Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[pockyD]

yes i'm sure a game with way over 30 characters is balanced such that each one is usable

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pocky is amazing.

Also

this whole thread is dumb because tiers are not based on how good the characters are.

good job guys. try again.

What?

Seriously what?

 

[Ripple]

Everyone who posts a tier list in here is adding fuel to the fire. it is impossible for anyone to be completely un-biased. this is exactly why the smash back room takes care of this, they work together and make sacrifices trying to understand where the next person comes from. everyone in here(excluding a few) is so sure they are right they talk **** to the next person about why they are wrong without asking why or even trying to understand. this is just stupid. if you really want to get something done in here, cooperate with each other, give each other a chance, ( if you are called a dip **** because you believe in something and aren't allowed to defend yourself, how would you feel??) and really study what make a character better than another.

/Done


I really hope most of you agree with this

 

[KosukeKGA]

I like your copypasta.

Anyway, to anyone saying this thread is stupid, it isn't. We're laying down a main foundation for the tier list through simple discussion.

 

[BentoBox]

Lol? Where's the discussion? Where are the arguments? Where are the match-ups analyses?

All people are doing is list every character's characteristics.

Leave this to the back room. This thread is stupid because most of the people that post have no idea how tier lists even come to be made and what they repesent.

 

[Link Lord]

I agree with BentoBox.

 

[DQP]

i'm drawn usually drawn to low-tier chars for some reason. hence, i'll probably main snake.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Well, D3's minions block attacks, like Ike's side B, and some people's FS, like Marth's for one. He's a pretty good counter-pick for the two of them, at least.

...Just saying is all.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Yes, I have a hard time against people who play Dedede as Ike. D=

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Good to hear it. ;D

 

[Ripple]

I like your copypasta.

Anyway, to anyone saying this thread is stupid, it isn't. We're laying down a main foundation for the tier list through simple discussion.

I though no one read it since they didn't comment or quote so I posted it at the top of a page instead of second from bottom

Lol? Where's the discussion? Where are the arguments? Where are the match-ups analyses?

All people are doing is list every character's characteristics.

Leave this to the back room. This thread is stupid because most of the people that post have no idea how tier lists even come to be made and what they repesent.

Where were you? people were ARGUING LIKE CRAZY A FEW PAGES back, but other than that I agree that this thread should be left to the back room

I agree with BentoBox.

so you agree with me too. yeah

 

[Ripple]

double post sorry

 

[Link Lord]

I guess I do.

 

[Subtle]

Lol? Where's the discussion? Where are the arguments? Where are the match-ups analyses?

All people are doing is list every character's characteristics.

Leave this to the back room. This thread is stupid because most of the people that post have no idea how tier lists even come to be made and what they repesent.

I've been extensively using Smash Boards for all of 2 weeks ( and lurked a great deal longer) and above everyone else I recognize you as constantly posting a great deal of intelligent posts. I commend you, Bento

Staying to the topic, this entire thread seems to lack a great deal of integrity. The amount of people who have Brawl on this boards compared to the number of people who do not is a very different ratio from people who admit their brawl noobs and people who do not.

For whenever SSB4 comes out, we really need some kind of badges by our names. " Owns brawl" "Played brawl" "Played Brawl extensively" " Brawl Virgin" ect.

 

[The_Trap]

hi guyz me and my freind have all ben playin brawl fer the past cupple weeks (we imported it from japan and modded my brothers wii lol) and we hav diveloped our own OFFICIAL BRAWL TIER LIST

xXx OFFICIAL BRAWL TIER LIST xXx

VERSION 1.0c

- UBER LEET GOD TIER ):-

ROB -
rob is incredible. his tilts are better than anyone in the game, and his downsmash is broken. throw in an upb where he can ATTACK WHILE ITS OCCURING and you ahve probably the best character in the game

KIRBY -
kirby is probably the BEST character in brawl. his dash attack is very good now and the winner in san fransisco won with him

MARIO -
the improvements to mario from melee and 64 are drastic. even w/o wavedashing, he can still combo very well. his downsmash is probably the best in the game.

FOX -
THEY DIDNT FIX HIM but i dont care since fox is kewl . his fsmash is even better now. however, he is god tier, but he has sufferd the most from the removal of lcanceling and wavedashing.

META KNIGHT -
i LOVE meta knight. his moves are not powerful but he is like SLASHYSLASHYSLASHY and can edgeguard like no other

LUIGI -
he is the BEST character in the game. his moveset is good and his TAUNT DEALS DAMAGE. having one more attack than anyone else really puts him over the edge IMO

SOLID SNAKE -
his nickeeta missels are one of the most powerful attacks in the game since you can control its dirrection! consider also tht his downsmash plants a friggin mine and you have one of the most powerful characters ever in any videogame ever

MEGAMAN -
i know he's not in the game, but if he was he would be in this tier. his attacks would be awesome since hed be like a faster more manly version of samus

(( UPPER CRUST TIER ))

ICE CLIMBERS -
a fantastic character since ther are two of them, but they suffer from some problems that make them combined worse than, for example, an uber tier character. first of all, their final smash is stupid, i mean, why would they create a mountain? on a big level like hyrule, its all but worthless. also, their smash attacks have been nerfed, and they suffer from the lack of wavedashing pretty severaly

POKEMON TRAINER -
POKEMON TRAINER is great. he is like the ice climbers in that he is THREE characters in one. it is powerful mindgame to switch pokemon midgame since your oponent has to adjust their strategy!

ZELDA/SHIEK -
they improved zelda quite a bit and nerfd shieks fair, which is sad because i mained shiek in melee. still, if you are fast enough, you can combo them off the edge with shiek and then edgeguard with zelda. POWERFUL

SAMUS/ZERO SAMUS -
samus is pretty good. her sex kick is back and her smash attakcs are good but her missles frekaing stink in brawl. however samus definitely wins the award for HOTTEST character in the game XD. her whip is very goooood and she will be one of those characters who will go far in brawl tourneys

DIDDY KONG -
diddy is FAST. also, his dash attack and neutral air look the same, which WILL lead to some impresive mindgames by the pros. it also helps that his smash attacks are good and his up tilt is aesome

FALCO "VINCE" LOMBARDI -
his fsmash has been improved, his tilt attacks seem better, but hes been slown down a little. still, he's a great character for noobs and pros alike

LINK -
link comes back much better and balanced in brawl. his up b is nerfed a little but can be charaged up and used like it was in melee. also, his arrows have been much improved and fire straight now, and his smash attacks seem more powerful. i like link

|=+ BAD TIER +=|

CAPTAIN FACLON -
SHOW ME YOUR MOVES XD. falcon is hilarious but he has been nerfed heavily from melee. i wish his atacks did more damage and knockback, but they really lowered his stregnth. and as such, they lowered hsi speed. he's really not as good in melee sadly

SONIC -
i dont care if hes the fastest thing alive. he's also the crappiest thing alive, since his attacks are weak as heck. his fsmash has like, NO range whatsoever, and why the heck would sonic punch something anyways? stupid.

DONKEY KONG -
slow is the only word i can use to describe him. i was considering puting him on the refuse to rate tier since he battled mario, but he has cleaned up his ways and become one of the good guys by fighting K. ROOL (who SHOULD ahve been in brawl). back to the character though, his moves are very good but he is slower than a sleeping parapalegic, so i cant rate him any higher

NESS -
ness is sadly bad in this game, but its beause they didnt change him much from melee. he still has a powerful back air and fsmash, but he feels weak compared to the other characters in the game

IKE -
oh man, i wanted to rate ike so much higher. he LOOKS cool and is ultra powerful, but he is slllllllllloooooooowwww. i bet noobs will use him because he looks cool but he is not good folks.

-: NOOB TIER :- - u'd have to be a total noob to use these characters XD

OLIMAR -
olimer is so bad it hurts. you can't attack unless you use b moves, which is stupid because sometimes i forget. its not fair that the game punished me because i didnt pull out pikmin. also his tether recovery stinks more than a cracked egg left on yoru couner for 3 weeks lol!

TOON LINK -
I HATE TOON LINK SO MUCH, his down aerial kilsl me all the time. if i am off the edge in melee i can pogo them but in brawl they removed that feature

LUCAS -
lucas is really bad since he is esentaily an underpowered version of NESS. i would have liked him to be good, but his grab is very slow but he has no real kill moves

YOSHI -
yoshi is so bad. i thought he wuld be ultra tier when i herd about the up-b improvement but he has no attaks tht deal any damge, it so stupid

LUCARIO -
WHY DID THEY TAKE OUT MEWTWO AND PUT IN THIS JOKE LUCARIO STINKS WORSE THAN A BURNING BAG OF FECES THAT MY FRIEND PUT ON MY DOORSTEP. i mean, his moves take like 5 years to come out, and when they do, they deal like 2% damage. i am so infuriated by this

PIKACHU -
pikachu suffers from what i call "crapp character" syndrome. he was bad in meelee and nintendo 64 smash brothers melee and is still bad in brawl. they should just take him out!

WARIO -
wario has no realy good attacks. he can dash dance pretty eaisly but other than that he isnt very good. his fsmash has limited range and his bmoves are easily aovided.

<{ ????? TIER }>

JIGGLYPUFF -
jigglypuff is very good but i havent figured out a good stratigy with her (or him lol) yet. i think he (or she) can be good but jiggly is very different in melee than in brawl

WULF -
it is hard 2 rate wulf sence me and my friend hav not unloked him yet. i wuld assum that he is very powerfil since he is a furry like fox, falco, and donkey kong

~<<< I REFUSE TO RATE TIER >>>~

DEDEDEDE -
he is fat and slow but strong but i wont play him since hes a BAD GUY

GANONDORF -
see dedededede.

MARTH -
his attacxks are brokin and i wont let me or my friends play him since he is so unfaer. i hate marth mains so much

PIT -
pit is the most effeminite character in the game and ALSO greek. as such, i cannot review him in an unbiased manner since my family is fundamentalist christians and we don't condone sodomy like the ancient greeks partook in, as pit is one of them


PLEASE LEAVE SOME COMMENTS! i will be revising this list as i play the game and i take your comments seriously. THANK YOU FOR READING IT and i hope it helps you first time players with understand the game a bit more

pretty much summarizes the thread

 

[P.c. Chris]

It's too early to determine anything.

 

[Winter Wind]

Yes it's too early to determine anything. But this is the fun part. (there's no need to take this seriously. Just speculation)

Is it just me or are the differences between characters much less drastic then in the other games?
I almost think marth and the space animals are placed high more because they were so over played in the last game.

Also, I think there is a difference in how the characters play in masses then one on one this time around. Anyone else see characters like Ike thrive in a four person match, but get totally destroyed against a fast character one on one?

I know it happened in melee, but in brawl it just feels more pronounced.

I donno, I still gotta play more.

 

[Ripple]

It's too early to determine anything.

THE MASTER HAS SPOKEN!!!!!

 

[redgreenblue]

Hi guys, uh this is my first post.

Now I know I can't make any real judgements until I have the game in my hands, but I've been watching a lot of videos about SSBB; and I have a feeling that Lucario is going to be pretty high tier... he just seems like a solid character to me. He has good range and he only gets more powerful as he gets more damaged.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vm27G0jaJi4

His smashes are all fairly quick, I think his down smash will probably be the most useful. It just like clears the entire area out, it's like his equivalent of Sheik's D-Smash. In addition to that, his DAIR actually completely stops his vertical movement, and you can spam it like a shine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vO9VNSHtobE

Now I know it's not the best match to be showcasing Lucario, but if you go to 2:25, Lucario edge guards with his DAIR; and not only that, but he spikes ROB with it! I know smashwiki has confirmed that it has a spike hitbox, but added onto the fact that it acts like a shine, I think it may have the prevalence that the knee had in SSBM. It also has almost no lag, if any, on the land directly from performing it.

Also, Lucario's Up+B seems to be fast and have quite a bit of range. As a falco player, that's going to be something I'm not used to (). I actually can't wait to get this game in my hands to try all the characters out. I'm sure there will be many surprises from characters in SSBB, certainly we are underestimating plenty of them. But I will bet that we will be seeing just as many Lucario pros as Wolf and Metaknight pros.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

tier discussion


game isn't out yet folks.

-_-

 

[Repryx]

Gimpy and P.C. (MY HERO!) Have won this thread...Game isnt out and (since Ive played it) It is Obvious that the game needs to be put in more capable hands as some of these conclusions are...well...dumb.

-Ciao


Repryx 4 Top Tier

 

[BigRick]

Lol? Where's the discussion? Where are the arguments? Where are the match-ups analyses?

All people are doing is list every character's characteristics.

Leave this to the back room. This thread is stupid because most of the people that post have no idea how tier lists even come to be made and what they repesent.

I do...

oh **** I'm not supposed to post here!

*leaves*

Oh and put slashinroy's list on the first page kthx

 

[Reno-Vgas]

So people can talk about tiers and Brawl without getting killed? Awesome!

From what I here...

High (Not necessarily top)

Marth
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Mario
Bowser
Dedede
Sonic
Meta Knight

Middle

Just about everyone I haven't mentioned

I can't tell that much, actually.

as much as I would love for bowser to be high tier, I dont know about it happening. You forgot to add TLink even tho I dont really like him.. I realized he has more combo ability so far than any character.

 

[BentoBox]

Creating tier discussion threads should be a bannable offense.

lawl :[


im srs.

 

[Ripple]

Gimpy and P.C. (MY HERO!) Have won this thread...Game isnt out and (since Ive played it) It is Obvious that the game needs to be put in more capable hands as some of these conclusions are...well...dumb.

-Ciao


Repryx 4 Top Tier

considering bentobox and I said that on the same page but before them(and others before us probably) leads me to believe you don't read what not-so-famous people have to say.

I'm not saying to read every post but read all on at least the current page

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'll make a list right now just cuz I'm bored. It's not in order.

Top Tier

Marth
Pit
Olimar
Metaknight
Wolf
Falco
G&W
Toon Link
Diddy Kong

High Tier

Fox
Lucario
Snake
R.O.B
Luigi
Mario
Kirby
Pikachu
Lucas
Ness
Ike
Dedede
Zelda
Shiek
Wario

Mid Tier

Samus
Link
DK
Bowser
Sonic
Ice Climbers
PT

Low Tier

ZSS
Peach
Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier

Yoshi
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon


I'm pretty confident that top tier and high tier is fairly accurate even though this list is just pure speculation. The rest of the list is just based on what I have read so far on the boards. It may or may not be entirely accurate.

 

[Psychoace]

I'll make a list right now just cuz I'm bored. It's not in order.

Top Tier

Marth
Pit
Olimar
Metaknight
Wolf
Falco
G&W
Toon Link
Diddy Kong

High Tier

Fox
Lucario
Snake
R.O.B
Luigi
Mario
Kirby
Pikachu
Lucas
Ness
Ike
Dedede
Zelda
Shiek
Wario

Mid Tier

Samus
Link
DK
Bowser
Sonic
Ice Climbers
PT

Low Tier

ZSS
Peach
Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier

Yoshi
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon


I'm pretty confident that top tier and high tier is fairly accurate even though this list is just pure speculation. The rest of the list is just based on what I have read so far on the boards. It may or may not be entirely accurate.

Then you haven't seen chillins post in the falcon boards.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have seen it.

Alot of those combos were escapable through air dodge.

At best I think CF will be low tier IMO, but who can say for sure.

And like I said, Mid tier and below is based on what I have seen and read.

Good thing you neglected to read that and you only looked at my tier list right?

 

[Psychoace]

I have seen it.

Alot of those combos were escapable through air dodge.

At best I think CF will be low tier IMO, but who can say for sure.

And like I said, Mid tier and below is based on what I have seen and read.

Good thing you neglected to read that and you only looked at my tier list right?

I wasn't calling you on it I was just saying that falcon probably doesn't belong in the last spot.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's not ordered bro.

The only thing my list does is put characters in a certain tier. Not in a certain order.

 

[Psychoace]

Ah that's why I got so hot to trot. It's cool, I just think falcon will take awhile to adapt to seeing as most of his combos don't work anymore but that doesn't mean you can't use newer more absurd combos. I've seen them use falcon punch as a recovery now.

 

[redgreenblue]

..::t33r L1zd::..

Okay, guys, here's my tier list. It's 100% the only real tier list, for sure SmashBoards will adopt it officially soon.

Top Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon

High Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon

Middle Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon

Low Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon

Bottom Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon
-Captain Falcon

I think you'll find that I'm right and you're wrong after some consideration.

 

[Repryx]

considering bentobox and I said that on the same page but before them(and others before us probably) leads me to believe you don't read what not-so-famous people have to say.

I'm not saying to read every post but read all on at least the current page

My Bad Sir...its just been....the last 10 pages Ive seen has been the same thing...but I shall pay more attention and $$ to this thread

 

[BigRick]

considering bentobox and I said that on the same page but before them(and others before us probably) leads me to believe you don't read what not-so-famous people have to say.

I'm not saying to read every post but read all on at least the current page

lol its sad really no one is sucking your ****

 

[Sariku]

I believe Marth will do very well in the competitive scene, as well as Snake. Well, Snake might be "Mid Tier" as he looks like Melee's Jigglypuff. He was good, but no one knows how to use him right. Sonic looks awesome, but as of right now it's more running back and forth playing Melee stratagies. I think the best way to come up with a Tier List is to use alot of online information from Spectator Mode, as we can see how casuals without alot of Melee habits play each of the characters. I mean, there will be exceptions like everyone just running into Ike's moves, but I think casual smashers will be a big part of our community for the time being.

 

[ph00tbag]

People who are saying ZSS is low tier need to be paying attention. Low tier means barely tourney viable, as in if you're using the character, you should not place well in tourneys. Blitz's ZSS has consistently placed high in California tourneys, and Mprism got fourth at one tourney. The point: she places highly in tourneys at the moment, thus, she is at least higher mid tier.

Tiers are not opinions, people. Try to look at the facts, first.

 

[Red7z7]

this is my general guess of tiers after watching tons and tons of what i believe to be the best vids of each character. i also played with most characters over the span of 4 days. im constantly updating it as i see new things, but here it is in its current state:

olimar
marth
fox
toon link
falco
wario
luigi

wolf
pokemon trainer
diddy kong
metaknight
pikachu
sonic
mario
pit
zero suit samus
zelda
shiek
lucas

ness
lucario
captain falcon
king dedede
snake
mr. game & watch
peach

link
ike
samus
kirby
robot
ice climbers

jigglypuff
yoshi
donkey kong
ganondorf
bowser

 

[Betrayed]

An accurate tier list won't be even close to made until the US has had it for at least a month, and that's pushing it. Once Europe gets it we can really start determining the list.

If you think a character is going to be high on the list, then you better **** well prove it.

 

[darestik]

Marth and Wolf on top

haha and olimar lmao

 

[SabinX]

a large turnout of players came for a brawl tournament hosted in south florida on this past saturday. majority of the players are veterans some melee pros., myself included.

from a large amount of visual learning, reading and a few days of playing with a decent amount of the cast including my old mains to see progression and changes and flow of matches, I was able to come up with a few pieces to add to any tier list speculation.

Marth is NOT as amazing as everyone says. He will not be top. take my word for it.
I can definitely see him in the high tier range as he is still Marth but he just isn't the crazy version from melee. we had a few players who were **** good marths in melee and have seen how some of the matches go. Marth has some trouble with Ike,Wolf,Olimar and a few others are at least even with him.

I mained jiggs in melee and I can say that she is pretty trash in brawl. not that her play style being so different is the reason. She lives longer, f.air sweetspot is nice, pound is still pound... but she floats SO slow that it makes her very hard to play. Jiggs wont be anything more than Mid AT BEST. rest is almost non existant. I will say that jiggs can rest very easily and space out bigger characters. d.air to rest is pretty easy along with mindgame tech chasing off rolls. also since power shielding is so much easier in this game, power shield to rest is quite an option.
All in all, I will say Mid.

I have been playing lots of Meta in brawl. He will be mid-high to high at best. lack of killing opportunities and having to restrict yourself due to diminished results on his 3 main killing attacks holds him back. If he had a spike and or 1 more killing move aside from d.smash/f.smash in the 100-120% ranges and up B. (not excluding his amazing edging ability, one of the best in game at that) He would be high tier.

Olimar is VERY very good. most likely high tier. not top due to recovery most likely and still too early to know if any of the overy fast characters will get in his face too much and be good counter picks (sonic/falcon/diddy) but he does very well against 3/4 the cast.

To summarize the rest, ROB is amazing... I hate him as a character but cant deny he is probably mid-high to high material .. possibly best up smash in game along with olimar, great recovery and weight. projectile is good.

Wolf is the best of the 3 space animals IMO.. havent seen enough fox falco. High range, priority, damage, killing moves, decent recovery and weight.

ZSS is amazing. fast good range, combo ability, spacing are top notch. light on weight and recovery are so so .. but thats her only downfalls i've seen. High tier.

Ike is very underrated it seems. Watch any Azen vids online, even M2K has spoken about how good he plays. Ike is def. mid-high to high+ status. destroys slip ups more than anyone.

Sonic I am undecided , personally I think he is trash but I have seen some good stuff. Prolly be Mid.

Snake as well. Mid-mid high..good turtle game, high damage.

G&W is like a lesser ROB to me.. but also very very solid . mid-high id say.

I could go on for more.. will have to see how things progress.

Oh, and yoshi isn't bottom most likely.

results for our tournament are in one of the threads here.

this was from a willvolution.com tournament south florida gaming community.

-sabinx