Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Pieisthebest]

I know <.<

I'll continue lurking lawl

 

[AbsoluteZero255]

Wait... so, is sonic low or bottom tier?

 

[ShadowLink84]

He is far from bottom tier.
At best mid tier material.

 

[Fogo]

yeah mid maybe, i saw medium low though

 

[ShadowLink84]

Eh I think he does a bit too well for low.
Mainly since his matchups are not as bad as initially thought and he has many options for speeding up his aerial and ground game.
His grab game is pretty good and while he does lack priority, characters that really give him trouble are MK and Luigi due to their godly priority and the AOE on their moves.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

yay someone using the term AOE for brawl besides me u think may be we should change it to AOA (area of attack)? or may be just area? or call it range, then call the original term 'range' reach instead?

and btw ive been gone from here a while again, so if anyone replied to one of my posts earlier, like 4 days earlier, i prob didnt read them, so dont think im ignoring u or something

 

[Corigames]

We use AOR for Guild Wars (Area of ****)

This is on topic I swear >_>

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Lol.

10char

(yay my first usage of 10char)

 

[Greenstreet]

i like the idea of a tier system.. but i agree that it causes ppl to think that characters are worse off always... but if some1 masters lucas they can smash any1 i guess, regardles s of tiers.. wat i am sayin is in the end (altho there are better and worse matchups ) it comes down to skill..

 

[Corigames]

Yes, that's the point in the tiers. If you are higher skilled, you will beat someone with a better character. However, if you play at the same "level" as someone else, the tiers are then a factor. The advantages will take over at that point and the lower character will almost always lose.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yes, tiers are based on players with equal skill. Think about it: Matchups, which are a key factor in tier placement, are thought of as matches between two players that understand their character equally well. Therefore tier placement should reflect the same criteria.

 

[cman]

We use AOR for Guild Wars (Area of ****)

This is on topic I swear >_>

What guild wars are you playing? It's always "GET OUT OF THE F*CKING AOE YOU SCRUB" whenever i play.

This is on topic if corey's was.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Yes, that's the point in the tiers. If you are higher skilled, you will beat someone with a better character. However, if you play at the same "level" as someone else, the tiers are then a factor. The advantages will take over at that point and the lower character will almost always lose.

This should be read by every single smasher before they post in this thread. Tiers don't make a char bad, bad players do.

 

[Xiivi]

How to make a tier list.
A Guide by Xiivi

Step 1: Pick a viable number of ranks. 4 ranks isn't going to cut it, and 7 ranks isn't either. 5 or 6 is fine, with 6 recommended.

Step 2: Name the ranks accordingly. Top, High, Upper, Mid, Low, Bottom and S, A, B, C, D, E work well. Don't try to get attention using things such as "God" and "Fail" tiers, it doesn't work.

Step 3: Learn to separate your tiers accordingly. You aren't going to get your attention if you place 8 people in high tier or 20 characters in mid tier. Bell curve people, bell curve! (It can skew some to the left or right of course.)

Step 4: Snake and Metaknight. Place these two in Top/S tier as 1 and 2. You want people to take you seriously so you get your attention.

Step 5: G&W, Marth, Falco, King DDD, ROB. This is the next group of characters to sort as you please. Remember, if one of them is your main you can probably get away putting them at the top of this group in the High/A tier!

Step 6: Lucario, Wario, Olimar, Toon Link, Pit, Wolf, Pikachu, Ice Climbers, Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, Diddy Kong. These are your Upper/B, and some of the Mid/C ranks. Make sure you inflate them as much as you like talking about untapped potential or not enough people maining them! You could even get away with tossing one or two of these guys into the High/A tier! Remember, you want to inflate your main as much as possible!

Step 7: Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Lucas, Sonic, Ike, Mario, Bowser, Ganondorf, Pokemon Trainer, Link, Jigglypuff, Samus. This is a large group of lower mid/C ranks, low/D ranks, and potentially bottom/E ranks. Make sure to drop the ones you hate as low as possible! This is where the real controversy starts, have fun!

Step 8: Captain Falcon, Yoshi. These two need to be dead last. Most will insist putting Captain Falcon at bottom, but you can put Yoshi below him for kicks. Sit back and watch the Yoshi mains attempt to tear your head off! If you do like or main Yoshi feel free to maybe put him up an extra spot or two, but never outside of the Bottom! Remember, CONTROVERSY! ATTENTION! YOU WANT IT!

EXAMPLE TIER LIST:
TOP Tier
Snake
Metaknight

Note Snake and Metaknight alone at the top!

HIGH Tier
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
R.O.B.
Falco

See as I place King Dedede as high in the group as I can because I like him and Falco at the bottom because I hate him! Yet I make sure to keep them in their 'group' so no one gets too suspicious!

UPPER Tier
Wario
Olimar
Fox
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Pit
Kirby

Look at how high Fox is! Ridiculous!

MIDDLE Tier
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Toon Link
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Peach
Sheik

Note how I mix the groups up some! Some are from Step 6 and some from Step 7. Yet I make sure not to move them around too much! Zelda sucks, Sheik rocks! I'm putting them as close as I can get away with and can make any random claim I want about Zelda not living up to tournament results and Sheik have a tilt lock on half the cast for my placements!

LOW Tier
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Ness
Sonic
Ike
Mario
Bowser
Ganondorf
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer

Lucas can die in a fire as far as I care! I'm citing his tournament results for him being so much lower than Ness! Ganondorf is a sexy beast!

BOTTOM Tier
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

LOL YOSHI!

 

[Dpete]

How to make a tier list.
A Guide by Xiivi

That pretty much sums it up at this point in the metagame, as sarcastic as it is...

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@Xiivi: Nice post. I think this thread might be resolving soon.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

how To Make A Tier List.
A Guide By Xiivi

step 1: Pick A Viable Number Of Ranks. 4 Ranks Isn't Going To Cut It, And 7 Ranks Isn't Either. 5 Or 6 Is Fine, With 6 Recommended.

Step 2: Name The Ranks Accordingly. Top, High, Upper, Mid, Low, Bottom And S, A, B, C, D, E Work Well. Don't Try To Get Attention Using Things Such As "god" And "fail" Tiers, It Doesn't Work.

Step 3: Learn To Separate Your Tiers Accordingly. You Aren't Going To Get Your Attention If You Place 8 People In High Tier Or 20 Characters In Mid Tier. Bell Curve People, Bell Curve! (it Can Skew Some To The Left Or Right Of Course.)

Step 4: Snake And Metaknight. Place These Two In Top/s Tier As 1 And 2. You Want People To Take You Seriously So You Get Your Attention.

Step 5: G&w, Marth, Falco, King Ddd, Rob. This Is The Next Group Of Characters To Sort As You Please. Remember, If One Of Them Is Your Main You Can Probably Get Away Putting Them At The Top Of This Group In The High/a Tier!

Step 6: Lucario, Wario, Olimar, Toon Link, Pit, Wolf, Pikachu, Ice Climbers, Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, Diddy Kong. These Are Your Upper/b, And Some Of The Mid/c Ranks. Make Sure You Inflate Them As Much As You Like Talking About Untapped Potential Or Not Enough People Maining Them! You Could Even Get Away With Tossing One Or Two Of These Guys Into The High/a Tier! Remember, You Want To Inflate Your Main As Much As Possible!

Step 7: Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Lucas, Sonic, Ike, Mario, Bowser, Ganondorf, Pokemon Trainer, Link, Jigglypuff, Samus. This Is A Large Group Of Lower Mid/c Ranks, Low/d Ranks, And Potentially Bottom/e Ranks. Make Sure To Drop The Ones You Hate As Low As Possible! This Is Where The Real Controversy Starts, Have Fun!

Step 8: Captain Falcon, Yoshi. These Two Need To Be Dead Last. Most Will Insist Putting Captain Falcon At Bottom, But You Can Put Yoshi Below Him For Kicks. Sit Back And Watch The Yoshi Mains Attempt To Tear Your Head Off! If You Do Like Or Main Yoshi Feel Free To Maybe Put Him Up An Extra Spot Or Two, But Never Outside Of The Bottom! Remember, Controversy! Attention! You Want It!

example Tier List:
top Tier
Snake
Metaknight

note Snake And Metaknight Alone At The Top!

High Tier
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
R.o.b.
Falco

see As I Place King Dedede As High In The Group As I Can Because I Like Him And Falco At The Bottom Because I Hate Him! Yet I Make Sure To Keep Them In Their 'group' So No One Gets too Suspicious!

Upper Tier
Wario
Olimar
Fox
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Pit
Kirby

Look At How High Fox Is! Ridiculous!

Middle Tier
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Toon Link
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Peach
Sheik

Note How I Mix The Groups Up Some! Some Are From Step 6 And Some From Step 7. Yet I Make Sure Not To Move Them Around Too Much! Zelda Sucks, Sheik Rocks! I'm Putting Them As Close As I Can Get Away With And Can Make Any Random Claim I Want About Zelda Not Living Up To Tournament Results And Sheik Have A Tilt Lock On Half The Cast For My Placements!

Low Tier
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Ness
Sonic
Ike
Mario
Bowser
Ganondorf
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer

Lucas Can Die In A Fire As Far As I Care! I'm Citing His Tournament Results For Him Being So Much Lower Than Ness! Ganondorf Is A Sexy Beast!

Bottom Tier
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

Lol Yoshi!

L.....o......l

 

[Jump_Man]

Yoshi....bottom tier?

zOMG!

 

[NinjaFoxX]

How to make a tier list.
A Guide by Xiivi

Step 1: Pick a viable number of ranks. 4 ranks isn't going to cut it, and 7 ranks isn't either. 5 or 6 is fine, with 6 recommended.

Step 2: Name the ranks accordingly. Top, High, Upper, Mid, Low, Bottom and S, A, B, C, D, E work well. Don't try to get attention using things such as "God" and "Fail" tiers, it doesn't work.

Step 3: Learn to separate your tiers accordingly. You aren't going to get your attention if you place 8 people in high tier or 20 characters in mid tier. Bell curve people, bell curve! (It can skew some to the left or right of course.)

Step 4: Snake and Metaknight. Place these two in Top/S tier as 1 and 2. You want people to take you seriously so you get your attention.

Step 5: G&W, Marth, Falco, King DDD, ROB. This is the next group of characters to sort as you please. Remember, if one of them is your main you can probably get away putting them at the top of this group in the High/A tier!

Step 6: Lucario, Wario, Olimar, Toon Link, Pit, Wolf, Pikachu, Ice Climbers, Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, Diddy Kong. These are your Upper/B, and some of the Mid/C ranks. Make sure you inflate them as much as you like talking about untapped potential or not enough people maining them! You could even get away with tossing one or two of these guys into the High/A tier! Remember, you want to inflate your main as much as possible!

Step 7: Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Lucas, Sonic, Ike, Mario, Bowser, Ganondorf, Pokemon Trainer, Link, Jigglypuff, Samus. This is a large group of lower mid/C ranks, low/D ranks, and potentially bottom/E ranks. Make sure to drop the ones you hate as low as possible! This is where the real controversy starts, have fun!

Step 8: Captain Falcon, Yoshi. These two need to be dead last. Most will insist putting Captain Falcon at bottom, but you can put Yoshi below him for kicks. Sit back and watch the Yoshi mains attempt to tear your head off! If you do like or main Yoshi feel free to maybe put him up an extra spot or two, but never outside of the Bottom! Remember, CONTROVERSY! ATTENTION! YOU WANT IT!

EPIC FAIL LIST:
TOP Tier
Snake
Metaknight

Note Snake and Metaknight alone at the top!

HIGH Tier
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
R.O.B.
Falco

See as I place King Dedede as high in the group as I can because I like him and Falco at the bottom because I hate him! Yet I make sure to keep them in their 'group' so no one gets too suspicious!

UPPER Tier
Wario
Olimar
Fox
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Pit
Kirby

Look at how high Fox is! Ridiculous!

MIDDLE Tier
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Toon Link
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Peach
Sheik

Note how I mix the groups up some! Some are from Step 6 and some from Step 7. Yet I make sure not to move them around too much! Zelda sucks, Sheik rocks! I'm putting them as close as I can get away with and can make any random claim I want about Zelda not living up to tournament results and Sheik have a tilt lock on half the cast for my placements!

LOW Tier
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Ness
Sonic
Ike
Mario
Bowser
Ganondorf
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer

Lucas can die in a fire as far as I care! I'm citing his tournament results for him being so much lower than Ness! Ganondorf is a sexy beast!

BOTTOM Tier
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

LOL YOSHI!

informitave yet nub as hell,seriously the list is terrible,and seriously yoshi's place on everyones tier list is not for his matchups or skill,ITS A FVCKING POPULARITY CONTEST,so there i bit your head off,i second as yoshi(lern2makebetterjokes)

 

[Xiivi]

WTF BRIGHT ORANGE?

If this post had a shred of seriousness to it, then I'm going to be very sad. :/

 

[Ingulit]

How to make a tier list.
A Guide by Xiivi

IAWTP

The tiers themselves look reasonable, despite the sarcastic random ranking therein. Doesn't stop my Ganondiddy from hitting up the local tournament from time to time, of course

If this post had a shred of seriousness to it, then I'm going to be very sad. :/

IAWTP- This one too.

 

[Morrigan]

Xivi's tier list is so great, for real. And the way he posted it...awesome.

 

[Kiwikomix]

So I'm gonna be the one to break the funny here and point out that this is exactly how a lot of people make tier lists.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

informitave yet nub as hell,seriously the list is terrible,and seriously yoshi's place on everyones tier list is not for his matchups or skill,ITS A FVCKING POPULARITY CONTEST,so there i bit your head off,i second as yoshi(lern2makebetterjokes)

BAWWWWWWWWW

I don't know about everyone else, but I liked Xivi's list.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Xiivi]

So I'm gonna be the one to break the funny here and point out that this is exactly how a lot of people make tier lists.

That's what I was pointing out. -_-;;

 

[Morrigan]

That's what I was pointing out. -_-;;

Yet you managed to come out with a good list

 

[Xiivi]

Yet you managed to come out with a good list

That's because I took my own personal tier list and made a few changes for exaggeration purposes.

 

[Corigames]

I think we should round up all the Yoshi mains on the boards and burn them. They are a cancer killing tiers.

 

[Kino]

Kino's Tier List

Kino's Tier List Version 1.1

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

I couldn't see myself changing any of these three from what they are now, G&W is there because of the sheer number of characters he has good matchups against, sure he doesnt do great against some high tier guys, but theres a lot of characters that can trump the very high tier group that are from the bottom half of the tier etc.


Very High Tier:
Marth
Falco
King Dedede
R.O.B
Olimar
Wario

Marth is there because of all the reasons you'd expect, his great range priority and spacing game, but also because of how mindgames affect his matchups so much, and how many moves help his mindgames, hes a character built to frustrate and intimidate his opponents. I picked Falco as number 5 here because of his chaingrabbing game and his amazing spike, the spike can be busted out against basically all characters and in conjunction with his grabbing game he can get some very nice kills with it, not to mention his projectiles.

D3 because of his grabs giving him easy games against a lot of great characters around him, but personaly i dont like him that much, i dont like his aerial game enough, the bair is great but even RARing it isnt always safe. especialy against the characters around him.
R.O.B and Wario i cant see people having issues with how i've placed them, and Olimar is there because one of the main reasons he isnt winning more imo is because not enough people play him, but hes quickly gaining popularity and with an upsmash and projectiles like his, not to mention his grab game, hes easily a very high tier character.
I placed Wario at the bottom here because of release grab getting him all the time.


High Tier:
Lucario
Pikachu
Wolf
Zelda
Toon Link
Ice Climbers
Pit

I made a few changes here, I've kept lucario top because of his increasing tourny success recently and hes getting more popular, he has great disjointed lingering hitboxes and a great combo game against top characters, i think he needs to be high tier because he has a fair game against a lot of the characters above him, noone really dominates him from up there. Pika is second because of some great chaingrabs and because of his amazing Dmash and UpB, when used together can kill heavy characters below 100.

I like wolf so hes 3rd, he has a nice camping game and some amazing smashes, hardly any lag and amazing damage and a pretty nice hitbox. Wolf is pretty solid character, he doesnt have much amazing material but hes solid nethertheless. Pit has gone to the bottom here because imo his recovery is overrated, his UpB if hes caught in it is nearly always a death and i just don't think his aerial game is good enough to be any higher. Zelda is now higher than toon link on my list because of a change in my personal opinion, it just feels right to have it like that instead, and IC's is a lot higher than last time, up in the high tier because outside of their grab game they can be really effective, i think people don't give them enough credit.


Mid Tier:

Donkey Kong
Fox
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Luigi
Mario
Lucas
Ness

DK and Fox moved down from my last list to this tier because the high tier was to big, I think DK cant be in high tier because he doesnt have enough good matchups, he has a lot of great matchups with high-tier characters but outside the big names he can easily lose to a few characters you wouldnt expect a high tier character to. Fox is down with him because fox is always lower than DK imo. and then the list stays the same, luigi better than mario because of his better aerials for one reason, but i think its close, and lucas > ness because i cant see it being the other way round, sorry.


Low tier :
ZSS
Ike
Peach
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Sheik

It just looks perfect like that, ZSS can be very dangerous with weapons like Dsmash Dsmash DownB, fast characters can always cause problems in the right hands. Ike is next to her because if you can recover well with him, you can do well with ike, his recovery is terrible but he can kill people on ridiculous percents, it gives him an oppertunity to shine if played well. The rest of the list is pretty self-explanatory.


Bottom Tier:
Link
Samus
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

I dont want to talk much about this, this tier is where arguments happen.

 

[Sudsy86_]

I think we should round up all the Yoshi mains on the boards and burn them. They are a cancer killing tiers.

? I don't understand why so many people bag on Yoshi so heavily. How is he worse than Samus ( who I main fairly heavily) and Ganondorf? Samus has terribly unfair killing disabilities and Ganondorf is so freaking slow that his power is seriously almost without much use.

People generally still seem to be caught in egg throw traps for a short while time and time again, all his aerials are comapritively VERY powerful ( uair), having absurd range and hitbox( bair), or putting a lot of damage when executed( dair, though I know it's rarely going to be executed atall). His tongue makes for a great running grab option, his neutral b is usually effective in screwing up short hop attacks( which most good players seem to use a LOT, if you haven't noticed), and his over B is also generally effective in putting on quick damage unexpectedly--similar in circumstance to MK's tornado.

He's not fast--but, then again, he's not slow. His general range is EASILY well above average.

Of course, his recovery can be dreadful if hit in midair, also leaving him generally unable to shine or attack at all off stage--but that's how many seem to be in Brawl, at least compared to Melee.

Yoshi> Samus, Ganondorf, Link, and almost always Sonic.

 

[Corigames]

You are pushing it with sonic, but he is generally the better of the bottom tier. However, people trying to push Yoshi higher than that are persistent AND annoying and that's why that guy put him at the bottom of the list and put LOL next to it.

You got trolled.

 

[Ills]

So, I make a tier list like this?
Ills tier list 1.1, in other words I made no research at all and all of this is off the top of my head because I was too hammered to care


Ttly 1337 53K5y Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Maim and Watch
Wolf
Falco
R.O.B

High Tier:
Olimar
Toon Link
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wario
Zelda
Lucario
Pikachu

Middle tier:
Kirby
Mario
Weegee
The Median of Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Lucas
Sonic
Donkey Kong
Fox
Squirtle
Charizard
Ivysaur
Ike

Low tier :
ZSS
Sheik
Bowser
Ganondorf
Link
Yoshi lol
Jigglypuff


Bottom Tier:
Captain Falcon
Samus


suck tier
yoshi

 

[Sudsy86_]

Yet another noob tier list by me.

Top:
MK ( sorry, his speed and range [though not individually great] give him high priority with almost all moves.)

High:
Snake ( most certainly inferior to MK. Once off the edge, he's quite the sitting duck. Also, I've never seen good Snake players who didn't generally play extremely similar to the majority of the group.)

ROB ( what bad matchups does he really have? He probably has more realistic combo options than any other character. Plus, his recovery is spectacular.)

Falco ( doesn't seem unreasonable.)

G&W (nor here either)

Dedede (or here)

Kirby ( seems to be heavier than in Melee, is a comparitively faster character than in Melee, and can combo people to hell when off stage.)

Wario ( What moves does he have that cause lag?)

Lucario ( I think he's phenomenal. Just don't see any weakness.)

Pit ( I don't think any great player who camps with him will lose.)


Mid-high: Mario ( Has an inherently GREAT metagame. He's almost as comparitively good as he was in 64.)

Diddy ( doesn't he extremely high priority? Also, if you slip on bananas, you're screwed.)

Olimar ( seems reasonable)

Wolf ( Hate him, but his smash spamming is very fast and covers a lot of area.)

Marth ( was a toss-up with Wolf, but Marth's uber lag issues provoked Wolf to be higher)

Pikachu ( mind games are as bad*** as they were in 64. I know up B is expected, but it comes out fast and is hard to avoid out of any attack that sends them up vertically without any lag afterwards. Plus, bair is sick.)

Lucas ( seems reasonable)

Toon Link ( seems reasonable)

Climbers (seems reasonable)

Zelda ( seems reasonable)

Low-Middle:

DK ( seems reasonable)

Peach ( combo city)

Ness ( think he'll be higher eventually, just takes a lot of work to win with him)

PT ( seems reasonable)

Fox ( I don't think he's very good, honestly. Game physics screwed him over completely.)

Bowser ( seems reasonable)

Luigi ( seems reasonable)

Ike ( seems reasonable)

Shiek ( dang. Couldn't have been more nerfed. Still uber quick, though.)


Low:
Yoshi ( right where he SHOULD be)

ZSS ( seems reasonable)

Link ( seems reasonable)

Sonic ( seems reasonable)

Falcon ( seems reasonable)

Jigglypuff ( seems reasonable)


Bottom:
Samus ( I love using her, but she really can't kill at ALL until near 100 percent.)
Ganondorf ( just utterly horrible in every way.)

I have to clock in now.

 

[momochuu]

Oh, this is gonna be very epic. *Gets popcorn*

Kirby for high high tier. xD

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Lol.....I'm gonna enjoy this show to Bun *Takes some of your popcorn*

 

[Pieisthebest]

*takes out recliner and waits for flames*

 

[Snail]

List

Err, Kirby that high? He's a solid character and even though he's faster, stronger and heavier than he was in Melee, I don't think he deserves to be above Wario and Olimar at least :/

 

[SaxDude93]

How to make a tier list.
A Guide by Xiivi

That was awesome. Best Joke tier lise so far. Metalmonster needs to make an even better joke list, now.

 

[Corigames]

I think we ar eall waiting for someone to go off... and it's not me either. I'm pulling up a chair too. Does someone want me to grab drinks before I sit down though?

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I'll take a root beer if your still up (I'm surprised no one has, I'm unfortunately to nice about this stuff)