Official Innovative Ideas Thread

[Maharba the Mystic]

.... that's epic, we can cancell ROB's dsmash with it. hot!

 

[Blubolouis]

But, do we have, like, frame advantage (or disadvantage Oo)? Or is it just a nice way to save our shield and surprise the opponent?

 

[Kuro~]

.... that's epic, we can cancell ROB's dsmash with it. hot!

Yup, there's a bunch of other findings as well. And as far as frame advantage goes i believe it is neutral advantage. I'd like to see frame testing on it just to be sure. Meaning we could jab, jump, roll, grab,fsmash,dsmash. I'll test frame stuff asap.

 

[fUddO]

Luckay, can you update the first page with some of the new ATs? I want to learn some, but finding the whole progression through the thread is tough stuff.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you aren't ready yet^^

 

[Abel1994]

one of the best brawl taunts.


The fight is on

 

[Xcallion]

Hail Palutena, victory is ours!
Does anyone even listen to the end quotes anymore? If we arent recording we usually spam start until the 3-2-1 countdown again.

 

[Zulo]

I think I may have just found a use for skid canceling. You know how if you pivot right before you jump while running you'll jump facing the opposite direction? Using this and doing a jc WoI, we can do a grounded reverse WoI. I tried this with skid canceling, and it still works. So we can fall off facing the ledge, and follow up with an instant retreating fair (or nair/uair). I'm still working on getting it down now, but I've been able to do it successfully so I know it's possible. I can see this being useful coming off of platforms especially. Since I'm not sure the fair hitbox would come out above the stage.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I tested a reverse skid cancel and I couldn't do it at first. You bringing it up made me test it again while playing wifi and I realized we could jump-cancel a woi from a reverse skid cancel. This might work great for bair kills at that angle.

Only about a month late zulo, lol.

 

[Zulo]

... well it works with fair too. :I /shot

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

don't forget luckay that i pointed it out at that..... about a month ago with the same observations. ima so sorry zulo, but we done did alreadsy think of dat

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright, either kuro where is the list of findings on WOI OOS or luckay where is the vid? impatience is something i need to work on

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Me -
Kuro -

 

[Kuro~]

So does that mean you want me to make a list while we wait for video?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

yes! i wanna know how i can start applying this because quite frankly, it'd be good to start practicing this on watever it works on (esecially against snake, diddy, tl, and MK for me anyways) so that i can hopefully last a little longer if i go to sync's house today.

 

[Kuro~]

K i'll do it after fest tonight. And i'll need luckay to remind me of a few lol.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

^^^^^

im officially nagging at you kuro

 

[Abel1994]

^Nagger.






I need to get a life.

 

[Kuro~]

/feelsnagged. Haha but seriously. I'm not doing much of anything till after graduation and that's on june second.

tl;dr wait till after june 2nd

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

just gotta say that WOI oos rocks, and that wing dashing oos is amaaaazing for retreat. since you can hold shield while you do it so that when you cancel it you are shielding. sooooo gooood. near broken in terms of movement

also,
kuro

it's june 9th buddy

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWH-py8VENU&feature=player_embedded

Was recently thinking about this too. Could turn our jab>dsmash/fsmash into a true combo

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

huh. that's really good stuff to know

 

[JellyfishRage]

This is the best thread ive seen here. Nice discoveries! lovin the katana combos, if lucky, or against a slow brawler you can get this combo out of down throw, i tried it a couple times today and got it on some low level computers. i have a couple more 2v1 zero deaths ill be uploading soon.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

so guys, guess wat, maharba just went in again on some new pit stuff.

check it out, while it's not frame tested yet, i figured out on accident (and then did testing) that on a grounded opponent, we can footstool>wings>dair cancel> grab, jab, fsmash, dsmash, utilt, dtilt, dash attack, usmash, and AR. in other words, we can do any grounded move on an opponent out of a footstool bar ftilt. think about it, what other character in this game can say they can do footstool to fsmash true combo? not only that, we could use this as a legit kill set up out of a wing refresh chase since it is actually easier (imo) to do than the footstool>wings>crit bair combo since you don't have to do that crazy pivot up back input, it's just wings> down on both sticks> stuff.

anyone else gonna try and implement this now? i know i will be

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Somewhat skeptical, but worth looking into. Nice find!

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Soooooooooo after testing all this morning, I think Maharba may have made a nice find. It is very technical and the button inputs have to be rapid fast, but I think a Foot Stool Canceled (FSC? or whatever he wants to call it) fsmash or dsmash MIGHT be guarenteed. I don't have frame data, but it looks like we have a frame or 2 advantage which is enough. Using dsmash right afterwards is the easiest/fastest way to punish with since all you have to do is mash the c stick down once more after wing canceling, but fsmash can still be possible.

One thing is that this new AT cannot be executed on any character near or above Pit's own height. So a list of ones that we CAN use it on are:




















The ones we CAN'T do this too are too tall:














(He may be short, but we footstool the bulb on his back)





We get the full lag of dair if we try it on any of those guys.



Also, while testing this on everyone, I found a few easter eggs in the mix.

It seems that , , and have peculiar footstool frames in which their hurtboxes are still vulnerable. So we can actually dair out of a footstool on these 3 characters which is hilarious because at 0% we can footstool > dair > footstool > woi > fair/bair lock > charged fsmash. Guarenteed 40-50%!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

damn luckay, you went in on this!

also, for the one's that are to tall to do the cancel, while the input is kinda hard there is always footstool>wing>bair combo so that in itself is hot.

and for the sake of giving it a name we can call it Footstool Canceling because that is simple and to the point

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I was gonna make a seperate vid, but I might as well just put footage into a the big Pit vid that I keep putting off.

 

[Blubolouis]

Nice find, although I don't think I'll EVER use this, it requires both speed and an amazing reaction time, as well as knowing you'll even get a grounded footstool

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

You could empty short hop over someones shield to mindgame them into dropping it, then double jump for the footstool. We have 6 frames to react to a shield drop.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8vUpkV2mak&feature=related

how do we do super slide stepping at 36 seconds?

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

When you skid and pivot into running the other direction you can buffer a forward smash in the original direction you were running before your second direction's running frames start and you will slide backwards while using forward smash. It's relatively easy and not really beneficial for Pit because people get out of fsmash like 90% of the time if you hit with the first slash and slide away from them for the second slash.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ya but the second hit of fsmash knocks MK out of nado. if you use this and slide back towards the edge he will either get hit by fsmash or knock you onto the ledge (if you smash DI on connection down>out) so it seems like a useful thing i've never noticed. it seems just like a good fake out to hit people with the knockback hit of fsmash. thx for telling me the input

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

soooooooooo after testing all this morning, i think maharba may have made a nice find. It is very technical and the button inputs have to be rapid fast, but i think a foot stool canceled (fsc? Or whatever he wants to call it) fsmash or dsmash might be guarenteed. I don't have frame data, but it looks like we have a frame or 2 advantage which is enough. Using dsmash right afterwards is the easiest/fastest way to punish with since all you have to do is mash the c stick down once more after wing canceling, but fsmash can still be possible.

One thing is that this new at cannot be executed on any character near or above pit's own height. So a list of ones that we can use it on are:




















The ones we can't do this too are too tall:














(he may be short, but we footstool the bulb on his back)





We get the full lag of dair if we try it on any of those guys.



Also, while testing this on everyone, i found a few easter eggs in the mix.

It seems that , , and Have peculiar footstool frames in which their hurtboxes are still vulnerable. So we can actually dair out of a footstool on these 3 characters which is hilarious because at 0% we can footstool > dair > footstool > woi > fair/bair lock > charged fsmash. Guarenteed 40-50%!

well i was gonna wait until ptzr answered my frame data question but at any rate ill throw out my idea.

Okay so we all know any character jump cancel up b oos. With pit this is viewed as near useless. But i had an idea that im gonna try and start implementing. Let me explain

okay. Woi cancells almost every move in this game if timed near perfectly. It cancells anything from snake's utilt to hits of mk's nado.

Now because of this, im thinking for moves like snake's ftilt, mk's nado, and other moves where we can pretty much guarentee that another hit is gonna follow, i think we can wing cancell moves out of shield. I think this could prove to be really important as it saves our shield, and if it works the way im thinking, we could essentially hold shield and keep wing cancelling stuff like nado because after the wing cancell the next hit would be power shielded and then our shield would be up meaning we could wing cancell oos again, thus basically allowing us to either cancell or power shield nado indefinately.

Think about it, if this works, we don't have to worry as much about our shield getting low when we are getting shield pressured. For example, we shield the first hit of snake's ftilt, we can pretty much guarentee they are gonna use the second hit a lot of the time to knock us farther away so we can't punish them. However, if we wing cancell the second hit oos, then we are still close enough to punish with like jab or dtilt or dsmash or at kill percents fsmash.

So what do you guys think? Does anyone else even get what im talking about because i had a hard time wording this. Do you see potential? I sure do

yes! Those few tidbits of info are excellent man! And i guess it's just me who doesn't have trouble doing it without tap jump. Also i assume pc is platform cancell right? Also, the wind push will cancell out various projectiles. Hmmm you know what, i never though about it but against projectiles we could also wing dash out of shield by not cancelling the jump with woi until we are at wing dash height just of the ground. This is a great substitute to rolling now that i think about it! Sooooo much less punishable! This is one hell of a day for ideas my friends

i tested a reverse skid cancel and i couldn't do it at first. You bringing it up made me test it again while playing wifi and i realized we could jump-cancel a woi from a reverse skid cancel. This might work great for bair kills at that angle.

yesterday, i discovered cool combo and it was something i never seen before. As your gliding towards the stage, you glide attack on a character while landing on a platform. After that, you dtilt spike the character while that character is in the air on a platform after a glide attack. In other words, you him them with a dtilt and it's all a matter of a tech chase. I wondered if anyone else had discovered this cool combo.

I'll have the video up soon for those who are interested!

okay. If that's all you know man let me enlighten you on all the true combos i can think of before i got to bed here real quick.

note that against g&w marth, mario, and mk they can up b out of some of these. Other combos are character weight class specific. But for the most part, these are general true combos

out of fast falled sour spot bair:
Fsmash
utilt
dash attack
ar

out of sourspot bair in the air:
Crit bair

out of dthrow on certain characters/percents:
Utilt
rising nair

out of arrow at specific distances:
Dash attack
utilt (here is how this one works. On certain characters you can stand/fall to where you are "inside" them. When that close you can hit them while they are standing with an upward aimed arrow. From here you buffer utilt)

utilt can true combo into itself against certain fast fallers like the spacies and link at low percents based on di, placement, and percent.

Out of looped arrow:
Any attack besides ftilt (for the most part)
ar
footstool
wingstool>crit bair (this is true. But also near ****ing impossible. Never pulled off in tourney)

out of back throw:
Buffered dash attack. Low percents only

if i have stated any falsehoods here someone please let me know but to my knowledge these are all true combos on at least some characters

i hyphen smash out of fast falled sour spot bair most of the time and it usually works

i also think glide attack cancel into an utilt is a true combo. Not all 3 hit of utilt connect, but if you hit them with a glide attack and it cancels into the ground an utilt can combo out of it at low percents.

I've been wanting to make a new video for this thread, but school johns and pokemon johns. Spring break is next week though so expect something new soon.

here you go luckay. I just went through this whole damn thread and gathered all the sctattered ats and combos in it for you

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i got another good find for you guys. super slide tilting and dmsmashing and grabbing. ill hopefully be able to show yall how cool it is and such. lets just say our character still isn't completely figured out

 

[Kuro~]

Must say yall are puttin in work in this thread...

 

[Xcallion]

not me. i have nothing to contribute, so i'm just carefully reading everything :D

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

so you know how he said how to do that super slide step? if you do the right inputs you can do a super slide utilt, charged or uncharged dsmash, long *** sliding stand grab, dtilt, jab ALL GOING TOWARDS THE OPPONENT! and on accident i found you may be able to do ftilt with like a crouch cancel or something i only did that once. but the dsmash and the, well, all of that is useful really. oh and a good thing to do with the super slide fsmash i found out is run through someone like your gonna pivot grab, but then slide back charging fsmash. it's also a good read tactic when people are getting off the ledge with a roll or an air dodge or something.

 

[Zulo]

It's also possible to do the sliding fsmash toward an opponent. I don't use a c-stick, so I don't know if there's an easier way with that. But you just have to return the analog stick to neutral position after the pivot (after initiating it, you don't have to hold down the opposite direction during the pivot) then fsmash forward. You have to be kinda quick but it's possible.

Edit: Actually, you might not be sliding, but it's definitely a bigger boost than a stutter step. Nevermind it's just got weird timing, you can slide.

 

[Kuro~]

Stickied this. It's way too full of good info to ever ever disappear. I also plan on adding it to the omniguide originally done by purple.