Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
sorry lux. i got busy with work. ill get those articles together for ya. also, i didn't really know what else to say after the last pm. u were pretty simple and straight forward about it.
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Official Innovative Ideas Thread
- Thread starter Luckay4Lyphe
- Start date
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
kuro. the arrow looping guide the Ultimate Guide is broken. the pictures that show how you do the loops are gone 
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
It's probably affiliated with megaupload >.>...possibly.
Gadiel_VaStar
Smash Champion
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Well...that's cuz most of us know for the most part what we need to work on.
Lately, i've been messin around with true pivot usage and testing bair mix-ups/traps on various characters to see who it works best on and possibly implement it in the near future.
Lately, i've been messin around with true pivot usage and testing bair mix-ups/traps on various characters to see who it works best on and possibly implement it in the near future.
C.S. Dinah
Smash Champion
I'm starting to see how Pit could be pretty stupid on Brinstar.
Oh wait, it's banned isn't it?
Oh wait, it's banned isn't it?
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
Not in the unity ruleset
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
That's stupidly easy...
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
it's also stupidly guarenteed
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Never standing on platforms again.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
is zss one of the characters that can't tech a platform slip nick? if not then all you would eat is a strong bair
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
lol. I'd never even attempt that against zss. dsmash+platforms=DUUUUUUUUUUMB
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
In that case, platforms all day.
Luckay4Lyphe
Smash Master
Good job posting edge slip stuff for Pit. I intended to a while back, but never got around to it.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
i've recently been abusing how safe arrow looping is on FD and tbh i think it makes FD near broken for us as we can just keep looping in shield and punish anything they do with almost all of our moves, even ftilt. anyone else think just having that controlled hit box on FD is possibly a broken spacing tool whereas it's hampered much more severly on every other stage due to platforms forcing specific areas where it's usually not even viable plus none of them are as long on FD so the space is more restricted. i think learning how work around that moving hitbox, and eventually working with multiple hitbox control could make using FD unlock a completely different playstyle involving arrow game, specifically hitbox control for zoning, with pit. no other stage is that big and open, so if you always control a hit box that can be reliably controlled it makes everything safe on shield, even getting grabbed is safe. and it's also always positive on hit so it's not like you'll ever at frame disadvantage.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
It's a possibility. That would take strong precision and timing though. Not that's a bad thing.
I already use dez style looping on FD a bunch. Helps out alot.
I already use dez style looping on FD a bunch. Helps out alot.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
how does dez loop? i've never seen his pit play
edit:
also had an epiphany about fair usage today that im gonna experiment with. but i just had like a level up moment of zoning with fair. hype
edit:
also had an epiphany about fair usage today that im gonna experiment with. but i just had like a level up moment of zoning with fair. hype
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Fair is amazing. My fair usage is getting top tier.
Cross over bair is godlike.
Cross over bair is godlike.
Luckay4Lyphe
Smash Master
dez likes to loop and glide at the same time.
I honestly think abe's loops are the most interesting. My are the boring usuals.
I honestly think abe's loops are the most interesting. My are the boring usuals.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
really? why do you think mine are the most interesting? and i've always meant to start practicing gliding and looping. does he do multiple arrows just standard one arrow play?
Luckay4Lyphe
Smash Master
Just one, yours just come from off the screen in unexpected areas, and you don't notice the arrow looping because you loop it when it's out of view
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I've come up with some of my own loops~
Speaking of abe...
I need to DL his loop game.
Speaking of abe...
I need to DL his loop game.
Kryp
Smash Apprentice
Someone should post a video of some of these crazily looped arrows, I pretty much just do the standard looping, and I'm trying to get some more ideas.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
... now that i think about it why have i never made an in depth loop tutorial? or why hasn't krystedez since apparently he is like the best looper or so i've heard. but he also has not one recent video of his pit on youtube like a **** so how would i know lol?
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I'm gonna fix that w/in the coming month. GOt like 15 replays of him to record.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
I got the best loops, who arrow loops to dtilt spike. This guy..
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
who doubts you ever done/will do that in tournaments tho
this guy
this guy
I'm not going to guarantee this hasn't been thought of before, but I've come up with a counter-tech-chase method that, even if it's not frame perfect, is definitely a viable mixup. Basically, buffer UpB after a getup/tech (not sure if it needs to be neutral or could be a roll). As far as I'm aware, WoI comes out on frame 1, and gives invincibility until Pit is in the air.
So why is this useful? Well, worst case scenario, you avoid the regrab attempt, and have to assess your options from there. However, if your opponent tries for a kill move (snake utilt, G&W dsmash), you will clash with them, and you will both reset (I assume with a 0 frame advantage, but I may be wrong), giving you the opportunity to throw out a quick attack of your own.
I see this being most useful when both you and your opponent are on high %. If you are on high %, then your opponent is a lot more likely to try for a kill move, meaning you'll have a good chance to clash with them, and can then throw out a kill move of your own (fsmash or dsmash). When you consider that Pit's moves come out quite fast, and your opponent won't actually expect a WoI cancel, you'd have a pretty decent chance of connecting.
As for testing, I must admit what I've done so far is minimal. I had a friend dthrow-dsmash me as G&W, and I was able to tech, then WoI clash the dsmash. I haven't confirmed options after the WoI clash, nor have I tested against Snake's tech chase (there may be vulnerability frames in the getup animation). I do intend to do some more testing this Friday when I meet up with friends again, but I don't have any capability whatsoever to test frame data.
Anyway, figured I'd share. Look forward to seeing what comes of this, and hope it helps =)
So why is this useful? Well, worst case scenario, you avoid the regrab attempt, and have to assess your options from there. However, if your opponent tries for a kill move (snake utilt, G&W dsmash), you will clash with them, and you will both reset (I assume with a 0 frame advantage, but I may be wrong), giving you the opportunity to throw out a quick attack of your own.
I see this being most useful when both you and your opponent are on high %. If you are on high %, then your opponent is a lot more likely to try for a kill move, meaning you'll have a good chance to clash with them, and can then throw out a kill move of your own (fsmash or dsmash). When you consider that Pit's moves come out quite fast, and your opponent won't actually expect a WoI cancel, you'd have a pretty decent chance of connecting.
As for testing, I must admit what I've done so far is minimal. I had a friend dthrow-dsmash me as G&W, and I was able to tech, then WoI clash the dsmash. I haven't confirmed options after the WoI clash, nor have I tested against Snake's tech chase (there may be vulnerability frames in the getup animation). I do intend to do some more testing this Friday when I meet up with friends again, but I don't have any capability whatsoever to test frame data.
Anyway, figured I'd share. Look forward to seeing what comes of this, and hope it helps =)
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
good post. but you're right it's something that isn't necessarily new. i've been doing this for a while and it is an amazing option (especially under a platform) but it does have it's drawbacks. if snake has perfect timing he can grab you before it comes out, however most snakes don't have perfect timing and what you said usually does happen, WOI allows an escape or it cancells a move if THEY timed it to hit as the windbox comes out. however we are not invincible as we fly up (it's as the wings push us off the ground that invincibility ends) so snake can still get a utilt off if he didn't step away a bit (i believe it will only cancel moves like that if they hit pit's hurtbox and the windbox while he is invincible but im not sure on that). if snake does step away the windbox usually pushes him out of utilt range and since it's so fast and mobile we can safely escape during WOI.
as for other characters, like you said g&w for example, this also works really well however again you have to be careful as there are windows (albeit incredibly small hence why this works at all and is viable) where things can be done to you. fortunately with g&w if he messes up and uses a smash while we are in get up invincibility his moves are to slow to get us again.
mixing this get up with utilt and the other options that are available will make reading your tech chase very hard for the opponent and will usually allow pit to get away easier than almost any other character because we simply have more options than they do. WOI is an amazing option to get out of a tech chase so good job pointing that out Invisi. you probably just enlightened people who didn't even know this was an option. plus most of the things you said were spot on as well. it can cancel moves, the invincibility helps out a lot, and it is a good/fast escape.
as for other characters, like you said g&w for example, this also works really well however again you have to be careful as there are windows (albeit incredibly small hence why this works at all and is viable) where things can be done to you. fortunately with g&w if he messes up and uses a smash while we are in get up invincibility his moves are to slow to get us again.
mixing this get up with utilt and the other options that are available will make reading your tech chase very hard for the opponent and will usually allow pit to get away easier than almost any other character because we simply have more options than they do. WOI is an amazing option to get out of a tech chase so good job pointing that out Invisi. you probably just enlightened people who didn't even know this was an option. plus most of the things you said were spot on as well. it can cancel moves, the invincibility helps out a lot, and it is a good/fast escape.
I figured you guys would probably already be aware of this, and thus would be able to give tips on how I should use this tech =P
What you said there seems to indicate that a WoI clash is very much dependant on what the opponent does, so I guess I'll have to be careful not to rely on it. However, my (limited) testing seems to indicate that a neutral tech -> buffered WoI will cause a clash with G&W's dthrow -> buffered dsmash, so it is at least useful there. I plan to test snake's utilt when I get the chance.
I guess the main thing I wanted to know that you didn't touch on in your post there would be Pit's options after a WoI clash. I'm guessing that your best option for a kill move would be either fsmash or dsmash, but which comes out faster, and do they beat snake's utilt and G&W's dsmash? If your opponent isn't on kill %, I'm assuming your best option then would be either utilt or grab, but if there are other options, please do tell.
What you said there seems to indicate that a WoI clash is very much dependant on what the opponent does, so I guess I'll have to be careful not to rely on it. However, my (limited) testing seems to indicate that a neutral tech -> buffered WoI will cause a clash with G&W's dthrow -> buffered dsmash, so it is at least useful there. I plan to test snake's utilt when I get the chance.
I guess the main thing I wanted to know that you didn't touch on in your post there would be Pit's options after a WoI clash. I'm guessing that your best option for a kill move would be either fsmash or dsmash, but which comes out faster, and do they beat snake's utilt and G&W's dsmash? If your opponent isn't on kill %, I'm assuming your best option then would be either utilt or grab, but if there are other options, please do tell.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
If you clash with a ground move, the only type you can, the opponent resets to a neutral position. If they react fast enough, you cannot hit with anything.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
what nickriddle said. and snake's ftilt is faster than everything we have but our utilt. still a buffered dsmash can get the job done. fsmash is one frame slower (although it's still really fast, dsmash is that much faster/longer you know?). jab also get the job done but is also frame 5.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
yea but they have to be expecting it. We're already expecting it so we have the mental preparedness while they don't.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
that's not top level thinking
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
It'll work once of twice... After that, you're going to get ****ed though.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Lol ya ik. It's a surprise factor thing. Wasn't saying it'll work everytime cuz of that.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
ARTS: Also known as the angel rings technique, which was thought to be the only real technique with the angel rings. Basically what it does is allow you to get a lunge from the angel rings when began in the air. Which can lead to an extra 10% damage from the rings. There are a bunch of theories about this tech and its very hard to perform consistently. The theory I'm most fond of is to perform the AR when your in 2/3 or 3/4 of your jump on the way up. It doesn't matter what height you start from or the size of your jump. For any aerial jumps, it is when your vertical momentum is 0.
Angel Ring Aerial Combo: This is basically the idea to land AR from the air with no landing lag and no move end lag. However, it does not provide any lunge. But as I discovered for myself, even though most pits don’t agree with me, it has some insane combo potential. What you have to do is make sure you start AR with enough time for it to end as soon as you hit the ground. If your opponent is caught in the attack as you both go down to the ground, you will land just before they do with no landing lag or anything, and they will have hit lag and or landing lag. Giving you a good time to hit them again.
Sliding Attacks: There are other ways to slide around that don’t require the Angelic Step, and it is a lot simpler. All that is required to perform a sliding attack is to tilt the direction stick as far as you can without starting Pits dashing animation. At that point simply attack and you will slide. The sliding F-smash is one of the best of Pit’s kill moves, at least IMO. It requires the use of the C-stick to perform the smashes. But it also allows Pit to slide backwards as well.
just went through some old guides and copied this stuff in here. i find it's useful info and hard to find. still adding to this post via edit as well.
edit:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163980&
so much good old stuff. but there are 2 links im interested in that aren't actual links. wave gliding and wing z cancel. anyone know what these are? AP you've been around forever, what are these 2 things?
Angel Ring Aerial Combo: This is basically the idea to land AR from the air with no landing lag and no move end lag. However, it does not provide any lunge. But as I discovered for myself, even though most pits don’t agree with me, it has some insane combo potential. What you have to do is make sure you start AR with enough time for it to end as soon as you hit the ground. If your opponent is caught in the attack as you both go down to the ground, you will land just before they do with no landing lag or anything, and they will have hit lag and or landing lag. Giving you a good time to hit them again.
Sliding Attacks: There are other ways to slide around that don’t require the Angelic Step, and it is a lot simpler. All that is required to perform a sliding attack is to tilt the direction stick as far as you can without starting Pits dashing animation. At that point simply attack and you will slide. The sliding F-smash is one of the best of Pit’s kill moves, at least IMO. It requires the use of the C-stick to perform the smashes. But it also allows Pit to slide backwards as well.
just went through some old guides and copied this stuff in here. i find it's useful info and hard to find. still adding to this post via edit as well.
edit:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163980&
so much good old stuff. but there are 2 links im interested in that aren't actual links. wave gliding and wing z cancel. anyone know what these are? AP you've been around forever, what are these 2 things?
Luckay4Lyphe
Smash Master
Whatever they were, they probably weren't effective since they died off.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
Fyre found a new mini-AT today. It's pretty useful to.
-Kuro~
-Kuro~