Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[E-102 Gamma]

Why does using a character's neutral B move in the air sometimes randomly turn the character around? I've had this happen with multiple characters (including Fox, Captain Falcon, and I believe Bowser as well).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its not "random". You turn to the last direction you pressed. Facing right, jump, press left (release), press b. On some older controllers, the control stick may be worn in a way that its hard to consistently control your direction (sometimes I laser the wrong way with falco, for example)

 

[Ripple]

does anyone know on what frames. mario can walljump during up-b?

 

[Arcadia157]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtLC_cYFKTs

I dunno what frames you can do it on, but from the video it says to do it when Mario's facing sideways.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Blake remind me on skype and i'll look into it for you

 

[Bones0]

Does teching in place make it more or less difficult to slide off edges?

How many frames does it take to dash cancel (is WD in place better in every way)?

 

[gravy]

Is there a thread on all platform mechanics? Like shield dropping, isai dropping, etc?

 

[iRobinhoood]

^ To shield drop you can dash into a shield(on a platform) and then quickly move the analog stick down to the next notch and your character should fall right through. I use the Isai drop when missile spamming. As I'm falling on a platform, I'm holding either forward or backward on the analog stick and as soon as I land I move the analog stick to the down position immediately upon landing. Anyone else, correct me if I'm wrong <3

QUESTION:

Today I discovered the trick where you plug in your controller whilst holding either L or R to make it so that you don't light shield but it makes powershielding different. Is this banned/allowed at a tournament scene? Is it really modding?

 

[gravy]

I understand the basics of it, but I was wondering if there was a really in depth thread somewhere on it, perhaps one by Magus.

 

[Ripple]

Today I discovered the trick where you plug in your controller whilst holding either L or R to make it so that you don't light shield but it makes powershielding different. Is this banned/allowed at a tournament scene? Is it really modding?

it is fully allowed

 

[iRobinhoood]

it is fully allowed

Thanks

 

[Tomatoes]

I'm really new to practicing all the advanced things in SSBM, so right now I'm trying to focus mainly on getting a short-hop to come out successfully every time I want it and L-cancelling, and then wavedashing a bit if I get bored of those. Are these good first things to focus on?

Also, I lose to a Peach main 90% with Sheik, my favorite character. I can't seem to deal with the constant D-smash/aerial abuse when I miss short hops. Obviously tightening up my short hops will help my approach a bunch (because walking up to her is scary as ****), but are there some general tips for playing against Peach? It just confuses me because when we play any other matchup I will win the large majority of the time, so I know its just my confusion with the matchup and lack of tech skill to approach safely.

 

[KrIsP!]

Ask the Sheik boards, there will already be info on playing peach there and players more experienced in the MU.

 

[Tomatoes]

I did that as well, I was just curious about any sort of general things for playing against Peach, like "watch out for D-smash" and other stuff.

Also, what decides if an attack goes through a shield or not?

 

[KrIsP!]

Shield stabbing happens when your body is exposed from yuor shield, you can angle your shield to protect your hitbox from wherever your opponent is coming from rather than your center.

Basic stuff for peach, someone else can give better insight, recover high when possible. She'll use her turnips to approach, throw it and follow with a nair from behind. I'm not sure what to do as sheik, usually you'd want to go for the edgeguard but with her floating you may want to stay safe, use needles and protect the ledge. She'll recover high but your better to not let her touch the ground, she'll use her floatiness to get to a safe position so don't fall for anything and usmash the air while she avoids it.

Someone like KK can say more than me, might even correct me somewhere and is obviously an experienced sheik. You can check out the peach boards too to see what they want to do against you, reverse engineer the match-up.

 

[standardtoaster]

Dthrow > aerial is important in that matchup too.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik vs Peach is the same as Sheik vs anyone - get them in the air in a comboable position so you can kill-maim them with your absurd punishment

Peach is kind of good at being in the air when she has her float because mobility advantage but Sheik's bair and fair are ******** and beat tons off stuff. Also, f-tilt and u-tilt are fairly insane.

Only real complication to the ground game is that Peach is good at absorbing Sheik's weak moves and counterattacking so the emphasis is on hitting grabs or coaxing her out of position and then grabbing her (unless you get her to jump, in which case read the above). Needles are a good coaxing tool.

 

[gravy]

Is the frame data for waveland forward the same as the data for waveland backwards? For some reason, It feels like when I waveland forward onto platforms, it's slower and shorter, I think it might just be me though :/ Also, if you shield drop through a platform, do you need to press down again to fastfall? This obviously just applies to just normally falling through platforms as well. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

The direction a character is facing isn't relevant to that character's traction, afaik. Just remember that the closer to parallel to the surface you're wavelanding/wavedashing on the D-stick is, the faster and farther you'll waveland/wavedash. Just don't push the D-stick completely parallel to the surface, or you will probably air dodge instead of wavewhatevering.

 

[Ripple]

I've heard about and experience this problem myself. its just a psychological thing with most people. like how lots of people can't moonwalk in both directions

 

[Bones0]

I understand the basics of it, but I was wondering if there was a really in depth thread somewhere on it, perhaps one by Magus.

dphanna's Platforms 101

DashDanceDan's Channel

Use CTRL+F to find these relevant videos:
- platforms2
- hands
- Standing Shield Drop
- Shield drop final

Shai's Thread

Is the frame data for waveland forward the same as the data for waveland backwards? For some reason, It feels like when I waveland forward onto platforms, it's slower and shorter, I think it might just be me though :/ Also, if you shield drop through a platform, do you need to press down again to fastfall? This obviously just applies to just normally falling through platforms as well. Any help would be appreciated.

You need to repress down to FF just like when you drop through a plat regularly. You can test it with Samus on BF's top platform. Not only is Samus nice and floaty so you have a lot of time to reset the stick and input the FF, but she makes a pretty distinct sound when she FFs so you can turn off the game music and listen for the sound to make sure you're getting the FF asap. I think it only gives significant for floaties coming down from the top platform though. I shield drop lasers from the top plat all the time, and with about 10 attempts I couldn't even get a laser to come out after FFing because Falco just falls so fast.

 

[gravy]

Bones that was really helpful, I appreciate it. One more question, since I shield drop by pointing down diagonally, can I just rotate the stick in the downward direction to fastfall or would that not work?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

its just a psychological thing with most people. like how lots of people can't moonwalk in both directions

I don't think it's a psychological thing so much as it's just easier for some people to use their thumb to push the D-stick one direction or series of directions than another. Moving one's thumb to the left is legitimately different than moving one's thumb diagonally up and to the right, for instance.

 

[Bones0]

Bones that was really helpful, I appreciate it. One more question, since I shield drop by pointing down diagonally, can I just rotate the stick in the downward direction to fastfall or would that not work?

No. The FF input only requires a downward tilt on the stick, and as far as I can tell it's either the same or even less distance from neutral than a shield drop (I'd guess less). I don't think anyone knows exactly how shield drops work in terms of how far down you need to press. I can do straight down, but I do them diagonally because it's easier and more reliable. I KNOW for a fact that if you are shai dropping out of a dash and have the stick pressed all the way to the rim that you have to be EXACTLY at 45 below horizontal. Being at 44 or 46 will not cause you to drop through (I have tested them by pausing and holding shield + the angle and then unpausing).

That being said, I don't know what determines the drop if you are moving your stick at an angle further below horizontal without pushing your stick to the rim (like you would for a dtilt or LAftilt; I do standing drops with the LAftilt-type press, trying to go at exactly 45). My theory is that there is a line drawn from the left 45 to the right, and in order to shield drop at any non-full press you need to be directly on that border for at least one frame. That would explain why tilting the stick at 45s is easier than tilting straight down. It essentially slows down your change on the Y-axis, meaning you'll spend more time at each individual height (assuming the speed of the stick movement is the same, which it will be since you should ideally be moving as slow as possible anyway). I can't know any of this for sure because I don't have any way of measuring how far I am pushing my stick other than by my instinctive feeling. If I could test to see how many units down you have to move the stick and compare that to how many units a full press to the rim is, I could figure it out with the Pythagorean theorem (down being a leg, and the full press @45 being the hypotenuse). If I got all this, then I could compare that to the units a stick must move in order to register as a FF input.

It probably wouldn't matter much in the end. You'll just have to get accustomed to how much you have to release the stick before pushing back down for the FF. It didn't feel like I had to full release when I did it, but attempting to keep the stick as low as possible during the shield drop in FF in Training Mode on 1/4th speed would make it a lot easier to tell.

 

[gravy]

Incorporating perfect fast falls into every kind of platform drop seems to be the most challenging thing for me so far. Even just doing something simple like dair onto platform, drop through to fast fall waveland is presenting a pretty legitimate challenge when I try to do it ten times in a row perfectly. This game. Is hard. I have another question though. Is there a speed difference between your first and second jump? Can I get to a platform faster by spamming double jump or is it the same speed to just full hop?

 

[Jockmaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

 

[KirbyKaze]

Mow's told me to learn shield drop

I guess I better get on that

 

[gravy]

It seems to me like the potential applications of shield dropping are amazing. I am definitely going to try to master it. KK, do you have an answer for my jump speed question?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think it's character dependent

Some characters have solid FJs but tiny DJs (Ganon, Roy)

Others have huge FJs and huge DJs (Fox, Falco, Sheik)

Others seem to have solid FJs and higher acceleration DJs (Mario, Luigi)

Others have okay FJs and horrible DJs for fast WLs (Peach)

So it just depends I think

In general I think FJ > WL is probably fastest

TBH though the speed difference isn't really a huge deal so long as you can do one method really reliably without dropping frames or compromising mobility

The ultimate goal is proper movement - whether you learn it by using a generic DJ timing or get the timing for FJ > WL for each relevant platform height (or both, which is what I did) is your call at the end of the day. Just make sure it's seamless so you can use it for its purpose.

 

[gravy]

Do you happen to know what it is for Falcon? The only problem I've noticed is that I learned to do it by spamming double jump, but sometimes I just get hit after I spam that double jump, and then I'm off the stage without a double jump, and as Falcon, that means I'm dead. I think it might be time to switch to just FJ for wavelands. It just doesn't feel as fast :/

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon it's definitely faster to FJ > WL

His DJ is very small with low acceleration IIRC

 

[Ripple]

you also have to consider animations oddly enough. sometimes characters DJs go into a flipping animation and allow perfect wavelands as opposed to some FJs. this is more noticeable with Falcon, samus, and ganondorf.

 

[Bones0]

It's also noticeable with spacies. Honestly, I think most character's DJ accelerates faster than their first jump, so even if a char has a great FH and a short DJ, DJing as soon as you are high enough to reach it is probably faster. Obvious exceptions are all of the characters that can DJC, and maybe Puff or Kirby. That being said, I don't think the tradeoff of potentially being knocked off stage without a jump is worth it most of the time anyways unless you're Samus or Puff.

 

[VoiD-]

How does momentum during knockbark work?

Does horizontal momentum stays constant throughout knockback, and then get cut to 0 after it ends and you go into tumble? Or is there a decay in horizontal speed somewhere? Or something else?

 

[VoiD-]

Anyone know?

Also is there a cap on fallspeed or a terminal velocity during knockback?

EDIT: Nvm both of them, found a thread with the formulas for brawl and I'm assuming they're the same.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How does momentum during knockbark work?

Does horizontal momentum stays constant throughout knockback, and then get cut to 0 after it ends and you go into tumble? Or is there a decay in horizontal speed somewhere? Or something else?

It decelerates related to the forces acting on it. Gravity is simulated by a constant downward force and there is a simulated air resistance too. When you leave hitstun, you maintain your momentum but the direction of the control stick also exerts a force on your character.

The simple answer is that it is not a constant speed. The game has a physics simulator, so essentially it follows a physics textbook. F=MA and the equations based on that.

Hope that helps

 

[Anand]

It decelerates related to the forces acting on it. Gravity is simulated by a constant downward force and there is a simulated air resistance too. When you leave hitstun, you maintain your momentum but the direction of the control stick also exerts a force on your character.

The simple answer is that it is not a constant speed. The game has a physics simulator, so essentially it follows a physics textbook. F=MA and the equations based on that.

Hope that helps

I definitely wouldn't use real-life physics to make inferences about SSBM game mechanics; there are way too many obvious differences.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The characters don't fall at the speed objects fall on earth, but that doesn't mean it doesn't follow the equation F=MA. The game stores a number for each character relating to how much they are effected by gravity.

 

[VoiD-]

Thanks for your reply! Was very helpful

Do you know if the force that slows horizontal momentum (the "simulated air resistance") does so at the same rate during and outside of knockback? Or are their different values for these?

 

[Ripple]

during hitstun horizontal resistance is dependent on a character's weight.

more weight, more resistance.

outside of hitstun the game has different values for each character that determines

A. their max horizontal speed and
B. their acceleration