Browny
Smash Hater
when you quote for truth, you generally have to quote the actual post lol
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
3-7 is not really doing okay. Grab release side B ftw!
Blacksharkey
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 12
Tiers 'r for queers :D
Delta_BP26
Smash Ace
Excellent.
The amount of evidence you supplied to an argument I believed was set in stone and could never be proved wrong has actually been disproved. How you supplied enough facts to leave me speechless is truly unbelievable. I shall never argue that tiers exist ever again as long as I am on Smashboards, the GameFAQ's Brawl Boards, or any other forum.
Zinc Elemental
Smash Journeyman
You forgot to flame him for homophobia. >_<
Seeing as Wario has a very nice anti grab game this matchup is at least doable. A lot of stages limit how much the opponent can abuse the release crap (pokemon stadium 2 ftw, although it's banned in Holland
). Giving him only one really bad matchup in the top 7, Dedede's chaingrab + grab release + grab range is just too much.hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
You're an idiot. You actually think 39 characters are all equal? Get off Smashboards and go to some forum with people who have the same idiotic mindset as you.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
But it's not just the grab that gives Marth the advantage and you know that. He can also still grab release to fair or nair even if there are platforms (if the platforms aren't too high). I guess I wouldn't call it a really bad matchup, but it's a bad matchup nonetheless.Seeing as Wario has a very nice anti grab game this matchup is at least doable. A lot of stages limit how much the opponent can abuse the release crap (pokemon stadium 2 ftw, although it's banned in Holland
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Olimar is a better overall character. Wario has grab release exploits against him and an infinite. This moves him way down.
Don't feed the troll.
[sarcasm]Olimar has a gimpable recovery and is very light. This moves him way down.[/sarcasm]
The post you quoted is correct. Your post is stupid.
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
if wario is that bad
how come futile was able to go through tournaments going straight wario, same with reflex? there are other wario players out there who try to go all wario until meeting a d3
while olimar players cannot
think about it
yea wario has grab release crap done to him, but if you're not d3, you're going to have a pain in the @$$ time grabbing him, even marth, 3-7 against marth is too much, at worst, i'd put it 6-4, and also being the only safe counterpick to snake means something
and honostly, snake is a top tier character, if you're not wario or even DK, there's no way you have an advantage over him, they could be even, but i don't see them having an advantage
how come futile was able to go through tournaments going straight wario, same with reflex? there are other wario players out there who try to go all wario until meeting a d3
while olimar players cannot
think about it
yea wario has grab release crap done to him, but if you're not d3, you're going to have a pain in the @$$ time grabbing him, even marth, 3-7 against marth is too much, at worst, i'd put it 6-4, and also being the only safe counterpick to snake means something
and honostly, snake is a top tier character, if you're not wario or even DK, there's no way you have an advantage over him, they could be even, but i don't see them having an advantage
gantrain05
Smash Master
i dont think anybody ever said that wario was bad, just that he doesn't deserve to be as high as some wario mains are saying he should be.
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
besides yoshi, who below ROB does he have a bad match-up with? and yoshi can be considered even
olimar has bad match-ups against ness and peach
olimar has bad match-ups against ness and peach
It wasn't meant to be taken serious
Mmac
Smash Lord
@popsofctown: True, but if you're switching to Zelda for your kills, then you are not repersenting Sheik as a whole. Sheik without Zelda just has poor KO'ing ability, which will take a good while until the opponent will finally die. Honestly, I think we should put in Sheik, Zelda, and Sheik/Zelda as separate Characters on the Tier list. Kinda like NoobSmoke from Mortal Kombat.
@mood4food77: You're underestimating Yoshi's Pivot Grabs. It's probably one of the best ranged grabs in the game (On par with Olimar), and one of the best overall grabs in the game in general. Yoshi can snag people like flies, even if you are careful about it.
Also Fox has an advantage over Snake
@mood4food77: You're underestimating Yoshi's Pivot Grabs. It's probably one of the best ranged grabs in the game (On par with Olimar), and one of the best overall grabs in the game in general. Yoshi can snag people like flies, even if you are careful about it.
Also Fox has an advantage over Snake
proof? arguments?
Boolossus
Smash Ace
Above Average
----------------------
Metaknight
Snake
Game & Watch
Dedede
Wario
Marth
Falco
Rob
Peach
Olimar
Diddy Kong
---------------------
Average
---------------------
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Fox
Sheik/Zelda
Pit
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Ike
----------------------
Below Average
----------------------
Ness
Pokemon Trainer
Mario
Lucas
Link
Luigi
Bowser
Samus
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Sonic
----------------------
Metaknight
Snake
Game & Watch
Dedede
Wario
Marth
Falco
Rob
Peach
Olimar
Diddy Kong
---------------------
Average
---------------------
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Fox
Sheik/Zelda
Pit
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Ike
----------------------
Below Average
----------------------
Ness
Pokemon Trainer
Mario
Lucas
Link
Luigi
Bowser
Samus
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Sonic
freeman123
Smash Lord
::TOP::
-Diddy Kong
-Falco
-Marth
-Meta Knight
-Olimar
-Pit
-R.O.B.
-Toon Link
-Wolf
::HIGH::
-Fox
-Ike
-King Dedede
-Kirby
-Lucas
-Mr. Game & Watch
-Ness
-Pikachu
-Samus
-Snake
-Zelda
::MID::
-Charizard
-Donkey Kong
-Ivysaur
-Link
-Lucario
-Luigi
-Mario
-Peach
-Sheik
-Sonic
-Squirtle
-Wario
-Zero Suit Samus
::LOW::
-Ice Climbers
-Jigglypuff
::BOTTOM::
-Bowser
-Captain Falcon
-Ganondorf
-Yoshi
-Diddy Kong
-Falco
-Marth
-Meta Knight
-Olimar
-Pit
-R.O.B.
-Toon Link
-Wolf
::HIGH::
-Fox
-Ike
-King Dedede
-Kirby
-Lucas
-Mr. Game & Watch
-Ness
-Pikachu
-Samus
-Snake
-Zelda
::MID::
-Charizard
-Donkey Kong
-Ivysaur
-Link
-Lucario
-Luigi
-Mario
-Peach
-Sheik
-Sonic
-Squirtle
-Wario
-Zero Suit Samus
::LOW::
-Ice Climbers
-Jigglypuff
::BOTTOM::
-Bowser
-Captain Falcon
-Ganondorf
-Yoshi
Wario > Marth, falco, ROB???
IC's, Peach > Olimar, Lucario, Kongs, Wolf, Pika, ...???
Fox, Sheik > Wolf???
Zamus > TLink???
Link > Luigi???
CF, Ganon > Sonic???
PT, Ike > Mario???
Boolossus
Smash Ace
Exactly. except i changed my mind on ICs. They can infinite people, but once nana is dead it's game over.
SwordmasterXXXI
Smash Journeyman
Wow, just wow. Is this a joke list? >_>
Zinc Elemental
Smash Journeyman
ROB says hi.
Boolossus
Smash Ace
Even Rob is even with him at best. In my personal experience(used to main ROB), Snake actually has an advantage over him.
Zinc Elemental
Smash Journeyman
Hmmm, I consider ROB to be a Snake counter. :/
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
Luigi > Wario
There's one
Pika > Snake
There's one
Yes these are troofs
There's one
Pika > Snake
There's one
Yes these are troofs
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Metaknight says Hi.
freeman123
Smash Lord
In case you haven't figured it out yet, the characters are in alphabetical order with in their rankings.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I saw it on their matchup forum. This is what they said:
If it's wrong, yell at them, not me >_>
Eh....... No, you just Faild
Xeze
Smash Ace
But they shouldn't be. In each ranking (Top, High, Mid, Low, Bottom), the character's position is also important. Being at the first place of, for example, the mid tier is different from being at the last place of that tier. This gives a completely wrong impression.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Therefore you just phail.
Seriously though, within a tier, placement matters, a lot.
Even given that, the list still is poor.
freeman123
Smash Lord
That's pointless, because it's impossible to come up with an exact order from best to worst. Take Melee for example. Is Fox better than Marth? Maybe.... But some people would probably argue that Marth is better. As a matter of fact, for a long time Marth was ranked number one on the tiers. You could never win an argunment on whether Marth is better than Fox no matter which side you took. It would just be a matter of personal preference.
On the other hand, no one who knew what they were talking about could argue that Mewtwo is better than Fox. You may just happen to like Mewtwo, but there's no question that Fox is a much better character as far as competitive potential goes.
So it's pointless to try to make an exact order of rankings and say "this guy is #1, this guy is #2, this guy is #3...", because you can never prove it and you can never come up with a list that everyone agrees on.
What you could do is divide the characters into groups based on their overall potential and say that characters in one group are generally better than characters in another group.
Boolossus
Smash Ace
Where? And has it been proven through arguement, or through actual matches?
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
10greenletters
Mmac
Smash Lord
But even with your ranking system, it still greatly fails. Lets take a look
The entire list is just flawed
First of all, Diddy, Olimar, and Toon Link shouldn't be in Top Tier. Wolf and Pit shouldn't be anywhere near it in the first place
Second, Snake, Game & Watch and Dedede underneath 8 people that don't deserve to be above him? Samus in High Tier? I know she's underestimated, but she should be nowhere near High Tier. Ike is beyond overated. In fact, he might actually be the worst. Fox, Lucas, Ness, and Zelda should be a tier lower.
One thing that bothers me is that PT Is separated. You can't separate them because it's impossible. Link I don't think is Mid Tier Material. Lucario should be higher. Same with Wario and ZSS. I dunno, this entire part seems like a mess
Now, Why is Low Tier so small? And Ice Climbers 6th-5th Worst?!? Are you kidding me? Also Bowser and Yoshi should be nowhere near the Bottom.
The entire list is just flawed
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Whoops bad typo of mine when I was editing Sorry.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's impossible. In fact, most of the discussion is centered around where the characters belong, and part of establishing an accurate tier list is establishing an absolute order.
It changes, but Fox is still the melee top char.
As the metagame becomes more firm, the absolute order will become more clear, in the meantime, we debate to see.
Regardless, MK is alone in top tier, he's clearly the best character atm, the gap is large enough that everyone else needs to be shunted down to high tier.
The sacred 7 make up high tier, because again there's a very clear differentiation between them and every other character in the game. MK makes up top, the rest of them make up high.
That's for starters.
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