Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kirby-oh]

Aw, it's okay ._. We hate playing Meta Knights too >_>

Ouch, good one.

Ankoku should be updating the stats sometime today I think


btw dangr... you can't say that olimar's recovery is not among the worst in the game. It may not be the absolute worst, but it still sucks

It's not all that bad. Make sure to read his post carefully. Olimar can usually get back onto the stage purely by DI, Whistle, and second jump, and even if he doesn't comes close enough that the Yoshi-style slight upward motion in in his Chain can get him back up. This means that he WON'T be gimped at low % other than a situation like a Meteor at low % if the Olimar is at least decent.

I have more recovery issues with DK than Olimar.

 

[fkacyan]

Ankoku has two lists:

- Summer rankings
- Spring ranking

To my knowledge, at least. The bottom one is spring, and the top is summer. Or maybe the bottom is overall. I have no idea.

 

[Adapt]

Ankoku has 3 lists so to speak...
the old one from the spring that doesn't get updated anymore.
the summer list that has details that gets updated once a week
and the most up-to-date summer list with no details

of course the 2 summer lists are basically the same, but one is updated more often

 

[Shears]

ive played a few olimars. i havent played any top professional olimars, but ive played a few. i main metaknight and have no trouble killing olimar at all. now metaknight may or may not be a bad matchup for olimar, but assuming he is, ive also played olimars with my ROB, diddy kong, falco, and wolf. those four characters im not that good with and dont use in tournaments because im not good enough to be competitive with them. with those four characters, however, i can still kill olimar without much difficulty. now granted the olimar may suck, if he is a high tier worthy character, i shouldnt be able to beat him so easily with so many different characters, most of which ive only played around with for a couple days. with a meteor smash or a character that has good recovery, olimar shouldnt be too tough to beat if you can get him off the edge. chase him off the edge to get rid of the second jump, edgehog, and olimar doesnt have much left except hoping his upB will stage spike you and KO you before he dies on the last life.

maybe ROB, diddy kong, falco, wolf, and metaknight are bad matchups for olimar. if thats the case then i dont think hes high tier material because, ROB, metaknight, falco, and wolf are being considered high tier material and if he sucks against the best it wont matter about being good against the worst.

 

[Kiwikomix]

i wish i had more olimar experience, i've only ever played against 1 olimar, and he was just ok, i ended up killing him pretty bad with ganon, lucas, and ness. nobody around iowa seems to play olimar at all.

Iowa eh? No, I've never seen an Oli around here. Too bad, I need more practice against him.


Seeing people consistently saying that Olimar has a very gimpable recovery makes me think that I should make a "common misconceptions thread", where there are things like "Meta-Knight can't KO" or "Yoshi's lack of shield jumping is a huge problem" or "everyone can chaingrab Ness". It's getting kind of ridiculous, because these are terrible misconceptions, and yet I see people posting them all the time.

 

[linkbrawler77]

Toon Link

Toon Link is very fast and has the same strong attacks and the orignal link, toon link's bomb attack has a wider range.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Toon Link is very fast and has the same strong attacks and the orignal link, toon link's bomb attack has a wider range.

ZOMG BEST POST EVER!!!1111!1!11oneone

 

[~ Gheb ~]

ive played a few olimars. i havent played any top professional olimars, but ive played a few. i main metaknight and have no trouble killing olimar at all. now metaknight may or may not be a bad matchup for olimar, but assuming he is, ive also played olimars with my ROB, diddy kong, falco, and wolf. those four characters im not that good with and dont use in tournaments because im not good enough to be competitive with them. with those four characters, however, i can still kill olimar without much difficulty. now granted the olimar may suck, if he is a high tier worthy character, i shouldnt be able to beat him so easily with so many different characters, most of which ive only played around with for a couple days. with a meteor smash or a character that has good recovery, olimar shouldnt be too tough to beat if you can get him off the edge. chase him off the edge to get rid of the second jump, edgehog, and olimar doesnt have much left except hoping his upB will stage spike you and KO you before he dies on the last life.

maybe ROB, diddy kong, falco, wolf, and metaknight are bad matchups for olimar. if thats the case then i dont think hes high tier material because, ROB, metaknight, falco, and wolf are being considered high tier material and if he sucks against the best it wont matter about being good against the worst.

Olimar outranges a whole bunch of enemies, since he attacks with his pikmin. He's quite fast, can rank up damage easily and has some nice finishers (dsmash, usmash, bair, fair). His tourney rankings are also remarkable. That Olimar you fought against must have sucked.
I'm not sure about his matchups but I cant really see, why he's supposed to have problems with Diddy Kong and Falco. I know he's said to have problems against Wolf, R.O.B and MK so you were either lucky with the characters you choose or he was just bad.
Olimars projectile is possibly the best in the game, so he has advantages against most projectile-less characters

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

ZOMG BEST POST EVER!!!1111!1!11oneone

yay for new avatar.

 

[Pitbull]

Olimar can be a tough matchup for anyone who normally doesn't play him, but once you can figure out how to gimp his recovery it's all over. Olimars recovery has to be one of the easiest to take advantage of in the game. Just edge hog him and he's done. :D

 

[_Phloat_]

Keeping a smart Olimar off the edge isn't easy.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, Edghogging shouldn't be that hard vs Olimar

 

[ShadowLink84]

Best way to keep Olimar off the stage, using someone whose aerial attacks hit multiple times.
That way when Olimar whistles the attack is still going and he'll be smacked away.

Thats really the best method which not many characters can do.

 

[Pitbull]

Keeping a smart Olimar off the edge isn't easy.

This is true but I'm a R.O.B. main and from what I've seen R.O.B. is a very tricky matchup for Olimar.

 

[Snail]

ive played a few olimars. i havent played any top professional olimars, but ive played a few. i main metaknight and have no trouble killing olimar at all. now metaknight may or may not be a bad matchup for olimar, but assuming he is, ive also played olimars with my ROB, diddy kong, falco, and wolf. those four characters im not that good with and dont use in tournaments because im not good enough to be competitive with them. with those four characters, however, i can still kill olimar without much difficulty. now granted the olimar may suck, if he is a high tier worthy character, i shouldnt be able to beat him so easily with so many different characters, most of which ive only played around with for a couple days. with a meteor smash or a character that has good recovery, olimar shouldnt be too tough to beat if you can get him off the edge. chase him off the edge to get rid of the second jump, edgehog, and olimar doesnt have much left except hoping his upB will stage spike you and KO you before he dies on the last life.

maybe ROB, diddy kong, falco, wolf, and metaknight are bad matchups for olimar. if thats the case then i dont think hes high tier material because, ROB, metaknight, falco, and wolf are being considered high tier material and if he sucks against the best it wont matter about being good against the worst.

I suggest ensuring your opponents don't suck before using them as an argument why a character isn't worthy of a high-tier spot. I don't have trouble killing scrubby MKs with any character in the game, does that make MK a bad character? Cause if he was good, I should have a hard time killing him! That just makes no sense.

Olimar isn't going to die nearly as easily as some of you say. And even though I can't deny that his recovery is among the worst in the game, that weakness doesn't kill the character as a whole. He deserves a high-tier spot with his tournament rankings and potential, even if his recovery sucks.

 

[Pitbull]

I suggest ensuring your opponents don't suck before using them as an argument why a character isn't worthy of a high-tier spot. I don't have trouble killing scrubby MKs with any character in the game, does that make MK a bad character? Cause if he was good, I should have a hard time killing him! That just makes no sense.

Olimar isn't going to die nearly as easily as some of you say. And even though I can't deny that his recovery is among the worst in the game, that weakness doesn't kill the character as a whole. He deserves a high-tier spot with his tournament rankings and potential, even if his recovery sucks.

Don't get me wrong Olimar is a great character. I know and fight a good Olimar on a daily basis and from what I've seen he has some great strengths in general but a MASSIVE weakness in his recovery. I could definately see him at the high-tier spot but it's very questionable when you look at his recovery.

 

[Snail]

Don't get me wrong Olimar is a great character. I know and fight a good Olimar on a daily basis and from what I've seen he has some great strengths in general but a MASSIVE weakness in his recovery. I could definately see him at the high-tier spot but it's very questionable when you look at his recovery.

Melee Falco's recovery was about as bad as Olimar's in Brawl. Remember where he was on the tier list?

If Olimar died every time he fell off the edge, his tourney results wouldn't be what they are now. People can say he doesn't belong in the high tier because his recovery sucks, but Olimar wins matches, and that's what matters.

When I look at Ozz3000's tier list which I initially responded to, I see Olimar below Zelda, Fox, Luigi, Kirby... Olimar places way above all of them in the rankings list. Come on >:/

 

[adumbrodeus]

Melee Falco's recovery was about as bad as Olimar's in Brawl. Remember where he was on the tier list?

If Olimar died every time he fell off the edge, his tourney results wouldn't be what they are now. People can say he doesn't belong in the high tier because his recovery sucks, but Olimar wins matches, and that's what matters.

When I look at Ozz3000's tier list which I initially responded to, I see Olimar below Zelda, Fox, Luigi, Kirby... Olimar places way above all of them in the rankings list. Come on >:/

Agreed, it's definitely a disadvantage, but it must be considered compared to his strengths, on average can he kill faster then he dies? If so, does it REALLY matter?

 

[DanGR]

repsonses in green

maybe ROB, diddy kong, falco, wolf, and metaknight are bad matchups for olimar.

Rob and MK are two of Olimar's hardest matchups. Diddy, Falco, and Wolf go even. Having cleared that up, both Rob and MK can totally shut down anyone's recovery. That's not an Olimar weakness. That's a character specific advantage they both have over everyone. Diddy is hard for Olimar b/c the bananas give Olimar's ground game some trouble. Falco is even(maybe 55/45 Olimar) b/c the lasers give Olimar some trouble. He has a couple priority issues as well.
if thats the case then i dont think hes high tier material because, ROB, metaknight, falco, and wolf are being considered high tier material and if he sucks against the best it wont matter about being good against the worst.

What's it matter if he's bad against Rob, MK, Kirby, Marth, and Yoshi?(excluding yoshi and kirby, they're all at the top of high tier) Those are his only disadvantages, and most high tier characters have more than that. Lucario, DK, and Wario all have more disadvantages against more characters than Olimar does. so by your reasoning, they don't deserve high tier???

Olimar outranges a whole bunch of enemies, since he attacks with his pikmin. He's quite fast, can rank up damage easily and has some nice finishers (dsmash, usmash, bair, fair). His tourney rankings are also remarkable. That Olimar you fought against must have sucked.
I'm not sure about his matchups but I cant really see, why he's supposed to have problems with Diddy Kong and Falco.
he doesn't. they're both nuetral.
I know he's said to have problems against Wolf, R.O.B and MK so you were either lucky with the characters you choose or he was just bad.
I think it's both. Rob and MK are Olimar's hardest matchups. both about 7:3. Wolf is maybe 55:45, more or less.
Olimars projectile is possibly the best in the game, so he has advantages against most projectile-less characters
he also has the advantage against most projectile spammers too.

Olimar can be a tough matchup for anyone who normally doesn't play him, but once you can figure out how to gimp his recovery it's all over. Olimars recovery has to be one of the easiest to take advantage of in the game. Just edge hog him and he's done. :D
I hope you were kidding...

Don't get me wrong Olimar is a great character. I know and fight a good Olimar on a daily basis and from what I've seen he has some great strengths in general but a MASSIVE weakness in his recovery. I could definately see him at the high-tier spot but it's very questionable when you look at his recovery.
You main his hardest matchups. I bet I could make the best CF main in the world look like an idiot with Olimar.

 

[Critical King]

To be quite honest I'd put jiggz and samus beneath ganon, but yeah pretty much.

oh well i will still use ganondorf anyway gonna be tough tho

 

[asob4]

olimar's placings and his match ups are what make him high tier.
he has a favorable match up against the best character in the game (snake)
not many characters can say they have that
olimar has one main weakness that is easy to get around, his strengths outweigh it heavily
his combo's are amazing and quick early kills on almost every character are among many reasons olimar is high tier

also, don't go by the match up chart here, check the one on AiB. olimar was recently finished and he has a lot of advantages and neutrals. very few disadvantages.

 

[philbobjoe]

You were the only one really arguing about Olimar's matchups...

 

[asob4]

is that a problem? what is wrong with stating his match ups?
match ups are very important to a tier list.
good match ups + good placings + strengths/weaknesses = tier placement

and they were mentioned in other posts

 

[Juanda991]

snake is really broken =(

 

[Deathcarter]

snake is really broken =(

Lets give this guy the Nobel Piece Prize!!!

 

[Hoobs]

Lets give this guy the Nobel Piece Prize!!!

is that a pun? or cant you spell peace

 

[sHy)(gUy]

If u want to see some good olimar playing go to the video section and watch connor(i believe) play him. This guy is really good @ brawl.. i know hes won some tournaments. You can see what oli can do to snake and meta @ high level play. And whats seen is only a fraction of what hes capable of.

*edit heres the vid:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8BsTRqRVhXU

*its actually mr x playing olimar not connor,my bad

 

[stoopdklutz]

snake is really broken =(

You, sir. have won the internet.

Olimar has a lot of strengths and few weaknesses. His major weakness, recovery, is somewhat canceled out by his floatiness. When I play my friend who plays Olimar, who is decent, almost every time I knock him off the stage, he doesn't have to use his up-b because he is so floaty.

People who auto-assume that tether recovery= fail need to see the character as a whole. Olimar is floaty, so he doesn't really get caught under the stage and get forced to use the up-b.
Zamus is also floaty, and she has a third jump, and THEN her tether. Ivysaur can use razor leaf to knock edgeguarders off, although that is sort of hard to pull off.

I firmly believe that Olimar should be in the lower half of high tier. When critiquing a character, you shouldn't focus on their weaknessess alone, you should see how they affect the character as a whole.

 

[asob4]

If u want to see some good olimar playing go to the video section and watch connor(i believe) play him. This guy is really good @ brawl.. i know hes won some tournaments. You can see what oli can do to snake and meta @ high level play. And whats seen is only a fraction of what hes capable of.

*edit heres the vid:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8BsTRqRVhXU

yeah, that's mr. x
we all know how good he is on the olimar boards and all around so cal.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Ya, and after watching what olimar is capable of in that video against a top level snake u cant sit there and tell me hes mid-tier.. u see even with his messed up recovery @ the beggening he more than makes up for it everywhere else. Its just like in meele when falco misses the ledge and look where is on the tier list(that was a goid analogy whoever said it)

 

[Shears]

@dangr

i dont have lucario or dk at high tier on my tier list. if rob, mk, and marth have a significant advantage over olimar and theyre all high tier then why would he be high tier. youre also saying wolf and falco have a slight advantage over him and those two are both widely placed within high tier. now again ill say if he sucks against the best, why would it matter if hes great against the worst? most of the high tier characters have either an advantage or are neutral with him. this means he wont have the success these other characters will. captain falcons and marios arent winning the big tournaments so olimar beating the two scrubs in the first rounds wont give him the win because the high tier, advantageous, mk rob and marth are going to win. if you cant beat any characters in the high tier than why would you deserve high tier? because you can beat scrubs? idk but all im saying is olimar, imo, doesnt deserve high tier status because in a year when everyones maining MK, snake, rob, and dedede olimar wont stand a chance (like in melee how everyone mained fox).

 

[sHy)(gUy]

did u even watch the video?, olimar is clearly in the same league as other predicted high tiers.... Saying olimar wont stand a chance in the future once other characters take over is wrong because olimar will be one of those top characters. Just stop trying, ur wrong, again.... olimar-high tier eod...

 

[Shears]

Its just like in meele when falco misses the ledge and look where is on the tier list(that was a goid analogy whoever said it)

no, falco has vertical recovery and horizontal recovery beyond olimars upB. even though it sucked it still beats olimars recovery. he has the opportunity to knock you off stage and grab on while olimar cant do that kind of multitasking with his tether.

 

[Shears]

yah i did, the snake was alright and the metaknight wasnt that good.

 

[adumbrodeus]

did u even watch the video?, olimar is clearly in the same league as other predicted high tiers.... Saying olimar wont stand a chance in the future once other characters take over is wrong because olimar will be one of those top characters. Just stop trying, ur wrong, again.... olimar-high tier eod...

You misunderstood his point.


Olimar's problem is that he lacks good match-ups with too many high tier characters, which means he won't be able to hold out in tournaments.

It doesn't matter if he's got good things he can do, if he just can't beat any of the expected high tier characters you just can't put him into high tier, it's that simple.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

lol... lacks good match-ups with hier tier characters? ur joking right...

His most difficult matchups would probly be metaknight & r.o.b, other than that he probly matches up better against snake than almost any character. Falco,marth,dedede,g&w,wario are all almost even... in fact i would give olimar the slight advantage.

 

[adumbrodeus]

lol... lacks good match-ups with hier tier characters? ur joking right...

His most difficult matchups would probly be metaknight & r.o.b, other than that he probly matches up better against snake than almost any character. Falco,marth,dedede,g&w,wario are all almost even... in fact i would give olimar the slight advantage.

His point, not mine...

I find that he's oversimplifying because the mentioned characters are not all the field is composed of.


But lol at Olimar having the advantage against all those characters, G&W he does, but the rest, a convincing people of that is definitely an uphill battle, though I invite you to try in the match-up thread.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

idk but all im saying is olimar, imo, doesnt deserve high tier status because in a year when everyones maining MK, snake, rob, and dedede olimar wont stand a chance (like in melee how everyone mained fox).

Olimar beats Snake and Dedede. MK and ROB beat him though, those are his worst matchups. Most Olimars would have a secondary for those 2, if they really can't win it with him.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Uhhhh...how does Olimar go even with Marth and G&W?

Especially G&W.

He is hax.

 

[Jing)]

yea samus definitely deserves like Middle of Low.. peoples need to stop saying bottom =\