Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[trademark0013]

u cant, but u can tell whose good easily by movesets and other things

also, the tier list wont be near perfect for a couple years. we learn this from melee and other fighting games

 

[Nova X81]

I've played a good bit at this point... so my guesses at tiers are prob about as good as anyone else's at this point.

High Tier:

Ike
Zero Suit Samus
Metaknight
Pit
Marth
Wolf
Fox
Kirby
(Squirtle)
King Dedede
Toon Link
Sheik
Lucas

Mid Tier:

Falco
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Mario
Luigi
Olimar
Pokemon Trainer (Based on average: 1 high tier pokemon, 1 low tier pokemon, 1 mid tier pokemon...)
(Charizard)
Sonic
Snake
Peach
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Jigglypuff
Link
R.O.B.
Game + Watch
Ness
Ice Climbers
Zelda

Low Tier:

Bowser
Lucario
Wario
(Ivysaur)
Samus (Power Suit)
Ganon
Yoshi

dont think I forgot anyone. I could prob split the "High Tier" into a High and Top, but for now, 3 tiers is a good generalization until more information and techniques with the characters is discovered.

 

[himynameisruss]

Diddy For Top Tier

 

[AquaTech]

Marth WILL be top tier. Diddy will be high up as well. Those are the only facts I know so far.

 

[Crazy Hobo]

Haven't seen much on Zelda. She has won some tournaments from Japan release, and after playing her with my friends she is really good. She is quick and seems to have high priority. She has decent range and some good killing moves. Has anyone fought against a good Zelda who juggled you as you tried to recover? All in all the only bad things are her downtilt(Dunno, I just don't use it) Neutral B and hir third jump is hard to control(Could take some getting used to.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Marth seems to be a lot like before, except a lot of his attacks went from having ridiculous priority and range to having ridiculous priority and range only in the direction that he attacks (e.g. in his fsmash, he only swings it in front of him instead of over his head and in front of him). Has anyone suggested a new tier list after having played the game, even though it's probably too soon to tell? I'm trying to figure out which of the characters I use is top tier XD


EDIT: oh frig, i should have looked like two posts up...haha.....but I dunno, i disagree with it slightly, I guess tier discussion should be left for the back room...i don't think ike should be very high up, although i think he should be around high high tier, and zelda should be MUCH higher up than that. other than that I'm not sure, I don't own the game -_-'

 

[NilliX]

Dedede is really that good?

Diddy is really that average?

Yoshi still sucks?

Laugh...

 

[ShadowLink84]

I don't believe Ike should be so very high up. Anyone can see his attacks coming from a mile away . He execels at FFA where its very busy but in a 1v1 most of the characters do better than him.

 

[kciD]

I put my vote in for Wolf. I played him a little last night, and he's good. His smash moves have good range AND KO potential, his bair can keep off the edge and KO at high percent, uair is a good juggler at low percent, fair is a good knockback, dair is a good spike/meteor/whatever.

The only problem I've seen with him so far is his recovery from below the stage. Luckily, his forward+B lifts him up a little (and goes pretty far), unlike fox and falco, but his up+B doesn't go as far, and if you are away from the edge enough, you can't really DI toward it when you're falling down afterwards.

Also, if you hit your opponent with the gun when you pull it out, it knocks them back and does damage, plus the laser also hits them. That saves "oops I lasered when they were too close" a lot of the times.


And about Zelda...Din's fire is dumb and can juggle to death a LOT. It has mad range and good knockback to combo another one in from far away, and no more lag before the explosion. So Zelda's really good.

 

[M@v]

Meta Knight, Pit, ZSS look to be high on the list. Princess Zelda has gotten a lot better in this one, especially her dins fire. I think shell move up from melee. king dededed is a freaking tank. Like people said, its too early to tell.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

my high tier predictions: (no order)

Marth- buffed from melee, despite short range
Metaknight - best combo ability, smashes and nair kill
Pit - great combo ability/mindgames
Lucas - zelda esque and feels like n64 ness
Olimar - imo the most unbalanced character. ridicoulosly fast and powerful smashes.
Wolf - great combo ability and strong
ZSS - insane range and combos
Lucario - aura effect could be utilized well, great range
Zelda - ridiculously buffed from melee

 

[LolNewbie]

anyone really try Zelda yet? shes not bad this time around i can see her being mid teir

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I think Zelda has a lot of potential to be high tier this time around. She hits like a truck and the improvements on Din's fire and down smash are really nice.

As for tiers I still think it's too early to tell who's good and who's not. The game really feels pretty balanced outside of a couple of characters who are kinda bad. I have no idea who I would put at the top.

 

[GhettoSheep]

My thoughts after 5-10 hours or so

in no particular order...

Top
Marth - Buffed, a lot. If it weren't for his decreased range he would be entirely broken
Zelda/Shiek - Zelda has great power and priority, shiek's fair got nerfed but everything else still works
Toon Link - Absurdly fast and has great combos and ko potential, who woulda guessed
Pit - Great variety of moves, quick, great arials, recovery, power, and that mirror is crazy

High
Meta Knight - Insane combos, would be top tier if he could ko better
Lucas - Ghetto Ness with a stick can just pwn, but can get gimped by chars with more range
Diddy - SPIKE, and bananas are just ridiculous
DDD - He really is that good yes, chain throws and hammers ftw
Wolf - The best spacie i think, fast, priority, ko potential, all around good, except maybe his recovery

There are a ton of middle tier characters so im not gonna even bother

 

[Pikamander2]

I just thought I would throw this out: Dedede's neutral A is actually pretty good. Otherwise, he doesn't seem that great. That makes me sad, because I was going to main him. Of course, his recovery sort of makes up for it...

EDIT: Well, his neutral A isn't actually that great...

 

[BDawgPHD]

I don't believe Ike should be so very high up. Anyone can see his attacks coming from a mile away . He execels at FFA where its very busy but in a 1v1 most of the characters do better than him.

Ike is definitely like god tier for teams and FFA's, I agree. But I think he's not a bad character for 1v1's either, and with practice he can be a really good character for them. He's like melee Ganondorf, except stronger and with more range. He's got a slightly bowser-esque fsmash, which I admit is somewhat hard to hit, except with a really good tech chase (although with brawl being generally slower it's not **** near impossible by any means), he's got a ganon-esque fair with more range and a bit less knockback, he's got a spike...or meteor maybe, but it's like Ganon's meteor.....very strong and will probably kill even if cancelled just due to sheer knockback, his utilt is deceitfully fast/strong, the rest of his aerials are pretty good, his jab isn't too bad, and he has a counter. Did I mention his dtaunt is top tier? You know, the one where he slams his sword into the ground as his tattered cape flows in the breeze and he says "veto this **** ***gots"?

I'm kind of ****ing tired, as most of us are from playing brawl for days since it came out so feel free to argue with me about it, since I don't own the game and want to learn things

 

[GhettoSheep]

DDD's neutral a is great actually, i ko's a marth with it at 120, and his bair is great, recovery is just amazing, and can even dededecide (there has to be a better way to say that)

but the chain throw to bair and then edge guarding is a great strategy, sometimes they get out of the chain throw but then you also have his ->B

oh man i love ddd

also, as mentioned earlier, he's a tank

 

[Rubyiris]

Ike KO's people at ridiculously low %'s, and his recoveries are immensely hard to edge guard. He's high tier. Anyone who says otherwise should rethink this.

Well, honestly it's too early to really say anything. The SBR will put a list out once the game matures.

It is fun to discuss, though. :3

 

[shortwanabelaker]

after non stop playing for 4 days i honestly think sonic is gonna be top tier

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Marth isn't buffed. Please reconsider.

My thoughts, in order, I guess:

Metaknight - His approach is really good. His edgeguard game is good. His recovery is good (his up+b is probably the best in the game). His combos are good, way better than some other characters. All of his aerial game is good. I find it hard to get inside metaknight, especially since he just has such a big fluidity advantage over other characters.

Marth - Lol wtf fsmash out of shield? Really quite well rounded and it seems his metagame has room for improvement.

From there on, I think it's harder to judge, but I do see:

- Pit
-Mario
- Snake
- Pikachu
- Diddy
- Zelda

And there are a couple others who are good. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the above characters placing well in future tournaments.

 

[LolNewbie]

just unlocked toon link. hes sick. i think brawls gonna have more charactors in the higher teirs then in the lower ones

 

[pass the syrup]

I played with all of the characters yesterday and my personal opinion is that Diddy, PT (especially Squirtle), Pit, and Marth are the best.

Diddy has awesome combos and his spike is liquid sex. His recovery has a huge range if used correctly and the bananas are so annoying. He is a beast in the air.

Pokemon Trainer is good because he is adaptable. Charizard's rock smash does lots of damage and he is hard to kill. Ivysaur's u-air and u-smash are good and bullet seed can be an amazing damage racker. Squirtle is the best though. His air game is insane. He floats around forever and his moves come out extremely fast.

Pit is just crazy because you can just about recover from anything that doesn't send you flying to your death. His projectile is decent and his side b is fun to annoy people with.

Marth is still just as manly you can get while wearing a tiara. His range is shortened but everything else is the same if not better. His f smash still comes out quickly and has decent KO potential, and his air game is very good.

 

[Deleted member]

I've played as Yoshi, and he's not all that bad. I say at least mid tier.

 

[Kai_]

After playing many matches of Brawl, I've gotta say that Pikachu has far surpassed my expectations and has earned a spot as my main, easily.

Pika should be very high in the tier this time around.

 

[The Mediator]

I honestly don't think that Metaknight has enough kill moves to be top tier.

 

[Zink]

OK, Ike is good. Yes. Who cares if you land 1 move to the enemy's 4, if you only need 3 moves to kill lolz. Recovery is not that good, as QD is blocked so easily.
CF is top tier, simply because of the SSE video where he first appears. NOTHING IS MANLIER THAN THAT.
Metaknight is good but not amazing. he can chain fairs/bairs, but not much killing power in him. plus, as good as his recovery is, it's just not as good as the really good ones like ROB or Pit.
Snake is prolly the most fun character I've played, and all I do is spam mines, c4, nades, mortar, and nikita. basically, I explode things, and they die. plus ftilt is aaaaahhhhhhh too good.
PT is good but I don't like Ivy, he feels awkward.
Marf is broken, game set.

 

[Robin60062]

Pika's d-smash is an upkill and sucks opponents in. It should be high on the list.

 

[shortwanabelaker]

i honestly think this game is balanced as hell. after a tier list is made, and 2 people of equal ability play each other, one being the best character and one the worst, it will still be a really close game, no 4 stocking

 

[Cyrahk]

I think Pikachu has certainly gotten better in Brawl.

Marth has gotten a little weaker in terms of the ridiculous striking difference he had.

Since its one chara, I think Pokemon trainer will be quite low, but Squirtle is definitely going to be a higher tier. He's quite agile in the air and really lays the damage on in combos.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

i honestly think this game is balanced as hell. after a tier list is made, and 2 people of equal ability play each other, one being the best character and one the worst, it will still be a really close game, no 4 stocking

Lol, no 4stocks because we play 3-stock matches. Unless someone gets JV'd... and that would be ****.

I honestly don't think that Metaknight has enough kill moves to be top tier.

I'd say he does... as hard as it is to edgeguard, MK manages to do it quite often. His dsmash is a **** finisher. Up+B can sometimes finish combos, or by itself it is a killer. His tilts are all good, too...

It's more the fact that it's hard to touch him. And once you do, he'll airdodge out of most combos (well, I guess it's Brawl that does that). Approach is uber important in this game, because you'll be doing it so much more often than in melee - in the predecessor you could combo-> edgeguard for most of a stock, whereas Brawl seems to be a [hit-combobreaker-try to hit again] kind of game. Am I kinda making sense?

I think Pikachu has certainly gotten better in Brawl.

Marth has gotten a little weaker in terms of the ridiculous striking difference he had.

Since its one chara, I think Pokemon trainer will be quite low, but Squirtle is definitely going to be a higher tier. He's quite agile in the air and really lays the damage on in combos.

I'd agree with everything you say. But let us not forget Pikachu's godliness in ssb64 and amazing superiority in the topic of coolness in melee.

 

[Citanul]

I honestly don't think that Metaknight has enough kill moves to be top tier.

agreed

Toon Link is definitely up there though. I don't know about Ike being top though. Maybe I haven't played against many good Ike players but I feel like I can mostly avoid him and chip away at him.

 

[Jaxx]

I gotta say so far,

Olimar
Marth
Sexy suit samus(ZSS, but that sounds so much better)

should be considered for top tier

ZSS- for her massive combo ability, and forward b...broken as hell. Comes out hella quick, and ***** your ****.

Marth-Foward smash out of shield....even with his downgrades he hasn't changed at all, almost, and he has massive tip priority every where.(d smash for example) He's just faster than most of the charecters.

Olimar-All types of **** on another level. The only thing about him thats really bad is the fact that you can tether guard him. He ***** marth like none other, mainly because marth has no other options than to smash to get the pikmin off of him, and thats what I like to call, free money.

Right outside that though is Diddy, D3, Lucario, Toon Link(boomarang cancel ftw)

 

[I.T.P]

I've written this for the "brawl is more balanced" thread, but I'll put it here as well

the tops are not leagues over the highs, Marth may be a good all around character, but none of his smashes kill as easily as luigis firepunch combo, or Lucas' Usmash, or Ikes Ftilt, or many other great moves in the game, yes he has comboability, but it can be avoided by forseeing it and airdodging correctly, yes he has edge guarding, but there are many things you can do against it, I see a character where one grab can get you from 0% to(ICs Fair and Popo-Nana combos) KO as much more annoying than a character which has a lot of good things, but none of them are ultimate or unbeatable, they're just good.

the way I see it, brawl has a humongous amount of balanced characters, which are divided into groups of potential, and also has a strong counter-pick sort of metagame, where knowing characters with diffrent styles will really help you out, and playing only your main character will leave you open to a big amount of counter pick downhill matches.

I see brawl as having around 10-12 top tier characters, 10-12 high tier characters,8-10 mid tier characters, and 5-7 low tier characters, which are underbalanced. the ones I'm apting for that category ATM, are gannon,Falcon,Yoshi,DK and maybe one more yet to be decided.

I also feel that mid tiers will have very good chances against tops, because of differing styles,ranges and tactics, and that ultimately a person playing 3 Mid tier characters, will have almost as good a chance of winning as one playing 3 Top tier characters.

also, I'm sure the tier list will get scrambled lots of times, but ATM my predictions for it are(in no particular order):

Top:
Luigi
Marth
Diddy
Meta knight
Pit
Olimar
PT
Zelda
DDD
Toon link
Wolf

High:
Peach
Zamus
Lucas
Ike
R.O.B
Snake
Mario
Wario
GaW
Ice Climbers
Falco
Lucario
Pikachu
Kirby

Mid:
Ness
Bowser
Fox
Sonic
Samus
Link
Shiek

Low:
Falcon
Gannon
Yoshi
DK
Jigglypuff

while Writing I felt diffrently for some character potentials, and ended up with a 11-14-7-5 formation. but that's my current feelings about character potentials.

also, aside from the low tier characters, the diffrence between mid and top is around the diffrence between high and top in melee, and between high and top is half that. that's how balanced this game feels to me.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

why is yoshi always low?

 

[I.T.P]

why is yoshi always low?

new third jump sucks
no DJC forces slower play stlye
most aerials and attacks nerfed
much less winning and improving potential than the rest of the cast.

for me, the diffrence between low and mid is very meaningful. if a character is in low, it means using that character will considerably lower your chances of winning against a player on the same skill level that's using a better character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

A Tipper f-smash from Marth can kill around 80 something.

He has extremly high killing potential.

Just throwing that out there.

Actually I would say he has the most kill moves out of everyone in the game.

Well the most viable kill moves anyway.

Edit: I think Shiek is high tier.

MAYBE Sonic could be at the bottom of high tier.

Just barely making it, but most likely he will be mid tier.

 

[I.T.P]

A Tipper f-smash from Marth can kill around 80 something.

He has extremly high killing potential.

Just throwing that out there.

Actually I would say he has the most kill moves out of everyone in the game.

Well the most viable kill moves anyway.

Edit: I think Shiek is high tier.

MAYBE Sonic could be at the bottom of high tier.

Just barely making it, but most likely he will be mid tier.

sheik completely lost her killing potential and a lot of her priority, playing shiek now requires thrice as much skill, and lost of planning. shiek also has many counters, and is relatively light. considering all of these, I see her potential as mid, and not high.

my tiers aren't ordered inside them, I can try and make an order in them, but it'll be much less accurate than the current list is.

and with all due respect, I feel you're overrating marth, he can easily get his *** ***** if the opponent plays correctly.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Overrate Marth?

Did I say he was unbeatable?

I stated a fact about him.

He has the most kill moves out of everyone in the game.

I never said he was a god.

Please tell me where I overrated him.

Edit: I also think Falco is top tier.

I'm undecided about Fox, but mid tier seems likely.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I've written this for the "brawl is more balanced" thread, but I'll put it here as well

the tops are not leagues over the highs, Marth may be a good all around character, but none of his smashes kill as easily as luigis firepunch combo, or Lucas' Usmash, or Ikes Ftilt, or many other great moves in the game, yes he has comboability, but it can be avoided by forseeing it and airdodging correctly, yes he has edge guarding, but there are many things you can do against it, I see a character where one grab can get you from 0% to(ICs Fair and Popo-Nana combos) KO as much more annoying than a character which has a lot of good things, but none of them are ultimate or unbeatable, they're just good.

the way I see it, brawl has a humongous amount of balanced characters, which are divided into groups of potential, and also has a strong counter-pick sort of metagame, where knowing characters with diffrent styles will really help you out, and playing only your main character will leave you open to a big amount of counter pick downhill matches.

I see brawl as having around 10-12 top tier characters, 10-12 high tier characters,8-10 mid tier characters, and 5-7 low tier characters, which are underbalanced. the ones I'm apting for that category ATM, are gannon,Falcon,Yoshi,DK and maybe one more yet to be decided.

I also feel that mid tiers will have very good chances against tops, because of differing styles,ranges and tactics, and that ultimately a person playing 3 Mid tier characters, will have almost as good a chance of winning as one playing 3 Top tier characters.

also, I'm sure the tier list will get scrambled lots of times, but ATM my predictions for it are(in no particular order):

Top:
Luigi
Marth
Diddy
Meta knight
Pit
Olimar
PT
Zelda
DDD
Toon link
Wolf

High:
Peach
Zamus
Lucas
Ike
R.O.B
Snake
Mario
Wario
GaW
Ice Climbers
Falco
Lucario
Pikachu
Kirby

Mid:
Ness
Bowser
Fox
Sonic
Samus
Link
Shiek

Low:
Falcon
Gannon
Yoshi
DK
Jigglypuff

while Writing I felt diffrently for some character potentials, and ended up with a 11-14-7-5 formation. but that's my current feelings about character potentials.

also, aside from the low tier characters, the diffrence between mid and top is around the diffrence between high and top in melee, and between high and top is half that. that's how balanced this game feels to me.

ITP, I know you've had the game longer than me so you probably have a better understanding of how characters play, but there are a few things I disagree with. First off is CF and DK in low tier. I know Falcon's been nerfed quite a bit, but he still has alot of combo potential and Knee combo-ability. I understand he's not the man god he was in Melee but he can still be played similarly to a very high end. The same can be said for DK as he seems to be in low tier simply because people havn't been playing him. His Bair is still highly spammable, if not more so as there seems to actually be LESS lag on in now, and his Uair is still beastly. His ground game isn't too bad as he has decent land speed and reach and his Donkey Punch is still to be feared. Im also not too fond of Ike as high tier. While he may be absolutely beastly in strength, and his Bair is very fast, he's too overly reliant on it, and with the new reduced knock back system he needs more for his air game. There's also the issue of his speed which is absolutely atrocious, and while his Forward B is usable as a means to move around the stage, with the new easy power shielding it seems really easy to punish. Ike is definitely not unplayable(like he was in the E for All demo >_>) but he's definitely not high tier material. Mid tier tops. There's also Peach, who, despite her Dsmash(or maybe, because of her Dsmash) can't possible be high tier anymore. She got hit hard with the nerf bat with the Dsmash but there's also her recovery, which has seen a drastic reduction due to her now minuscule second jump. While her horizontal recovery is still top tier, her vertical has become a huge issue. And her with her now unable to really fast fall from a parasol, she cant even mindgames->ledge anymore. And while I'm at it(even though I hate to do this) I have to bring up Kirby. He's just not high tier matierial, despite his huge amount of buffs. His aerial hammer and his Fsmash are both powerful finishers, but they're still tremendously difficult to land correctly as Air Hammer is easy to predict and Fsmash is still just as laggy as in Melee. He may not actually need a drop in the tier list, I just think you should extend the tier list to include him(and Ike and Peach) so as to remove a bit of the load from high tier.

 

[Emblem Lord]

CF and comboability don't belong in the same sentence when talking about Brawl.

Ike is high tier material for sure.

He has the tools needed to be high tier.

Peach...I'm not too sure about.

I think she will end up as mid though.

CF is low tier.

Mid tier at best.

I know nothing of DK so I won't comment on him.