Official Innovative Ideas Thread

[Maharba the Mystic]

it's because of SDI most likely. like the other day i SDI'd falco's spike onto the stage and out of nowhere instead of a tech happening or whatever i was all of a sudden doing a full hop nair.

 

[JellyfishRage]

it just seemed like a cool possibility. there are times that we get smashed upward and theres no di that will save us. was just wondering if it would be possible to use that as a last hope. i know if someone did this to me, id be amazed. if it could be done, it would definitely be a great choice.

 

[sunshade]

How viable is pits runaway game when using tactics such as scrooging, and planking? I enjoyed playing metaknight because I found his run away tactics and planking interesting, and now with his ban I see pit as the next best option however I am unaware of his potential is truly there in this area.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

How viable is pits runaway game when using tactics such as scrooging, and planking? I enjoyed playing metaknight because I found his run away tactics and planking interesting, and now with his ban I see pit as the next best option however I am unaware of his potential is truly there in this area.

trust me this guy will stall you if stalling is legal -has played him in the past-

but to answer your question as much as I know Pit is really good on the ledge and his glide is faster than metaknights iirc so his scrooging game is pretty good.

 

[Kuro~]

He also has a way to stall for at (the very least) ~15 seconds with 0 ledge grabs.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

plus when he is in WOI he has the fastest aerial mobility in the game and if you just keep refreshing it and using jumps and glides to wait the 2 second minimum between WOI usage (other wise you get wing fatigue) you can scrooge and such without every touching a ledge. but when you do decide to touch the ledge, ur planking game is only rivaled by g&w's and your arrows make people approach while you are on the ledge.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How viable is pits runaway game when using tactics such as scrooging, and planking? I enjoyed playing metaknight because I found his run away tactics and planking interesting, and now with his ban I see pit as the next best option however I am unaware of his potential is truly there in this area.

You know the only Pits that have somewhat done this are Danny, Masashi, and Vex. Check out their videos, but to truly answer your question, I don't think there has been a high-placing Pit that has done that. I will start practicing those maneuvers though. I think all the Pits have been too chicken to do it, or the ones that tried didn't have the right strategy or tech skill to perform it well enough. I believe it can be done and it's what can make Pit truly annoying, like top tier annoying, but no one ever does it.

You can just glide back and forth on stages like SV/BF/FD, and if people tell you that you'll exceed the ledge limit, they are liars, because I've tried it personally and I've never gotten more than 35 ledge grabs when 40-50 is the limit. Also, you will need a strong mindset that does not care what people think if you do this because people will call you, "cheap" "gay" "not skilled" "a n00b" whatever they can say to discredit your camping tactics. Just do it, and play to win bro!

Also lgl doesn't matter if you KO them before time is up. You could have 500 lgl, but as long as you KO them before "1" it doesn't matter, you win. Be cheap as possible and learn the timing of up-b, when you need to get back on the ledge, airdodging when trying to get back on stage. Gliding under the stage, arrow camping from the ledge, up-b refreshing, air camping, and observing there actions while you're on the ledge. Practice all those along with the videos, especially the Vex videos vs IC players. I think there is one Vex vs Banana IC or something, check it out on youtube.

He also has a way to stall for at (the very least) ~15 seconds with 0 ledge grabs.

Explain please

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Except when it's obvious Pit has exceeded the lgl then the opponent could time themself out just to win by the ruling.

 

[sunshade]

Thanks for the suggestions I will keep them in mind next chance I get to practice. I first however need to go about fixing my nintendo, for whatever reason it won't play brawl (and its not the brawl disc, I have tried other discs that work on other wiis :/).

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ladies and gentlemen, how to use the Wing Shine, by example of scenario. this one will consist of pit camping TL on battle on battle field at mid-long range with TL using one of the side platforms to help his camp:



you are punishing what you can with arrows. but he has more projectiles out. how do you handle these projectiles? usually just power shielding all 3 or trying to use a reflector. but that takes forever and keeps it at stale mate. however if you just power shield or reflector only the arrow and boomer-and and shield the bomb, this is where you can Wing Shine.

Wing Shine Process

k, so ps the arrow, ps the bomb, shield the bomb. as soon as the bomb bounces off your shield, wing dash either in place, forward, or backward to launch the bomb back at him at different trajectories and make your own item/arrow/move based frame traps. Wing Shine/dash and combo bomb into pivot bair out of wings is a good frame trap you can do. there's a bunch of **** this lets you do. and it eventually forces TL to approach.


next example. pit vs snake, SV.

he's camping nades at you, platform just got behind you. your Wing Shining nades back at him and shooting him with arrows and he try's to mix it up with nade momentum cancel trick. notice that, get rid of it, and as the platform is passing towards him, bait it and if he does it it should land on the platform and keep going to pressure him. it's really easy and super effective in camping snake.


and that my pit's is Wing Shining. i never see anyone else do it in vids so im guessing no one else does it when they could.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Wait you wind dash after a bomb/nade hits your shield and it bounces back? Sounds cool doe

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

yep, and since you can wing dash out of shield because it involves jumping, you can literally just hold shield while you wing dash and when you cancel into landing your shield will come immediately. pretty solid tech against these types of projectiles. damn i was really high when i posted all that, im surprised there wasn't really to much spelling issues

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I'll test it out on wifi later today and if useful I'll probably try it out in tourney in a few days.

 

[Kuro~]

You know the only Pits that have somewhat done this are Danny, Masashi, and Vex. Check out their videos, but to truly answer your question, I don't think there has been a high-placing Pit that has done that. I will start practicing those maneuvers though. I think all the Pits have been too chicken to do it, or the ones that tried didn't have the right strategy or tech skill to perform it well enough. I believe it can be done and it's what can make Pit truly annoying, like top tier annoying, but no one ever does it.

You can just glide back and forth on stages like SV/BF/FD, and if people tell you that you'll exceed the ledge limit, they are liars, because I've tried it personally and I've never gotten more than 35 ledge grabs when 40-50 is the limit. Also, you will need a strong mindset that does not care what people think if you do this because people will call you, "cheap" "gay" "not skilled" "a n00b" whatever they can say to discredit your camping tactics. Just do it, and play to win bro!

Also lgl doesn't matter if you KO them before time is up. You could have 500 lgl, but as long as you KO them before "1" it doesn't matter, you win. Be cheap as possible and learn the timing of up-b, when you need to get back on the ledge, airdodging when trying to get back on stage. Gliding under the stage, arrow camping from the ledge, up-b refreshing, air camping, and observing there actions while you're on the ledge. Practice all those along with the videos, especially the Vex videos vs IC players. I think there is one Vex vs Banana IC or something, check it out on youtube.



Explain please

Assuming FD (as it limits this the most):

Grounded wing refresh
Fly all the way up and into the the corner of whichever your closest to.
Stall jump a few times and depending on the character judge how much you can wait between jumps and whether u need to glide earlier than if it's someone like mario(don't use last jump)
On the jump b4 the last jump initiate glide and glide all the way to other upper corner

If your on bf brinstar rainbow etc...initiate WoI dive bomb to the top platform and shoot back up with the momentum and you have all jumps and glide again.

I've not touched the ground for 45 seconds b4. It's fun lol. Kinda have to anticipate their movements. The best part is that it causes greed. So you can use it as mindgame and ff bair out of the woi and it won't matter if u get hit/trade cuz you'll have all your jumps and glide and woi

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

That wing of icarus bouncing bombs thing maharba suggested turned out to have some pretty okay results.

Been thinking about this one for a while and in theory it should work but it's risky.:

Wing refresh chase someone > footstool > woi dive bomb > bair/fair/dair

I'm pretty sure canceling a footstool with woi will make Pit fast enough to catch someone in that falling animation where they can't do anything. With the right timing and movements we could learn to get a sweetspot bair out of it. Using this tech one would most likely be offstage so it could be a GUARANTEED sweet spot bair offstage if mastered which can lead to some pretty early kills.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

if you dive bomb out of wingstool offstage and bair someone you will die from falling to your doom due to using both WOIs. now if the stage is under you or you are high up that is another story. will try this out next time i can play people

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I know, I'd only use this if I was really high like in the top corner or if I was a stock ahead about to die anyway if I were to use this.

 

[Krystedez]

I've been using WoI dive bombing for a while to save myself, more than attack, but in the falco matchup it's handy. I actually discussed this back there for saving our even matchup with the bird. Kuro may remember.

 

[Kuro~]

I use it on battlefield all the time It's so op on that stage.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJloQY-Ro74&feature=youtu.be

the second vid will be edited in shortly

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

the hell with editing

http://youtu.be/uHhtIvn-JRM

 

[Jimmyfosho]

shoutouts to luckay

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

http://youtu.be/o1uBXFKCS7k

improved tutorial. covers everything in here except PTZRs character specific list stuff because that's too much for one night.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Good stuff, could've edited it to make it shorter than 40 minutes though lmao. I actually relearned some stuff thanks to this vid.

 

[DeLux]

Get a capture card sweet lord >_>

 

[Kuro~]

Lol delux what made you float around here?o.0

 

[DeLux]

I'm playing ZSS/Pit/TL now that MK is banned and it doesn't matter who I play anymore I'll just take 2nd or third to MJG/Fino (MJG winning, Fino and I will be going 50/50 to the end of time since we are roommates).

Might as well have fun

 

[Kuro~]

Why?Did your region's top player(s) use mk and quit or something?

Do you not plan on regional/nationals?

Get some vids of your pit next time your at a tourney

 

[DeLux]

My Pit is more free than my TL which is more free than my ZSS which is more free than my MK which is more free than my Lucas which is more free than my ICs lol

Not even worth the time yet imo

 

[Kuro~]

Lol k. Just curious, are you trying to actually like...do well with zss,tink,pit,etc. or are u in troll mode now like half the community.

 

[DeLux]

What is "doing well" with Pit? (I ask honestly because I'm used to playing ICs where it's win or go home mentality)

I intend to come in top 3 locally with Pit (plus those other characters)

 

[Kuro~]

What is "doing well" with Pit? (I ask honestly because I'm used to playing ICs where it's win or go home mentality)

I intend to come in top 3 locally with Pit (plus those other characters)

I mean like...some people play this game casually and are great at it cuz of the work they put in the past. Others local scenes have decreased in both quality,quantity, and variety of competition which causes some ppl not to care and just f-around. I was just curious if you dropping ICs was an indication of you not caring about competitive brawl? And more so playing to have fun.(not to say you can't do both at the same time but you get what i mean. There is usually a distinct difference in time/effort put in while doing both). And whether you only care about the local level or are trying to become a recognized national level player with those new characters.

 

[DeLux]

I'm pursuing a huge reboot of the KC scene in conjunction with the MK Ban. It involves local tournaments and large amounts of mentoring on my part in order to bridge the gap between casual and competitive play.

In order to effectively do this, I need to not play ICs or MK (my ideal secondary). It's really easy for a new person to point to the MU Chart and say, "You're only good because you're using MK and are winning because he has no disadvantaged matchups so he's unbeatable," even though it takes sheer amounts of will and skill to play MK in today's metagame. It's also really easy for a new person to point to me and say, "You only win because of chain grabs," even though I'm the Patron Saint of Dropped CGs and win games based on my grab setup work and technical precision on read.

At the same time, a couple of the new guys are playing TL and Pit (as well as a few other top tier characters). I feel like my co-mentor would be more inclined to secondary high tiers to help them come along because he's more in the play to win mentality and him developing a strong high tier secondary (like Marth) would be to his benefit. For myself however, I'm just going to learn the character along with them so we can bounce ideas off each other and they'll have a companion in the process. I feel like I can't effectively mentor them if I don't live their triumphs and failures with them. The only way to do that is to play the character.

I intend to use my connections I've made with the best of the characters I am picking up to learn from the best and help filter that knowledge to the other person that is also maining that character. At the same time, I can learn from their failures and success on the more fundamental level and apply it to my game since I already have preconceived notions of how to play from maining ICs and Lucas for awhile.

 

[Kuro~]

I'm pursuing a huge reboot of the KC scene in conjunction with the MK Ban. It involves local tournaments and large amounts of mentoring on my part in order to bridge the gap between casual and competitive play.

In order to effectively do this, I need to not play ICs or MK (my ideal secondary). It's really easy for a new person to point to the MU Chart and say, "You're only good because you're using MK and are winning because he has no disadvantaged matchups so he's unbeatable," even though it takes sheer amounts of will and skill to play MK in today's metagame. It's also really easy for a new person to point to me and say, "You only win because of chain grabs," even though I'm the Patron Saint of Dropped CGs and win games based on my grab setup work and technical precision on read.

At the same time, a couple of the new guys are playing TL and Pit (as well as a few other top tier characters). I feel like my co-mentor would be more inclined to secondary high tiers to help them come along because he's more in the play to win mentality and him developing a strong high tier secondary (like Marth) would be to his benefit. For myself however, I'm just going to learn the character along with them so we can bounce ideas off each other and they'll have a companion in the process. I feel like I can't effectively mentor them if I don't live their triumphs and failures with them. The only way to do that is to play the character.

I intend to use my connections I've made with the best of the characters I am picking up to learn from the best and help filter that knowledge to the other person that is also maining that character. At the same time, I can learn from their failures and success on the more fundamental level and apply it to my game since I already have preconceived notions of how to play from maining ICs and Lucas for awhile.

Interesting. Thanks for obliging me! lol

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Yo Delux, I'm glad you are using Pit now. Thank you for responding to my PM, it was great, and I feel that Pit harder to get good w/ technically, but if you can do that and have amazing reads, you can do really well w/ Pit. I don't think anyone here has gotten there yet, but when we do--Pit can do lots of work.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

@deleux

getting top 10 at a 30+ entrant tourney is unheard of outside of koolaid, krystedez, and kiraflax anymore. you will rock

secondly, since i hear you a god tech skill application (and since krystedez isn't in to getting/posting videos...... ) you picked a great character to study because one thing that none of us here are amazing at (outside of the europeans) is controlling arrows going in different directions to make frame traps. there are so many different possibilities of areas that can be covered from desynched arrow looping (arrows shot at different times going in a different direction each while you are looping the control stick) that it would be great if someone good at frame stuff like you could solve.

 

[DeLux]

I'll definitely look into it. Projectile chasing (especially with ICs, but to a lesser extent the ZSS and Mario that I play) is like my player specialty.

You guys are going to just have to bear with me for a couple months as I get the basics down first before I start looking into crazy things.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

we got you lux. want me to link you to some arrow loop threads that will help you study dat shiz later on?

 

[DeLux]

Put it in our PM string that you stopped responding to

We didn't even get like 1/5th of the way through the stuff we could talk about and the PM project died

 

[Admiral Pit]

I can help with Pit stuff too, even though I'm online only, but even so, there's always a chance that I may have some hidden potential or secrets that can prove to be useful, even though I don't like helping much now-a-days.