pidgey14
Smash Apprentice
Another one who ignores Yoshi pros
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
metaknightrules
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2008
- Messages
- 5
Yeah, right after I put Yoshi in Low Tier I remembered how good Yoshi actually was. Sorry about that. I'll edit it right now.
Griffard
Smash Ace
my 1st draft:
Top Tier:
Marth
Wolf
Snake
High Tier:
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Zelda
Diddy Kong
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Olimar
Falco
Pikachu
Zamus
Ike
Pit
Meta Knight
Fox
Sheik
Middle Tier:
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Wario
Ice Climbers
Ness
Mario
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Bowser
Sonic
Samus
Peach
Donkey Kong
Link
Low:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
I might have overlooked some things, and the high tier is a bit mixed up, but i think that is quite accurate
Top Tier:
Marth
Wolf
Snake
High Tier:
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Zelda
Diddy Kong
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Olimar
Falco
Pikachu
Zamus
Ike
Pit
Meta Knight
Fox
Sheik
Middle Tier:
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Wario
Ice Climbers
Ness
Mario
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Bowser
Sonic
Samus
Peach
Donkey Kong
Link
Low:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
I might have overlooked some things, and the high tier is a bit mixed up, but i think that is quite accurate
Griffard
Smash Ace
Bacon Man11
Smash Journeyman
Ummm.... please don't like flame me or anything, I would just like to know why Wolf is so high on all the lists. I don't really play him so I don't know too much about Wolf. Is he really that good?
Whitefire
Smash Apprentice
I'd put Diddy in high not Top Tier. I don't have that much experience with Wolf but I'd say high tier for him too. I have a good deal of experience with Zelda and she's pretty good. But not the top of high tier. A lack of approach kills her against characters who could negate Din's Fire (Fox, Wolf, Falco, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Pit, and to a lesser extent a skilled Pikachu). And Kirby deserves to be way higher on the list. And I'd put GDorf on the bottom.
My Tier list so far.
Top Tier
Zamus
Bottom Tier
Zelda
I'm trying out each character for about a week and making the tier list as I try them week by week. I started in backwards alphabetical order. Zamus gets the top spot over Zelda for her much better versatility. Zelda is great when enemies approach you but has a very weak approach herself. So if your character makes you approach them its an uphill struggle. That being said Zelda is very good. She's only on the bottom of the list because there are only two characters.
ZSS is great. She's as quick as Sheik and has great combos. She also has good range on many of her attacks which lets her sit back and play defensively when you want or need too. Also wavebouncing with her whip can give enemies a lot of problems. If her short hop was a little lower she'd be better but you can't win them all.
I'm working on Yoshi this week. So far I haven't played enough to rank him but he's really not as bad as I expected. In fact I'd go as far as to say he's decent. I've had no trouble beating skilled opponents with him. He's not the best (so far I'd say ZSS and Zelda are both better) but he's definitely not terrible.
Top Tier
Zamus
Bottom Tier
Zelda
I'm trying out each character for about a week and making the tier list as I try them week by week. I started in backwards alphabetical order. Zamus gets the top spot over Zelda for her much better versatility. Zelda is great when enemies approach you but has a very weak approach herself. So if your character makes you approach them its an uphill struggle. That being said Zelda is very good. She's only on the bottom of the list because there are only two characters.
ZSS is great. She's as quick as Sheik and has great combos. She also has good range on many of her attacks which lets her sit back and play defensively when you want or need too. Also wavebouncing with her whip can give enemies a lot of problems. If her short hop was a little lower she'd be better but you can't win them all.
I'm working on Yoshi this week. So far I haven't played enough to rank him but he's really not as bad as I expected. In fact I'd go as far as to say he's decent. I've had no trouble beating skilled opponents with him. He's not the best (so far I'd say ZSS and Zelda are both better) but he's definitely not terrible.
peinoftherain
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 23
I'll try to compose one as well:
This list is not really in order though so.....
Top Tier
D3
Snake
Marth
Toon Link
R.O.B.
Upper Tier
Metaknight
Wolf
Olimar
Lucas
Diddy Kong
Kirby
G&W
Falco
Pit
Zelda
Zero suit Samus
Middle Tier
Ike
Fox
Luigi
ICs
Mario
Peach
Link
Sheik
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Lucario
Pikachu
Bowser
Sonic
Low
Donkey Kong
Ness
Wario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Bottom
Ganondorf
This is just my opinion
This list is not really in order though so.....
Top Tier
D3
Snake
Marth
Toon Link
R.O.B.
Upper Tier
Metaknight
Wolf
Olimar
Lucas
Diddy Kong
Kirby
G&W
Falco
Pit
Zelda
Zero suit Samus
Middle Tier
Ike
Fox
Luigi
ICs
Mario
Peach
Link
Sheik
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Lucario
Pikachu
Bowser
Sonic
Low
Donkey Kong
Ness
Wario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Bottom
Ganondorf
This is just my opinion
Noypi_GjD
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 473
I completely agree. People are unaware that tiers are statistical measurements of which characters have more advantages than others, not a bunch of theories and hypothesizes.
Another thing that Meta Knight has above other characters for killing is that he can chase you off the stage , kill you, and still get back on easier than most characters. His high aerial priority makes that even easier.
Uncle Fitzy
Smash Journeyman
Its good to see that not everyone thinks Sonic is low tier.
ToastMAN
Smash Journeyman
I Think Dat Random Is Teh Top Teir He So Good Hows You Gorna Counterpicks Teh Random
Post Count +1
Post Count +1
ToastMAN
Smash Journeyman
Double Post For The Win!
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Why does no one post actual explanations for their tier lists? Heres mine:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=152409
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=152409
Uncle Fitzy
Smash Journeyman
I think I have seen yours about fifty times now.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Huh? I've only posted it twice. I guess it's from everyone else constantly reposting it. But it's good to check back every once in a while since it changes so drastically from day to day.I think I have seen yours about fifty times now.
Uncle Fitzy
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, its been quoted up the ***
.And for that spammer... are you serious? Spam doesn't work! Give up!
ZäP
Smash Apprentice
Yes, I did notice that you main them, and also I find it odd that so many people deny IC's potential. (I wonder have anyone watched VirtualVoids IC...link) Ofcourse few characters have more potential than IC and will outmatch them countless times but I still think that, while they might not deserve high tier spot, they're better than Zelda and R.O.B for fact I main Zelda, and I know quite a lot about her and I play R.O.B quite lot.
Snake's true to the certain point where the stage comes to the play, his mind games and tricks won't work anymore on flat stages with few platforms to get safe. There better projectile spammer like pit will outplay him almost all aspect, although Snake is even in most of time in close quaters having high priority moveset.
And dominating majority while partially true I'd think he has more harder time to dominate small and/or fast character than bigger/slower characters of the cast and small/fast characters are majority of the cast atleast it feels so at the moment...
(I don't make any sense, do I?)
I.T.P
Smash Ace
Having actually played Void's ICs many many times(and losing, repeatedly, but I'm getting there ) I still don't think they should be Top\SS, but I do think they will be 6th-8th on the list, whereas I used to put them around 16th
) I still don't think they should be Top\SS, but I do think they will be 6th-8th on the list, whereas I used to put them around 16th
Yeah, that's if they grab you though. This goes back to melee, (sort of). There, IC's were 6 or 7th on the tier list. Why? Great grabs, wobbling, nice smashes, and an ok recovery. Nana did well on her own and desynchronizing them made it easier to kill people. People moaned and complained about them being "too" good. If you got grabbed at about 40%, game over. The problem was that not only did Nana have to be there, but you had to have the SKILL to time the moves right, grab the correct way, etc. So many things had to fall into place in order to pull it off.
How has this changed in Brawl? Not much on the IC's part. You still have to watch your nana, timing, spacing, and such, but there is a new problem, excessive camping. If someone successfully runs away from you through most of the match, it will make it very hard to grab, let alone grab with all the pieces to the combo being there, i.e. Nana. I want to wait and see where to place the ICs because they are a weird couple in my book.
How has this changed in Brawl? Not much on the IC's part. You still have to watch your nana, timing, spacing, and such, but there is a new problem, excessive camping. If someone successfully runs away from you through most of the match, it will make it very hard to grab, let alone grab with all the pieces to the combo being there, i.e. Nana. I want to wait and see where to place the ICs because they are a weird couple in my book.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Oh, shuddup.
ZäP
Smash Apprentice
Having actually played Void's ICs many many times(and losing, repeatedly, but I'm getting there
Oh, I forgot that you actually play against VirtualVoid...
I thought I never said IC should be Top/SS just be ranked higher than they are now. In my own "tier list" which I haven't posted because it's hardly ready yet, they're 7th and I think it's quite accurate placing for them.
katanagash
Smash Apprentice
Here's what I think (not in exact order but in ideal category)
Top/High: Lucario, Diddy, Toon Link, Marth, Fox, Sheik, Pit, Snake, Wolf, Ike
Middle: Mario, Link, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Pikachu, Luigi, Captain Falcon, I.C., Peach, Bowser, Ganondorf, Falco, Mr. G., Wario, Lucas, King Dedede, R.O.B.
Low/Bottom: DK, Jigglypuff, Ness, Sonic, Meta Knight, Pokemon Trainer, Captain Olimar, Zelda
Top/High: Lucario, Diddy, Toon Link, Marth, Fox, Sheik, Pit, Snake, Wolf, Ike
Middle: Mario, Link, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Pikachu, Luigi, Captain Falcon, I.C., Peach, Bowser, Ganondorf, Falco, Mr. G., Wario, Lucas, King Dedede, R.O.B.
Low/Bottom: DK, Jigglypuff, Ness, Sonic, Meta Knight, Pokemon Trainer, Captain Olimar, Zelda
Browny
Smash Hater
As much as i hate snake and everything he stands for, hes just too good :/
i think matchups should be worth something. i think olimar is one of the best in the game due to his rediculous camping ability, you cant get near the little **** without a dsmash or pikmin chain in your face. Hes probably my worst match up when i play as sonic. but snake really dominates him. especially by hovering the nikita beneath the stage where olimar hangs after recovering... instant kill.
then i play as sonic and do really well versus snake, all snakes specials are useless vs sonic and its just too easy to spam running grabs to rack up the damage in no time.
i think matchups should be worth something. i think olimar is one of the best in the game due to his rediculous camping ability, you cant get near the little **** without a dsmash or pikmin chain in your face. Hes probably my worst match up when i play as sonic. but snake really dominates him. especially by hovering the nikita beneath the stage where olimar hangs after recovering... instant kill.
then i play as sonic and do really well versus snake, all snakes specials are useless vs sonic and its just too easy to spam running grabs to rack up the damage in no time.
First of all, it's clear when I joke. The reason I say make half-baked tiers is because all the characters are pretty balanced out, so trying to divide them up into very defined tiers is difficult. Not to mention that I believe that a bottom tier won't exist, or that the bottom tier will not have a grand disadvantage against characters higher in the tiers. I think it would be easier to talk out each character's strengths and weaknesses and matchups if we try to find the very best first.
Second of all, I apologize for insinuating that SRK is stupid. It's my fault for being ignorant....the problem isn't your stupidity, it's the fact that you guys clearly suck at brawl.
Third of all, there were so many contradictions in your tier list that I almost passed out...if you want to show me your tier list again, I'll see if I can fix it up, but it was pretty messed up
Excuse the double post, but I believe you wanted me to **** the **** out of you and kill your f***in mother that gave birth to you with my "low tier" Meta Knight.
EDIT: Also, I think IC's are sort of where they were before as far as their own skill, but I don't really know them enough to say anything for sure.
_X_
Smash Lord
I think the IC's are already mosters. They can chainthrow just with D-throw just about every character.
Fox'll be highish 'cause of the D-air combos and the shine... but he's easily combo'd.
Fox'll be highish 'cause of the D-air combos and the shine... but he's easily combo'd.
Griffard
Smash Ace
wow, great argument you have there! you are SOOO right!
Crazy Hobo
Smash Cadet
Shiek is top while Zelda's bottom? MK in bottom while Yoshi is mid? P Trainer in bottom while Mario is mid? And Ganondorf mid? I'm going to assume you came up with your list form playing your friends alone. Please explain your list.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I'm not gonna bother...
I think too many people are drinking Toon Link's Kool-Aid. I main Falcon and personally I am thankful when a Toon Link matchup comes my way. He is too easy to KO and can't reach for crap. Besides that he's ridiculously easy to edgeguard so you can get kills on him at around 40% if you know what you're doing.
Also I personally believe that Falcon is significantly better than Jigglypuff, Wario, DK, Bowser, Ganondorf and Yoshi. I would say that putting him in the same tier as them is not doing him justice (this is probably because a significant number of people making lists here have never even touched Falcon or seen a good one but since everyone thinks he is the worst character ever they'll just throw him on the bottom with the truly crappy characters).
Pikachu is probably high tier, not mid like some people have him. I also think that Ness is probably mid and not low tier.
DeDeDe, Snake, and Marth are all surefire top tiers. Kirby is probably closer to middle tier than high tier.
Just my two cents.
Also I personally believe that Falcon is significantly better than Jigglypuff, Wario, DK, Bowser, Ganondorf and Yoshi. I would say that putting him in the same tier as them is not doing him justice (this is probably because a significant number of people making lists here have never even touched Falcon or seen a good one but since everyone thinks he is the worst character ever they'll just throw him on the bottom with the truly crappy characters).
Pikachu is probably high tier, not mid like some people have him. I also think that Ness is probably mid and not low tier.
DeDeDe, Snake, and Marth are all surefire top tiers. Kirby is probably closer to middle tier than high tier.
Just my two cents.
Or they've never seen a good one. That's the case with a few characters that people put in the bottom tiers incorrectly all the time.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
I'm still trying to push for IC's to be higher, but I need more support on it. And Snake dominates so hard at close range that it's not even funny.
Why do people still think that the IC's need to get a grab to win? They're entire move set is so good that you can forget you even have grabs. And camping doesn't hurt the IC's since their approach is so good.
Bottom tier won't exist? One will always exist, it's just that in more balanced out games the difference will be more minimal. If you think SRK sucks at Brawl then you truly are ignorant, please don't comment on a community you know nothing about. If you want to take a shot at fixing our tier list then go ahead. I have nothing against you, but you truly are ignorant and arrogant.First of all, it's clear when I joke. The reason I say make half-baked tiers is because all the characters are pretty balanced out, so trying to divide them up into very defined tiers is difficult. Not to mention that I believe that a bottom tier won't exist, or that the bottom tier will not have a grand disadvantage against characters higher in the tiers. I think it would be easier to talk out each character's strengths and weaknesses and matchups if we try to find the very best first.
Second of all, I apologize for insinuating that SRK is stupid. It's my fault for being ignorant....the problem isn't your stupidity, it's the fact that you guys clearly suck at brawl.
Third of all, there were so many contradictions in your tier list that I almost passed out...if you want to show me your tier list again, I'll see if I can fix it up, but it was pretty messed up
And so shows the maturity of a great deal of this community... Don't agree with something? Don't discuss why, just call it "n00b", "stupid", or say it "sucks at the game"!
Now before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, obviously this isn't directed at everyone so if you feel it's unwarranted you've probably got enough common sense to think back on your posts and know that it's not applicable to you.
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