Official Olimar Stage Discussion

[Denti]

idk, i've gottin it off when i play it there. but regardless are we disscussing ps2? cuz i'd like to talk about the other transformations as well. like the ice one, XD "dacus becomes reality?" lolz

edit: so okay, there isn't a 100% chance of the stuff on ps2 working. but thing is if you know all the tricks and you can sneak one of them on your opponent it means everything. I'm just thinking outside the box when i play hilt. that's how my olimar works. it's a good thing we learn and experiment on this stage because who knows what it actually holds in store.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

^^

You weren't around back then, haha. I use to be the guy that obsessed over random tricks and amazing results with high risk, back in the day. I've changed a bit and started looking more at the solid statistics, especially when it comes to stages, and tried to pay less attention to the gimmicks and more towards solid advantages/disadvantages we have.

See? lol. That's from back when I was testing out PS2 and playing it as much as possible to see how it would work for us. So don't think I don't know what you're talking about, haha. I flipped the **** out when I first found out about usmash to uair to uair being a kill at anything over 10%, even if it wasn't a combo. But then I tried it out in tournament, money matches, and lots and lots of friendlies and realized it wasn't gonna go anywhere.

But yes, landing an up air after a double jump (preferably if you connect with the beginning of the uair) brings incredible kills, haha. It puts you at a terribly disadvantageous position, sadly. It's better to just camp the bottom of the wind phase on the ground, knocking the opponent into the air to stall out until it switches, haha.

But yeah we can move to PS2!

Ice phase is okay, except you can't pivot grab. Sliding charging purple fsmashes are so amazing though lol. All in all it's a bad phase for us since we have slightly worse ground control with our traction decreasing.

Electric phase is okay, you have to control the center. The problem is, Olimar needs more area to move around with to control space, and he's kind of limited. If you grab the opponent while you're on the conveyor (doesn't matter if they are or not) backthrow combos into uair. But yeah, try to keep the center ground.

Ground phase is all around good, keep in mind the wall doesn't work for wall combos due to its awkward angle. The slanted part is great though for reasons we all know.

 

[Denti]

well okay, i really do see your argument about tricks and what not. what i think honestly needs more focus is pikmin type. but that's not ment for this thread XD

ice stage - this stage you can charge F smash and get the slide effect of moving forward while initiating a charge. you can also up smash and down smash the same way. don't slide fast on this stage, your pikmin will dysynch(spelling?). also probably camping the side of the stage that isn't slippery is a good idea for characters that must approach because their spacing will be messed up by the ice.

wind stage - the effect of low gravity effects the entire course, so you can jump off the stage with the same effect. if you stay on the ground, you wont be effect by the wind. characters who must arial approach might have a hard time with this stage.

electric - you can either camp the middle hard or F smash and or grab while being on the treadmill to increase it's range. both ar decent options, just don't screw yourself over.

ground - either you'll both be on opposite sides camping hard or you'll both be at mid range and close range combat. this can be really good for oli depending on the MU.

characters i'd take here: ICs and falco.

IC - this stage's transformations definitely destroy ICs blizzard approach, their spacing and their CG. maybe our best CP against them.

falco - flaco is all about lazer camp and spacing/mindgaming his close combat in this MU. he can't do either well on these transformations.

characters i am thinking about taking here: marth and diddy kong.

marth - his spacing will be demolished. who knows how much that will ruin his game in this MU until we test it.

diddy kong - he will be forced to not rely on bananas for 3 of the transformations. too good.

input?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I could see taking ICs here, actually. Falco I'm not sure about. Marth I'm probably going to try out, actually. That's an interesting idea. With as hard as it is to keep ground control on this stage, I don't want to deal with bananas, lol.

Snake has a hard time on this stage though and I think we could take advantage of him not being able to keep ground control.

 

[Denti]

this stage smells like IC ****.

as for the snake MU i can see that too, but his f tilt is too good. i think snakes could space this to their adv honestly. but when snake isn't in control on this stage i could believe he would be very out of control. so i'll test this out too.

 

[dahighii]

My oh my, how many things I'm learning. I never thought about stages much until recently when I started reading things on here, my old thought was "Take everyone to FD except Falco"

Anyways, what are the best kill options here? Low ceiling, close sides?

 

[Denti]

My oh my, how many things I'm learning. I never thought about stages much until recently when I started reading things on here, my old thought was "Take everyone to FD except Falco"

Anyways, what are the best kill options here? Low ceiling, close sides?

honestly if you want my opinion i think olimar is one of the most stage oriented characters. try new stages on new MU :D you might see a huge difference.

as for the ps2 kill zone, i think it's the same as ps1. i'm not sure. hilt? you know random **** XD

 

[DtJ Hilt]

honestly if you want my opinion i think olimar is one of the most stage oriented characters. try new stages on new MU :D you might see a huge difference.

You're more right than you know lol. Stages are more important than anything in Olimar's matchups, and you'll oftentimes have to switch your playstyle completely between two stages. And it's not like most characters where you can have two or three solid counterpicks that you use against all of the characters except one or two. You have to get use to each and every stage legal and know how to take advantage of them all. I also think that Olimar plays more off of his opponents weaknesses on the stage than he does on his own strengths on the stage, if that makes sense. He's good at exploiting flaws between his opponent and the stage they're on.

Also snake's ftilt will be a problem everywhere, haha. He doesn't really get a benefit to it on the stage. He would have a harder time ftilting us on the ice phase. Conveyor belt phase would be a problem, though. Wind wouldn't be bad for us as long as we stay out of the air. Keeping him above us though, we can ruin him. And ground, you'll just need to focus on not letting him corner you in a tight spot. Not that it's a bad stage for snake, but it's something I'll probably be trying out.

As for Ceiling/Blastzones, I'm not sure. I know them for the neutrals and the neutral/counterpicks but not PS2.

Also, what do you mean about pikmin types?

 

[Denti]

What i meant by pikmin type being important is idk if you think and feel the same way but i change my approaches, my spacing, my attacks, and strategies all according to my pikmin line always. mastering what each pikmin is good for changes everything and each pikmin has special qualities that help you. like for instance, i beat a rob today because i caught his nair with a fire f smash, normally his nair beats my smashes but the fire pikmin goes strait threw it's fire element and hit him with a fire f smash our greatest f smash. tiny stuff like that, i really notice pikmin use in the olimar ditto. yellow f smashes range/priority wrecks, purple toss gives approach, white makes them receive 40% or they give you an opening by removing it, the fire is a good pusher off the stage, and a blue can really throw people around. things like that..

edit: as for you saying about olimar playing off opponents weakness i seriously agree with that. that's all my olimar does, because i play to not get hit because if you can't get hit you can't lose. when they try to hit my olimar he generally takes adv on their weakness right there. having a projectile/big grab range/super armor reversal/throw combos helps this logic. LOL

 

[Sky Pirate]

I don't have a lot to say about this stage, TBH. Umm...

Ice Phase - Pikmin desync a lot. Fought a ZSS here and got something like 1/10 attacks off while she chased me around. Hate this phase.

Electric Phase - Fsmash seems quite good while camping the center. Can't move around a lot. Hate this phase.

Flying Phase - Grounded UpB doesn't seem as bad here. Can't jump here without taking a massive risk. Hate this phase.

Ground Phase - Fun fun, camping on either side. Uair and Usmash on the right, Usmash, grab, and pikmin toss on the left. Either way, they have to climb a hill to get to you. Love this phase.

Overall - **** Pit on this stage. He's so stupid. D:


BTW. I wasn't around for the Pictochat discussion, but I don't remember seeing this little tidbit mentioned. If the Boat phase is drawn over you and you Usmash your pikmin up onto it, they're still in your control zone and can still be used for attacks.
If this has been already mentioned, ignore this.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Overall - **** Pit on this stage. He's so stupid. D:

^This, sooooooo much! I'll get you mayling

BTW. I wasn't around for the Pictochat discussion, but I don't remember seeing this little tidbit mentioned. If the Boat phase is drawn over you and you Usmash your pikmin up onto it, they're still in your control zone and can still be used for attacks.
If this has been already mentioned, ignore this.

Definitely going to test around with this :D

 

[Sky Pirate]

Does anybody else have something to say about this stage?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Wow, I missed my color tags a lot in this discussion .-.

It's not our worst stage but is pretty bad. I think all of our "worst stages" are all matchup dependent. I don't mind fighting a character such as snake on here, but hate fighting pikachu (it's pretty bad)

Just a quick overview of my opinions of matchups on the stage:

Meta Knight: Not too terrible, not nearly as bad as frigate/rc/brinstar. There's several other stages you would worry about to where you should never ever see a mk cp you here

Snake: I don't mind this stage against snake at all. In fact some of the stages help in keeping him out. If we keep the center of the conveyor phase, he isn't able to outcamp us.

Diddy: Again, not so bad.
Falco: Isn't a good stage for Falco, don't worry about this.
Ice Climbers: Same. Really not good for IC in this matchup on this stage.
Marth: Marth controls space too well and, juggles us in the air, and gets in on us too easily to make this stage good for us. I wouldn't want to face a marth here.
Wario: I dread the day Warios reallize they should CP us here.

DDD: This could actually be really good for us against DDD O_o
Pikachu: If the Pikachu is one that you know loves PS2, and you predict he would take you here, I would actually ban the stage against him. It might be worse than any other stage Pikachu would counterpick us to.
Lucario: ..huh. I really don't know what to say about this one. Never fought Lucario on this stage. But my instinct says it wouldn't look good.
GW: This stage is incredible for GW, but ban RC regardless. Sliding smashes, him being able to keep us out of the center of the conveyors, covering almost the entire right section of the ground phase with his smashes and turtle, destroying us in the wind phase, GW takes up too much space for us to have room to play normally with.

Pit: BAN THIS ****IN STAGE

alright, not gonna do the other characters, since I don't know enough about how they do on the stage. I wouldn't like Rob on it though, I know that much.

We can move on in a few days.

 

[Denti]

Could we do green greens next? I'm not sure if olimar can use this stage well in MUs or not. I haven't fooled around with it enough to find out.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

LOL

Try it, Denti. It's hilariously broken.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright then. Green Greens. Discuss.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Still no massive Delfino or Japes writeup, Hilt? :3

I don't get to play this stage in my region, so I can't contribute outside of the well-known gimmicks like "stick pikmin to the blocks" and "fsmash the mines". D:

 

[Denti]

honestly, the only MUs i want a new CP for are MK, marth, and falco. How does this stage for olimar VS them?

 

[Tin Man]

i believe green greens has a low ceiling, that may help, its easy to stay in the center with the blocks blocking the way, so taking control of the center is most likely key, and the apples that fall must be in your control.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

dont pick green greens against top MK's....

*MLG Flashback*

 

[Sky Pirate]

Awah, really? I was always told it was our best Metaknight CP. 0_o

If I may ask, why do you say that?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I'll try to do a Green Greens writeup sometime tomorrow afternoon after I get some sleep or something

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Double Poooooost!

Alright, so about this stage. The obvious benefit is the low ceiling and how it can give us much early kills. The blocks and placement of the separate platforms are actually incredible for us, though, for several reasons.

The blocks give us amazing kill setups. fsmash, dsmash, and sometimes throws can hit the opponent into the blocks and send them right back to us, allowing for a up/down smash follow up. It also allows us to trap our opponent between blocks and a constant barrage of fsmashes, and if there are bomb blocks behind them, could definitely be a problem for the opponent.

You're going to want to control the center ground. The platform setup is so incredible, that the opponent shouldn't be able to land against you when coming from the outside. It's so closed in of an area that grab/fsmash covers too much distance for them to handle. You're just going to want to focus on controlling the center platform and making it as difficult as hell for them to get in.

I'll say more later, probably.

 

[Tin Man]

I can;t wait to try out the MLG ruleset at my tourney, I'm gonna need practice on this stage before hand and then spill the beans on what I learned about it later.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

i practiced on green greens a lot before mlg....

doesnt help you vs SFL PR ******s who know how to play off the timer correctly

 

[-Vocal-]

Lot's of great info in my hiatus surrounding end-of-the-college-year stuff, but the last reply here was five days ago....? Since you guys just discussed one broken stage, how about another: Japes? I know it's supposedly great for Olimar but I really don't have any experience there, so now I'm looking for the inside scoop.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

but then people will stop cp'ing me to it for real this time

 

[-Vocal-]

but then people will stop cp'ing me to it for real this time

Lol I'm sure you'll live main reason I suggested is because this board has been moving like a snail recently...I thought I was going to have to catch up on a lot after being away for two weeks, but such was not the case :/

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Regardless, it would be better to discuss all of the legal stages (and a few other things I'd like to discuss/organize) before moving on to stages that are usually banned, like Japes. We still have Norfair and Delfino to take care of, Rainbow Cruise if we feel like it, though most of what we've discussed in the past about RC should still apply. However, going over who we should ban the stage against, who we could possible counterpick to it, etc, would be good to cover.

On another note, really starting to love Castle Seige.

If there's really this little to say about Green Greens, I guess we can move on to like Norfair or something, since it's legal at MLG (I hate Norfair...)

 

[Sky Pirate]

Isn't Japes legal more often than Greens?

And who should we avoid bringing to Greens?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Green Greens is legal at MLG.

Stay away from Snake on Green Greens at all costs. GW is really good on GGs but we kind of give him a hard time on it still. If GW can't keep the center ground, it's difficult for him to get into the middle area against Olimar on this stage. But if he gets in, ohhh ****.

Oh and Luigi, stay the hell away from Luigi here.

 

[Pete278]

I.e. stay away from anyone who kills vertically.

Alot of characters will try to camp the sides, but its easy enough for Olimar to get through because we can get rid of the bombs with smashes, and open up the horizontal approach, so that's not as much of a worry as it would be with other characters. Camping the sides is risky, due to the extreme closeness of the blast zones, and the fact Olimar can't recover for a ****, so I try to minimize the amount of time I'm on the sides, though that should probably be obvious.

...I just restated all the basic info about the stage, didn't I? ;_;

 

[Sky Pirate]

Okay, so stay away from vertical killers.
This is obviously a good stage for us and we should pick it often, but who should we specifically aim to pick this against?
If that doesn't make any sense, please ask me to clarify.

 

[Tin Man]

After my tourney, I realized, on green greens, MK can upB the blocks with explosives, not get hurt by them, and kill at very ow percents . Don't take MK here, or at least avoid the blocks.

Lol I'm sure you'll live main reason I suggested is because this board has been moving like a snail recently...I thought I was going to have to catch up on a lot after being away for two weeks, but such was not the case :/

yeah, I can be away here for 2 weeks and barely miss anything, but on the rob boards, I leave for 2 weeks, and its like a quarter of the year passed o.O

 

[KingKirb]

what do you mean by "strike against"?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

In a tournament set, the first stage that you play on is chosen between a list of "Neutral Stages". The way you determine which neutral stage you play on for the first game, you and your opponent take turns "striking" stages off of a list that is usually five, seven, or nine stages in number.

The process goes as follows.

Let's say that the neutral stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, and Lylat Cruise. I'm facing a Diddy Kong and using Olimar.

I don't want to fight Diddy on FD, so I strike it first.
The Diddy then decides he doesn't want to play on Lylat Cruise since it's a bad stage for his character, so he strikes it.
I then strike Smashville, since it's also really good for Diddy
The Diddy then strikes off Yoshi's Island, leaving battlefield, which will be the stage used for the first game of the set.

This process is known as "Stage Striking" and is only used for the first game of a "Best of Three" set. In the "Strike Against" section for each stage, I list the characters that you are advised to strike the stage against.

 

[Sky Pirate]

It has been almost two weeks since any actual discussion about the stage has taken place.
What info do we still need before we can move on?

 

[Sky Pirate]

I just noticed that Sonic isn't listed in the strike and ban categories for Yoshi's Island (Brawl).
Isn't that kind of important to know?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

oh god yes fixing that now

 

[Jiom]

When are we starting a new stage?