Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Fortress | Sveet]

There are no frame differences. When the Wii goes into GC mode its hardware operates exactly the same as a GC. All the USB ports and SD card slot are deactivated and the console only runs one of its two cores. There are no framerate increases on any stage including Mute City and Fountain of Dreams in teams.

 

[Bones0]

Can you powershield Bob-ombs? I'm pretty sure I powershielded one the other day (it didn't seem like my shield decayed at all), but it just exploded on contact. Obviously they might just not get reflected, but I'm pretty sure Link/Young Link's bombs can get powershielded back, so idk.

 

[HT F8]

Can you powershield Bob-ombs? I'm pretty sure I powershielded one the other day (it didn't seem like my shield decayed at all), but it just exploded on contact. Obviously they might just not get reflected, but I'm pretty sure Link/Young Link's bombs can get powershielded back, so idk.

Y/Link's bombs can be, and they get reflected. Not sure about Bomb-ombs, though.

Question: how to you toggle your shield? Between light/regular shield, I mean. I totally forgot how.

 

[Pi]

Y/Link's bombs can be, and they get reflected. Not sure about Bomb-ombs, though.

Question: how to you toggle your shield? Between light/regular shield, I mean. I totally forgot how.

you mean in general? how far you press the shoulder button

but i guess you rpobably mean how do you make it go from light to full really quick
either hold one shoulder button lightly, and tap the other
or Z shield & tap r/l

 

[HT F8]

Yeah, that's what I meant. I feel really silly haha. Thanks man.

 

[Keblerelf]

Is there a way to DI to avoid receiving the knockback from falco's uair, or is that just dependent on the falco player himself?

Also, is there a certain time frame where you should start mashing out of a grab? Sometimes I mash a bunch at 0% and still get a pummel and a throw, while other times at a higher % I struggle out after a single hit.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@Bones Yes you can powershield Bob-ombs; I am not sure if items reflect, but if you are talking about sudden death bob-ombs, then no they don't reflect and simply blow up on your shield.

@F8 The way to toggle light shield and full shield fast is to hold A and either L/R, then tap Z.

@Kebler Avoiding falco's uair knockback can be caused by either side. First you gotta know where the hitbox is.

The first hitbox has no significant knockback but can be DI'd in order to avoid the second hit which has knockback. On the second hit, the hitbox at the toes is the one you want to avoid, so you should hold down (in most cases i've found holding down to work; SDI is unnecessary) on the first hit. There is a solid mixup between bair and uair punishment at higher percents after a launch near the ceiling; the proper DI for escaping uair will cause you to die to bair, and vice versa.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

You can't powershield during shield drop.

except you can. just as mers' post states, you can ps during your shield drop. you just can't shield during it. ah, powershield jab is gonna be all up in so many peoples face, ya'll don't even know.

 

[Bones0]

@Bones Yes you can powershield Bob-ombs; I am not sure if items reflect, but if you are talking about sudden death bob-ombs, then no they don't reflect and simply blow up on your shield.

No, I was referencing a Bob-omb that a Peach player pulled and threw.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@chris Except you can't. I went into AR and tested. Not that it really makes any sense anyways, powershielding is just a part of normal shielding and you can't shield (or do anything else) during shield drop.

@bones i'll check about reflecting items if you want

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm...i'm pretty sure i did it...without AR...cause i thought that was the case...but it wasn't and i **** bricks...

i guess i could've seen wrong, but i'm pretty sure my shield wasn't finished dropping, yet i powershielded.

 

[mers]

I've seen it on video, I'll see if I can track it down.

EDIT: here it is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZmQEqmfduI#t=02m56s

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Powershield from Neutral Position

Powershield attempt from Shield Drop

I paused the animation on the frame that I inputted the L/R input. In neutral position it causes a powershield while in shield drop it does not.



edit-
@mers thats very interesting... im going to see what i can find out about that.

 

[john!]

looks like magus hacked sveet's account. sveet must be pissed.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

There are no frame differences. When the Wii goes into GC mode its hardware operates exactly the same as a GC. All the USB ports and SD card slot are deactivated and the console only runs one of its two cores. There are no framerate increases on any stage including Mute City and Fountain of Dreams in teams.

Too bad it still doesn't make it legal in teams either way. Also, the wii is apparently better at reading the discs than a gamecube. One of my melee discs shuts down on the gamecube while on the wii that never happens. There is noticeable grit on the disc too.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

looks like magus hacked sveet's account. sveet must be pissed.

LOL


I downloaded the video from youtube and in frame advance the shield never dropped. Video doesn't run at 60 FPS so there could be a missing frame, but i can't recreate a powershield in a similar situation. If anyone has a lead or an idea, i'm all ears. My only guess is some weird case of phantom hit on a shield.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yup, that's what my ganon did mers. i didn't think i saw it wrong. but it does kinda look like some sorta weird parry system.

maybe only during the first few frames of shield drop you can put it back up? idk.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I've already tried in the first and second frames repeatedly. In the video the shield was up the whole time and was never dropped, so we don't know if it was even in the shield drop. It may have something to do with shield stun, so i'll try to do some tests with that.


edit- i still can't recreate it. I have done tests with both shield buttons and various shield stuns.

 

[Battlecow]

So guys. Textures on ma melee. You can just say "no one knows" if no one knows and then I'll go find out via occult rituals or something.

 

[Pi]

I've already tried in the first and second frames repeatedly. In the video the shield was up the whole time and was never dropped, so we don't know if it was even in the shield drop. It may have something to do with shield stun, so i'll try to do some tests with that.


edit- i still can't recreate it. I have done tests with both shield buttons and various shield stuns.

hey try powershielding out of a powershielded shield drop animation

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why? its the same, 100%. Not to mention, if it was possible why did SDM dj OoS as peach (causing her to land quickly) in that clip in Perfect Control where peach repeatedly powershields fox's lasers accross FD.

 

[Pi]

i had the thing we're talking about happen yesterday
a random out of the window powershield

and iirc doesn't the 'shieldreflect' state stay out for like 9 frames? but pshield is only like a 2 frame & 4 frame window
maybe it has to do w/ moves that collide w/ only your shields hit/hurtbox, but like just barely
or something

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

guardreflect stays up during the whole time a full shield is being put up (8 frames)
guardon is the lightshield equivalent of guardreflect in the sense that it is the animation of the shield going up (8 frames)

Powershielding has a 2 frame window for projectiles and 4 frames for attacks.

I was thinking this powershield phenomenon might be occuring somewhere between light shielding and full shielding, but that still doesn't cause a powershield.


edit- here was my test of powershielding during a powershield-drop. I noticed a few odd things, one of which being the laser going halfway through mario before hitting him. The other thing was that after being hit, mario put up his full shield with the "guardon" animation instead of "guardreflect" as you normally do in neutral position.

 

[Pi]

the properties of pshielding & the shieldrop animation for a projectile & physical attack are different
you tried w/ physical attack as well?

& mario's guardon animation makes me think it has to do w/ when you effectively 'buffer' a shield out of something

scratch that

try re-creating what happen in the video he linked

it looks like he 'almost' powershielded that laser, so try shielding a laser within the 4 frame physical pshield window, but after the 2 frame projectile frame window, and then having falco attack the shield after that

maybe having the pshield window activated causes an extention, or even another pshield window to occur

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I might do some tests later. So far this has gone from interesting and potentially metagame changing to figuring out one mostly useless bug.

 

[Pi]

when was it interesting and metagame changing

 

[Keblerelf]

@Bones Yes you can powershield Bob-ombs; I am not sure if items reflect, but if you are talking about sudden death bob-ombs, then no they don't reflect and simply blow up on your shield.

@F8 The way to toggle light shield and full shield fast is to hold A and either L/R, then tap Z.

@Kebler Avoiding falco's uair knockback can be caused by either side. First you gotta know where the hitbox is.

The first hitbox has no significant knockback but can be DI'd in order to avoid the second hit which has knockback. On the second hit, the hitbox at the toes is the one you want to avoid, so you should hold down (in most cases i've found holding down to work; SDI is unnecessary) on the first hit. There is a solid mixup between bair and uair punishment at higher percents after a launch near the ceiling; the proper DI for escaping uair will cause you to die to bair, and vice versa.

Hey thanks for your response. Do you happen to know the answer to my second question?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

when was it interesting and metagame changing

when it was thought that one could potentially parry/powershield an attack while shielding. Imagine someone powershielding all of falcos shield pressure.

really we still haven't figured out what did happen in that vid. taj also did it vs mango at genesis lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hey thanks for your response. Do you happen to know the answer to my second question?

I do actually, i forgot to respond to it. Breaking out of grabs is based on a linear formula, so at 0% it will take less time to break out than at 50%. Heres the formula and other information:
[collapse=Excerpt from M2K's Huge Stats]Grab Escape Speed Formula (and the factors that affect it)

The formula for escaping a grab (NOT special grabs, like Bowser's Koopa Klaw) is the following. The variables are, as you probably know, "t" = time(in frames) stuck in a grab, "b" = amount of times victim presses buttons to escape quicker, and "d" = damage of victim.

The formula is...

"t" = "1.6d" + 76 - "6b"

At 0%, without any usage of the analog stick or any buttons, it takes exactly 76 frames (1.26666...) to escape a grab. On average, every damage more an opponent receives, the time they're stuck in a grab is increased by 1.6 frames. Since the game doesn't have fractions of a frame, it goes like this for every 5% an opponent receieves(and then the process/pattern continues). +2 frames, +2 frames, +1 frame, + 2 frames, + 1 frame. That's how it works. I also found that every flash when Mew2 grabs you occurs exactly 24 frames apart(and the 1st one starts on the 3rd frame of the grab), which is the exact same speed as Falco's laser when it's shot on the ground rapidly(except for the 1st shot, which starts on frame 23). Also, here is a general list of what affects escaping a grab by how much.

-----Press A, B, L, R, X, Y, or Z - 6 frames is reduced from the time you'd be held in a grab.

-----Press The Analog stick in 1 of the 4 cardinal directions(angles don't count) - 6 frames is reduced from the time you're held in a grab (24 frames is reduced after 1 complete rotation of the analog stick, so 2 and 1/2 rotations reduces the time by 1 second).

The characters that shock you when they're holding you(except Ice Climbers with both of them) with they're grab+A move, which include(in no specific order)...

1) Mewtwo
2) Pichu
3) Pikachu
4) Zelda
5) Ice Climbers(with both of them, by pressing A really really fast)

...stun a grabbed foe for for 5 frames, and every single other character in the game(??? on Giga Bowser, Master/Crazy Hand) stun a foe for only 3 frames. Yes, you can actually increase the time a character is held by pressing A to attack them in a grab. The total time for ever A attack (in a grab) is EXACTLY 26 frames, so that means that you'll be able to shock a foe with Mew2, Pika/Pichu, Zelda and the 2 Ice Climbers about 1 more time in 12 or 13 times than you'd be able to do with another character, which gives those 5 characters an very very very slight advantage over other characters when you hold and attack them.

Here's a little list on the amount of frames a character is held in a grab at each damage percentage(counting by 5's)

---------------0% - 76 (1.2666 sec)
5% - 84
10% - 92
15% - 100
20% - 108
25% - 116
30% - 124
35% - 132
40% - 140
45% - 148
---------------50% - 156 (2.6 sec)
55% - 164
60% - 172
65% - 180
70% - 188
75% - 196
80% - 204
85% - 212
90% - 220
95% - 228
---------------100% - 236 (3.9333 sec)
105% - 244
110% - 252
115% - 260
120% - 268
125% - 276
130% - 284
135% - 292
140% - 300
145% - 308
---------------150% - 316 (5.2666 sec)
155% - 324
160% - 332
165% - 340
170% - 348
175% - 356
180% - 364
185% - 372
190% - 380
195% - 388
---------------200% - 396 (6.6 sec)
205% - 404
210% - 412
215% - 420
220% - 428
225% - 436
230% - 444
235% - 452
240% - 460
245% - 468
---------------250% - 476 (7.9333 sec)
255% - 484
260% - 492
265% - 500
270% - 508
275% - 516
280% - 524
285% - 532
290% - 540
295% - 548
---------------300% - 556 (9.2666 sec)
305% - 564
310% - 572
315% - 580
320% - 588
325% - 596
330% - 604
335% - 612
340% - 620
345% - 628
---------------350% - 636 (10.6 sec)
355% - 644
360% - 652
365% - 660
370% - 668
375% - 676
380% - 684
385% - 692
390% - 700
395% - 708
---------------400% - 716 (11.9333 sec)

also...
0% - normal time
47% - 2X time
95% - 3X time
142% - 4X time
190% - 5X time
237% - 6X time
285% - 7X time
332% - 8X time
380% - 9X time
427% - 10X time
997% - 22X time[/collapse]

 

[erbanez]

It's awesome that m2k did all this work for us, because we're lazy!

 

[Keblerelf]

Thanks sveet, but I was wondering if there was a specific time frame where the inputs you are mashing are taken into account or whether you could start mashing as soon as you get grabbed.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont know the specific window for when you can mash off hand, but i have to go to work and cant check. Can someone else get him this info?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey as far as i know/remember Armada winning genesis 2 was the first time a European won a US national tourney. Also as far as i know/remember its the first time a peach won a US national. can anyone help research these facts b/c if they r true its somewhat histrionically important for smash.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

They are true.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

This is also the last time any European player will go to USA again so we will always hold the title and belt.

gg, no re.

 

[ZetTroxX]

Sure about that?

 

[Pi]

well i'm prettty sure armada won some locals when he was down here pre-G1/apex/G2

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^yea hes won locals but i was talking about nationals. Also i would be surprised if armada does not come over again. Since money is not a guarantee for anyone I almost feel that to travel from Europe to the US for a smash tourney the person must be doing it for the love of the game not for the money. (I could be wrong who knows)

Anyway I just feel like people should be making about a bigger deal about the history made at genesis 2. Not a huge deal just a bigger one.

Also how many nationals are there a year? (ive been away for a while i forgot) Anyway I just feel major tourneys should be thought of like majors in tennis. Like winning all of them is a grand slam and just winning one does not make you the best for sure maybe you have to look at the others and how the person ranked. Stuff like that, but maybe thats not necessary idk i would like to hear others opinions on that

 

[Varist]

Until you've faced every other top player in a bo5 set and won all of them, however many tournaments that takes, you are not the best. Once you have done that, then you must consistently beat the previous world champ in at least two more bo5s, because everyone has their bad day. If there are no legit johns over those sets with the previous champ, you are now the world champ.

imo.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

he's coming for MSU...and apex...that kid's a troll lol.