Official Link Question and Answer Thread

[Rizen]

I know that characters like Wolf, Captain Falcon and Luigi carry over the lag from their B up if they grab the edge then jump back on stage, and that you can reduce it some, but not completely, if you use an aerial with no or little lag. This might not be what you're talking about though.

I don't think Link is really affected by this. Usually when I land, I quickdraw or use air dodge -> zair. Actually, does zair have ANY lag at all? In other words, would Link have less landing lag after a zair than just landing or an air dodge?

I think Zair/Bair/Fair/Nair(after frame 8)/airdodge all have the same normal landing lag for Link.

 

[Scabe]

I think Link has the same landing lag as his normal landing lag when he uses Zair. So that's why you can actually get shield grabbed if done too closely.

Oh yeah pretty much what MES said ^

 

[febs]

is there a link player finder thread?

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

is there a link player finder thread?

Kind of. We have the General Information, FAQs, and Introductions thread that includes a list of all SWF Link mains who have submitted biographies. Feel free to stop by and check it out; while your at it, you'd may as well leave a message with a biography of you own if you plan to stick around!

Welcome to The Link Boards, febs. If you ever need anything, just contact myself, Scabe, or any other frequent member here; we'd be glad to help!

 

[Mr. Johan]

When are the two (are there two, or a just one hitbox that gets progressively weaker?) hitboxes of a Grounded Up-B? And when does the second (?) hitbox end?

I've had a Sonic grab me multiple times after I erroneously predicted a rush toward me, and he grabbed me when the sword slashing animation was still present, so I'd like to know if he's grabbing just as soon as the hitbox disappears, or if it's that terrible of a move to whiff with.

 

[Huggles828]

It's actually three hitboxes; the tip, the sword, and the hilt, and they all get weaker the longer the move goes on. If Sonic is running up and shields, if he shields any part of it, he shields all of it, so he can grab you. Also, the last half spin or so has no hitbox.

Overall, it's not that great of an attack, although it's sometimes used out of shield because you don't have to waste time dropping your shield first (like Bowser and his B up on the ground).

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=124952 This thread is where I got my info. Plus it's a cool thread anyway. Hope this helps.

 

[Rizen]

To add to that^, grabs have almost the highest priority of any move in the game. If a grab connects and a smash hits at the same time the grabber will take damage but no hitstun and be holding the opponent ready to throw or whatever.

 

[quirkynature]

When fighting an Ike main, I usually employ hit-and-run tactics. I shield and spotdodge a lot, grab->d-throw->f-smash whenever possible as my main damage racker defensively, use my projectiles to the point of spamming them, and I usually win.

I have no edge guarding game, however, and that usually results in Ike finally dying at around 160% by my f-tilt or f-smash. Ike's Aether is the biggest problem, since that's what he uses mostly. Quick draw I can punish with a dash attack or f-tilt.

Any advice on how to develop an edge guarding game using Wii remotes? I think that might be the problem itself.

 

[Huggles828]

Ike's B up is pretty predictable, but it's still hard to edgeguard because he'll be coming in low and has super armor. Gale guarding is fairly useful against Ike (jump off the edge, and throw the boomerang at the edge; it'll bounce off the edge and blow Ike backwards if you aim it right. It can take some practice). You can also try dair, but you'd have to time it just right to avoid Ike's super armor.

I suppose the classic way if Ike is aiming to grab the edge is to grab the edge right as Ike pulls up his sword to throw it up, then right before you would lose invinciblity you can roll back on stage (being at 100% makes you roll back up slower) and if you time it right Ike will fall down while you're still on the edge. If you're feeling particularly ballsy, one thing I liked to do to my roommate was to short hop off the edge backward right as Ike pulls up his sword, airdodge through the sword spinning, and tether the edge once you're past the sword so Ike falls straight down, since Link stretches his body outward when he grabs the edge. The second option probably isn't as great, but it does make you feel like a man when you pull it off

Edgeguarding is definitely something you'll want to work on as Link. He's best at stopping people getting back on stage from the ledge, and can rack up lots of damage this way.

I don't know a whole lot about other controllers; I've always used the Gamecube controller to play Brawl. So I can't really help you there, sorry. Hope this helps.

 

[Rizen]

When fighting an Ike main, I usually employ hit-and-run tactics. I shield and spotdodge a lot, grab->d-throw->f-smash whenever possible as my main damage racker defensively, use my projectiles to the point of spamming them, and I usually win.

I have no edge guarding game, however, and that usually results in Ike finally dying at around 160% by my f-tilt or f-smash. Ike's Aether is the biggest problem, since that's what he uses mostly. Quick draw I can punish with a dash attack or f-tilt.

Any advice on how to develop an edge guarding game using Wii remotes? I think that might be the problem itself.

Say you Fsmash Ike off stage far enough; charge an arrow. This forces Ike to: (A)Quickdraw from high> shoot your arrow and punish his landing. (B) Quickdraw near the edge> Shoot Ike and spam arrows that fly below the stage (stand so the arrows miss landing on the stage and almost hit the edge). (C) Fall to your horizontal plane hoping to Aether> Shoot him when he's lined up with your arrow and spam arrows or Zair edge hog. (D) air dodge> edgehog he will be very low.
You can zair the edge 3 times in a row and outlast Aether if you need to and time it right.

Or wait until Ike's under the stage and short hop barely of the edge and throw a bomb down or 'Z' drop a bomb. If it hit's Ike from the outside he will be launched up into the stage and get stage spiked (provided he doesn't teck). Aether only has armor frames at the start of the attack.

What Huggles said works too.

 

[quirkynature]

Ike's B up is pretty predictable, but it's still hard to edgeguard because he'll be coming in low and has super armor. Gale guarding is fairly useful against Ike (jump off the edge, and throw the boomerang at the edge; it'll bounce off the edge and blow Ike backwards if you aim it right. It can take some practice). You can also try dair, but you'd have to time it just right to avoid Ike's super armor.

I suppose the classic way if Ike is aiming to grab the edge is to grab the edge right as Ike pulls up his sword to throw it up, then right before you would lose invinciblity you can roll back on stage (being at 100% makes you roll back up slower) and if you time it right Ike will fall down while you're still on the edge.

Gale guarding works wonders against a lv 3-7 CPU using Aether. Thanks! The edgegrab needs work, but I can pull it off occasionally.

Say you Fsmash Ike off stage far enough; charge an arrow. This forces Ike to: (A)Quickdraw from high> shoot your arrow and punish his landing. (B) Quickdraw near the edge> Shoot Ike and spam arrows that fly below the stage (stand so the arrows miss landing on the stage and almost hit the edge). (C) Fall to your horizontal plane hoping to Aether> Shoot him when he's lined up with your arrow and spam arrows or Zair edge hog. (D) air dodge> edgehog he will be very low.
You can zair the edge 3 times in a row and outlast Aether if you need to and time it right.

Z-air edgehog x3 is slightly inconvenient because Z on the gamecube controller = the minus button on the Wii remote, so I need to readjust my hand accordingly, but shooting arrows (as you said) to get Ike close enough, hitting him with one final Gale Boomerang and then predicting the Aether to short hop and Z-air x3 works well, too!

Thanks to both!!

 

[Anonymous24]

Ike's B up is pretty predictable, but it's still hard to edgeguard because he'll be coming in low and has super armor. Gale guarding is fairly useful against Ike (jump off the edge, and throw the boomerang at the edge; it'll bounce off the edge and blow Ike backwards if you aim it right. It can take some practice). You can also try dair, but you'd have to time it just right to avoid Ike's super armor.

I suppose the classic way if Ike is aiming to grab the edge is to grab the edge right as Ike pulls up his sword to throw it up, then right before you would lose invinciblity you can roll back on stage (being at 100% makes you roll back up slower) and if you time it right Ike will fall down while you're still on the edge. If you're feeling particularly ballsy, one thing I liked to do to my roommate was to short hop off the edge backward right as Ike pulls up his sword, airdodge through the sword spinning, and tether the edge once you're past the sword so Ike falls straight down, since Link stretches his body outward when he grabs the edge. The second option probably isn't as great, but it does make you feel like a man when you pull it off

Edgeguarding is definitely something you'll want to work on as Link. He's best at stopping people getting back on stage from the ledge, and can rack up lots of damage this way.

I don't know a whole lot about other controllers; I've always used the Gamecube controller to play Brawl. So I can't really help you there, sorry. Hope this helps.

I agree with this. completely. I use the nunchuck and wii mote. With gale edge guarding you would need to to time it on a good angle for it to work. I actually find it much more easier to Zair Edge guard with the wii remote w/nunchuck then it is to with the gamecube controller (pending on the person). Continuing on towards the Zair edge guard it takes timing when doing it with Ike or any other character in which they have a vertical recovery. I say this because if your timing is off the opponent will grab the ledge and then you need to recover again. Everything else had been explained by the others

 

[quirkynature]

Huggles, MES and Anonymous24, thanks for your tips!

Spamming arrows and the Gale Boomerang killed Ike's Quick Draw, and the Boomerang resulted in quite a few hilarious Ike's suicides owing to its pulling effect.

Needless to say, but, Link FTW!

 

[Swordplay]

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=124952

Added to FAQ. Thank you Huggles. I forgot about that.

Consider nair against Ike too. People with slow air moves don't use them a lot cause it takes up valuable recovery time. Nair also stops quick draw if he uses it. Got to catch him before super armor up b though. If you go out to early though got to worry about Fair. A projectile helps mitigate that.

 

[Geddan]

so i have a friend who is considering picking up brawl again, only problem is that he wants to use a fight stick while maining link.

thoughts? should he not bother since his control scheme will be such a hindrance?

serious question btw. i told him i could help him to become better since i know a fair amount about link as i had tried to main him in the past.

 

[Scabe]

What's a fight stick? Is it one of those arcade things?

It should be okay, people play with Wii+Chucks and still manage to **** so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[quirkynature]

I don't think a fight stick is applicable in Brawl, but I'm not too sure, either.

It's like those multi button things that used to be in arcade games, and are now out for Street Fighter 4 and Tatsunoko v/s Capcom.

Image: http://www.digitalbattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/fight-stick-te.jpg

 

[Rizen]

For Link you need 2 directional inputs (+ pad, control stick). A fighting stick will not be effective. Do those have smash (tap the stick) functions that register in brawl?

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

For Link you need 2 directional inputs (+ pad, control stick). A fighting stick will not be effective. Do those have smash (tap the stick) functions that register in brawl?

Why do we need two directional inputs?

 

[Rizen]

Why do we need two directional inputs?

Many ATs require the second input to be set to 'Smash'. To Fsmash with a bomb you must hold 'attack' and enter 'smash' left or right with 'C' or the + pad. 'C' down is the fastest way to dash attack and DAC. And Link needs to move in one direction and use aerial attacks or throw bombs in another. Link's complicated.

Edit:
My sig was cut off. I'll need to re-size it. If any Link needs a signature made PM me.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Many ATs require the second input to be set to 'Smash'. To Fsmash with a bomb you must hold 'attack' and enter 'smash' left or right with 'C' or the + pad. 'C' down is the fastest way to dash attack and DAC. And Link needs to move in one direction and use aerial attacks or throw bombs in another. Link's complicated.

Edit:
My sig was cut off. I'll need to re-size it. If any Link needs a signature made PM me.

Oh. I thought you meant like... Two analogue sticks. I almost flipped

What true combos can you get out of a bomb>footstool?

 

[Scabe]

Nair and Dair I believe.

 

[Rizen]

What true combos can you get out of a bomb>footstool?

Nair and Dair I believe.

At high %s only Nair because it starts faster. At some point the bomb launch becomes fast enough that Link can't attack in time. If the bomb is thrown strait down on the opponent the launch will be more vertical and Dair is easier to land.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Can't you do... Nair>Jab lock?

 

[Sovereign]

Yo Link Boards. While playin' with my brother, he did this funky thing with UpB, where he runs off stage and performed the aerial version while dropping. I wanna know if you guys already discovered it.

 

[Rizen]

Yo Link Boards. While playin' with my brother, he did this funky thing with UpB, where he runs off stage and performed the aerial version while dropping. I wanna know if you guys already discovered it.

We know. Thanks for the info, on rare occasion that kills us because we can't jump afterward.

 

[Sovereign]

We know. Thanks for the info, on rare occasion that kills us because we can't jump afterward.

Well, any person should know that using UpB puts you in fall state, afterwards. I'm just saying that off the edge you can UpB, and Link will cancel it by grabbing the edge, but a few attacks will come out. Holding Up or Down will not grab the ledge, and you will fall to your doom.

Did you know that holding B will cancel the move entirely? You'll know when you did it, because the gleam from the UpB start will happen, but you will go into a regular aerial fall, allowing you to do anything afterwards. I think it's good for a fake out or so, you can even use your second jump.

 

[Rizen]

Well, any person should know that using UpB puts you in fall state, afterwards. I'm just saying that off the edge you can UpB, and Link will cancel it by grabbing the edge, but a few attacks will come out. Holding Up or Down will not grab the ledge, and you will fall to your doom.

Did you know that holding B will cancel the move entirely? You'll know when you did it, because the gleam from the UpB start will happen, but you will go into a regular aerial fall, allowing you to do anything afterwards. I think it's good for a fake out or so, you can even use your second jump.

Some people can time that from platforms, not me lol. A ground spin attack will turn into an air spin attack if it slides off a platform which always falls and cancels second jumps. The fakeout must be before the attack starts, I didn't know that. Our upB's so punishable that canceling it is smart when done successfully. We have to DI towards the stage to grab the edge sometimes.

 

[Scabe]

Yeah I've had that happen a few times not on purpose, I tried to do an up B at the edge but I ended up falling off and it didn't grab the ledge xD. I find it hard to do though.

And holding B when you do your Up B at the edge of Platforms and the stage edge, will make it cancel.

Anyways thanks for posting in the Q and A thread instead of making a new thread.

 

[Sovereign]

No problem. QnA is for things like this. Just tryin' to see if this could become something of use.

Seriously though, the gleam from the UpB Ledge Cancel will catch someone off guard.

 

[Rizen]

I wonder if other chargeable upBs like fox/diddy etc can be canceled.

 

[quirkynature]

I couldn't do it with Fox or Diddy at all, and I could replicate Link's only roughly 75% of the time, so I'm not too sure.

 

[Huggles828]

Even though Fox's and Diddy's upBs both charge, they both make them stop (or pause for a second for Diddy). Maybe that stops it for whatever reason? Like even though they're technically doing the grounded versions it still makes them pause because of how the physics engine works or something? Although I'm still not entirely sure if I understand what's going on here; anyone have a video? I might be thinking of something else entirely :/

 

[Scabe]

Here's the Spin Attack cancel that we've been talking about. I'll try find a vid of the one where Link falls down the ledge when he uses the Spin Attack.

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[Rizen]

^ I remember that now. Too bad we can't cancel after the first few attack frames. Link and TLink are the only characters who have canceling upBs that way. Although, I've never seen it with TLink. He might not slide enough.

 

[Sovereign]

^ I remember that now. Too bad we can't cancel after the first few attack frames. Link and TLink are the only characters who have canceling upBs that way. Although, I've never seen it with TLink. He might not slide enough.

TLink slides enough on his own. His cancel is much easier than Link's, since his traction is much lower.

 

[quirkynature]

Question: When a character keeps rolling behind Link and jabbing, is it better to quickly d-smash or grounded up-b? Which has more range?

The uncharged up-b is more punishable if spot-dodged (why does the hitbox have to disappear so quickly?!), and has greater knockback, but the d-smash is MUCH faster and better for followups...

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Question: When a character keeps rolling behind Link and jabbing, is it better to quickly d-smash or grounded up-b? Which has more range?

The uncharged up-b is more punishable if spot-dodged (why does the hitbox have to disappear so quickly?!), and has greater knockback, but the d-smash is MUCH faster and better for followups...

Out of the two, D-Smash is the better option.

However, I would recommend that you just shield. From there, you could grab, jab back, retreat, or basically anything else in retaliation.

 

[quirkynature]

One more: How do I pull off the d-tilt spike?

 

[Scabe]

It's extremely hard to pull it off. It's alot easier to pull it off when their on the ledge but the chances of that are slim since your opponent won't stay there for that long. So your best bet is to not try it at all or, try it as much as you can and hope that it hits!

Anyways this is the Dtilt hitbubble:

And this is what it looks like when it spikes a Squirtle hanging on the ledge:

Also a few threads that may help you: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=251270
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238556
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214881&highlight=spike