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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
i dont agree with that tier list at all.
trademark0013
Smash Champion
Metaknight racks up dmg so fast u die b4 u realize what happened.
Marth is the best character in the game.
as far as i'm concerned, most brawl threads are spam threads. y defend my points? whose bad side should i be worried about getting on? also, only 2 ppl commented to what i said, none of them completely negative.
why defend your points? because they might just be crap. if you defend them, people will know why you say what you say and can analyze whether they are valid or not. that way we can know if they're good points or not. here's an example: roy is top tier cause he gots phyre.
DiasFlac
Smash Journeyman
Bowser should be top. True story.
GenericGamer
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3
I think the space animals, Marth, TL, Olimar should all be top (maybe not in that order). With Pit, GW, DDD, and maybe Lucas (his thunder is great for edge guarding if you can angle it well) close behind.
DK!
Smash Cadet
I do not agree with that list. Bowser should be mid. Mario isn't deserving the bottom spot, but he shouldn't go above the most mid (sucks that he isn't that good). And what's with all the Donkey Kong hate? He should be at least mid!
Illussionary
Smash Journeyman
Too be honest Samus rightnow is probably Mid Tier, but I think in the end she we'll be high or top tier.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
It's funny because I actually run that thread, notice the user name.
I'm very lenient with changing the tier list, you just have to give good arguments. Also we have very detailed descriptions for each placing on the tier list.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
DK ***** everyone. EVAR.
People really just don't give him a chance. He's Fast, Strong, Great range and he's got some great throws and the longest non tether grab!
Yes he's big. He doesn't have any big problems other then that.
People really just don't give him a chance. He's Fast, Strong, Great range and he's got some great throws and the longest non tether grab!
Yes he's big. He doesn't have any big problems other then that.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
PIKMAN and Olimar.
Funny.
That tier list is awful though.
Funny.
That tier list is awful though.
yoshiunity
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 108
- NNID
- YoshiUnity
For everyone who at least attempted to make a tier list that didn't involve any bias crap or recycle melee teir list bull into it. Thank you and I enjoyed viewing your take on the characters peformance. They're all opinion that can be debated, but still you gave a good insight on how their abilities are compared to others.
As for everyone else, DON'T BOTHER! You don't even try to look into a character and only go by what a majority of people would prefer. This is why I don't beileve in the tier list. It was made by someone, and it's mostly opinion form frequent tournement performances!
Look at me, I'll at least admit that I can't make one because I haven't used everyone, nor to their maximum skill yet. If I did make one, I'll have to choose from only characters I use because I KNOW how they work. And I HATE Jigglypuff... I hate her Poke'guts! But I won't deny that she can fight good when used right only because I hate her.
---Another Yoshi example.---
I'll ignore all the tier list that shoots Yoshi at the bottom for, word of mouth, only seeing his disadvantages, or no reason. You don't want to see this part, then move along. Not that many people who say Yoshi sucks actually read and/or considers these things anyway.
Ok, the two things are annoying when people jugde Yoshi. They say he sucks because he has no DJC and Jumping out of his shield. Through all the good yoshi players showing how this isn't a serious issue, this still plagues Yoshi. The DJC doesn't make Yoshi. That DJC is what cause him to fall quickly from Melee. Making his recovery risky, it would occur automatically with certain aerials causing him to shoot down unless he was at a certain height. Now his floatness allows him to nail aerials combo very well, and a lot of his attacks can launch immediately from his jumps. Rising sex kicks, forwardair(if u can hit it), and Uair hit hard, while his other aerials can start a punishing combo. The DJC is Dead and gone and Yoshi doesn't need it. try out his new aerial skills and get over it.
The "Jumping out of his shield" complaint. I'll admit, that's a fault for Yoshi, but not one that should make or break him even though he's a aerial character. Yoshi's egg like shield keeps his body enclosed at all times until it is self-shattered, grabbed, or overwhelmed, so he can't be shield stabbed by simple attacks. He gains a strength from his shield that no one else has. Has for actually jumping out his shield. This doesn't really affect badly for the reason that Yoshi can perform aerials immediately rising from the ground. If you don't get get hit, run and deliver a dash or rising aerials. If you are hit, swings yoshi's momentum in a loop in any direction then comeback at the person with rising aerials. Yes, rising aerials are very useful! XD
Now for simple cons and pros. Yoshi wasn't completely nerfed! The only move that was really nerfed was his downSmash. Boo..hoo.. All his other moves are either normal or buffed. Not all of his moves are meant to KO king anyway, so how can people who stay away from yoshi and think he's horrible tell what moves other than the dsmash were nerfed? I see a lot of irony in that! His aerial skills are of course better, *coughnodjccough*. Honestly, he's one of the few characters that can knock someone off the map, chase them in the air to hit them again and make sure they don't come back, and still arrive back on the stage safely(If the person's mindful of yoshi's recovery. XD) And for god sakes, don't milk Yoshi's special moves! They don't work that way! Also he's still a somewhat unorthodox character, but his better combo skills benefit him a little more.
His faults are simple.
Can't jump from his shield- yeah h can't do it. It would had done wonder for his already awesome aerial skills, but he does well enough without it show it's not really a big deal.
his floatiness- As useful as it is. The float can bite his eggmaker hard when it causes him to fly from certain attacks and he doesn't redirect himself immediately. So don't brag that you're Iron Rex when you explode off the screen a second after expected.
laggy/predictable moves - I HATE HIS GRAB! URRGH! It's so noticable with his head pulling back. And his specials become WAAY to predictable. Don't rely on them. stick with his a moves a little more and you might have better results. That's how I use him at least. His forward aerials lags too. yeah... Don't rely on it. Especially online. Yoshi + a laggy connection = HELL!!!!!
Simply put. Yoshi isn't THE BEST character, he's MY BEST! I've beaten a lot of people with him an got my share of beatings. I'm still learning him so I may be wrong in certain areas, but not by much.
---end of Yoshi example---
The game seems more balance, so simply put in my opinion. All characters can out perform others in certain areas, but no character can out perform some or everyone in everything. Yoshi was just and example, I use some others. And whether the user can use these skills determines how good they are. It's my opinion, fell free to agree, or disagree. Once again, sorry if I offend anybody, but it's my opinion.
Wow you said it Yosh. (Neat seeing you on the smash boards, I'm usually just a lurker seeking wisdom lol) I completely agree with this statement. Sadly, Yoshi is very underrated from what ever bad rep he had before. He's completely changed in ways of handing from Melee. And for the better!
Agreed with his A moves. And also agreed as to how every character seems a LOT more balanced, thus adding potential to each and every one. I can win with Bowser now XDD! But it's sad to say that there are always going to be tiers out there and those tiers are no doubt going to place Yoshi in low or bottom. Around mid or high-middle seems to be best for him speaking technically. IMO... |D
With TL as my main, I have to say I really wish Yoshi had better projectiles but it seems with a little practice... Yoshi's eggs seem to be rather useful. And WAY useful for recovery, it's really what improved Yoshi -- I'm not angry that he doesn't have a FULL recovery but at least something that can inch him to the edge. :D
Mweh, I'm not that great at speaking technical about characters -- seems all I do is phrase or point out the obvious. But Yoshi ISN'T nerfed imo. And I see you agree too and something we can all agree on is poor Yoshi is underrated which is why I'm making him on of my common choices of character.
You did a great job, man. An it's not just Yoshi, although he's a big example, but every character has their ups and downs. Anyone can get past them, some are harder, but it's possible. I've beaten every character with Yoshi, lucario, and kirby, along with recieving my share of loses. Doesn't matter if the game is new or not. Overtime, everyone will gain more experience, and will adjust to their respected fighting style.
People have characters that they can play and can't. A lot of the character that are automatically deem God-tier, high-tier, or what-the freak-ever it's called, I can't use well. But if they're the classified as possibly the best, I should be able to dominate anyway with some practice, right? I use Diddy kong, MK, G&W, and Snake(If he's classifed as top tier, he's seems all over the place according to people.), and I still lose lives faster with them than Yoshi or kirby and I equally practice with everyone. Plus, when playing online, how can we tell if who's better if lag sometimes throws off people's timing? It sure make spammers even more annoying though. XD Nice seeing ya again, bud!
Grandeza
Smash Master
Yoshiunity you totally just opened my eyes lol. I completely agree with everything you said.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
You forgot to mention that most other characters are simply better than him. It's not so much of why he's bad, but why everyone else is good.
If you're talking about the SRK tier list, then please elaborate instead of making worthless posts like this.
I'm actually surprised some people still think like this. Most of MK's kill moves such as Dsmash, Fsmash, Nair, and UpB all kill around the 140-150 range, which is no different than characters like Diddy Kong and Zamus, but no one seems to complain about their KO potential. Also everyone forgets that MK is one of the few characters left in the game who can gimp at low percents effectively.
DiasFlac
Smash Journeyman
I beat Metaknights all the time with my Bowser. Its easy since he HAS to come up to me. Unlike other characters who can spam projectiles from a far whenever they get afraid of Bowser's Monsterness.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
............. are you sure that you're even playing against good MK players?
yoshiunity
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 108
- NNID
- YoshiUnity
Thank you. I've not the best player, but I've seen and study a lot of matches.
It's honestly just my honest opinion though. Now, for the MetaKnight issue. MK is a light, fast character with attacks weaker than the average fighter. His sword is very fast and has a good length in it. Thus is why he is weak. Wouldn't be fair for him to even be at Mario's strength with his ultra fast attacks.
This doesn't mean he is bad though. His attacks, if the user actually remembers that it's best for sword characters to keep almost their sword length away from others, can add damage pretty quickly. then once he hits over 115% or up(Just an estimate, don't freak out Metaknight users.) is when he's becoming an extereme threat. Also he's moveset is best to be completely unpredictable due to him being light. You spam a move with him too much, you'll pay for it.
He has excellent recovery due to him being able to fly, glide, and all of his specials are counted as third jumps. However, you can't link his special moves together like other characters, so be mindful of each one's length and allow it to aid you back on the stage.
Once again, I'm not saying that Metaknight is top teir(I don't beileve in the tier list.), I'm saying that what others beileve. I just think he's good, but you have to be mindful when using him.
Anth0ny
Smash Master
I think Marth should be higher up on that Shoryuken tier list. I know that I'm biased because I main him, but his fair spam, nair and upb out of sheild is ****, among other things.
Overall, I think it's a good list, but Marth should be higher than MK and Snake IMO.
Overall, I think it's a good list, but Marth should be higher than MK and Snake IMO.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
We have quite a few Marth mains on SRK, including EmblemLord who posts in this thread. And they all seem to agree on his placing, and wouldn't mind seeing him moved down to the top of high tier.
Anth0ny
Smash Master
Why do I have the feeling that they're just saying that so they can fend off people from maining Marth?
Seriously, there's no way he should be lower than that. I think he should be higher, but it probably won't matter in the long run. I'm sure that many Marth mains will go on to win tournaments, despite him not being at the top of the top tier.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
You have to give a better argument than, just because you think so, if you want him to be moved up in the list. The only thing that really keeps him from being higher is that almost all of his match-ups are simply even, even against the lower tiers.Why do I have the feeling that they're just saying that so they can fend off people from maining Marth?
Seriously, there's no way he should be lower than that. I think he should be higher, but it probably won't matter in the long run. I'm sure that many Marth mains will go on to win tournaments, despite him not being at the top of the top tier.
Frown
poekmon
Hey, you've mained Marth, Wolf, Toon Link and Pit. I mean... coincidence?Why do I have the feeling that they're just saying that so they can fend off people from maining Marth?
Anth0ny
Smash Master
Haha, I know. I was actually chuckling at the tier list, knowing that I've been maining all top tiers this entire time
Also, my second best character is actually Falco rather than the secondaries in my sig. Just goes to show that he **** well deserves to be high on the tier list. Chan grab across the stage > spike is godly!
ZäP
Smash Apprentice
Corner-Trap, your Shoryuken tier list is quite interesting and accurate atleast when watching the current level of gameplay, though somethings bothers me on the list. F
irst of Snake position?I'm not quite sure he belongs so up, true he gimps people like mad and he is strong with high priority moves but I think he'll need more space and time to do his work, for he is after all rather slow and easily punishable(sp?)... but then again I'm little below average snake player.
Secondly I'd like to raise IC little upper since their combo ability, when used correctly, is godly and besides loosing Nana they have nearly zero weaknesses that gives IC massive disadvantage and their nerfs weren't so bad aside lack of distance in sideB recovery.
IC is harder to separate now and Nana is harder to get rid by far since her AI has greatly improved and lack of KO power doesn't bother much since most of other characters suffer it too. Then again friend of mine who mains IC is probably one of the best IC in Europe so that probably affects my judgement some way or another...
Otherwise it's the best list by far at the moment.
irst of Snake position?I'm not quite sure he belongs so up, true he gimps people like mad and he is strong with high priority moves but I think he'll need more space and time to do his work, for he is after all rather slow and easily punishable(sp?)... but then again I'm little below average snake player.
Secondly I'd like to raise IC little upper since their combo ability, when used correctly, is godly and besides loosing Nana they have nearly zero weaknesses that gives IC massive disadvantage and their nerfs weren't so bad aside lack of distance in sideB recovery.
IC is harder to separate now and Nana is harder to get rid by far since her AI has greatly improved and lack of KO power doesn't bother much since most of other characters suffer it too. Then again friend of mine who mains IC is probably one of the best IC in Europe so that probably affects my judgement some way or another...
Otherwise it's the best list by far at the moment.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
1) I know all about the IC's, I main them if you haven't noticed. I had them high in the top tier for quite a long time, but absolutely no one seemed to agree with me so I was forced to lower them.
2) Again, a lot of people agreed upon putting Snake at the top. This is mostly because his match-ups are just flat out good. He has a lot of things that make him good, but the fact that he dominates the majority of the casts is what really keeps him up so high.
DiasFlac
Smash Journeyman
I'm probably not but who knows. I was just stating that I have beaten MK players with Bowser.............. are you sure that you're even playing against good MK players?
Bowser>All
Hey. For metaknight haters. im not good with him but his KO potential isnt that great but its because maybe your playing him wrong. most people you try to damage them up to like lets say 100% then come stronger attacks which you attempt to kill with. Well when playing metaknight you just go a little longer which isnt that tough cause he racks up damage quickly.
thats just my two cents
thats just my two cents
You know, I don't see what all the fuss is about concerning MK's KO potential.
I mean, consider his style and general attacks. They're great damage builders, and the little swordsman can suck a foe in to deal some fantastic percent in a short amount of time.
Little chunks of this fast, efficiant attacking means that a higher KO percent doesn't matter. Because in the time it takes for, say, Wolf to build gradual percent with slower attacks, MK can rip out a combination of fast moves to build up even more.
I've actually been in the situation where after 30 seconds of playing, my MK had sustained about 40%, and the foe's D3 was at 150%, which is a simple case of Fsmash or Shuttle Looping the foe off the stage and edge-guarding with MKs incredible air-game.
Metaknight deserves a high spot, because while his moveset contains about 3 pure killing moves, his speed and damage-building ability more than compensates for that.
I mean, consider his style and general attacks. They're great damage builders, and the little swordsman can suck a foe in to deal some fantastic percent in a short amount of time.
Little chunks of this fast, efficiant attacking means that a higher KO percent doesn't matter. Because in the time it takes for, say, Wolf to build gradual percent with slower attacks, MK can rip out a combination of fast moves to build up even more.
I've actually been in the situation where after 30 seconds of playing, my MK had sustained about 40%, and the foe's D3 was at 150%, which is a simple case of Fsmash or Shuttle Looping the foe off the stage and edge-guarding with MKs incredible air-game.
Metaknight deserves a high spot, because while his moveset contains about 3 pure killing moves, his speed and damage-building ability more than compensates for that.
Completely off the subject of MK, Ivysaur should be a bit higher on pretty much every list. Most people seem to be forgetting that she has a disjoint for quite a few of her moves, and her recovery isn't nearly as bad as people seem to think. Moves tend not to knock characters below the stage anymore (unless they're spikes) so Ivysaur can just projectile a character holding the ledge, then sweetspot it with up-B. So there you have it, Ivy has the 2nd-to-worst recovery in the game, not the worst. (Take that, Olimar.) Plus you have to notice her range in Fsmash, Dsmash, Fair, Bair, and jabs, and KO abilities in Uair, Dair, and Usmash, not to mention her high-priority projectile and trapping b move that make anyone approaching from above or in front an idiot.
I expect this post will go unnoticed, since there are so few Ivy fans out there.
I expect this post will go unnoticed, since there are so few Ivy fans out there.
Illussionary
Smash Journeyman
I'm just gonna say that Sheik is high tier, she has great combos, lots of priority, great recovery, all she lacks is a set KO move. So that equals high tier.
Illussionary
Smash Journeyman
This is my elite Tier List!
Top Tier:
Marth
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Wolf
Snake
R.O.B.
High Tier:
Zelda
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Ness
Olimar
Fox
Falco
Zamus
Pickachu
Ike
Pit
Meta Knight
Sonic
Sheik
Middle Tier:
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Lucas
Bowser
Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Link
Kirby
Peach
Low:
Gannondorf
Wario
Captain Falcon
JigglyPuff
Is this pretty accurrate so far?
Top Tier:
Marth
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Wolf
Snake
R.O.B.
High Tier:
Zelda
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Ness
Olimar
Fox
Falco
Zamus
Pickachu
Ike
Pit
Meta Knight
Sonic
Sheik
Middle Tier:
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Lucas
Bowser
Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Link
Kirby
Peach
Low:
Gannondorf
Wario
Captain Falcon
JigglyPuff
Is this pretty accurrate so far?
Dry Bones
Smash Ace
it's pretty darn elite, as advertised =)
Griffard
Smash Ace
i would agree with most everything there except for a few things. kirby is quite a bit better than a few of the chars above it, yoshi belongs lower, lucas belongs WAY higher, diddy kong should probs not be that high. very good for the most part tho
timthenchant3r
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11
MK and Lucas are both going to be top teir, maybe one or two others as well such as marth, wolf, DDD...
metaknightrules
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2008
- Messages
- 5
Okay this is what I think:
Top Tier:
Toon Link
Marth
Wolf
Sonic
Diddy Kong
High Tier:
Meta Knight
Falco
Pikachu
Kirby
Squirtle
Luigi
Game and Watch
Ike
King Dedede
Pit
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Shiek
Middle Tier:
Zamus
Mario
Peach
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Link
Olimar
Samus
Yoshi
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Snake
Ness
Ivysaur
Wario
Fox
Low Tier:
R.O.B
Charizard
Bowser
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong
Top Tier:
Toon Link
Marth
Wolf
Sonic
Diddy Kong
High Tier:
Meta Knight
Falco
Pikachu
Kirby
Squirtle
Luigi
Game and Watch
Ike
King Dedede
Pit
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Shiek
Middle Tier:
Zamus
Mario
Peach
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Link
Olimar
Samus
Yoshi
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Snake
Ness
Ivysaur
Wario
Fox
Low Tier:
R.O.B
Charizard
Bowser
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong
I like that tier list, but I don't think Jiggs should be rock bottom. Her fair can kill at fairly low percentages, especially considering her overall style of play. But yeah, she is quite low. Ice climbers should definitely not be that low because of their awesome chain grabs, nor should Sonic be that high because of his bad priority.
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