[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[WolfCypher]

What the **** are you talking about? As a Mario main, I'm deeply offended by even suggesting to change his specials. They are PERFECT. The only thing in Mario's moveset that should be changed is his dtilt.

No, wouldn't it be ok to update one or tow of his moves for Galaxy or whatever SMB game we get later down the line? Not chane him completely, but like how the Fludd was added for the sake of Super Mario Sunshine, why not give Mario and SMGalaxy or whatever futre Mario game-inspired attack(s)?

 

[Scott!]

For a Galaxy-fied Mario, he could shoot out star bits instead of fireballs, perhaps? I mean, he does shoot both in the game, but star bits were more significant, and would only be a small change. And since he had his spin as a move, would his down special return to that, thus returning his old down air? Eh, I don't know if that would be the best, but it could happen, I guess.

 

[LSDX]

Since I do not feel the need to give constructive conversation to the thread after quite time, I shall troll and ask some questions regarding the next Smash Bros. title:

1). What new franchises will be represented?

2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?

3). Which one to three characters should be cut?

4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?

5). What new features should be added?

6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?

7). Who would you rather have be the director?

---
My answers:

1. Golden Sun and Megaman

2. Probably Super Mario Galaxy representation and fifth generation of Pokemon.

3. No character should have been cut in the first place..

4. Ganondorf; give his cloned moveset to a character that would make sense, like Black Shadow from F-Zero.

5. More online-play options for setting up rooms that wait on ques. Also, a better story mode that instead of platforming elements, include cut-scenes and actual fights instead of adventuring portions. Also a vastly improved Stage Editor would be welcomed.

6. Geno (obviously), Roy (my Melee main and one of my favorite gaming characters), Ridley (he has so much potential it could sh*t bricks).

7. Someone other than M. Sakurai due to his lack of fan support. He should stick to directing Kirby games (which I love). If not him, anybody but S. Miyamoto! He'd probably turn it into a Wii Fit 2.

 

[WolfCypher]

Just make his Down Air (Mario Tornado) produce a Luma after he ends the attack, like in SMG.

 

[WolfCypher]

Since I do not feel the need to give constructive conversation to the thread after quite time, I shall troll and ask some questions regarding the next Smash Bros. title:

1). What new franchises will be represented?
Punch-Out! Golden Sun, Captain Rainbow, Sin & Punishment, etc...

2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?
All except Earthbound, Ice Climber, Game & Watch, Kid Icarus (unless that new KI game comes out), R.O.B., and maybe F-Zero

3). Which one to three characters should be cut?
None have to be cut, but I'd cut Pokémon Trainer. Way too many 1st Generation Pokémon reps, and it would free up some slots for more characters in general.

4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?
Ganondorf

5). What new features should be added?
Downloadable content

6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?
King K. Rool, Mewtwo, and Mega Man

7). Who would you rather have be the director?
That Asian guy what did the 1st three SSB games.

10 letters.

 

[Linkshot]

1) MegaMan. Is there anything Nintendo HASN'T repped in some form for Brawl? Ah, right. Diskun!
Remember! This includes AT's, so Golden Sun, Stafy Densetsu, Balloon Fight (song and fish), etc have already been repped. (Unless he means specifically characters)

2) Mario, Wario, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Zelda, Star Fox, Metroid, Pokemon.

3) Nobody.

4) Ganondorf

5) New minigames, more bosses, less adventuring, better Stage Builder, better online if at all possible, more events, actual KnockOffScreen bosses that aren't playable.

6) Mewtwo, Django (to replace Snake), Sylux

7) None other than Shigesato Itoi :D Let's see how he fares :3

 

[Scott!]

1). What new franchises will be represented?
Golden Sun, Megaman, who knows.

2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?
Most of the main ones'll get someone new, probably.

3). Which one to three characters should be cut?
Though I'm opposed to any cutting, I'd have to say ROB, Pokemon Trainer (though with a different, updated one in its place), and... I don't know. No one?

4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?
Toon Link, please.

5). What new features should be added?
Well, an improved Stage Builder would be nice. Perhaps if we could have stages with solid bases that didn't end, like Yoshi's Island (Brawl) and such. And more flexibility in general would be good to have. They should work out the lag problems in the online too. Bring back the bonus points in the 1-player modes. Give the Adventure mode, whatever it is, more variety, and more actual Nintendo enemies.

6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?
I still want Banjo... but that's not gonna happen, most likely. I wanted Banjo for Melee too, but I knew he wouldn't make Brawl. Amaterasu would rock hard, but again, not very likely. And Rosalina too. Wow, all the people I want are most likely not going to ever make it, with the possible exception of Rosalina if she returns enough. But I can dream.

7). Who would you rather have be the director? I wouldn't change it.

 

[Linkshot]

I changed my mind!

I want Bungie to direct it XD

 

[Kraryo]

1). What new franchises will be represented?

2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?

3). Which one to three characters should be cut?

4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?

5). What new features should be added?

6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?

7). Who would you rather have be the director?

1. Animal Crossing and Megaman

2. Mario, Retro, Sonic, Starfox, Metroid, and F-Zero.

3. Either Wolf or Falco. Wolf is a villian which is unique, but it wouldn't be too hard to just make him into an alternate outfit for Fox instead of keeping him. Falco's character design is too different from Fox to be an alternate costume for him.

Whatever original special moveset involving weapons from Assault would be easily interchangable between the two.

4. Ganondorf. Nuff said.

5. A mode where you can choose multiple characters for one round would be neat. After dying, you would switch to another character of your choice like in sse. Even neater would be to have the ability to change your selected characters anytime you want to. Of course, this would be an optional mode.

6. Krystal

7.Probably somebody who likes making competetive games and not completly removing stuff that add depth to the gameplay like Wavedashing and L-Cancelling instead of making them easier to do.

 

[MaxfireXSA]

For a Galaxy-fied Mario, he could shoot out star bits instead of fireballs, perhaps? I mean, he does shoot both in the game, but star bits were more significant, and would only be a small change. And since he had his spin as a move, would his down special return to that, thus returning his old down air? Eh, I don't know if that would be the best, but it could happen, I guess.

Not Star Bits for Mario. Using Fireball would work with Mario's side smash.

Since I do not feel the need to give constructive conversation to the thread after quite time, I shall troll and ask some questions regarding the next Smash Bros. title:

1). What new franchises will be represented?

2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?

3). Which one to three characters should be cut?

4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?

5). What new features should be added?

6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?

7). Who would you rather have be the director?

1. Megaman, Crash Bandicoot, Billy the Hatcher, Spyro the Dragon, Pac-Man, Ms.Pac Man, Mr.Driller, Guy from "Dig Dug", Viewtiful Joe, Viewtiful Sylvia, Krystal, Ninja from 'I-Ninja', Night, Taz the Tasmanian Tiger, and maybe some 'Snowboard Kids' characters like Slash.
2. All previous characters from 'Melee' and 'Brawl'.
3. Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Mr.Game & Watch.
4. Captain Falcon, because Ganondorf's moves were ridiculous and needs to be edited.
5. Mii Upload, Designated Character Upload from the Computer(where you created a Character using Smash Design on your computer), Survival Mode, Timed Attack, Watch Mode, and Mini-Game Mode.
6. 1. Megaman
   2. Travis Touchdown
   3. Alucard
7. Yes, to give you a plan.

 

[Scott!]

5. A mode where you can choose multiple characters for one round would be neat. After dying, you would switch to another character of your choice like in sse. Even neater would be to have the ability to change your selected characters anytime you want to. Of course, this would be an optional mode.

Ooh, that first bit sounds good. Maybe they could just make a full-blown tag team battle mode. Make taunt switch out to another character of choice. Just as long as switching wasn't like it is now with PT or Zelda/Sheik, i.e. epically slow, and inconsistently so. But it has serious potential for fun. And who knows, it could become a viable tournament mode. But there is so much potential for awesome lineups. You could use so many Pokemon in one match... And a Fire Emblem only team would be fearful. Mario + Luigi, MK and DeDeDe, Ness and Lucas, all the epic pairs could do some serious epic damage.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

1). What new franchises will be represented?
Hmm, not sure. I'll skip that one.
2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?
Sonic, I want. But doubt >.> Mario, DK (I wish anyways), Pokemon, LoZ
3). Which one to three characters should be cut?
Erm, I'd say.. Hmm not sure :/ Cut Wolf, then re-add with a new moveset. Cut his and falco's final smash's tambien.
4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?
Ganondorf.
5). What new features should be added?
Servers for on-line!!! MUCH better stage builder; bring back the red shell! Make a better story mode pwetty pwease
6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?
Banjo-Kazooie (can't go wrong there ), King K. Rool, Knuckles the Echidna
7). Who would you rather have be the director?
We wouldn't even have Smash if it weren't for Sakurai; keep 'em

 

[GamenerdAdvance]

As far as Mario B moves go, I'd say the Cape is ripe for removal. In Melee, Mario had two universal B attacks (Fireballs and Super Jump Punch). He also had two specialised B attacks; the Cape which originated from SMW and the spin which was based on Mario 64 (these were the two most recent "core" Mario games at the time). In Brawl, they needed a Sunshine move to represent SMS, but that requires removing a move. The Universal Specials are attacks that have been pretty constant throughout the Mario series, so they're out of the question. That leaves two attacks, the cape and spin. Which to replace? The more generic one, obviously, and the Tornado gets the chop.

In 6 or so years time, they'll be making the same decision; should we replace the FLUDD, a unique specialist move, or the Cape, a generic attack from an outdated game?

And that is why, as far as I'm concerned, replacing the cape with Galaxy's spin (which could function quite similarly to the cape) is almost definate.

 

[Pieman0920]

The spin wasn't from (or in) SM64. It was from SM3 I think...not quite sure on that, though I am sure it was in World. Seeing how useful though the cape is, in comparison to FLUDD, I'd say the choice is clear what should be replaced. Fan reaction on the whole for the cape has been positive, while FLUDD has been negative. Of course balancing is what the main problem is, but seeing as Mario's so low on the tier lists, he could easily be improved by giving him a move that actually does something, rather than taking away one his better ones. Also, as the Galaxy spin was basically a varient of the standard spin, its the down B that is poised to be the move that gets replaced yet again.

 

[GamenerdAdvance]

The spin wasn't from (or in) SM64. It was from SM3 I think...not quite sure on that, though I am sure it was in World. Seeing how useful though the cape is, in comparison to FLUDD, I'd say the choice is clear what should be replaced. Fan reaction on the whole for the cape has been positive, while FLUDD has been negative. Of course balancing is what the main problem is, but seeing as Mario's so low on the tier lists, he could easily be improved by giving him a move that actually does something, rather than taking away one his better ones. Also, as the Galaxy spin was basically a varient of the standard spin, its the down B that is poised to be the move that gets replaced yet again.

None of the games actually had that spin. It was, however, blatantly inspired by the many flips, spins and acrobatic moves of Mario in SM64.

And the Galaxy Spin does not do damage, it flips things over. Not at all like he standard spin. Hell, they could even give it a similar function to the cape, so long as it still represents Galaxy.

 

[Pieman0920]

None of the games actually had that spin. It was, however, blatantly inspired by the many flips, spins and acrobatic moves of Mario in SM64.

And the Galaxy Spin does not do damage, it flips things over. Not at all like he standard spin. Hell, they could even give it a similar function to the cape, so long as it still represents Galaxy.

Have you played SMW? There's a spin attack right in it. Check it out. If anything, its the cape move that was made up, since he never just swings it out in front of him. Still, it seems completely pointless to take out his spin move, replace it with a move that doesn't do damage, and then give him a new spinning move that doesn't do damage, but making it replace a completely unrelated move. Its really not a good idea, and the only way it'd make sense if it just replaced teh FLUDD, and made Mario go back to the status quo, instead of some inane sense of balance between the games that you're trying to propose. Remember, Smash isn't just about what's new, it also remembers what's old. At this point, there's no correlation between Mario's moves and how recent his games are, so you should stop trying to probe at that.

EDIT: Wow, I have egg on my face.

Still, its kinda clear that the SMW drill kick is closer to the tornado than the move proposed in the video, though the guy does mention the SMW as well.

 

[Kraryo]

Why remove Mario's cape which is one of his most unique and useful attacks? They could just change his dair animation to be his spin attack from Galaxy.

 

[Lord Viper]

And the Galaxy Spin does not do damage, it flips things over.

When he spins on a big Goomba twice, he kills it, when he spins on weak foes, he kills it, when he spins on Bowser when his tail is on fire the he spins in his shell then when Mario spins he damage Bowser. So... have you even played Galaxy's before?

 

[chansen]

Why remove Mario's cape which is one of his most unique and useful attacks? They could just change his dair animation to be his spin attack from Galaxy.

That's largely due to the fact that Sakurai isn't actually trying to make the game better by any means. He just wants more people to play it. Being that scubs largely outnumber the amount of people that take this game(s) seriously, I think that his appeal to them is much more important than his appeal to us.

Example: Snake.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

all I want is good online, Melee hitstun, Wavdash, no auto sweet spotting, jigglypuff top tier, No Sakurai.

 

[Snowstalker]

My roster:

Mario
Luigi (unlockable)
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr. (unlockable)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (unlockable)
King K. Rool
Yoshi
Wario (unlockable)
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link (unlockable)
Vaati (unlockable)
Samus
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
Little Mac
Lip (unlockable)
Mr. Game & Watch (unlockable)
R.O.B (unlockable)
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Stafy
Animal Crosser
Captain Rainbow
Fox
Falco (unlockable)
Olimar
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow (unlockable)
Pikachu
Jigglypuff (unlockable)
Mewtwo (unlockable)
5th gen Pokemon
Pokemon Trainer (Charmander, 3rd gen, Lucario)
Ness
Lucas (unlockable)
Marth
Ike (unlockable)
Isaac
Snake (unlockable)
Sonic (unlockable)
Megaman (unlockable)
Geno (unlockable)

 

[GamenerdAdvance]

When he spins on a big Goomba twice, he kills it, when he spins on weak foes, he kills it, when he spins on Bowser when his tail is on fire the he spins in his shell then when Mario spins he damage Bowser. So... have you even played Galaxy's before?

But it's primary function is to flip things over, spin things around, etc., akin to Mario's cape in Smash.

Honestly, would any of you CARE if they replaced the cape with s near-identical attack that reps a recent game?

 

[Pieman0920]

Just because I feel like doing this for some reason~ (Comments in red.)

My roster:

Mario
Luigi (unlockable)
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr. (unlockable) I'd think that we would have a new Mario before a new Bowser, so I'm under the impresion that we'll get Paper Mario before Bowser Jr. (And I'm fully aware that Bowser Jr. isn't really Bowser, but he's still pretty much is)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (unlockable) Why is he locked? Why is K.Rool down there not locked?
King K. Rool Eww. [Insert rant about how K.Rool should never get in/Dixie is more likely.]
Yoshi
Wario (unlockable) ...Why unlockable?
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link (unlockable)
Vaati (unlockable) I very much doubt Vaati will make it in. He's really not all that important, or remarkable. I'd think Tingle would have the higher chances due to him having many more apperances in Zelda and his own game. Heck, I'd think Midna would have a better chance than Vaati.
Samus
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
Little Mac
Lip (unlockable)
Mr. Game & Watch (unlockable)
R.O.B (unlockable)
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Stafy
Animal Crosser
Captain Rainbow
Fox
Falco (unlockable) Why is Wolf gone? Why did you keep the me clone-tastic Falco?
Olimar
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow (unlockable) *pukes* Man, why do people even consider this guy? Sure he was plausible back when Goroh was an AT, but not now. This character has no moves and isn't the mian bad guy, while Goroh has actual moveset pottential, and has been there since the start.
Pikachu
Jigglypuff (unlockable)
Mewtwo (unlockable) He's not coming back. Its a step in the wrong direction. He was kicked out last time for Jigglypuff, not Lucario, so that's another problem, since you have Lucario as one of PT's pokemon
5th gen Pokemon Also this is kind of annoying, since you just put a random place holder here, instead of a real character. What is worse though is that since 3rd gen is out, you should be able to think of one.
Pokemon Trainer (Charmander, 3rd gen, Lucario) And this is even worse. Not only do you get rid of all three of the established Pokemon, but you add in Lucario there, and put another place holder instead of actually thinking it through yourself
Ness
Lucas (unlockable)
Marth
Ike (unlockable) This kind of applies to Ness through Ike here, but what exactly were you thinking by switching the lock positions?
Isaac
Snake (unlockable)
Sonic (unlockable)
Megaman (unlockable)
Geno (unlockable) There are literally hundreds of better SE characters than him to use. Neither Nintendo or SE care about this puppet as seen in their recent cross over games where Geno was no where to be found.

Overall, a bit too many characters, and some strange choices. >_>

 

[Davy Jones]

The only move mario's should be replaced is hus useless FLUDD

 

[SmashBrosMike]

These are how many third party characters I can think of on who can appear for SSB4.


Megaman
Bomberman
Rayman
Ryu
Sora
Geno
Pac-Man
Any Soulcalibour character
Cloud I think
and any character that is third party

 

[GamenerdAdvance]

There's nothing wrong with placeholders in rosters. For example, it is basically definate that if Fire Emblem and Pokémon get newcomers (and they probably will) then they'll be from games that are not currently released. Why guess what Pokémon will take the newcomer spot when we practically know for a fact that it'll be a 5th/6th gen Pokémon?

 

[SmashBrosMike]

hey would anyone like a Paper Mario stage.

I know one what about Toad Town.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

hey would anyone like a Paper Mario stage.

I know one what about Toad Town.

I'd rather have Glitz Pit. Rawk Hawk FTW!

 

[Davy Jones]

I personally whould rather choose a paper mario character. I mean, If we have Link and Toon Link, we should have Mario and Paper Mario!

 

[Linkshot]

I think Paper Mario should be its own series. It could have Paper Mario, Rawk Hawk, and Dimentio.

I was going to say something else, but I forgot it while reading all of the new posts.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I think Paper Mario should be its own series. It could have Paper Mario, Rawk Hawk, and Dimentio.

I was going to say something else, but I forgot it while reading all of the new posts.

I'd actually rather have Rawk Hawk and Dimentio with no Paper Mario.

But I know that would never happen.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'll go ahead and answer these questions:

1). What new franchises will be represented?
Can't say for certain, but I would like to see Golden Sun, Animal Crossing, Panel de Pon, Megaman, and Crash Bandicoot.
2). What expansions of existing franchises will occur?
I think every series save for Zelda, Kirby, Sonic, Metal Gear, Ice Climber, and Gyromite will have increased expansions, save for maybe Kid Icarus.
3). Which one to three characters should be cut?
If I had to cut anyone, it would be Wolf who would be a costume for Fox.
4). Which character deserves to be de-cloned the most?
Ganondorf, Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas to an extent.
5). What new features should be added?
Tag battle, Board the Platforms, Trophy Catch, and personal Break the Targets
6). Who're YOUR top three most wanted character choices?
Tom Nook, Mewtwo, and Krystal
7). Who would you rather have be the director?
I'm not sure. I'm iffy on Sakurai after some of the mistakes made in Brawl. I think it should be someone familiar with 2D fighting games who can balance competition and casual play.

I personally whould rather choose a paper mario character. I mean, If we have Link and Toon Link, we should have Mario and Paper Mario!

Paper Mario is not a main part of the series like Toon Link is for the Zelda series.

 

[Linkshot]

Well, casual gamers tend to be very unaware of what they're playing. If it gets turned completely competitive, the casual players will, in turn, become competitive. This isn't the mentality Sakurai uses. He's probably well aware that they can turn competitive, so he does everything he can to STOP them from seeing any competitive value.

 

[PowerBomb]

Well, casual gamers tend to be very unaware of what they're playing. If it gets turned completely competitive, the casual players will, in turn, become competitive. This isn't the mentality Sakurai uses. He's probably well aware that they can turn competitive, so he does everything he can to STOP them from seeing any competitive value.

What I would love to know, is why does Sakurai have a grudge against competitive players?

 

[chansen]

That's largely due to the fact that Sakurai isn't actually trying to make the game better by any means. He just wants more people to play it. Being that scubs largely outnumber the amount of people that take this game(s) seriously, I think that his appeal to them is much more important than his appeal to us.

Example: Snake.

^This^

10char

 

[Linkshot]

He strongly believes that no fun comes out of losing when you try to win. He must be a self-centered sore loser.

 

[Kraryo]

What I would love to know, is why does Sakurai have a grudge against competitive players?

Because Sakurai is an anti-competetive man. Just be glad that he kept the option to turn off items and didn't turn it into Mario Party or Mario Kart.

 

[chansen]

^This Also^

10 char.

 

[Linkshot]

The competitive scene would be AllBrawl if items had to stay on. Sakurai can't win against us!

 

[Lord Viper]

He strongly believes that no fun comes out of losing when you try to win.

Well, that is the rule for just about all the games, you play for fun, if you play to win, your just basicly wasting your life and you could do so much more.

He must be a self-centered sore loser.

Your talking about a guy that plays three controlers at once, make it seem like three people are playing and not scurbly playing... I think he's more competive then anyone will ever be.