in 1992, which was Clu Clu Land D).
I understand its significance to Nintendo and all, but you can't base roster decisions on that alone. By that logic, we should have the SNES as a playable character as that is where a number of series reached their high point or launched on that console.

Also: Tom Nook>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Animal Crosser
 

ChronoBound

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I understand its significance to Nintendo and all, but you can't base roster decisions on that alone. By that logic, we should have the SNES as a playable character as that is where a number of series reached their high point or launched on that console.

Also: Tom Nook>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Animal Crosser
Diskun is a mascot, not a console.

Also, enough with the furries.
 

Big-Cat

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Diskun is a mascot, not a console.

Also, enough with the furries.
Did Disk-kun ever have his own game like R.O.B. did?

And for the love of God, this whole anti-furry thing you've got going on is asinine. I can see where you're coming from for Krystal, but why no love for Nook? Is it because he's an AC character, he's an anthropomorphic racoon dog, or both?
 

ChronoBound

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Did Disk-kun ever have his own game like R.O.B. did?

And for the love of God, this whole anti-furry thing you've got going on is asinine. I can see where you're coming from for Krystal, but why no love for Nook? Is it because he's an AC character, he's an anthropomorphic racoon dog, or both?
Its because he's an AC character, which are unsuited for fighting, stated by the Smash god Sakurai himself.
 

Big-Cat

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Its because he's an AC character, which are unsuited for fighting, stated by the Smash god Sakurai himself.
This "Smash God" also gave us a crappy Adventure mode storyline. I supposed you say otherwise, huh?
 

Red Arremer

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No no... he said that AC characters don't really fight. Not that they're not suited for fighting. That 'sall.
 

Big-Cat

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Red Arremer

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Ahhh... Okay. Thanks for that, KumaOso.

Besides, though, I remember Tom Nook saying he was champion in some fighting tournament or so some time ago? I don't exactly remember what it was.
 

flyinfilipino

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The only ones from that list that would be acceptable would be Mega Man, Ryu, Simon Belmont, and Crono. Everyone else is a side-character or a villlain of their respective franchises, besides Joe, whom is very likely never to have another game ever again. Most Smash fans have said they rather would have most of the roster be for Nintendo series not yet represented within Smash Bros. rather than a whole bunch of third-party characters.

This is the kind of stupidity that I am working to fight.
What's wrong with sidekick characters or villains?

"Most Smash fans"? Where do you get off speaking for "most Smash fans"? Besides, I said my little imaginary list wasn't limited to just the third-party characters. Because there's a certain aspect of Smash Bros. that I want to see expanded upon that you don't agree with, it's stupid?

At least Joe has appeared in a crossover game already.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. The reason why third-party characters are being suggested en masse, is quite simply due to how much Brawl drained the pool of worthy and important Nintendo characters, especially for veteran series. There is probably only seven characters from veteran series left in that are popular and important enough as of the present that would make decent character additions.

Fortunately, Nintendo still has a lot of other series that have yet to be given a playable character in Smash Bros, which include, but are not limited to, Punch-Out, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Puzzle League, Golden Sun, Stafy, Sin & Punishment. Right there you have seven newcomers, and do more to represent a new aspect of Nintendo than generic space furry #3457.
Like I said, throw those other Nintendo series in. An increase in third-party characters doesn't necessarily have to affect them or be affected by them.

Diskun. Look up the Famicom Disk System.
Everyone's going to see that coming; it'll lose a lot of WTF value, but w/e.

Also, enough with the furries.
WTF.
 

ChronoBound

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The problem is that the next Smash Bros. will most likely have a smaller roster increase than the previous two Smash installments due to increases in technology. This means that it will be more difficult for Sakurai's team to hit 39 characters for Smash 4 than it was for Brawl. There have been few fighting games that have went even over the 40 character mark. If there is even 45 slots in Smash 4, that would make 49 unique characters (since Sakurai counts Brawl as having 39 playable characters). The only notable fighters that have have over 50 fighters are Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (which was horribly unbalanced), maybe a Mortal Kombat game (again horribly unbalanced), and the DBZ fighting games. Assuming no characters are cut from Brawl, we could very well be looking at only 10 newcomers for Smash 4, meaning that room for "stupid" characters is limited. The days of gigantic newcomer lists is over.
 

flyinfilipino

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The problem is that the next Smash Bros. will most likely have a smaller roster increase than the previous two Smash installments due to increases in technology. There have been few fighting games that have went even over the 40 character mark. If there is even 45 slots in Smash 4, that would make 49 unique characters (since Sakurai counts Brawl as having 39 playable characters). The only notable fighters that have have over 50 fighters are Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (which was horribly unbalanced), maybe a Mortal Kombat game (again horribly unbalanced), and the DBZ fighting games. Assuming no characters are cut from Brawl, we could very well be looking at only 10 newcomers for Smash 4, meaning that room for "stupid" characters is limited. The days of gigantic newcomer lists is over.
For some reason, I think an increase of only 10 characters just wouldn't sit well with Sakurai. Besides, the next Smash game is years away. Things will change.

Besides, Sakurai's done a fine enough job of working with nearly 40 characters.
 

ChronoBound

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For some reason, I think an increase of only 10 characters just wouldn't sit well with Sakurai. Besides, the next Smash game is years away. Things will change.

Besides, Sakurai's done a fine enough job of working with nearly 40 characters.
Brawl's roster only offered a 13 character increase over Melee despite there being 18 newcomers. I said that I am expecting there to be 45 slots. Some of Brawl's characters could very well be cut, meaning that there could be more than a minimum of 10 newcomers added to Smash 4. I expect Smash 4 to be a renonvation of the Smash series as opposed to "bigger and more", as Sakurai has said that he thought that simply adding lots of new characters would not make Smash 4 worthwhile (the number that Sakurai used was 50, and it is important to note that Sakurai keeps transformations in mind when he talks about the number of characters on a roster, as he has referred to Melee as having 26 characters and Brawl as having 39).
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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For some reason, I think an increase of only 10 characters just wouldn't sit well with Sakurai. Besides, the next Smash game is years away. Things will change.

Besides, Sakurai's done a fine enough job of working with nearly 40 characters.
Chrono's point is that lists shouldn't have as many "stupid" characters as he said, because undoubtedly it'll have the smallest increase in characters than 64->Melee or Melee->Brawl.

You think Brawl is "fine?" What? Sakurai's done a "fine enough job" with Brawl you think? OK then... If he wasn't as obsessed with all this family and FFA items all stages crap then Brawl would be fine. That's why he made MK and other broken aspects of the game, solely because he expected that none of the demographic he wanted to play Brawl, which means un-competitive kids and their friends, would figure out how broken all these aspects were. God what's wrong with him. He makes Melee, and once he realizes there's a competitive part of it, he does his best to erase that from the next Smash game, without completely destroying it.
 

flyinfilipino

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Chrono's point is that lists shouldn't have as many "stupid" characters as he said, because undoubtedly it'll have the smallest increase in characters than 64->Melee or Melee->Brawl.

You think Brawl is "fine?" What? Sakurai's done a "fine enough job" with Brawl you think? OK then... If he wasn't as obsessed with all this family and FFA items all stages crap then Brawl would be fine. That's why he made MK and other broken aspects of the game, solely because he expected that none of the demographic he wanted to play Brawl, which means un-competitive kids and their friends, would figure out how broken all these aspects were. God what's wrong with him. He makes Melee, and once he realizes there's a competitive part of it, he does his best to erase that from the next Smash game, without completely destroying it.
I know what he means, but I personally wouldn't put an imaginary limit on Smash's roster just yet, especially when there are so many factors that affect the newcomers in the first place.

And I know of all the broken aspects of Brawl, I was trying to avoid an argument over it...I'd rather consider them oversights. The people involved in Brawl+ think they're able to fix it, no? Sakurai can do the same....
 

ChronoBound

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I know what he means, but I personally wouldn't put an imaginary limit on Smash's roster just yet, especially when there are so many factors that affect the newcomers in the first place.

Sakurai himself used the number 50 when saying how many characters his fans expect in Smash 4. Since Sakurai nearly always refers to the number of characters in a Smash game by the total number of character (not just the number of slots), we can infer that he may be thinking about only adding about 10 newcomers to Smash 4 (of course assuming that he does not cut any of the characters that are in Brawl). This is all we have to work with in terms of how many characters we expect Smash 4 to have. It is better to lower our expectations than to have them be disappointed.
 

flyinfilipino

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Sakurai himself used the number 50 when saying how many characters his fans expect in Smash 4. Since Sakurai nearly always refers to the number of characters in a Smash game by the total number of character (not just the number of slots), we can infer that he may be thinking about only adding about 10 newcomers to Smash 4 (of course assuming that he does not cut any of the characters that are in Brawl). This is all we have to work with in terms of how many characters we expect Smash 4 to have. It is better to lower our expectations than to have them be disappointed.
Indeed. But who knows, really. Did he say that right after Brawl's release? Like I said, things can change after many years.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but it's more fun than having the roster be completely predictable. :ohwell:

And it's not stupidity

On another note, CB, what are you doing posting in this thread instead of posting your project/excerpts of it? Are you trying to build support or something?
 

Red Arremer

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The problem with Brawl's balance etc. is not that Sakurai did that on purpose, but rather because he didn't have anymore time left.
Brawl was already delayed and the fans were rampaging, hence they quickly finished up and left, of course, several messes.
 

Surri-Sama

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The problem with Brawl's balance etc. is not that Sakurai did that on purpose, but rather because he didn't have anymore time left.
Brawl was already delayed and the fans were rampaging, hence they quickly finished up and left, of course, several messes.
didn't have enough time eh....FAIL!

He had the time...he just didnt have the HAL
 

ChronoBound

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The problem with Brawl's balance etc. is not that Sakurai did that on purpose, but rather because he didn't have anymore time left.
Brawl was already delayed and the fans were rampaging, hence they quickly finished up and left, of course, several messes.
I believe Sakurai said in an IGN interview around GDC of last year that they tried their best to balance the characters, and that there was no characters that was better than all of the other ones. Sakurai believes tires don exits.
 

Big-Cat

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The problem with Brawl's balance etc. is not that Sakurai did that on purpose, but rather because he didn't have anymore time left.
Brawl was already delayed and the fans were rampaging, hence they quickly finished up and left, of course, several messes.
If time's the issue, then if he develops the next one, he needs to prioritize much better. It's obvious that the Adventure Mode took the majority of the time invested.
 

Lord Viper

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didn't have enough time eh....FAIL!

He had the time...he just didnt have the HAL
Better said, he was rushed, he had years making this game so that can't be it. That and when did you became a mod?!?

 

SirKibble

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Is this conversation for real, guys? I really thought we were above the Sakurai bashing by now. :ohwell:
 

SirKibble

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Looks more to me like a few people whining about how Sakurai didn't balance the game and a few people defending him.

But meh. Have at yourselves.
 

TokiDoki

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Why don't devs just leave the steroided characters the same and just buff the lower ones?
Probably easier said then done.
 

SmashChu

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I know what he means, but I personally wouldn't put an imaginary limit on Smash's roster just yet, especially when there are so many factors that affect the newcomers in the first place.

Sakurai himself used the number 50 when saying how many characters his fans expect in Smash 4. Since Sakurai nearly always refers to the number of characters in a Smash game by the total number of character (not just the number of slots), we can infer that he may be thinking about only adding about 10 newcomers to Smash 4 (of course assuming that he does not cut any of the characters that are in Brawl). This is all we have to work with in terms of how many characters we expect Smash 4 to have. It is better to lower our expectations than to have them be disappointed.
Proof or it didn't happen.
 

ChronoBound

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I know what he means, but I personally wouldn't put an imaginary limit on Smash's roster just yet, especially when there are so many factors that affect the newcomers in the first place.


Proof or it didn't happen.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180244

In the latest issue of EDGE magazine Sakurai stated some interesting things.

4. He says 'right now we have 39 characters. If I made another and had 50 characters would that make a better game? No.'
 

Isidro25

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Proof or it didn't happen.
This. Where would you get that from? I actually heard the other way around; apparently Sakurai stated, on an interview, that Brawl was going to have 35-50 characters. I don't believe this, because the person that told me had no proof. Still, the fact that Sakurai confirmed that he wanted to put more characters in Brawl than those found in the final product makes me doubt the newcomers' list will decrease for SSB4.

Also, Melee added 13 newcomers. Brawl added 15 (Without counting transformations).

EDIT:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180244

In the latest issue of EDGE magazine Sakurai stated some interesting things.

4. He says 'right now we have 39 characters. If I made another and had 50 characters would that make a better game? No.'
I think you're giving this your own point of view. What I see on Sakurai's statement is that he cares about putting more gameplay elements rather than just new characters and stages. I don't think he said 50 as a definitive number; he just used it as an example to justify his point.
 

flyinfilipino

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In the latest issue of EDGE magazine Sakurai stated some interesting things.

4. He says 'right now we have 39 characters. If I made another and had 50 characters would that make a better game? No.'
Whoa, I got misquoted.

Anyway, no actual source? Regardless, that statement does not necessarily mean that 50 is the cap for the roster. Just based on that little snippet, I think he was implying that simply adding characters to add up to 50 and not doing much else would not make for a better game. In other words, there's more to the game than just increasing numbers.
 

ChronoBound

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Whoa, I got misquoted.

Anyway, no actual source? Regardless, that statement does not necessarily mean that 50 is the cap for the roster. Just based on that little snippet, I think he was implying that simply adding characters to add up to 50 and not doing much else would not make for a better game. In other words, there's more to the game than just increasing numbers.
That is the only thread that I know of off-hand. I will try and find more. Sakurai has actually developed the entire series, and knows the limits of development time and programming. I say we take the 50 mark as a precaution, else you will all be doomed to "baaaaaaww Sakurai didn't make 60 slots in the game baaaaaaw". Sakurai used 50 because that is the number he is thinking that he can get to in Smash 4 (including transformations), if he can get above that number, good for us, however, we must take heed about that number or risk being disappointed if it does indeed being that number or possibly lower (49 or 48 lol).
 

Isidro25

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That is the only thread that I know of off-hand. I will try and find more. Sakurai has actually developed the entire series, and knows the limits of development time and programming. I say we take the 50 mark as a precaution, else you will all be doomed to "baaaaaaww Sakurai didn't make 60 slots in the game baaaaaaw". Sakurai used 50 because that is the number he is thinking that he can get to in Smash 4 (including transformations), if he can get above that number, good for us, however, we must take heed about that number or risk being disappointed if it does indeed being that number of possibly lower (49 or 48 lol).
Still, speculation is fun, and since SSB4 is not coming out in a long time, we can speculate to pass the time. I still think we may get 52 character spots, excluding transformations. With Melee having 13 newcomers and Brawl 15, I can see 17 newcomers in SSB4. Of course, this is only if no characters get the boot. An accurate prediction of the roster's size in SSB4 is pretty much impossible. Sakurai can always surprise us. Right now I put my money on 50+, but who knows?

I hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. I know that, from the minute I speculate, reality may turn out the other way. But hey, it's just harmless speculation for me ^^


Btw, project? You've got a SSB4 project or something? Would love to know more about it.
 

flyinfilipino

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That is the only thread that I know of off-hand. I will try and find more. Sakurai has actually developed the entire series, and knows the limits of development time and programming. I say we take the 50 mark as a precaution, else you will all be doomed to "baaaaaaww Sakurai didn't make 60 slots in the game baaaaaaw". Sakurai used 50 because that is the number he is thinking that he can get to in Smash 4 (including transformations), if he can get above that number, good for us, however, we must take heed about that number or risk being disappointed if it does indeed being that number or possibly lower (49 or 48 lol).
Well, take from it what you will.

I won't really be disappointed if we get a lower number than 60 or whatever. Quality over quantity.
 

ChronoBound

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Still, speculation is fun, and since SSB4 is not coming out in a long time, we can speculate to pass the time. I still think we may get 52 character spots, excluding transformations. With Melee having 13 newcomers and Brawl 15, I can see 17 newcomers in SSB4. Of course, this is only if no characters get the boot. An accurate prediction of the roster's size in SSB4 is pretty much impossible. Sakurai can always surprise us. Right now I put my money on 50+, but who knows?

I hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. I know that, from the minute I speculate, reality may turn out the other way. But hey, it's just harmless speculation for me ^^


Btw, project? You've got a SSB4 project or something? Would love to know more about it.
Unfortunately, everyone is partying while the Titantic is going down (the Titantic being the age of large newcomer lists). If you don't learn to temper your expectations in regards to the roster number, you will be severely disappointed in Smash 4 even if it were to rectify all the flaws Brawl had.

Remember, Sakurai originally was only going to have Melee have 20 characters, which would have only been a 8character increase over 64.

It seems as though everyone is covering their ears simply because what this revelation could mean to a lot of the characters on their fantasy rosters.
 

Lovely

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Hopfully the next Smash Brothers hidden characters will bring more astonishment to people's minds than Smash X's rouster. :x ♥
 

flyinfilipino

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Unfortunately, everyone is partying while the Titantic is going down (the Titantic being the age of large newcomer lists). If you don't learn to temper your expectations in regards to the roster number, you will be severely disappointed in Smash 4 even if it were to rectify all the flaws Brawl had.

Remember, Sakurai originally was only going to have Melee have 20 characters, which would have only been a 8character increase over 64.

It seems as though everyone is covering their ears simply because what this revelation could mean to a lot of the characters on their fantasy rosters.
Well, it seems you're trying to be all doom and gloom on us when the next game is many years away because you want attention. You want to be right about something, and you want recognition for it.

Sakurai had an original plan for Melee, but he added more characters anyway. Things change.
 
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