[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[justaway12]

[Image too big to quote]

This is the only thing that could force me to leave the SSB franchise forever.

One Sonic character is good. It's a Nintendo game, after all.

I doubt they will add sonic characters and even if they are it's probably just one or two more but you're right the fact that it's a nintendo game would probably get in the way of them getting in.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

This is the only thing that could force me to leave the SSB franchise forever.

One Sonic character is good. It's a Nintendo game, after all.

as bad as ^^^^ would be, adding one more sonic char wouldn't destroy the game, imo.

 

[UncleSam]

Very interesting. Would the Alt.s have a different range of moves? For instance: Dark Samus is a very different fighter from Samus. (Just play MP 2 and 3.)

Exactly, different moveset, a little heavier, a little slower, a little more powerful. People might think of Dark Samus as a ditto tho if she she/it was her/its own character, as For sonic, I think 3rd Party characters were experimental, nintendo just wanted too see if people liked it better because Solid Snake was in it

 

[Mythic02]

No the alternates just look alike, no new moveset. Its a way to make new characters without clones filling up the roster spots

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This is the only thing that could force me to leave the SSB franchise forever.

One Sonic character is good. It's a Nintendo game, after all.

I can see Tails and Knuckles in the next game, but most of the other characters will likely be denied.

 

[spunit262]

Stop quoting that image!

 

[Kraryo]

Wario's overalls should be his default costume in SSB4. While they do focus mostly on the Wario Ware series as of now, Wario's most iconic apperances were in the Wario Land games where he was a badass who shoulder charged his enemies, was pretty nimble, and went on treasure hunting adventures. And he wore his overalls in all of those games (although not his usual hat for the 1st 2).

Wario never wore his Wario Ware outfit when he was in all of the Mario spinoff games, crossovers like Wario Blast (Wario and Bomberman) and Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. The only time Wario ever wore his WW costume in a crossover was in Brawl and that somehow outprioritizes Wario Land Wario. Also, his side b is his Wario Bike instead of his more iconic Shoulder Charge. I'm pretty positive that Wario Ware is one of Sakurai's favorite franchises (out of the ones that he didn't make).

Even though I want them to be Wario's default costume, his overalls aren't nearly a fraction as important to his character as Krystal using her staff. Wario is still a very great character without his overalls, but since Krystal is so dependent on her staff, Sakurai should let her use it for most of her attacks when she becomes a playable character in SSB4. I would like there to be a Wario Land stage for SSB4 as well.

 

[Mythic02]

Krystal will get her staff
I really want sakurai to fix falco and wolf before Krystal gets put in. They are semi clones now but change them even a bit more and give one a new moveset. We are okay with one semiclone but we don't need 3 people that are the same. Fix our current roster before we get new people.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I don't know, to me calling Wolf a clone at all is like calling Luigi a clone in Brawl... ☆

 

[Mythic02]

I know( wolf is a bit more of a clone than luigi but he's still pretty different) but do we need to people that are colned/luigified clones why don't we just make one luigified clone (wolf with maybe an altered reflector since it's the most same) and one totally different character(falco). I know many people are okay with them but i don't need 3 similar characters. The least nintendo could do is alter falco's moves and change the Final smash.

 

[Sunshine Bear]

I want all of the lost characters back, even though they sucked.

Add:

1. Megaman
2. Knuckles
3. Fierce Deity's Link [epic]
4. Deoxys
5. Ryu [street fighter]
6. Mii [create your own]

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

The least nintendo could do is alter falco's moves and change the Final smash.

Actually, the least they could do is leave it the same as it is now.

I don't know why people always expect them to remove clones (or why they expected them to remove clones for Brawl). Practically all fighting games have clones, but people don't complain about them except in Smash.

That said, I do wish the Star Fox characters didn't all have the same Final Smash.

 

[Mythic02]

Grabs and throws really need a boost. I remember in ssb mario's back throw could kill. It was nerfed in melee but it would still get opponents far off the stage. And in brawl it sucks. You could suicide with DK grab in 64, get closed to suiciding if you're opponent has okay damage on them, and in brawl you can barely get your opponent off the stage. Grabs were so much better but now the only useful ones are chain grabs. If grabs finally got back there knockback they'd be more useful but prevents O% to death chain grabs. They really need boosted.

@Sir Ilpalazzo: I'm just ranting at nintendo because i think starfox deserves better than 3 similar characters. I know they probs won't see this(though if they did it would be smart and they would make lots of people handy) but i still want them at least less clonish. Arwing for falco and something new for wolf.

 

[Roy-Kun]

I think the throws are fine as they are. Just try to imagine Marth's normal (Forward) throw to be strong as if it was like SSB64... it would be ridiculous, and... logically, illogical. Mario chars are the ones so far with decent throws right? (Hey, Mario can throw Bowser pretty far in SSB64/DS).

 

[Scott!]

Actually, the least they could do is leave it the same as it is now.

I don't know why people always expect them to remove clones (or why they expected them to remove clones for Brawl). Practically all fighting games have clones, but people don't complain about them except in Smash.

That said, I do wish the Star Fox characters didn't all have the same Final Smash.

People probably complain because here, unlike most other fighting games, the characters have significance outside of the game. You come into Smash knowing at least a few of the characters, and you of course want them to be awesome. People feel slighted when characters they think are popular or awesome enough to deserve more effort than cloning receive exactly that.

That said, Wolf really shouldn't count as a Fox clone. Almost none of their normal attacks are remotely similar, and all of the specials are heavily modified. They don't play at all alike either. It's like this. Say Fox is a best selling book. If Falco and Wolf were movies based on the book, then Falco would be "Based on the bestselling book..." and Wolf would be "Inspired by the bestselling book..." Fox and Falco are fairly similar, but Wolf is pretty different.

And their Final Smashes should all be different.

 

[yotipo91]

I don't know anyone who plays as wolf. I'm not experienced in Brawl, but I never got a good feel for wolf.

And well worded, Scott.... though 3 from one series is pushing it.

 

[kid x]

Grabs and throws really need a boost. I remember in ssb mario's back throw could kill. It was nerfed in melee but it would still get opponents far off the stage. And in brawl it sucks. You could suicide with DK grab in 64, get closed to suiciding if you're opponent has okay damage on them, and in brawl you can barely get your opponent off the stage. Grabs were so much better but now the only useful ones are chain grabs. If grabs finally got back there knockback they'd be more useful but prevents O% to death chain grabs. They really need boosted.

@Sir Ilpalazzo: I'm just ranting at nintendo because i think starfox deserves better than 3 similar characters. I know they probs won't see this(though if they did it would be smart and they would make lots of people handy) but i still want them at least less clonish. Arwing for falco and something new for wolf.

You just sparked my memory! I also remember when throws were more powerful and they should bring their knockback back.

It seems like pretty much everything got nerfed in Brawl. Characters are more floaty, game play seems slowed, moves that used to be powerful are weak, etc.

 

[Mythic02]

@ Roy kun: I just want back the power that was in melee. Grabs used to be awesome. Now you have to be able to chain grab a throw to make it useful which i despise since chain grabbing and more knockback means less chaingrabs. It's surprisingly fun to throw your opponent into oblivion which is very hard to do in brawl.

@Scott: That was very well worded but I'm talking about how fox is like mario in melee. Fox is mario, Wolf is luigi, and Falco is Dr. mario. Wolf is very different and i just want the finishing touches on him to seperate him from fox. Falco on the other hand has quite a bit of work to do to fix him. I want falco fixed before we add Krystal.

 

[Vorguen]

Why are people so insistent on making Krystal the next Star Fox character? She is lame.

 

[kid x]

Do you have any other ideas on who the next Star Fox character could be without being a clone? (Not tryna be sarcastic)

 

[WeXzuZ]

Things to do for SSB4:

Fix the intro, don't use adventure cut scenes.
Adventure mode needs to be less repeatative.
More Stadium Games (Board the Platforms?)
Better online play, with a lobby to see who is online and probably a set handicap so you can play with people at your "skill-level" ala Mario Kart Wii.
FULL custumization on controls, there are still some options that have been forgotten, which I wish were not.

Character franchises to be added:
Animal Crossing
Banjo Kazooie (wont happen I think =/)
Bomberman
Megaman
Golden Sun

New characters
Bowser Jr.
King K. Rool
Non-clone Ganondorf
More creative Final Smashes (one Landmaster is fine)

Alt Colors to be added:
Dr. Mario
Soar Mario (Mario in black and red colors when he can fly as in Galaxy)
Mr. L
Black, White, Golden or Purple Yoshi
Female/Rival Pokemon Trainer
Sonic should not be different blue colors, but fully re-colored
Dry Bowser

Super Mario Galaxy stage

 

[kid x]

Things to do for SSB4:

Fix the intro, don't use adventure cut scenes.
Adventure mode needs to be less repeatative.
More Stadium Games (Board the Platforms?)
Better online play, with a lobby to see who is online and probably a set handicap so you can play with people at your "skill-level" ala Mario Kart Wii.
FULL custumization on controls, there are still some options that have been forgotten, which I wish were not.

Character franchises to be added:
Animal Crossing
Banjo Kazooie (wont happen I think =/)
Bomberman
Megaman
Golden Sun

New characters
Bowser Jr.
King K. Rool
Non-clone Ganondorf
More creative Final Smashes (one Landmaster is fine)

Alt Colors to be added:
Dr. Mario
Soar Mario (Mario in black and red colors when he can fly as in Galaxy)
Mr. L
Black, White, Golden or Purple Yoshi
Female/Rival Pokemon Trainer
Sonic should not be different blue colors, but fully re-colored
Dry Bowser

Super Mario Galaxy stage

How popular is Golden Sun? I'm not familiar with the series.

I don't think they should add Bowser Jr. because... what moves would he have that would be original? Unless they made him utilize his paintbrush from Sunshine.

 

[justaway12]

I'm pretty sure they would change falcos final smash to an arwing he does prefer the air.

@Kid X:Why wouldn't they give him his paint brush? I think he would make a great addition to brawl.

 

[kid x]

Well, Nintendo does make some bad decisions IMO. Of course if they added him with his paintbrush, I'd have no problem, even if they made like one or two moves like Bowser's.

Though, I would prefer Toad in before Bowser Jr., even though a moveset would be quite tricky.

 

[justaway12]

I think bowser jr. and possibly waluigi have a chance over toad.

 

[Vorguen]

Toad has to go in before anyone else! Toad has been around since the very beggining and has even been a playable character in Mario 2! (even though we all know it wasn't supposed to be that way bla bla bla)

Eve since Super Mario Kart for SNES Toad has been my favorite Mario Bros. character and I would like to see him as anything other than a meatshield for Peach.

Toad is my number 1 choice for new character. Geno is my second. Mega Man my third.

 

[Mythic02]

Here's how i think the standing order goes. Bowser jr.>Toad>Waluigi>Daisy. Bowser jr. is 1st because he has a role in all the plots. Toad was important once or twice but has never really been extremely important. Waluigi is less of a clone than daisy IMO so he gets higher. Personally i don't care if they all get in but i want the top 2

 

[justaway12]

I suppose Toad has a better chance than Waluigi but I don't know about that but bowser jr. is more important than toad in most game toad has not been that important and other than super mario bros 2 and wario woods.

@Mythic: There isn't really a chance of daisy being a clone since peachs move were taken out of her game I think they would either have her as a unique/luigified playable charcter or not have her at all and keep her as an alt. coustume.

 

[Vorguen]

I had never even heard of Bowser Jr. And to be honest Toad would be a much more original character, and he has always been influencing Mario games a lot more than we realize (The mushroom for life up, the mushrooms in Mario Kart for speed, etc)

 

[justaway12]

I had never even heard of Bowser Jr. And to be honest Toad would be a much more original character, and he has always been influencing Mario games a lot more than we realize (The mushroom for life up, the mushrooms in Mario Kart for speed, etc)

Yes but unless its actually him it doesn't count and I don't think toad influnced that, I think the fact that they live in the mushroom kingdom gave them the idea of toads and the mushroom power ups

 

[Vorguen]

Either way Toad is the ultimate mushroom! Besides, Bowser Jr. is a spin-off of Bowser. Toad is his own character!


PS: Justaway, how do you manage to find yourself into every argument I try to get myself into on smashboards? stalker!?!??!?!!!

 

[Kraryo]

Toad would be better than Bowser Jr. He has his own game and is one of the Big Eight, so he should have priority over Bowser Jr.

 

[justaway12]

Either way Toad is the ultimate mushroom! Besides, Bowser Jr. is a spin-off of Bowser. Toad is his own character!


PS: Justaway, how do you manage to find yourself into every argument I try to get myself into on smashboards? stalker!?!??!?!!!

He is just bowsers kid what did you expect him to be and he played a much more important role in his games.

Hey I posted in this thread WAY before you, you're the stalker!

@Kraryo: Of course bowser jr. wouldn't have his own game he is a villian but he is still as important as toad and honestly that game isn't as important as sunshine.

 

[Mythic02]

Why can't we have both Bowser jr. and Toad. Imo the cap should be 6 characters not including spin offs so they could both fit.

 

[Archangel]

I think it is about time Gannon got his Sword. Am I right?

 

[Mythic02]

Yeah, everyone here can agree ganon needs his sword.

 

[CRASHiC]

First off, no more than 2 non-nintendo people at a time.

Second, Melee advanced the attacking game, Brawl the defense game, take bits of these, I don't want grabs any more powerful than in Melee, perhaps slightly less. I believe charecters should become more polarized, give Captain Falcon the ability to do major combos by increasing his hit stun, but leave Dededee the way he is. Imagine if they mixed the systems of brawl and Melee in various ways, manily by sharply dividing the offensive characters (C. Falcon, Fox, Marth) the mind game characters (Diddy, Snake, Olimar) and the defensive characters (Dededee, Wario, Ganon). The only character that I can really think of hurting from this system is Lucario, the all arounder.

3- We have many things that are somewhat useless now that could be upgraded; crawls, wall cling, and swimming. Step em up.

4- A true retro uniform, bringing the character back to its original graphic scheme. Imagine using a choppy Mario from the original Donkey Kong and a Diddy from Donkey Kong Country.

5- The character wishlist of course.
Slippy- They could have some fun coming up with gadgets for him. And someone needs to show fox up on the jump speed.
Ridley- It would be difficult to balance, but we do need more samus rep here, maybe one that can be high tier.
Space Pirate Commando- MUCH better alternative. What I would most like to see here is some sort of phazon thing similar to what Lucario has, only based on a Wario time line. He could be a very varied character, having a shield, weapon, a projectile, and a decent recovery move.
King K- We need more defensive charecters. King K would be a good addition to that.
Geno- Nuff said.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

More Stadium Games (Board the Platforms?)

YES.

Better online play, with a lobby to see who is online

YES. Massively better online play is necessary

Animal Crossing

Noooo.

Banjo Kazooie

Er... Banjo-Kazooie isn't owned by Nintendo and isn't cool like Snake, and unlike Sonic his games aren't even for the Wii.

Bomberman

Potentially, but he really is kind of lacking in abilities. He can drop bombs... and... what?

Megaman

Again, not a Nintendo character.

Golden Sun

That could be sweet.

Bowser Jr.

Would be incredibly lame. I really hope they don't include Bowser Jr.; he's lame. The Koopa Kids are cooler, and even they are too lame to be included, and they'd just be lame clones anyway.

King K. Rool

That could be cool.

More creative Final Smashes (one Landmaster is fine)

I hope they completely change the Final Smash mechanic. One thing that might be cool would be to charge it with taunts, as a means of making stalling less possible.

Really, the Mario franchise is tapped. Waluigi is lame as heck, Bowser Jr. is lame, Daisy is lame (and just an alt colored peach anyway), and Toad isn't really a fighter. Really you're looking at overly-specific characters. If any such character were to be added, I'd say it should be Magikoopa. So there shouldn't be any new mario characters. There weren't this game, and I hope they don't put any more in next game, either. But they've held steady for two games, so hopefully they'll come from other franchises.

Honestly, I think the Bomberman suggestion is the best one, as are Golden Sun and King K. Rool. They could always throw in another pokemon, because pokemon are arbitrarily cool. Krystal would be a good addition, so long as she acted more like she did in Dinosaur planet rather than being yet another Fox clone.

Once you get beyond that, I'm not sure what else there is worth adding, character-wise. You could always dip into the more obscure games for a sufficiently cool character.

Final Smashes need to be made less broken, and it'd be nice if they were more integrated into gameplay, though they're okay as items so long as they're fairer (as battling over smash balls is kind of cool). Giving Falco and Wolf distinctive final smashes would be cool, too.

I'd like to see the more punchy style of Brawl maintained, with combos being short and sparse.

I'd like to see chaingrabs and similar things removed entirely.

Infinites should be removed. You should not be able to infinite someone against a wall, either. That includes ICs.

...that's really about it in terms of direct wants, though of course more cool stages would be nice, as would a better stage builder (one which doesn't suck, in other words). More single-player and multiplayer modes would be nice, as always. Having varied stages is a good thing, and walls shouldn't be abusable so that they can be used in actual tournament play more often.

 

[justaway12]

I love that retro outfit thing why didn't i think of that? we could send marth back to the time when he wasn't a pretty boy and I guess characters like Ike and Olimar (before pixilated times) would get pixelated like mario but what about mr.game and watch how can we just exclude him .

@Titanium dragon: Just because YOU think charater is lame like bowser jr., waluigi and daisy doesn't mean they won't be added and toad may not be a fighter but neither is peach and he has stared in super mario bros. 2 and yes I do know peach stared in Super princess peach, super mario bros 2, Super mario RPG and Super paper mario but still....what about R.O.B, Mr.Game and Watch and The Ice climbers?

I don't think final smashs need to be less powerful this was just made to be a casual game the final smashs make it more fun and the final smash is fun as it is IMO.

 

[GwJ]

I think it is about time Gannon got his Sword. Am I right?

QFT

We need this.