Official Link Question and Answer Thread

[IYM!]

He is still pretty slow. Fsmash was Buffed up a bit in terms of Knock-back. Spin Attack is much, much worse, he can't Semi-Spike, and it's power is much weaker.
Other than that, Link was just adjusted to fit Brawl's Gameplay (Things like Usmash holding people in, Bair holding people when you ascend, and Zair has a bit more use. IMO)

Agree, Zair have more uses now, is usefull for spacing and attack, but now is shorter than the hookshot

the new Usmash of link is better now traps much better.


but the spin attack was unnecessarily nerfed, his kill power and the semi spike now gone


about may previous post, i tiped wrong, i didnt want say "fater", i wanted say "Faster"

 

[Ryos4]

well technically most knock back has been reduced in terms of kill potential since recovery has generally been buffed for most characters. I think spin attacks initial hit is still about as strong as it was before, just all recovery options have been buffed along with DI. The only real problem is that the 2nd and 3rd hit of the spin attack are too weak.

 

[Zatchiel]

@Ryros: I normally used SA and KO'd Bowser at about 80% in Melee.

You can try the same thing in Brawl, but even with Bowser's added floatiness, it won't work.

Unless you're talking about a Fully-Charged SA, but that's very situational, and Fsmash is better.

SA still makes for a decent OoS option, but it's easily punished.

 

[Ryos4]

The Floatiness is what makes everyone harder to kill. The effect of direction influence is a lot stronger in brawl then melee, so its easier for people to gain momentum back toward stage and thus survive. The Spin attack from melee has lost its good trajectory in brawl and now takes time to reach max power which even then is still weak. But i think the non charged spin attack is about as strong as the melee one with just a more upward trajectory making easier to survive. even with the same trajectory as melee. With the momentum canceling and floatiness of brawl, i think have the cast could still survive it no problem. It would only kill people like Link. But then again people with tether recoveries could just whiplash it to survive.

Frankly i think Link is better in brawl than melee. Just that everyone else was improved more then Link was.

If you look at his move set.
Better: Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, Ftilt, Rang, Arrow, Zair, Dair, Bair, Fair
Neutral: Utilt, Bombs, Uair, Nair
Worse: Dtilt, Spin attack, Jab, Aerial Spin Attack

Game Mechanics:
Better: DI, Momentum Canceling, Hit box, Life expectancy (not including gimps),
Neutral: Weight, Jump, Speed
Worse: Recovery, Hit stun

Plus in my opinion the lack of the single air dodge that could be used to wave dash was taken out, making Link more effective at spacing. Instead of having to always be worried about someone sliding right up to ur face with a charged smash.

 

[Huggles828]

I dunno, I think Link not only succumbed to "everybody got buffed" but also got nerfed pretty hard (although a good bit of that is also due to the physics change). His recovery got nerfed, not just relatively but also how far it can go, I think, which when you factor in how much floatier Brawl is it's kinda sad (couldn't he kick his own bombs for extra height or something? I dunno a lot about Link and his recovery in Melee). He can't L cancel so dair and uair are much more dangerous/less useful. Boomerang hitting on the return was supposed to be very nice, right? Extra hitstun meant Link had some combos. Didn't his nair have crazy priority?

Zair was pretty awful as an attack in Melee iirc though, and it's a great move for him in Brawl. But other than that I don't think Link really got any love in Brawl

 

[Ryos4]

Which is really just what i was saying. Link didnt really get much worse, its just the game mechanics that screwed him. Its kinda like they got too lazy to upgrade Link to Brawl status and left him behind.

 

[Huggles828]

Oh, haha. I didn't even see that post. 1 minute time difference.

I dunno though. I think even if Brawl Link was in Melee he wouldn't be much better off. I think no matter how you slice it he's not as good, and the physics changes just make things even worse for him. Poor Link

 

[IYM!]

i hate sakurai for this,

his f**** kirby was buffered, and Link was nerfed

to be honest, i like very much this Link, is strong, fast, have a better range and his projectiles was buffered, in terms of knockback speed and hitboxes.

but the problem is the recovery.

If this Link has the same spin attack than have in Brawl minus( in terms of recovery) Link would be very very much better character and he would be in a highest part of the tier list.

good recovery + exelent DI= live for ever ( 250% )

 

[Ryos4]

Hmm i think his survival rate would still be lower then a good snake. If you look at ally, his DI and MC is ridiculously good, and since snake is heavier, Im pretty sure Link wouldn't do better at surviving.

 

[Rizen]

The Floatiness is what makes everyone harder to kill. The effect of direction influence is a lot stronger in brawl then melee, so its easier for people to gain momentum back toward stage and thus survive. The Spin attack from melee has lost its good trajectory in brawl and now takes time to reach max power which even then is still weak. But i think the non charged spin attack is about as strong as the melee one with just a more upward trajectory making easier to survive. even with the same trajectory as melee. With the momentum canceling and floatiness of brawl, i think have the cast could still survive it no problem. It would only kill people like Link. But then again people with tether recoveries could just whiplash it to survive.

Frankly i think Link is better in brawl than melee. Just that everyone else was improved more then Link was.

If you look at his move set.
Better: Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, Ftilt, Rang, Arrow, Zair, Dair, Bair, Fair
Neutral: Utilt, Bombs, Uair, Nair
Worse: Dtilt, Spin attack, Jab, Aerial Spin Attack

Game Mechanics:
Better: DI, Momentum Canceling, Hit box, Life expectancy (not including gimps),
Neutral: Weight, Jump, Speed
Worse: Recovery, Hit stun

Plus in my opinion the lack of the single air dodge that could be used to wave dash was taken out, making Link more effective at spacing. Instead of having to always be worried about someone sliding right up to ur face with a charged smash.

I disagree with a lot of this. Fsmash is better in KO potential if it hits but is powershielding is super easy and Fsmash has a TON of lag especially at the end and only 2 frames of attack per cut. The gale boomerang does have good new features but they're not strong enough, the wind should be stronger and move shields. The starting lag and catching lag are a pain too. Melee's boomerang was faster, stronger and a better defense returning. Zair as an attack is much better in Brawl but loosing the wall scaling sucked. Link's grab is worse in every way and Brawl is such a shield-and-counter game that it seriously hurts Link. Uair in Brawl is much weaker. Bombs are a double edged sword- worse for recovery (not that it would make a difference vs MK), and better for onstage tricks. Brawl's Dair is worse because the end lag and no-bounce fastfall version; it's too risky/punishable to have improved. Melee's Nair could be chained to more Nairs and Brawl's has gaps; it might have better projectile blocking though. Hylian shield's worse in size and doesn't constantly block when standing.
Utilt's slightly better in brawl. Jabs are a lot better, the infinite stab thing was hard to do and almost never the best choice. Jab canceling is better.
Game mechanics:
DI, weight, hit box size (except Spin Attack and grab), and surviving star KOs are better, I agree. Jump, speed, and Lag are worse. The new shielding and multi-airdodge system really hurt slow/bad recovery characters like Link. Link falls so fast he can't usually dodge more than once when recovering and floaties can air camp. Plus Link's side air movement and mobility in general are terrible; it's difficult to punish landings or not be punished landing.

Other things I agree with.

Melee's Link was a much better character than Brawl Link. Melee's plus' and Brawl's plus' combined would make Link a good character.

 

[IYM!]

totaly agree with you Rizen,

but IMO, the only thing than this Link need is a better recovery like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR-gNgfmxUI&feature=search see at 1:30

also would be good a stronger spink attak an a stronger second hit of Fsmash


and gimps arrows Yeah!!!!!!

 

[Huggles828]

Yeah, Link needs a lot of work to be competitive IMO. Even if he could, say, recover as well as Toon Link, that still leaves Link with a ton of vulnerabilities. Link's best hope OoS, in the heavily defensive game that Brawl is, is to run away and try to reset the spacing. He's heavy and falls fast making him more vulnerable to combos, which in general aren't as big of an issue in Brawl as they are in Melee. He can be chaingrabbed to heck by Dedede and Falco and probably others (I know Marth can string a few together, for example). He's slow enough on the ground and in the air that he has trouble spacing properly, which is the very key to playing Link successfully. Does that mean Link is awful? Well, sorta. He's a solid character in many ways (hard to flatout kill, can survive semispikes, strong, good range on his attacks, etc.), he's just left behind by a game where his strengths are fairly inconsequential and his weaknesses when looked at collectively become crippling. He's a Buster Sword in a Plasma Rifle fight if you will.

Brawl minus is a ton of fun though. It makes me sad that I'm not very good as Link and significantly better as Toon Link when I random him though Although Ganon is hella fun in Brawl minus >:D

 

[Mister Eric]

Hellu Link Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Link fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Link abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Link's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

 

[Ryos4]

Vs. Rob? hmm. I think that might be a bad idea.

IMO Link is terrible at walk off stages, his throws are too easy to DI, Bthrow or Fthrow will probably never kill unless you are really really really close to the dead zone. If Link tries to bait Rob. Either one of Robs projectiles will probably kill him.

Also the water hazards is terrible for Link. He has a tiny jump out of the water and Rob could just float over your head, Dair, and you're dead. All Link can do is Dair as well, but it sends people up, and leaves Link in a bad position. Especially on the portion of the stage with the high ground and water pits in between. OMG is that bad for Link.

The semipermeable stage, allows to fly below and through the stage as he pleases. While its not that danger to Link as it is to others, it still an advantage for Rob. Link can drop bombs and Dair people as they approach from below. But also let it be known that it is possible for Link to Dtilt spike someone jumping through the stage.

Only plus side for Link is if he can manage a jab lock and walk them to their death, or "infinite" jab lock them into one of the walls.

Maybe the amount of platforms on the stage could be useful to Link as well as the uneven portions of the stage. Camping is easier on uneven stages and approaching is a bit more awkward.

Lets say fighting rob on FD is a 10, i would say maybe 3 or less would be delphino vs rob. Though its not as bad as say Rainbow Cruise which would be like 1 or 0. But then again that's just my opinion.

 

[Scabe]

Mister Eric is popping up everywhere asking the same question, man I gotta take a look at how good this stage thread will be.

 

[Mister Eric]

Ryos: Thank you a beepton!<3

@ Scabe: Leisha's behind it, so you know it will be da beepin bomb XD

But yea, this has, so far, been very helpful. I'm okay with people ignoring my question because they might not feel like they know enough to answer it, or they're like i usually am and too lazy XD

what I don't like so far from this is some people just trolling it "just shark, you'll win" and what-not because it seems to take attention away from my post and then it never gets answered =/

but yeah, it's time for rob to steps it up some.

 

[Rizen]

Q: How does Link fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Link abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Link's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

Hi.
ROB out spams Link and has lots of room to camp/air camp. ROB's slow enough that Link can land some projectiles but the stage makes it difficult. Link has 1 spike (Dtilt) and it's pretty worthless. Link can throw bombs down and Dair ROB if you try to attack/recover from under the main pass-through platform. The best thing ROB can do is moving camp and build up damage. When you get the opportunity hit/throw Link off stage and gimp him. Play defensively. ROB can probably time Link out without much trouble. VS characters who force Link to approach and/or have good air games, Delfino is bad for Link. VS ROB it might be worse than Frigate. 1 or 2 of 10 rank.

 

[DanGR]

Did you guys know Link can travel under Smashville from ledge to ledge

 

[Scabe]

Nope I had no idea :O

 

[Rizen]

Did you guys know Link can travel under Smashville from ledge to ledge

With a bomb and good timing.

 

[FSK]

Did you guys know Link can travel under Smashville from ledge to ledge

Oh my god, really?

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMCpDCkFB2Y

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ozkqoA90Y

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4REp7UP-Vwk

FSK

 

[quirkynature]

FSK, The FD vid was AWESOME!! I learnt something new today!

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks a beepton Ryos and Arizen!
If anyone else cares to add anything, feel free! It will be greatly appreciated! xD

 

[quirkynature]

@ Mr. Eric: I personally don't know much about versing ROB, but his projectiles are better than Link's any day, any time. The only stage I'd go to with ROB is Norfair (I hit and run on that stage) or FD (I train on it a ton) only.

As for Delfino Plaza, it's similar to BF, except the few parts where the blast zones are walk-off. We can't gimp you guys there, and, as Rizen said, the spike is pretty worthless. If you guys use projectiles as much as we do, you can pivot laser or top us...wait...you don't HAVE to play defensive against Link on Delfino. Get us offstage and D-air. Gimp to twist the knife. I'd rate 2 on Delfino.

 

[TimeTemporal]

I have a question. Say I'm at higher % so that I can throw a bomb at my feet and make Link travel upward a good distance. Is this worthwhile? Like, to chase someone that you launched upward, or to travel up Rainbow Cruise quickly, etc. Or is it not useful/not worth the damage?

 

[Scabe]

Sounds cool

Sometimes I bomb myself at high percents when a player with invincibility is coming for me to get away from them.

 

[quirkynature]

Is this worthwhile?

I'd argue against bombing yourself to chase someone you launched upwards purely because by the time you actually get to them, they'll be out of hitstun and prepared with a D-air or what-have-they.

As for traveling upwards on a stage, I'd advise against it, too, purely because Link's recovery is his DI. Any and all damage you take increases the knockback Link takes, which makes you work harder to get him back to the stage. If your opponent is far enough, jump (up-B if needed) to get to higher ground. If he's close enough, jump and bomb the ground to get him into hitstun. Then, jump and get to higher ground.

It's your playstyle. Regardless of what people tell you, play as it suits you. It's definitely a cool idea, no contest there, but the question really is: is it worthwhile?

 

[Rizen]

I have a question. Say I'm at higher % so that I can throw a bomb at my feet and make Link travel upward a good distance. Is this worthwhile? Like, to chase someone that you launched upward, or to travel up Rainbow Cruise quickly, etc. Or is it not useful/not worth the damage?

Bombs can be used as situational recovery tools. Don't use them to chase opponents; the hitstun is risky, Link can juggle opponents a little by throwing bombs up, Uair has enough disjointed reach upwards to beat any attack coming strait down that isn't invincible, and characters are generally in a better position under high recovering opponents because they must come down. Also Link's air movement is horrible and his attacks are slow, he's better near the ground (not necessarily on the ground).

 

[TimeTemporal]

I'd argue against bombing yourself to chase someone you launched upwards purely because by the time you actually get to them, they'll be out of hitstun and prepared with a D-air or what-have-they.

As for traveling upwards on a stage, I'd advise against it, too, purely because Link's recovery is his DI. Any and all damage you take increases the knockback Link takes, which makes you work harder to get him back to the stage. If your opponent is far enough, jump (up-B if needed) to get to higher ground. If he's close enough, jump and bomb the ground to get him into hitstun. Then, jump and get to higher ground.

It's your playstyle. Regardless of what people tell you, play as it suits you. It's definitely a cool idea, no contest there, but the question really is: is it worthwhile?

What about ROB, seeing as though he has no fast moves that strike below him? Rocket propelled Uair into an Upsmashed Rob as a finisher?
And when I mentioned travelling RC, I meant something like using it to escape from someone that's trying to gimp you in the magic carpet area by quickly reaching the top.

 

[Scabe]

It's a pretty cool idea as I said before

Should talk about bombing yourself in this dead thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220108&page=37

I'm sure there's heaps of applications for bombing yourself.

 

[TimeTemporal]

It's a pretty cool idea as I said before

Should talk about bombing yourself in this dead thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220108&page=37

I'm sure there's heaps of applications for bombing yourself.

The link brings me back to here...

 

[Luxor]

mindgaemz son

 

[quirkynature]

mindgaemz son

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL!!

 

[Scabe]

LOL whoops, I meant this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277706

 

[Z1GMA]

What would Link's moveset-tierlist look like?

Ya know:

Top:
[input attack]
[input attack]

High:
[input attack]
[input attack]

Middle:
[input attack]
[input attack]
[input attack]

Low:
[input attack]
[input attack]
[input attack]

Bottom:
[input attack]
[input attack]

 

[Scabe]

What would Link's moveset-tierlist look like?

Ya know:

Top:
[input attack]
[input attack]

High:
[input attack]
[input attack]

Middle:
[input attack]
[input attack]
[input attack]

Low:
[input attack]
[input attack]
[input attack]

Bottom:
[input attack]
[input attack]

What's this for?

Anyways here's a thread with that tier list stuff

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254452

 

[quirkynature]

Hey, Scabe, I have a vid of me getting ***** by Peach (CPU). I'd like it to know what I'm doing wrong. She's one of my absolute worst matchups.

Should I PM you the mediafire link or paste it in the Pictograph thread?

 

[Scabe]

I guess you can PM it, actually paste it in the Pictograph so that it gets bumped and hopefully I get more service

 

[Huggles828]

OK, so I've been practicing my jablocking, and it's been coming along pretty nicely. I do, however, have a question. Every now and then, I'll initiate the jablock, hit the opponent a couple of times, and then they'll just roll away or do the standing up attack. Whenever I get a longer jablock, they always just stand up and I can hit them with a charged smash or whatever. The magic number seems to be three hits. Does anyone know if this is the problem; that you have to get at least three hits in before they're forced to do the standup animation?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Once they're locked, it shouldn't matter, they should always have a forced get up (it's the rules). It doesn't matter how many times you hit them, once, three times or ten times, it shouldn't affect it. You must be doing something wrong (they musn't have been locked or you stuffed up somehow). If you continue to have a problem with it and don't understand why it isn't working, maybe you could get a vid up of it not working (of it letting them do whatever they want before three hits) and I should be able to spot what went wrong.