Official Frame/Hitbox Data Repository

[phi1ny3]

yay got some free time this week, will try to wrap up my char -__- lol

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Done with ROB.

Finally.

God **** I am lazy.

Imo someone should be a dear a check it for me?

Starting on TL.

 

[phi1ny3]

Done With Lucario, although I'll need to double check some stuff.

(will probably need help with this).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Finished ZSS. Except Nair. **** yo Nair.

I also took the liberty of adding damages for ROB and TL.

 

[KayLo!]

dkajsldkjqlwkdjqd

Kata copied some of my frame data wrong when he made the Zelda research thread OP.
& that's what I copied from when I put numbers into the spreadsheet.

So now I have to double check EVERYTHING all over again. I should've searched back for my original posts in the first place..... -______________-

EDIT: K, in part thanks to Yika, I got a lot more done on Zelda. Still need help with multihit moves though.

 

[KayLo!]

Okay, Zelda's all done. Someone double check for me please!

The one thing I wasn't sure about was her dair. The first hitbox out is the sweetspot, but a frame later, it seems like two other sourspot hitboxes are added on top of it. I'm not sure if the original hitbox simply changed, but since they have different collision/bone IDs and the first was never terminated, I figured the second two got added on top of the first.

Other than that, I think everything's right.

EDIT: For some reason, when I went to test her aerials in frame advance, Zelda's nair and uair have FAFs one frame sooner than what OSA2/PSA say they should be. Any reason for that.....? Nvm, A2 helped me on this part.

EDIT #2: Also filled in the rest of Pikachu's sheet except for the Jab100 stuff. Don't understand it, so Prime said he'd look into that.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I think it'd be a good idea to include a "priority" column in the spreadsheets. It's not hard to figure it out; check the hitbox flags, and if the second digit is a 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7, then list transcendent priority. If the second digit it an 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, or F, list clash.

Whether a hitbox clashes or transcends is determined by bit 5 after you change the hex in the flag to binary. If bit 5 is a 1, it clashes. If it's a 0, it transcends. Hex values of 0-7 start with a 0 in binary, and since each hex value is "worth" 4 bits in binary, the first bit of the second hex is going to be the fifth one in the binary sequence.

 

[Yikarur]

why isn't "cooldown" in the frame data chart at all? this is sooo important.

I really dislike the chart.

because he have "hitbox duration" instead of frame data like "12-14"
Duration is useful yes, but to write down the exact frames are important too,
Duration is easier calculated then the exact frames.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Cool down is the time after the hitbox duration and before the FAF. It's a derived number therefore unnecessary for the spreadsheets.

 

[Yikarur]

but it would be better if we write hitboxes down like "3-5" instead of "3" "3"
with 3-5 we can automatically translate the cooldown just by one look as example, it's much better imo :/

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So does the last frame of the hitbox occur on 5 or 6?

 

[Yikarur]

if hitframe and duration is "3" then the last frame of hitbox occures on frame 5 (3-5)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

IDK, I think the data we use now is best (and we've already collected it )
Also, how do we not know that it's 2 frame duration if it's from frame 3-5? It could be using the i-system meaning that it hits on frame 3 and 4. It seems too debateable and not as concise as duration.

 

[Yikarur]

writing "-X" to the existed number isn't that hard =P It's just much better imo to write "3-5, 6-8" for different hitboxes then that complicated stuff that says exactly the same but much less detect and understandable.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Maybe in your mind, but in my head it's easier for me to see first hitframe and duration. People think differently =/

 

[SuSa]

Why can't we display both? =\

Hitbox Duration:
3 (frames 3-5)

Because I personally see 3-5 as being far more understandeable... (and to say it's debatable that it lasts 2 frames and is gone on 5 is... well... stupid =P it obviously states that the hitbox exists frame 3, 4, and 5.

:leek:

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Alright SuSa, go in and add all of that to the frame data we already collected.

 

[SuSa]

Will do, but someones going to have to proofread for possible errors.

[Aren't I awesome?]

EDIT:

Check for Bowser, if I did him correctly I'll continue.

:leek:

 

[KayLo!]

Ugh, it's not necessary to have both in the spreadsheets. C'mon now.

Personally, I prefer the current duration method for recording raw data in the spreadsheets; however, in the research threads I'm making for the Pika/Zelda boards, I switched to the more common, user-friendly method of naming each string of hitbox frames.... see: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244279 (only ground moves and aerials are done so far, but you can see what I mean)

The general public isn't going to easily understand the duration method, but I think it's better for research purposes. It's really not that hard to switch the format when you're putting out public info.

 

[SuSa]

Hey.. he's the one whom told me to. (Although I agree with you)

:leek:

 

[T-block]

Agreeing with KayLo

Hey.. he's the one whom told me to. (Although I agree with you)

:leek:

...whom told me to.

...whom

WHYYYYYYYYYYYY

<asf>

 

[KayLo!]

Whom wasn't even the right choice, lol. Or is this some weird obscure internet joke I don't get?

 

[Yikarur]

The general public isn't going to easily understand the duration method, but I think it's better for research purposes. It's really not that hard to switch the format when you're putting out public info.

why do you think it's better for researching?
I feel much better when I see the exactly frames with one look, you can even calculate the duration instantly with one look. So the duration data isn't great at all imo.

Susa it's a sheet so you don't have to fill in information that is already clear to the reader.
like

3 (frame 6-8)
you just need to right 3 (6-8)
and
3 (frames 10-13 first hit, 20-23 second hit) you can shorten it to "3 (10-12), 3 (20-22) [I corrected here a small mistake too]
actually it's really not necessary to state duration imo.
Hitframe(s)

10-12, 20-22 says EVERYTHING we need and it's easy to calculate duration out of it (subtraction +1, if you are good in mental arithmetic, you should be able to do this do this by one look)

I would prefer to to include frame advantage on block too.
I know a lot of people already wrote "you can calculate it easily" but if he have it in one look I would be better.
I say this because Luxor said in the frame compilation thread "this thread is unnecessary because the SmashLab will release officical frame data" but the threads are much more useful then our spreedsheet if we doesn't include important stuff that everyone wants to know in it.

 

[KayLo!]

I was under the impression that the spreadsheet is a resource for raw data only. Raw data doesn't include things like block advantage and hitlag because you can figure those things out on your own with the use of formulas + the info from the spreadsheets.

That also goes for listing hitboxes in the format of "x - x". That's inferred information, not raw, barebones data.

When you make threads or whatever for the boards or for your own records, sure..... run the numbers through formulas and figure out hitlag and shield stun and all that. I plan on posting the complete research threads I'm writing back here as resources once they're done. But I don't think all that has a place in the spreadsheets.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

What KayLo! said.

And I didn't think SuSa would actually do it.

And I can't believe he called him whom.

It's attrocious

And I can't believe it's not butter.

And I'm typing in double space again.

lmao

 

[Yikarur]

Raw Data is not what the community want, Luxor said "this thread is unnecessary because of the SmashLab project" but if you want it like that, then he was wrong.
"3-5" is still better then "3" "3" =P

 

[KayLo!]

Which is why when you or whoever make threads for the community, the numbers will probably be converted into the usual format...... like in the link I posted (if you missed it before: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244279).

I guess it's just a difference of opinion/preference. I think it's better for the spreadsheets to stay as they are so that we have simple, raw data to draw from.

 

[Yikarur]

but in which way is 3-5 less raw data then 3 3?
it's easier to derive duration with 3-5 then to derive the exact hitbox frames from first hit on and duration.

 

[KayLo!]

Because in OSA2/PSA, the format for hitbox length is duration (sync timers).

Like I said, that's just how I see it. It also majorly cuts down on how much space you take up writing **** down, but to each his own. Everyone's already written it the duration way, so there's no point in spending a bunch of time converting it to the other way.

Personally, after spending days writing hitboxes down both ways, I kind of prefer the way we have it in the spreadsheets. It's easier to look at a move and get an idea of how it acts in-game with the duration format, especially for moves with a lot of multiple hits. I look at Zelda's nair and go, "okay, it has 5 hits, each lasting 2 frames" rather than "okay, it has .... (pause to count through all the sets of numbers) .... 5 hits, and these hits are on this-to-this, this-to-this, this-to-this....."

It's also more informative for multihit moves where some of the hits are longer in duration than others (Pika bair for example).

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So it really comes down to this:

We have two systems that both function to have the same purpose and have complete and total functionality for both.
We have people that prefer reading "3, 3" and people who prefer "3-5"
We already have the data formatted as "3, 3"
Right now there are two options:
1) Leave it be and not waste man hours
2) Change and convert to "3-5" while using man hours to please a few others

As it seems clear to me, we should go with option one and wait until we release all official frame data.

That said, phase 1 of the frame data is nearly complete. Only 2 more phases to go! (dodges and other "nearly" universal moves and specials)

 

[Yikarur]

we could also let duration stay and just add "-X" to "hitframe(s)" because 3-5 are hitframes. 3 is just the first hitframe! =P

and in OSA/PSA is often just hitbox start-up and hitbox end not duration.

 

[KayLo!]

Not for multihit moves. =X

But whatevs, what rPSI said. It's fine the way it is.... there's no reason to change it. You can make your own personal spreadsheet if it's that important. (I don't mean that to sound *****y..... that's what I do when I don't like how things are formatted.)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yikarur, there's two different types of timers.
Asynch gives where each is and Synch gives the duration. We had to make a decision so I went with going with the duration/Synch method where you convert the Asynch.

 

[Yikarur]

Multihitmoves are exceptions.
it would be just so much easier and more practicable when the hitframes are completly filled out =/
| 3-5 | 3 |

like that. That would be awesome. The only disadvantage would be the space for multihit moves.

 

[KayLo!]

Having both is just.... extra work and data for no reason.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Hey.. he's the one whom told me to. (Although I agree with you)

:leek:

you ended in a preposition and used the wrong 'who'

at least you used the apostrophe right

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Whom is used when "who/other indicative pronouns" isn't/aren't the subject of the sentence.

"To whom does this book belong to?"

In SuSa's case he was using "he" as the subject, therefore "whom" was used unnecessarily.

Also SuSa please don't touch Toon Link's, ROB's, or Zero Suit Samus' sheets.

What SuSa and Yikarur are suggesting is that we spoon-feed the public. It's simple elementary level math to find out cool down: Subtract the last endframe for the last hitbox from the FAF. Or w/e. Not really going to read through all the arguments.

The way I record stuff for multihit moves is separate hitframes, durations, damages, etc. with comas for multihits, add double-hyphens for changing hitbox values, and add slashes to note differences in hitboxes in single hits.

I.e. ROB's FSmash is one hit, with three hitboxes. Damages are listed 14 / 13 / 12.

ROB's Fair changes from 10% to 6%; I filled in 10--6

ROB's UTilt has two distinct "hitgroups". I filled in 4, 6 for the hitframes, 5, 3 for the durations, etc.

Also for multihit moves with repeated hitboxes like DSmash I just add a multiplier in parenthesis. Durations 1(x4), 1. However, since the hitboxes have different hitframes, I still listed 3, 5, 7, 9, 13. I think my method does a good job of keeping things tidy and indicating important hitbox properties.

 

[SuSa]

you ended in a preposition and used the wrong 'who'.

at least you used the apostrophe right.

Want to get all perfectionist on me?

Where is your punctuation and capitilization?

Whom is used when "who/other indicative pronouns" isn't/aren't the subject of the sentence.

"To whom does this book belong to?"

In SuSa's case he was using "he" as the subject, therefore "whom" was used unnecessarily.

Also SuSa please don't touch Toon Link's, ROB's, or Zero Suit Samus' sheets.

What SuSa and Yikarur are suggesting is that we spoon-feed the public. It's simple elementary level math to find out cool down: Subtract the last endframe for the last hitbox from the FAF. Or w/e. Not really going to read through all the arguments.

The way I record stuff for multihit moves is separate hitframes, durations, damages, etc. with comas for multihits, add double-hyphens for changing hitbox values, and add slashes to note differences in hitboxes in single hits.

I.e. ROB's FSmash is one hit, with three hitboxes. Damages are listed 14 / 13 / 12.

ROB's Fair changes from 10% to 6%; I filled in 10--6

ROB's UTilt has two distinct "hitgroups". I filled in 4, 6 for the hitframes, 5, 3 for the durations, etc.

Also for multihit moves with repeated hitboxes like DSmash I just add a multiplier in parenthesis. Durations 1(x4), 1. However, since the hitboxes have different hitframes, I still listed 3, 5, 7, 9, 13. I think my method does a good job of keeping things tidy and indicating important properties of hitboxes.

If nobody had told me how to read duration (EG: I wasn't part of SL) and I didn't have the mental capacity I do (EG: I'm the general public) I would need to be spoonfed.

Luckily it's a simple concept to understand. For us.

You have to remember who this information is going to end up being for.

:leek:

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Um, it isn't too hard to add a small little preface giving simple explanations. I have some faith in the intelligence of the layman.

And what else could the frames after the term "Duration" in a hitbox-focused thread be interpreted as? Lol.

 

[SuSa]

I have 0 faith in the intelligence of the layman.

But I guess that comes from being ex-staff, an admin/moderator on other forums, and at one time customer support.

Dear god... if I had to return to those dark days of horror.....

Hitbox comes out: 4
Duration: 3
4-7, (4, 5, 6, 7) = immediate thought
4-6 = Because I know how it's done and can understand it.

Also, even knowing this information, I made a mistake when changing Bowser's chart. So even knowing how it's done I ****ed up.

But maybe that's just me.....

:leek: