Official Metaknight Discussion

[Orion*]

Like, let's discuss:
1) How to defeat an aggro MK.
2) How to defeat a fairly defensive MK.
3) How to defeat a MK that shows clear intent on timing you out without engaging in tactics that you could call a TO over for. (IDC, stalling, etc.)
4) How to fight an MK offstage in both the offensive and defensive position.
5) And maybe more... makes no sense in beating a dead horse... let's beat the broken horse.

1) pick any S-A tier character and let them approach you. brawl sucks bro

2) pick diddy snake falco or ics and have more patience than the metaknight.

3) the same strat except if you get a percent lead they are forced to approach.

4) you dont fight mk offstage, the same way you dont fight jiggs in melee

5) thats like tbagging in halo

 

[Orion*]

Mk has a cape and mask.

Why exactly does this thread exist in the brawl TACTICAL discussion thread?

it should be in general since we're allowing everything from items to b+ and project m

 

[highfive]

it should be in general since we're allowing everything from items to b+ and project m

I thought the same. Please use the edit button. Although postcount+1 is good.

 

[CRASHiC]

1) pick any S-A tier character and let them approach you. brawl sucks bro

Hmm no. That won't work at all. In fact, that's how you get rapped by them if your DDD, because once you do that they will easily take the lead. Letting them approach as DDD in most situations is setting yourself up for **** because of how well Metaknight can play the game of space and poke and mixup. Metaknight is basically an Adon that can fly and has unbeatable priority.

 

[Orion*]

if i actually cared about my post count it would be a lot higher.

i rarely post on SWF except occasionally on the NJ/NY regional threads to say high to my buddies<3

i prefer calling people to talk to them

 

[Orion*]

Hmm no. That won't work at all. In fact, that's how you get rapped by them if your DDD, because once you do that they will easily take the lead. Letting them approach as DDD in most situations is setting yourself up for **** because of how well Metaknight can play the game of space and poke and mixup. Metaknight is basically an Adon that can fly and has unbeatable priority.

Dedede isnt S/A tier rofl. hes soooo limited and overrated its kind of sad. atomsk/co18 is just amazing

but just to point out, D3s pivot grab is Broken. play atomsks poke and run away D3 with metaknight if he actually has the patience to camp for once >_>. its pretty gay

edIt: my gf asked me to post this

[19:45] **aim censored**: ie the rebuttle would be "Orion you're ******** because MK is not the mascot to brawl OR vbrawl, so to get him banned has no such relation to chiwawas. The point is that MK is a fr advanced pcharacter that pisses too many people the **** off"

 

[highfive]

Metaknight is basically a bottle of steroids that can fly and has unbeatable priority.

Fixed.

MK does have some ******** moves but does take a bit of practice to take full advantage of. Except for Ally. Ally doesn't count.

 

[CRASHiC]

We have a sub forum where all hack discussion is suppose to go. No Brawl hacks are suppose to be discussed outside of that specific area and social rooms and threads. Project M has no relation to this thread at all other than your private enthusiasm for the project that does nothing but add false apprenances of depth to the game. Regardless of how I feel about the project, this is NOT the place to discuss this. This is a discussion upon the legality of Metaknight and our rule sets, a hack is a separate game and should not be discussed here.

 

[Overswarm]

Track.

Let's get on it.

 

[highfive]

Right! Let's all get on the Overswarm choo choo!

I feel that Meta Knight is not over poisoning the meta game since if a newly developed AT is tested against a highly skilled Meta Knight player and works perfectly then the potency of the AT would be greater than if it tested against a Ganondorf player.

 

[Halle]

Dedede isnt S/A tier rofl. hes soooo limited and overrated its kind of sad. atomsk/co18 is just amazing

but just to point out, D3s pivot grab is Broken. play atomsks poke and run away D3 with metaknight if he actually has the patience to camp for once >_>. its pretty gay

edIt: my gf asked me to post this

[19:45] **aim censored**: ie the rebuttle would be "Orion you're ******** because MK is not the mascot to brawl OR vbrawl, so to get him banned has no such relation to chiwawas. The point is that MK is a fr advanced pcharacter that pisses too many people the **** off"

I did not ask you to post that.... I was calling you ********

 

[RDK]

Track.

Let's get on it.

I'm interested in what OS thinks of the ban criteria, and how in the world MK fits it in any way, shape, or form:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9394647&postcount=949

 

[Orion*]

Track.

Let's get on it.

i am on track, the same way jack keiser talks about items to balance the game, you should be open to my idea about using hacked brawl to balance metaknight.

infact coming from you thats almost insulting, if i was you i would make a thread responding to this thread showing how wrong you are. but i am going to try to contribute

should we consider Bbrawl, brawl+/- or should we wait on project m to balance this game?

edit: omg why did my gf make a swf account

 

[MarKO X]

Right! Let's all get on the Overswarm choo choo!

I feel that Meta Knight is not over poisoning the meta game since if a newly developed AT is tested against a highly skilled Meta Knight player and works perfectly then the potency of the AT would be greater than tested against a Ganondorf player.

HOW MANY TIMES IS GOING TO BE REPEATED? madmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmad

Its like, this hasn't happened. There has been nothing that can even remotely conclude that there is some AT in the game that will counter MK. In fact, it's been the complete opposite. MK seems to have every AT or game changing tactic in the book right now.

So plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz stop saying that.

 

[Orion*]

I did not ask you to post that.... I was calling you ********

im no ******<3

i just think project m is the best thing for this game and that we should stop talking about items

 

[MarKO X]

I'm interested in what OS thinks of the ban criteria, and how in the world MK fits it in any way, shape, or form:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9394647&postcount=949

except, there are a number of things banned in Brawl that do not fit that criteria...

 

[RDK]

Some items are clearly more random than others. Let's take a look at a Bob-Omb, for example. These little *******s fall from the sky, and explode if they hit you. Now this, as opposed to a Beam Sword, which falls to the ground and waits there until someone picks it up. Once someone picks it up, the opponent can clearly see when it is going to be used.

Correct, but that's just [bad] icing on the cake. I was talking about the fundamental random properties of items, in that they spawn wherever the game feels like putting them.

Think of the repercussions of this on top-level tournament play. Matches are often won by a hairsbreadth. One mistake and it's over. IMO, items would simply aggravate an already existing problem.

What? So you're saying that each and every item is at the same level of "brokeness?" Well they obviously spawn randomly, if that's what your talking about then yes, of course they give a random advantage. I assumed that no one was disputing this and that you were instead talking about the actual advantage that each item gave to the person using it once they picked it up.

The items in and of themselves obviously aren't a problem, as we can choose which ones to turn on and off. In all honesty I wouldn't have a problem with items if you could control the spawns.

You're a smart guy, I think you should be able to figure out that not every item has the same amount of power, and therefore the more powerful/rewarding it is, the more likely it will be banned.

I understand what you were trying to say now; I thought you were referring to characters when you said "power", but now I see you meant item power.

Edit: a controlled experiment a la ISP may be of use in neutralizing MK's dominance in a tournament setting (instead of banning planking, we can experiment with certain items on low). But tests need to be done, and I would be interested in such tests.

except, there are a number of things banned in Brawl that do not fit that criteria...

Why do people feel the need to post one-liners?

Nobody cares about your post count. This is not a chat room.

Put content in your posts.

From here on out I won't be responding to one-liners, and I suggest all other intelligent people do the same.

 

[Orion*]

except, there are a number of things banned in Brawl that do not fit that criteria...

this thread is about mk

 

[Kuraudo]

[EDIT]

nvm, I forgot to refresh when I got back. LMAO Ahh, showers.

 

[Halle]

people need to get the major drama stick pulled out of their ***** and play the game they claim to love the way it was made

 

[Kuraudo]

i am on track, the same way jack keiser talks about items to balance the game, you should be open to my idea about using hacked brawl to balance metaknight.

infact coming from you thats almost insulting, if i was you i would make a thread responding to this thread showing how wrong you are. but i am going to try to contribute

should we consider Bbrawl, brawl+/- or should we wait on project m to balance this game?

edit: omg why did my gf make a swf account

Not to nitpick, but...

I'm pretty sure we're talking about Meta Knight in standard Brawl here and what to do to solve the issue of him. Not side projects that won't get the hype and fame of Melee/Brawl (IN MY OPINION, not knocking Brawl+ and whatever else, I like playing them)

 

[Chuee]

MK seems to have every AT or game changing tactic in the book right now.

MK doesn't have hardly any useful AT's except IDC, which is banned.

 

[Orion*]

Not to nitpick, but...

I'm pretty sure we're talking about Meta Knight in standard Brawl here and what to do to solve the issue of him. Not side projects that won't get the hype and fame of Melee/Brawl (IN MY OPINION, not knocking Brawl+ and whatever else, I like playing them)

i agree with you but jack keiser has been spouting his garbage for like 2 weeks in completely unrelated threads so if thats his way of spreading pro ban criteria then i should be able to post my own personal views to the relegation of metaknight as long as it is contributing to the wealth and subject of this thread. now if you want to make a pro ban thread, a anti ban thread, a item thread, a brawl + thread, a brawl - thread, a project m thread, a metagame thread statistics thread, ect EACH regarding Specifically to its uses in relation to how to control or in some peoples opinion ban metaknight then i would be completely in agreement and i would only post in my designated area, however right now i am on task and on track and i am following the rules and context of this thread.

 

[MarKO X]

Why do people feel the need to post one-liners?

Nobody cares about your post count. This is not a chat room.

Put content in your posts.

I'm interested in what OS thinks of the ban criteria, and how in the world MK fits it in any way, shape, or form:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9394647&postcount=949

So one liners are garbage, but two-liners are a o k.
Plus, I don't even care about my post count, so you can stop complaining about that sh*t right now.
I just wanted to address a point, and of course, as usual, anti-ban tries to avoid it. (and have been consistently avoiding that point, unless someone can show me otherwise)
You don't have to have a wall of text to make a point. Stop being so anal.

 

[Kuraudo]

@ Orion

XD I thought that you'd use the, "They didn't specifically designate this thread as just for normal Brawl" card.

Well played, but I can respect that.

--

Personally, we need to get this item/other versions of Brawl stuff out of here. What most people really want to talk about is Meta Knight, what to do to ban or keep him, and how he effects the metagame as a whole. In other words, beating the dead horse, realizing it's dead, using a phoenix down on it. Killing it with the same anti-ban dribble, beating the dead horse again, and it's a neverending cycle.

**** I want MK banned. And I don't even have much of a hard time against him...

 

[MarKO X]

MK doesn't have hardly any useful AT's except IDC, which is banned.

IDC (which is banned, but not fully enforceable)
Shuttle Loop DownB cancel
planking
scrooging

maybe not AT per se, but regardless, if there is something someone can do, 7 times out of 10, MK can do it better.

 

[RDK]

You don't have to have a wall of text to make a point.

The problem is that you don't make any point. And the ones you do are garbage and usually filled with emoticons.

 

[Omni]

everyone needs to chill.

mk isn't getting banned. the reason why OS has to work so hard to justify an MK ban is based on the fact that MK fits within the brawl game so well. i assure you no one has ever worked this hard to remove a character from a game.

the majority of the community won't be fooled by OS's appeal to emotions, pr tricks, and obvious extremely bias view point. you guys do realize OS doesn't debate to see a solution. instead he's made up in his mind that his stance is 100% absolute and anything that makes a lick of sense against his case is either ignored or addressed with logical fallacies.

btw im not going to be heavily in this debate. i told OS that my argument and response was my viewpoint on his topic. him and i simply disagree with how the metagame should be approached (or not approached) among other things. the same probably goes for you guys. im not a huge fan of endless back and forth bickering when usually the cause isn't because somebody is "right" or "wrong", but simply a conflict of equally important beliefs and ideals

i encourage you guys to keep debating and work to find a solution rather than to prove a point or "win". the main focus should be to make sure that Brawl continues to be a successful, growing competitive fighting game. good luck in your endeavors

 

[Kuraudo]

I think I'll repeat overswarm here.

Stop criticizing each other's styles and just get to debating. Good or bad points or presentation or not, it's all contribution.

[EDIT]

@ Omni

You're encouraging us to keep debating, and yet you throw in our faces, "MK isn't getting banned," meanwhile slandering Overswarm's view? Like we're supposed to not have an opinion of thinking of being Pro-Ban against Meta Knight?

Quite contradictory if you think that this debate changes nothing. I suggest you re-assess how you present yourself.

 

[Orion*]

^@ kuraudo

if I can do well against every top mk ive played other than m2k (and thats really moreso his playstyle. NEO uses marth and is very aggressive, the same pressure ***** me, it has nothing to do with him necessarily being the best mk) with non mk characters and i Main metaknight. i recently this season beat diem with falco, and took a game off of seibrik with ice climbers (maybe falco? it was 3/5 if i didnt win that game on frigate it was last hit last stock.)

i am an UNACTIVE UNRANKED new jersey player. i really feel like (not everyone) people are just whining.

edit omni go on aim and add meeee. PokeOrion@aol.com

 

[Jack Kieser]

i agree with you but jack keiser has been spouting his garbage for like 2 weeks in completely unrelated threads so if thats his way of spreading pro ban criteria then i should be able to post my own personal views to the relegation of metaknight as long as it is contributing to the wealth and subject of this thread. now if you want to make a pro ban thread, a anti ban thread, a item thread, a brawl + thread, a brawl - thread, a project m thread, a metagame thread statistics thread, ect EACH regarding Specifically to its uses in relation to how to control or in some peoples opinion ban metaknight then i would be completely in agreement and i would only post in my designated area, however right now i am on task and on track and i am following the rules and context of this thread.

Hey dude, let's get one thing straight. Ok, a few things. First of all, I never have, nor will I ever, tout ISP as a fix-all for MK. The reason is that I never intended it to take over mainstream Brawl. Ever. If people want it, they'll want it of their own accord, but I'll stay out of that.

Second, spouting garbage? You can't even type properly. Learn some grammar before you start calling other's posts garbage.

Lastly, if items were to work at all, they'd be because you don't have to hack the game. Did you know that we can use hacking to control item spawns? Yeah. If people wanted to add items to Brawl again, they'd have to do without that little improvement, because hacking will never be mainstream in Brawl; the logistics just cannot work, just like how the logistics to having judges watching every match to control planking would never work. So, yeah, discussing hacks in here will always be off-topic because they will never be mainstream for logistical reasons.

 

[Orion*]

Hey dude, let's get one thing straight. Ok, a few things. First of all, I never have, nor will I ever, tout ISP as a fix-all for MK. The reason is that I never intended it to take over mainstream Brawl. Ever. If people want it, they'll want it of their own accord, but I'll stay out of that.

Second, spouting garbage? You can't even type properly. Learn some grammar before you start calling other's posts garbage.

Lastly, if items were to work at all, they'd be because you don't have to hack the game. Did you know that we can use hacking to control item spawns? Yeah. If people wanted to add items to Brawl again, they'd have to do without that little improvement, because hacking will never be mainstream in Brawl; the logistics just cannot work, just like how the logistics to having judges watching every match to control planking would never work. So, yeah, discussing hacks in here will always be off-topic because they will never be mainstream for logistical reasons.

i type eloquently when i have a college essay or something i need to care about
CONTENT > your witty but useless combacks goodsir

 

[Chuee]

IDC (which is banned, but not fully enforceable)
Shuttle Loop DownB cancel
planking
scrooging

maybe not AT per se, but regardless, if there is something someone can do, 7 times out of 10, MK can do it better.

Scrooging and Planking aren't AT's. Canceling a SL with down-b isn't really one either.

 

[Orion*]

extended dimensional cape isnt really ban worthy or the problem so when people use it i dont really see the issue. who cares

 

[ADHD]

Muahahaaa.

 

[PassWurD]

We have a sub forum where all hack discussion is suppose to go. No Brawl hacks are suppose to be discussed outside of that specific area and social rooms and threads. Project M has no relation to this thread at all other than your private enthusiasm for the project that does nothing but add false apprenances of depth to the game. Regardless of how I feel about the project, this is NOT the place to discuss this. This is a discussion upon the legality of Metaknight and our rule sets, a hack is a separate game and should not be discussed here.

Your sig, it's sexy.

 

[Kuraudo]

Muahahaaa.

....

TRAITOR!!!

x_x

 

[Orion*]

Muahahaaa.

mm your metaknight with falcon, 1$ i ban RC

 

[CRASHiC]

Why do people feel the need to post one-liners?

Nobody cares about your post count. This is not a chat room.

Put content in your posts.

From here on out I won't be responding to one-liners, and I suggest all other intelligent people do the same.

AGAIN, RDK ignores a completely legitament statement simply because it doesn't matchup with his ideals of what should be banned and what shouldn't. We ban PLENTY of things in Smash that do not fit your criteria that you push around as gospel because that criteria comes from a different community, as DMG (anti-ban last time I checked) stated, Each community should build their own criteria for what is and what is not bannable. You are unwilling to see this, which shows your vast lack of understanding of competative games, which I could also bring up you using Sagat in SF4 as an example of your lack of understanding. Sagat's dominance in SF4 is in NO WAY comparable to Metaknight in Brawl. Sagat takes up a relatively small number of top spots when compared to Metaknight, and his percent of use is no where near the ammount of Metaknights. Sagat is NOT comparable to Brawl Metaknight. I can also bring up your vast misunderstanding of basic game design mechanics, as most shown with your feelings about L canceling adding to 'depth' when it reality it is perhaps one of the worst ideas since Ivan Ooze.

 

[EmuKiller]

metaknight sucks he's not even that good my olimar is pro it beats metaknight everytime metaknight just has tornado or should i call it WHOREnado yeah that's how gay metaknight is ban him but yeah he's not that good i just don't like his face.

discuss.

AGAIN, RDK ignores a completely legitament statement simply because it doesn't matchup with his ideals of what should be banned and what shouldn't. We ban PLENTY of things in Smash that do not fit your criteria that you push around as gospel because that criteria comes from a different community, as DMG (anti-ban last time I checked) stated, Each community should build their own criteria for what is and what is not bannable. You are unwilling to see this, which shows your vast lack of understanding of competative games, which I could also bring up you using Sagat in SF4 as an example of your lack of understanding. Sagat's dominance in SF4 is in NO WAY comparable to Metaknight in Brawl. Sagat takes up a relatively small number of top spots when compared to Metaknight, and his percent of use is no where near the ammount of Metaknights. Sagat is NOT comparable to Brawl Metaknight. I can also bring up your vast misunderstanding of basic game design mechanics, as most shown with your feelings about L canceling adding to 'depth' when it reality it is perhaps one of the worst ideas since Ivan Ooze.

PS: Eureka Seven wasn't even that great of a show.

PPS: Afro type ladies leaning on soundboards aren't even that intriguing.

everyone needs to chill.

mk isn't getting banned. the reason why OS has to work so hard to justify an MK ban is based on the fact that MK fits within the brawl game so well. i assure you no one has ever worked this hard to remove a character from a game.

the majority of the community won't be fooled by OS's appeal to emotions, pr tricks, and obvious extremely bias view point. you guys do realize OS doesn't debate to see a solution. instead he's made up in his mind that his stance is 100% absolute and anything that makes a lick of sense against his case is either ignored or addressed with logical fallacies.

btw im not going to be heavily in this debate. i told OS that my argument and response was my viewpoint on his topic. him and i simply disagree with how the metagame should be approached (or not approached) among other things. the same probably goes for you guys. im not a huge fan of endless back and forth bickering when usually the cause isn't because somebody is "right" or "wrong", but simply a conflict of equally important beliefs and ideals

i encourage you guys to keep debating and work to find a solution rather than to prove a point or "win". the main focus should be to make sure that Brawl continues to be a successful, growing competitive fighting game. good luck in your endeavors

Overswarm is a pro omni you're not even on the MD/VA rankings he's better than you so just chill and accept the fact that his opinion matters more because he's better in his respective region. Maybe if you were MEEP I would listen to you but guess what Meep hates metaknight too so it all works out ban mk.

Guys. Just tell me. HOW DO I BEAT TORNADO!?

No answer? Yep. That's what I thought. BAN MK!!!!