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[Blizz]

I have a question about controller control. I seem to have problems with particular actions and I'm not exactly sure why - for example, I use Z to grab but sometimes when I go in for a grab I'll do a quick shield thing before grabbing, which really messes me up. Also I'm not exactly sure how to do up-tilt attacks without jumping 95% of the time. This is probably just me messing up bad with precision but I also on occasion tend to accidentally do tilt attacks when I mean to do smash attacks. Are there any tips for NOT screwing up like this?

Also, about this question:

My favorite question: What button should I use for *insert command*?
WHATEVER THE **** YOU WANT

As far as I know you can't change the controls, and the only action I know off the top of my head is that control stick up and X both jump (maybe y does too but I never actually press y so I'm not 100% sure). Are there any other significant ones I should be aware of? (I just found out Z can also L-cancel which will really help me learn that, but I'm still concerned about how much trouble I have easily and quickly pressing the L/R buttons because of their size/shape/how far into the controller they go when pressed; tips for that would be nice too.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

For the grab: Z is also a lightshield button, so sometimes you will shield because its gay like that. Anytime I'm worried about it, i JC the grab.

For tilts, there are 2 methods. One is the hold the direction all the way for a short time. I use this for dtilts mostly. The other is to just tilt the control stick a little ways instead of pressing it to the rim. This is what I do for utilts and ftilts most of the time. There is also a trick where say you do a fair then land and want to do a utilt, you hold up before you hit the ground and then press A at the right time. I wouldn't rely on this too much as you need to know how to utilt from neutral consistently.

L/R do the exact same thing. X/Y do the exact same thing. They are completely preference. C stick is the same as smash A. You don't ever have to use one or the other, its up to you. Do what works for you.

As for pressing the shoulder buttons, it took me a long time to get used to it. I love the GC controller now, but its an acquired taste. The responsiveness is perfect, but the ergonomics of it are relatively poor.

 

[Blizz]

For the grab: Z is also a lightshield button, so sometimes you will shield because its gay like that. Anytime I'm worried about it, i JC the grab.

There is also a trick where say you do a fair then land and want to do a utilt, you hold up before you hit the ground and then press A at the right time. I wouldn't rely on this too much as you need to know how to utilt from neutral consistently.

It's utilt from a neutral consistency that I can't seem to do, other tilts are fine (and I already use that trick for utilt). I guess I could get used to that but it feels like some people can utilt just fine normally so I want to learn how they do. And from watching tournament videos, there has to be some way to guarantee that Z will actually grab. Isn't there? (and if 'JCing the grab' was what you meant in order to guarantee grabs, can you explain how to do that? I kind of read it as "if i accidentally shield I JC out of it" but I'm not sure if you meant that.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

To Jump Cancel (JC) a grab means simply pressing jump before grabbing. I use Y and Z but you can use any combination of Up/X/Y and Z/L+A/R+A. You have to press the jump button before you leave the ground or else you will simply jump (without the cancel part).

The best way to utilt without jumping from neutral is to tilt the stick only part of the way. I'm not sure of the exact distance because its muscle memory for me now, but regardless the best way to practice is to just try it for yourself.

If you're still having trouble, or if you have other questions, feel free to shoot me a PM or IM.

 

[genkaku]

I used to have trouble with tilts, but they come pretty easily once you start paying attention. Just like anything else it just takes a little bit of practice and muscle memory until you can do it without thinking.
JC grabs are pretty easy to pick up too.
IIRC, L cancels don't need a full press with L and R, but techs do.

Waveshine is a *****. My fingers haven't had to move that fast yet and it hurts my arms, haha.

 

[KAOSTAR]

ITs honestly not very far at all. literally just go to practice mode and try em for like 20 minutes.

tilt, then hit A. let go of stick. repeat.

after you get that pretty solid try doing aerials into uptilt. you can mash up on those tho if you do it early aka as u land or L cancel because during those frames u wouldnt be able to jump so u can just uptilt by hitting A.

then try WAvedashing into uptilt.

then mix it up.....get good. win tourneys

you got this lil homie

 

[mers]

Just so y'all know, the lightshield that comes up when you press the Z button occurs when you press Z, but your character is not in a position to grab. Basically, any kind of lag. You're trying to grab too early.

 

[genkaku]

So technically you could buffer lightshield with Z. That's interesting.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Is it still considered a button if its just a hold action vs something like R+C stick right which inputs every frame/other frame, whatever it is.

 

[mers]

Actually, the "R" part of "R+C stick right" is the same principle. Your character shields as soon as possible because you're holding R. Then, on the next frame the C-stick registers and you roll (which is why buffer rolls are technically 1 frame slower than doing it frame perfectly [assuming you aren't already shielding]). So holding Z is just the same as holding R, only you lightshield.

 

[Fatality1337Falcon]

can i be granted permission to post my own forum threads?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

What do you mean?

 

[john!]

i think he wants you to take away his permission to post forum threads, and them give it back to him right away

 

[Teczer0]

I thought I should let everyone aware that I put m2k's stats thread up in the first post.

Its a huge frame data statistic list of everything in melee that you could ever hope for.

 

[genkaku]

kk, so that Mango Shroomed match where Mango commentates is bar none the most helpful vid I've come across. Are there any other vids that are as insightful as to the metagame?

 

[KAOSTAR]

kk, so that Mango Shroomed match where Mango commentates is bar none the most helpful vid I've come across. Are there any other vids that are as insightful as to the metagame?

a few months ago lucien made a two videos. one about spacing the other about reading opponents I think. waffles channel.

its easy to identify.

really helpful imo

 

[Battlecow]

Hello my Melee Brethren!

I'm a competitive SSB64 player, and recently I've started playing melee-very casually- with my friends. I can tech and L-cancel and have some rudimentary idea of how to space, but they've actually played the game before, so we're about going even. Considering the amount I've bragged about how good I am at Smash, they're joshing me quite a bit, and my complaints about game differences are cutting no ice.

You probably see this question a lot, so I'll cut to the chase- What characters/stratagems will give a nub victory over other nubs? If a melee player asked this on the 64 board (they often do) they'd be told to pick kirby and use Dair and Utilt a lot, or else to pick falcon and learn the super-easy Uair chains. To give you an idea of how good we are- I generally pick falcon and then hop around and B-air or else do a grounded falcon kick or side B (lol Side B's) whenever someone's vulnerable.

So- easy, effective anti-nub strategies? Nothing that takes actual time (more than, say, five minutes) to learn, so I don't want any wavedashing tutorials or cool ways to DI. I'm playing Doug (That is, falcon, my 64 main) now, so I'd rather not switch, but if there's a super easy way to beat down beginners with a different char, I'll do so.

Oh, and if this would be better suited to a different thread, A thousand apologies and I'll move it ASAP.

Thanks!

Battlecow

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

pick peach. whenever you get hit hold down and then press down on the cstick. otherwise spend the rest of your time float canceling random things or throwing turnips.

pick marth. dtilt and autocancel nair (or late fairs). run around and grab sometimes when you feel like you've dtilted too much.

pick falco. jump, neutral b, fast fall. repeat.

 

[KAOSTAR]

With falcon.

run back and fourth at mid range until they attack and miss. Side B. jump and forward air them.

while they are on the ground. jump and dair l cancel. knee.


literally just run around and short hop neutral air at them.

thosse 3 things should get u some wins.

 

[Battlecow]

Thanks, broskys! I'll give all of those tries.

I was trying to knee a lot when I played, but since falcon's melee Nair is his Fair in 64, and his big KB attack is his Nair, I keep kicking people and then getting hit. It's pretty funny.

Anyways, more advice is welcome, and I <3 you all.

 

[Yung Mei]

friend Penta wants to know how the **** to do this

http://i56.tinypic.com/mif2nd.jpg


and i do as well, because it looks ****ing awesome

 

[Pi]

soooooo
samus' ftilt stretches on the z axis a bit
i wonder if this affects this or any other move like it in terms of what frame it connects on...under different circumstances

 

[KAOSTAR]

I know that M2 can dtilt at the right time and 360 around samus missile. There were a couple other Z axis moves or occurrences that IVe heard but Im struggling to remember right now.

 

[X1-12]

falco can f-smash over/through pkfire, maybe thats the same thing?

 

[Kanelol]

what's a z-axis

 

[john!]

what's a z-axis

 

[Pi]

2D deals with X and Y, being horizontal & vertical
2D platformers like the old mario games, you can move vertically & horizontally
3D adds another axis, Z, which you can move in
like super mario 64, or the newer mario games

and it turns out, that although visually we can only really see, & move in, smash as 2D, hitboxes & hurtboxes do travel in the Z axis

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

knihT changed his name O_O

 

[Tamoo]

his old one was better

this z-axis thing is very new news to me though, i'm intrigued

 

[Pi]

nothing is better than superwavedash

 

[Kanelol]

it took me a second to remember who superwavedash was

now that you changed your avatar no one will ever know

also, i really really thought smash was 2D

:[

 

[Pi]

it took me a second to remember who superwavedash was

now that you changed your avatar no one will ever know

also, i really really thought smash was 2D

:[

yup
i'll be ****ing up seeding at my next tourney jajaja

 

[Zatchiel]

Is there any direct timing for L-Canceling? I just hold shield after an aerial and hope for the best.

 

[X1-12]

press the button just as you land, thats all

 

[Pi]

think it's a 4 frame window before or the frame of landing

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

6 iirc

 

[Tamoo]

lol i thought it was 7

 

[X1-12]

Does anyone one know the exact mechanics of shield pokes? Can an attack hitbox collide with both a shield and a hurtbox and still poke? if so how much leniency is there?

 

[Kanelol]

i read in the fox boards somewhere it's 6

it doesnt change from char to char does it

 

[Sim]

Sorry if this discussion's a couple pages old, but...

I've always assumed that it's a buffered airdodge (can you buffer those?) from attempting to tech at the wrong time. Hitstun goes away when you slide off the stage like that, because you can also instantly jump or attack (although your momentum from the hit remains). I've also seen people instantly grab the ledge from stupidly powerful attacks before, which may require a tech but still illustrates the sliding-off-the-edge weirdness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNcf4OFY_3k#t=5m02s

This illustrates the second part of what I said.

Yes. You have to press it before you get hit, because you can't input techs in hitstun, and you have to use the hitstun to ASDI/SDI or whatever to the ledge.

This.

I'm actually getting rather annoyed hearing about this double stick tech nonsense.

I sincerely doubt that's what happened in that video, and also doubt that most occurrences of odd techs can be equated to 'double stick teching' seeing as how the buttons involved should never come up in succession without intent to 'double stick tech'.

The fox would have had to have tried to downsmash (sure why not), while trying to jump (what? why?), and then press R within the tech window (downsmashing, jumping, and shielding at the same time?)

I did double stick DI. I was simply quite surprised it worked.

You interpreted wrong what happened in the video. I ran toward Ganon not because I wished to dsmash him, but because I accidently dashed right >_<. I then realized I was running into a Volcano Kick, and prepared my DI.... though I sincerely thought I wasn't going to make it.

To my relief, I did! :D