Frown
poekmon
Are... are those the words of the Smash Back Room?
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Mmac
Smash Lord
*Sigh* It's never going to end, is it?
We're going to be talking about Yoshi until the end of time....
And by end of time, I mean SSB4.
We're going to be talking about Yoshi until the end of time....
And by end of time, I mean SSB4.
Jump_Man
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 95
This wins the thread
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Aren't we to assume high level play though?
Bwett
Smash Ace
And you think it will stop there? lol
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Meh, every character has potential. I don't know how big the bottom tier will be, but I can't see Yoshi being better then more then 5-6 characters in the game. And even then, that's debatable to me. Oh well only time will tell what the tier list looks like in the end, but I agree we should move off the topic off Yoshi.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Lorl SBR has spoken, Yoshi arguments should be ceased because your petty quarrels have no impact on there list, in which they're saying bottom of middle. It was only a matter of time MWAHAHAA *cough* Erm ye...
shazbot
Smash Apprentice
shazbot
Smash Apprentice
noooo way, G&W is good but snake is better.
A. bacon does not come close to matching snake's grenades and nakita.
B. G&W's approach is limited to aerials because his ground game doesn't have much reach. Snake sliding is way better
C. you just can't kill snake, his recovery is way too good. If you can do the c4 trick to get his up b again, snake can live up into the 160's, even close into the 200's
i'd put snake somewhere in high tierr (top 7, not sure about top 5) and game and watch would fall somewhere in the upper reaches of mid tier.
P.S. How is the tier system going to work? with more characters in brawl, will there be more sets of rankings (i.e high mid and low mid)?
Edit: oops sorry for the double post
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
meta and snake are top two with gdubs very close behind
gdubs it either the bottom of top or the top of upper
gdubs it either the bottom of top or the top of upper
PRiDE is the only Yoshi good with him on a regional to national level.
Brawl is all matchup knowledge.
No way in hell people are going to know what to do against a high level Yoshi. Thus, what he has going fro him right now is mindgames stemming from lack of what he's going to do. As soon as people learn Yoshi he's going to get demolished regularly.
PK Hexagon
Smash Apprentice
Sarcasm. Hence the 'amirite?'.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Ahh okay. I thought you meant Pride was an example of high level play Yoshi's.
Hmm who knows maybe he'll do better than initially thought.
*shrug*
exidid
Smash Journeyman
Erm... Turtle?
Maybe that's not enough to beat Snake, but G&W is undobutely one of the best chars.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I agree, Yoshi is overtalked about here.
Everytime someone brings up Luigi to talk about him, someone brings up Yoshi again and he's forgotten.
So let's talk about Luigi already for more than one post! He's an extremly underplayed, but good character, and probably high-mid middle tier.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
We should discuss ZSS.
Frown
poekmon
Luigi is better than Mario. That's all I can say.
And I can also say that Yoshi is better than Mario but worse than Luigi.
Talking about Yoshi...
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
ZSS is low high, high mid character
she does very well against snake and metaknight due to her long reach and high priority
also, she is very good at edgegaurding, has a very good aerial game, her recovery isn't so good but it's better than oli's and ivysaur's
i'm not saying she has the advantage over them, but she is definitely one of their worst match-ups (i think she's even with snake and at a slight disadvantage against meta)
i also do not know much of her other match-ups, i just wish she had more tournament experience because she has a lot of unlocked potential and could make a run for a top 5 character
she does very well against snake and metaknight due to her long reach and high priority
also, she is very good at edgegaurding, has a very good aerial game, her recovery isn't so good but it's better than oli's and ivysaur's
i'm not saying she has the advantage over them, but she is definitely one of their worst match-ups (i think she's even with snake and at a slight disadvantage against meta)
i also do not know much of her other match-ups, i just wish she had more tournament experience because she has a lot of unlocked potential and could make a run for a top 5 character
exidid
Smash Journeyman
I do!
Luigi's Nair is good @_@
Luigi's Nair is good @_@
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Fire Punch is also another good move since you can set it up so easily.
We should find a way for Luigi to escape from DDD's infinite, although it may never happen.
We should find a way for Luigi to escape from DDD's infinite, although it may never happen.
Adapt
Smash Lord
I see her as a nice Mid tier character (maybe High-mid, but no higher). Almost no one seems to play her in tournaments though. Slower and larger characters will find themselves hard pressed to land a hit against a competent ZSS. She doesn't get stuck in combos very much, she gets caught in a couple chain grabs, but only at low percents, and if you miss an attack yourself, you may find yourself eating a guaranteed 30% damage (more against several characters... Poor Fox)
Her recovery is medium-good, she can make it back from nearly anything that doesn't kill her, but tethers still are limited. A good ZSS will rarely get gimped. I find it easier to gimp recoveries like Marth's and Mario's rather than ZSS because of her flexibility. She can also punish you severely for jumping out and attacking by using her down special. She is invincible until the apex of the jump, and a couple frames after that she can bring out a high priority kick that will spike if it connects during the beginning of the move. You have to be precise and hit her in between the 2 or you can get spiked. And the spike is in the top 10 strongest in the game. Even if she doesn't spike you, she can also footstool out of the jump which extends her invincibility and sends her across FD. She can also "flipstool" objects like waddledees and physical projectiles like link's boomerang (whatever GaW can't bucket)
Her downfall is against small maneuverable characters where they can get in her weak areas (like the blind spot in the f-special) and ones with many attacks that outprioritize/outrange hers. (luigi and lucario are good examples)
She also has a bit of trouble killing, (but nowhere near as much as sheik for example) and she doesn't have much trouble racking up damage so it doesn't set her back as much as you would think.
If brawl had more hitstun then she would be high tier for sure with 1/2 her moves able to combo. But in brawl a lot of her combos are escapable/interruptable and will only punish other's mistakes.
Frown
poekmon
My prediction: ZSS will end up at the very middle of middle tier. Then, some guy discovers some imbalanced technique with her down B and ZSS is high tier.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Lol, see? Somene suggest Luigi, we ignore them. Someone suggests anyone who's not Luigi, we go pages and pages about them.
Wha, why does no one pay attention to Weegee?!
Wha, why does no one pay attention to Weegee?!
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Cause he plays with his nose alot.
Adapt
Smash Lord
You asked for it by pointing out that no one talks about him for more than a post
And no one pays attention to Weegee because that is the hallmark of his character
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Well honestly, how many people know much about Luigi anyway? I at least most certainly don't for the most part.
He has fast, high priority aerieals. He is very floaty, so for the most part, that is a boon to his crazy aerieal (sp?) prowess although his aerieal speed is pretty bad as far as I can tell. He has decent to above average recovery and his F-Smash is fast and strong.
His range sucks though and that alone could put him at a disadvantage against MK, Snake, Rob, G&W, and Marth. His approaching tools are pretty bad; he can't poke shields very well and he is not fast to begin with. That leaves him prime for camping. Wario is like the only high tier character he has an advantage against. He might have decent matches against Kirby, ROB, and Pikachu but he struggles to beat the rest. Finally, his tournament records proves he is not anything to write home about. He definately is mid-mid tier though due to having good matchups against low-mid tier and below.
Yonder, correct me if anything that I said was wrong.
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Messages
- 2,965
i think that sonic is slowly getting better and better as ppl understand him more.
its good.
still needs alot of time tho.
its good.
still needs alot of time tho.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Luigi actually has a number of good matches below high tier. He certainly does very well with Sonic.
Griffard
Smash Ace
Weegee has better than average matchups against nearly all mid and below, average to below average hi to hi mid. I think he'll be in highish middle tier and not move very much *shrug*
QFT.
Yes, Luigi's range is pretty lacking in most moves, so he'll have a hard time against most higher tiered characters. But his priority in his air game makes him definitely worth a look.
Griffard
Smash Ace
his down air beats out pretty much every other aerial. I guess that gives him a huge edgeguarding advantage.
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Except Meta Knight's
. Plus, his horizontal movement is pretty crappy. Anyone could just move to the sides.
Griffard
Smash Ace
lol well obviously. I think we have already acknowledged the fact that MK will always win though.Except Meta Knight's
Browny
Smash Hater
o lawd its my turn again
Snake tier: MK
Top tier: Snake, G&W, ROB, Dedede
Very high tier: Marth, Falco, Wario, Olimar, Lucario, DK
High tier: Pikachu, Diddy, IC, Kirby, Wolf, Fox, Zelda, TL
Mid tier: Pit, Peach, Mario, Luigi, ZSS, Sonic, Ness
Low tier: Lucas, Ike, Shiek, Yoshi, Link, Bowser
No tier: PT, Samus, Ganon, CF, jiggs
Snake tier: MK
Top tier: Snake, G&W, ROB, Dedede
Very high tier: Marth, Falco, Wario, Olimar, Lucario, DK
High tier: Pikachu, Diddy, IC, Kirby, Wolf, Fox, Zelda, TL
Mid tier: Pit, Peach, Mario, Luigi, ZSS, Sonic, Ness
Low tier: Lucas, Ike, Shiek, Yoshi, Link, Bowser
No tier: PT, Samus, Ganon, CF, jiggs
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Is Ike really that irrelevant?
Rodge91
Smash Cadet
bowser - no1 uses him, but he kicks ***
TOP TIER STUFF
TOP TIER STUFF
Browny
Smash Hater
its hard to remember everyone >_>
Dragonslayer9
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 36
Some people don't understand how cheap Bowser suiciding can be..
I understand Ikes slow, but I don't really think he is that bad, his neutral A attack is a kill move and its not that bad, his Bair is pretty quick to.
I understand Ikes slow, but I don't really think he is that bad, his neutral A attack is a kill move and its not that bad, his Bair is pretty quick to.
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