Official Metaknight Discussion

[HeroMystic]

Premium members are able to request having their name changed.

I understand the feeling though.

 

[BSP]

Premium Membership lets you change your name, but IDK how fast.

I think he meant Meta Knight when he said "problem". I mean, look at us, we're arguing back and forth over a character, and it will take a while to reach an agreement.

 

[Justblaze647]

I think the problem is that OUR arguing doesn't really solve anything, since its up to the SBR to decide if MK floats or sinks. This is just here for their (and by their, I mean OS's) amusement.

Edit: I would never change my name.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think the problem is that OUR arguing doesn't really solve anything, since its up to the TO's to decide if MK floats or sinks. This is just here for their (and by their, I mean OS's) amusement.

Edit: I would never change my name.

Fix'd
=D =D

 

[GeneralWoodman]

i think overswarm is just mixing dashing and small pivots. i can small pivot with perfect accuracy.
i can do it fast enough so that its like wavedashing. xd and its not legit without the dust

 

[Justblaze647]

Fix'd
=D =D

Yes well this is assuming that TO's abroad have the gall to act independently of the SBR's decision (or indecisiveness). Which brings up the question of why do we need smash dictators if TO's can decide on their own what's best for their individual tourney...

hmmm...

 

[D. Disciple]

I actually feel a little down after watching some of the Melee vids of the old days (2006-2007 MLG commentary matches) and a couple of the montages for the legends of yesterday (Ken, Azen, M2K in his prime, etc.), then coming in here to remind myself of just what Smash has boiled down to: bickering about a problem that Sakurai himself intended to troll us all with from the beginning in March of 2008. I miss the good ol' having pride and talking smack days, with a balanced roster among the top characters and a player's smarts/tech skill most often determining the winner. It was a great time.

Melee is still very much alive, but I don't get the same vibe from it or the community in general anymore. T.T

/I apologize for the random bit of reminiscence everyone, it just hit me like a ton of bricks while I was reading through here.

You're not the only one, I do miss those days. We need to eventually find a way to bring back peace into the smash community.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yes well this is assuming that TO's abroad have the gall to act independently of the SBR's decision (or indecisiveness). Which brings up the question of why do we need smash dictators if TO's can decide on their own what's best for their individual tourney...

hmmm...

They need to grow some balls.

 

[BSP]

Yes well this is assuming that TO's abroad have the gall to act independently of the SBR's decision (or indecisiveness). Which brings up the question of why do we need smash dictators if TO's can decide on their own what's best for their individual tourney...

hmmm...

Well, the SBR just recommends what they think is the best ruleset for competition. No one has to follow it, but they are right as far as I'm concerned.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeE9Gh4EPA
watch closely at 0:43-0:46
i think this is his AT

 

[SmashConnoisseur]

Hate to say it but this guy is is preeetty hard to kill.

 

[cutter]

I said I would post my thoughts about this in an earlier post I made on this thread, so here we go. Time to throw my hat into the ring.

I was originally strongly anti-ban back during the fourth community vote. I still lean towards the anti-ban side, but I have now become officially neutral again regarding the banning of MK. I read through the 4000+ post thread (pretty easy to do actually when a good deal of the posts are one-liners or just post some random gif/jpeg) and I've read through the constant circular debating going on between each side.

Both RedHalberd and Pierce7d bring up something that has really intrigued me and made my gears turn regarding MK and the state of Brawl. I think we can all agree that we can name at least one person who has quit Brawl recently due to whatever reason pertaining towards their distaste of the game. There's no need to elaborate or make a massive wall of text to get the point across: Brawl is slowly, but surely declining in terms of tournament attendance. The game is starting to show signs of peaking. I should know first hand, considering I took a hiatus from the game for a few months, and my region of Oregon really doesn't have that much going for it in terms of the game. The Melee community here is small, but it's there (I say hi to Zodiac and Grunt!). I haven't seen much of the Brawl community during my hiatus, but it seems like after G.O. 2.0 (which was like our biggest regional that happened during my break), there hasn't been much in terms of growth.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but I'm looking at other regions across the entire Smash community itself, and a correlation appears to be developing: an increasing number of people are getting fed up with Brawl (a good deal of it pertaining to Metaknight combined with the gameplay) and are quitting. How else do you explain the HUGE driving force behind hacking Brawl and releasing several different Brawl hacks? (Brawl+, Brawl-, Balanced Brawl, and now Project M) I think that should be a clear message of how many people have become so frustrated with normal Brawl that they have taken matters into their own hands.

Right now, the community is in a lose-lose situation. If MK is banned, not everyone is going to follow the ban (i.e. New Jersey) and will continue to hose MK in their tournaments anyway. This will obviously conflict with the regions that do ban MK, and it will only further increase friction in the Smash community. Further problems will almost certainly occur down the road when regionals and especially nationals come about, and you have a regions fighting for if MK should/shouldn't be banned in such future big tournaments.

If MK stays unbanned, the game's popularity and amount of people who play will rot and decay from the inside out. The mid-level of play is the foundation of this game. It's what creates big pots, which allow for bigger tournaments, bigger venues, and general increase in the overall quality and viability of tournaments. Without mid-level play, all of this is no longer possible. The support for the game quickly falls apart, causing the Smash community to either:
A) go back to Melee/64
B) turn to Brawl hacks over vBrawl
C) self-destruct altogether

All of which are not good outcomes. C is obviously the worst-case scenario, but it doesn't take much for a gaming community to give way when the popularity of that game starts to erode.

I am still very torn about this issue, but if I were to vote right now (i.e. not stay neutral), I would vote anti-ban. I'm not strongly anti-ban however. Like I said, I'm in the region of anti-ban to neutral.

Right now, it seems like picking between the lesser of the two evils. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Spelt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeE9Gh4EPA
watch closely at 0:43-0:46
i think this is his AT

just looks like he's crouching and turning around...

 

[AllyKnight]

MK once flew, he airplanked, MK once flew again, he scrooged, mk once flew once and once again, he stalled. BAN MK'S WINGS.

 

[Kuraudo]

If only. lol

 

[GeneralWoodman]

just looks like he's crouching and turning around...

i don't see a crouch, and its a true pivot, a cancel of an initial dash into any move. watch how i use it to out space the marth

 

[Tien2500]

MK once flew, he airplanked, MK once flew again, he scrooged, mk once flew once and once again, he stalled. BAN MK'S WINGS.

From now on MK can only use one midair jump and no glides.

 

[Spelt]

how about we just not let mk use any of his moves.
problem solved.

 

[MKOwnage]

how about we just not let mk use any of his moves.
problem solved.

At the recent tourney I attended.
1.Falco
2.Meta knight
3.Peach.

These were our top three. MK still placed top though. So even if hes not winning he still places high which is starting to bug me.
(I used Luigi at this one.)

 

[Flayl]

Well that makes a bit more sense.

Fair enough.

How could you not get that from what I was saying, lol. Get out.

 

[blackanese]

 

[Vyse]

@Spammers:

Don't spam please.
Post if you've got something meaningful to contribute.
<3 To everyone.

 

[blackanese]

@Spammers:

Don't spam please.
Post if you've got something meaningful to contribute.
<3 To everyone.

alright alright, imma make it up by posting my pointless thoughts ya dig.

Too early to ban mk, give it more time.
Just put a ruling/limit on ledge grabs / scrooging.
Though, however, I would actually like to see him banned for a little while through the smash community just to see what would the placings / results would be like. (even though I doubt it be much difference at all player wise)
and uhh I forgot what else I was gonna say... :D

 

[Zozefup]

The last tournament I went to was:

60+ players.

1. ICs (lain)
2. Wolf (kain)
3. Fox (zeton)
4. Snake (joker)
5. MK (affinity)
5. Olimar
7 MK (domo)
7 peach

MK does not dominate tournaments in the midwest. (besides m2k)
OS is worse than Domo, to give you an idea of skill level there.

 

[Laem]

when's the new tierlist coming?

Spoiler

c wut i did thar?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Pro-ban: "Theres no problems with MK, just two stalling techs that are almost impossible to enforce correctly and who people other than MK can also do, just not anywhere near as effectively, therefore, he requires a ban, rather than banning the stalling"

Fix'd. *******.

Tell me why I can't say virtually the same about banning a character?

Saying that in YOUR OPINION it is too subjective to ban Scrooging is no different than MY OPINION that you shouldn't ban Meta Knight, as well as the fact that MK ISN'T BROKEN NOR OVERCENTRALIZING (at least not yet), ESPECIALLY WITHOUT THESE TACTICS.

Noooo... The opinion part has nothing to do with him being banned, or the tactic being banned. It has to do with the enforcement. You cannot objectively enforce Planking. It just doesn't work. See here as for why.

If you can't effectively ban scrooging then tell me why Japan has a ban on it.

Keyword here: effectively.

so i've done some more research. that data makes sense. i'm officially pro-ban

O.o

 

[Overswarm]

Mkay



You would draw the line at the point where MK is so lame that it makes the game unplayable for the user. The point where the line would be crossed is the point that an MK main would be miserable and commit suicide from the sheer displeasure from maining MK, as playing such a lame character needs to prove that he has drained the very will to live with his lameness.


Can I get an explanation now?

You would draw the line at the point where MK is so dominant that it is bad



There you go

 

[HoN3Y64]

Anyway, the 64 comparison people need to pull out some tourney results or something that shows Pika's level of domination.

This only really would prove popularity. Everyone could use Samus or Link and they wouldn't be top tier.

 

[Overswarm]

The last tournament I went to was:

60+ players.

1. ICs (lain)
2. Wolf (kain)
3. Fox (zeton)
4. Snake (joker)
5. MK (affinity)
5. Olimar
7 MK (domo)
7 peach

MK does not dominate tournaments in the midwest. (besides m2k)
OS is worse than Domo, to give you an idea of skill level there.

I'm 1-0 with Domo, and last time Lain played with MW:E he got 7th

 

[BSP]

This only really would prove popularity. Everyone could use Samus or Link and they wouldn't be top tier.

No, people were saying that 64 pikachu is broken and is still not banned. I said for Pika to be similar to MK, they would have to show us some tournament results to prove that pikachu is taking most top spots like MK. If pikachu was dominating like MK, you could view it as popularity, but it could also be viewed as overcentralizing.

Regardless, the 64 comparison failed since the people arguing it couldn't produce any tourney results to back their claims.

 

[Masmasher@]

No, people were saying that 64 pikachu is broken and is still not banned. I said for Pika to be similar to MK, they would have to show us some tournament results to prove that pikachu is taking most top spots like MK. If pikachu was dominating like MK, you could view it as popularity, but it could also be viewed as overcentralizing.

Regardless, the 64 comparison failed since the people arguing it couldn't produce any tourney results to back their claims.

Not exactly
for one tournament results are not conclusive to show dominance. smash follows tournament results to make judgements about characters. This seems to be a reoccuring problem amongest the pro side. you dont need results to see that somethings good or dare i say broken...pikachu is better because his states are better by the games design.
Chun li from third strike dominates in the us and japan much worse then metaknight. by her amount of winning she should be banned, her stats show that she is clearly better then the rest of the cast just like MK. Yet she is not banned.
Alot of you guys seemed to be misinformed as to what overcentralization is.
over centralization is basically use this tactic or lose.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Not exactly
for one tournament results are not conclusive to show dominance. smash follows tournament results to make judgements about characters. This seems to be a reoccuring problem amongest the pro side. you dont need results to see that somethings good or dare i say broken...pikachu is better because his states are better by the games design.
Chun li from third strike dominates in the us and japan much worse then metaknight. by her amount of winning she should be banned, her stats show that she is clearly better then the rest of the cast just like MK. Yet she is not banned.
Alot of you guys seemed to be misinformed as to what overcentralization is.
over centralization is basically use this tactic or lose.

Well by all means and purposes, was it use Chun Li or lose? I'd ban a character with 70/30 matchups over the entire cast too. Also they could look forward to a sequel within the console generation, I suppose.

 

[Masmasher@]

Well by all means and purposes, was it use Chun Li or lose? I'd ban a character with 70/30 matchups over the entire cast too. Also they could look forward to a sequel within the console generation, I suppose.

she had a questionable even matchup with yun though she was mangable by the like of akuma and ken
Though i wish i could see a video of this scrooging you guys are talking about. it seems like it would be hard to enforce. If you were to go around to baning metaknight that would be a good approach to the situation

 

[HeroMystic]

Scrooging is just simply going under the stage to bypass the ledge grab limit. It's stage dependent and honestly not that big of a deal.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Chun is not even with Yun, Yun has a slight advantage. I think you're forgeting YUN was the best character.

 

[Masmasher@]

Chun is not even with Yun, Yun has a slight advantage. I think you're forgeting YUN was the best character.

Yeah i forgot my bad.
Still chun dominates most of the tournaments across the world worse then metaknight

 

[ETWIST51294]

She did dominate the US, Japan, not so much. Especially with Kuroda, he ***** everyone with Akuma at SBO(huge *** tourny).

She mainly dominates in the US cause shes not that hard to use.

 

[Kewkky]

she had a questionable even matchup with yun though she was mangable by the like of akuma and ken
Though i wish i could see a video of this scrooging you guys are talking about. it seems like it would be hard to enforce. If you were to go around to baning metaknight that would be a good approach to the situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHQZBcLb5Z8
2:41-2:51, 2:57-2:59, 3:16-3:21, 3:33-3:38, 3:53-3:57, 4:15-4:19, 7:47-7:52, 7:54-7:57.

Notice how M2K's reason was to run the timer?
Notice how he only glided under the stage to reach the platforms, where Diddy had it harder for him to reach without getting seriously hurt by MK?
Notice how at the start of the match, M2K clearly dominated Gnes and from that moment until 4 minutes into the match, he was deliberately avoiding any and all contact between both characters unless his opponent was ready for the kill?
And, notice how many times M2K actually grabbed the ledge?

That's what people dislike.


There are probably some of the other famous scrooging moments flying around, if you NEED them I can try looking for them, but I can't promise anything. :/

 

[Overswarm]

I question the effectiveness of a strategy when M2K can lose the lead after having a full stock lead.

 

[Kewkky]

I question the effectiveness of a strategy when M2K can lose the lead after having a full stock lead.

The strategy is simply to "run the timer". He's doing nothing but running and stalling for time.


If characters jump off-stage and try to even the field against MK? Well, then he can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OztKYId64M