Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

I never said I was pro- or anti-ban. If you've been paying attention to my posts, I'm actually neither. I'm all for Ultimate Power to the TO!

Youre telling me that theres mk banned tournaments that have delfino and frigate banned?
Im gonna need some verification on that. Because I run MK banned tournaments and delfino and frigate arent even close to bannable without mk. I even legalize brinstar and Rainbow cruise with a full list stage strike process and all of my events have played out fantastically. ive even had people strike to game one on rainbow cruise and frigate in tournament. thats how fair those stages are without mk.

Actually, that's just up to the preferences of the community. The Impacts had MK banned but they still didn't have Brinstar and PS2 legal. Just because MK's gone doesn't make these stages any more appealing. The problems with PS2, for most people, had nothing to do with MK. I could assume that a lot of Brinstar's problems aren't only fueled by MK as well. I could believe that other regions have Delfino and Frigate banned, even with MK gone. Frigate's flips are janky and can cause instant KOs at any %'s. I know that can be avoided, but some people/communities may just not want to deal with that. Delfino actually does make certain other characters really, really good. DDD is borderline broken here, IMO, and Jiggs gets a huge boost in viability from the stage.

Actually I dont agree, anyone that can compete with MK would likely be happy to have an MK vs a character that CP's theirs.

That's why you learn a secondary or you figure out how to stage CP, or otherwise fight, your way past bad MUs.

I'm not sure if my reply to delta-cod answered this. All characters that can compete with MK wouldnt need to ditto MK. The most unfair thing about MK is that hes the only fair character and doesnt have to suffer counterpicks.

As I explained in my previous post, that's actually the most unfair thing ever. The fact that he doesn't even have to suffer soft CPs is pretty ridiculous. In a game with this many characters, absolutely NO ONE should be able to get a 'free ride' through all the MUs without being CPd at least once. For instance, Seth is probably the very best char in SSF IV: AE 2012, but even he has about 5 or 6 losing MUs. Heck, even Fox in Melee has multiple even MUs (Falco, Marth, and arguably Samus). How does MK get by with only one even MU (which is questionable, no less).

Well I wasnt trying to reference brawl specifically. Think of this in more general terms. Which type of game do you prefer:

one with multiple distinct characters that all fight evenly with each other (maybe something like starcraft)?
or one with multiple distinct characters with half their MU's being at a strong advantage and another half being strong CPs?

The latter is not what Brawl would degrade to without MK, though. That kind of radical shift in MUs only really exists for DDD, the Low Tiers, and a few select Mid Tiers. FGs are always going to have their Low Tiers with their trash spreads, bodying some MUs and getting destroyed by others. Smash is particularly bad in that its Low Tiers don't even have that many winning or even MUs. They just lose. However, this doesn't change with MK in the picture. With MK gone, we still have "multiple distinct characters that all fight evenly with each other" and then we can have even more chars, like DDD, Lucario, and Pit, join this 'even mix'. If something turns out to be imbalanced, THEN you start shifting stagelists around to keep things somewhat even.

I agree, but at the same time Pro-ban needed a stronger argument since they were hoping for a national ban while anti-ban was not.

Is anyone here actually arguing for a national ban? I know I'm not. What the heck does a "national ban" even mean? Another scenario where if your tourney doesn't 'follow the rules', you lose out on benefits? No, thank you! I think many of us are saying that TOs should consider creating more MK-banned tourneys and we're giving good reasoning as to why that is the case. Nobody wants a sweeping law that rules the TOs the world over, as far as I know.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Actually, that's just up to the preferences of the community. The Impacts had MK banned but they still didn't have Brinstar and PS2 legal. Just because MK's gone doesn't make these stages any more appealing. The problems with PS2, for most people, had nothing to do with MK. I could assume that a lot of Brinstar's problems aren't only fueled by MK as well. I could believe that other regions have Delfino and Frigate banned, even with MK gone. Frigate's flips are janky and can cause instant KOs at any %'s. I know that can be avoided, but some people/communities may just not want to deal with that. Delfino actually does make certain other characters really, really good. DDD is borderline broken here, IMO, and Jiggs gets a huge boost in viability from the stage.


That's why you learn a secondary or you figure out how to stage CP, or otherwise fight, your way past bad MUs.


As I explained in my previous post, that's actually the most unfair thing ever. The fact that he doesn't even have to suffer soft CPs is pretty ridiculous. In a game with this many characters, absolutely NO ONE should be able to get a 'free ride' through all the MUs without being CPd at least once. For instance, Seth is probably the very best char in SSF IV: AE 2012, but even he has about 5 or 6 losing MUs. Heck, even Fox in Melee has multiple even MUs (Falco, Marth, and arguably Samus). How does MK get by with only one even MU (which is questionable, no less).


The latter is not what Brawl would degrade to without MK, though. That kind of radical shift in MUs only really exists for DDD, the Low Tiers, and a few select Mid Tiers. FGs are always going to have their Low Tiers with their trash spreads, bodying some MUs and getting destroyed by others. Smash is particularly bad in that its Low Tiers don't even have that many winning or even MUs. They just lose. However, this doesn't change with MK in the picture. With MK gone, we still have "multiple distinct characters that all fight evenly with each other" and then we can haveeven more chars, like DDD, Lucario, and Pit join this 'even mix'. If something turns out to be imbalanced, THEN you start shifting stagelists around to keep things somewhat even.


Is anyone here actually arguing for a national ban? I know I'm not. What the heck does a "national ban" even mean? Another scenario where if your tourney doesn't 'follow the rules', you lose out on benefits? No, thank you! I think many of us are saying that TOs should consider creating more MK-banned tourneys and we're giving good reasoning as to why that is the case. Nobody wants a sweeping law that rules the TOs the world over, as far as I know.

I'm still confused on how Pit is pretty high on the *** tier list compared to our tier list.. we must be playing him wrong or something. IDK. Crazy **** and their J-pop and robots...

 

[Tesh]

Anyone in North America that wants to see the MK banned metagame at its peak once again, get ready to put your money where your mouth is. The legendary Xyro himself has announced that WHOBO 5 (the finale) will be MK banned once again. Same rules as last year, any MK with the balls to show up gets to enter for free.

If you like seeing the best Snakes in the country get styled on by Ike, Donkey Kong getting top 5 or Toon Link putting in work during Winner's Finals, you won't want to miss this year's Whobo. After this, Xyro won't be returning until Smash 4 returns and Brawl is nothing but dust.

This will likely be the last MK banned national, once people see Smash 4 is on the way, I guarantee there won't be enough of a Brawl community left to argue about rulesets.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

until Smash 4 returns

Wait Smash 4 has been here before?

oh right Project M ^_^

 

[B0NK]

Got 'ems

 

[Tesh]

Oh, i guess im stupid. Oh well I'm not going to edit it, I'm sure you get the gist of my post.

Bottom line, this will be the last big Brawl tournament in Houston and probably the last big MK banned event in North America.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Anyone in North America that wants to see the MK banned metagame at its peak once again, get ready to put your money where your mouth is. The legendary Xyro himself has announced that WHOBO 5 (the finale) will be MK banned once again. Same rules as last year, any MK with the balls to show up gets to enter for free.

If you like seeing the best Snakes in the country get styled on by Ike, Donkey Kong getting top 5 or Toon Link putting in work during Winner's Finals, you won't want to miss this year's Whobo. After this, Xyro won't be returning until Smash 4 returns and Brawl is nothing but dust.

This will likely be the last MK banned national, once people see Smash 4 is on the way, I guarantee there won't be enough of a Brawl community left to argue about rulesets.

Well the good thing is, is that this discussion can be brought over to SSB4 to avoid things like this possibly happening again (hopefully NB is doing the balancing of characters)

Also the whole MK gets in for free thing.. What? Explain this to me please lool.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Noobs. I'm still going to play Brawl once Smash 4ree comes out.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Noobs. I'm still going to play Brawl once Smash 4ree comes out.

Good for you!

 

[bubbaking]

What do you mean "any MK with the balls to show up gets to enter for free"? Do you mean that any known MK main who comes gets to enter for free but has to play another character?

 

[RaptorTEC]

Bubba go home you're drunk.

 

[Tesh]

If you main MK (not pocket) and you come to Whobo 5 in houston tx, you will enter singles and doubles for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. no money down. Obv you still gotta pay to get there and do side events if u want and w/e the venue fee might be, but u enter the main events free. Xyro did it last year and people like Atomsk, Ally, Dojo, Inui and Pwii entered free. Atomsk and Ally even made money.

Of course he is gonna need proof you main MK, so it mostly applies to known players. You can't just be like "i use mk on the nintendo wifi ladder roomz can i enter free pls?"

@bubba, its mk banned, how the hell would that work if we let them play MK? they main mk, they enter free but obviously they cant use MK in the tournament.

 

[B0NK]

What do you mean "any MK with the balls to show up gets to enter for free"? Do you mean that any known MK main who comes gets to enter for free but has to play another character?

Yes, I believe that was clear

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

What do you mean "any MK with the balls to show up gets to enter for free"? Do you mean that any known MK main who comes gets to enter for free but has to play another character?

wub

 

[B0NK]

Come on space breakfast

Oh you edited your post... Got me

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Come on space breakfast

I GET IT NOW. Sorry us space breakfast's are pretty slow

 

[RaptorTEC]

Has any MK ever really been far even as to decide to use even go want to do look more smashville like?

 

[B0NK]

Has any MK ever really been far even as to decide to use even go want to do look more smashville like?

Yes, MK has ever really been far even as to decide to use even go want to do look more smashville like.

And that's why he's ban-worthy

 

[Jabejazz]

Has any MK ever really been far even as to decide to use even go want to do look more smashville like?

Obviously.

Holy ****, people are dense tonight.

 

[bubbaking]

So I was right? Sheesh, people! Yes, I know it's MK banned Tesh. That's why your post made no sense. "Any MKs enter for free?" Would it hurt you to add "mains" to your sentence?

 

[Dekillsage]

Guys I have decided to drop my main and pick up MoneyKnight.

Please hold back your tears

 

[Jabejazz]

Would it hurt you to add "mains" to your sentence?

Guys I have decided to drop my main and pick up MoneyKnight.

Please hold back your tears

 

[Tesh]

So I was right? Sheesh, people! Yes, I know it's MK banned Tesh. That's why your post made no sense. "Any MKs enter for free?" Would it hurt you to add "mains" to your sentence?

Generally when people in this thread accuse you of being ******** or a troll, I try to see things your way and not be a jerk to you about it. But this time...I'm having difficulty doing that.

I'm a Sonic, when I enter a low tier tournament, I'm still a Sonic even though I can't use sonic in this particular event.

Dojo is a MK, when he enters a MK banned event, he is still a MK.

I'm sorry if leaving out that word made it impossible for you to comprehend my intentions.

 

[bubbaking]

I wasn't even the first person to wonder about that. GalaxyWaffles asked for clarification on that bit first. I followed up with a postulation. Seriously, people...

If you haven't picked up MK by now and you actually want to win, you're a fool. Not saying being a fool is bad, but you still are one.

 

[pidgezero_one]

yeah And Jigglypuff it the perfect character to fight MK.

Jiggs Dair beats Nado, so yeah

 

[ぱみゅ]

stuff

Not that I don't understand your point, I really do (I atm are struggling with finding a good venue) but... everything sounded like excuses...
Being a TO is a sacrifice, your little free time, your small income you want to optimize, the possiblity you might not play in the tournament if attendance is big enough... everything is in play...
I know we can't expect everyone to sacrifice them, but if so many people have the same interest, at least one or two could have the resources, or you could be able to gather efforts and get something...

But no, you all seem to expect the existing Tournament Organizers Lords to do whatever they want because they are already doing tournaments and hope your complaints reach them.
It's not impossible, but at this point you should have realised they won't concede.

As I said before, nothing can be changed if you do nothing.

even the right people that helped you out may not be willing to go through the venture to help host a tourney for Smashers again.

People are not lazy, people are just not willing to do charity work for the community's sake. Especially since in general, this is a community that wants everything to be cheap and also perfect in every way but doesn't always show the maturity and willingness to help and deliver

a venue that never wanted anymore smash tournaments again was because two smashers thought it would be a good idea to wrestle in the venue, breaking furniture in the process.

Why do we still have hope in this community? :C

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure every aerial in the game 'beats' nado if you aim it properly
So yeah MK4lowtier

 

[RaptorTEC]

What about Jigglypuff YOLO aerial down b?

 

[CyberZixx]

What about Jigglypuff YOLO aerial down b?

That is the one true way to play puff. At least in melee when it would hit you would kill someone. Here's it's just a flower.

 

[B0NK]

Why do we still have hope in this community? :C

You tell me, since your experience with Smash players seems to be more positive.

If you think any major tournament that's occurred would happen if the TO wouldn't profit from it, then I can't help you.

You can look at why we aren't welcome back at MLG to see why Smashers don't have the best reputation and how a few immature individuals can ruin it all.

My suggestion of polls and discussions with the attendees would lead to more return for the TO, happier attendees, and possibly lead to more MK-banned events. It could also create a precedent for the TOs and Smash 4 in the future.

All I can tell you is that I haven't "done nothing," I've talk to TOs in my region (with them responding "No.") and even tried talking to a friend to secure a venue. Unfortunately we have to wait for the venue owners to relocate as they are having financial troubles.

Even if we can finally change it for better in this region, I'd like for this discussion to reach out to more than just my own region.

 

[Delta-cod]

B0NK, please get established early on in Smash 4 if you plan on being involved in that game at all.

 

[infiniteV115]

If you think any major tournament that's occurred would happen if the TO wouldn't profit from it, then I can't help you.

You don't mean literal (ie money) profit, do you?
If so, I can tell you that pretty much the exact opposite happened with IMPULSE 2012 (which was MK banned btw). The main TO for that, Tin Man, actually lost money for hosting that because he used some of his own (I don't remember exactly what he used it for...I think it was for the venue fee)

 

[B0NK]

B0NK, please get established early on in Smash 4 if you plan on being involved in that game at all.

I plan to, hoping Smash 4 ends up being a good competitive game.

You don't mean literal (ie money) profit, do you?
If so, I can tell you that pretty much the exact opposite happened with IMPULSE 2012 (which was MK banned btw). The main TO for that, Tin Man, actually lost money for hosting that because he used some of his own (I don't remember exactly what he used it for...I think it was for the venue fee)

Yes, I do. If Tin Man is willing to take a loss again after his experience with Impulse 2012, then I respect him more as a TO for him trying to help the community with no return. I know there's not any real money to be made in Smash, but TOs at least need to break even or make most of their money back to see it as a good financial decision. It really shouldn't be a surprise that TOs don't go into hosting tourneys planning to lose money.

 

[Cassio]

........No, it wouldn't. (-_-) Just learn how to play your bad MUs, lolz! There are no unwinnable MUs unless you're a Low Tier character and the +/-3's just prompt everyone to have a secondary. This is actually a trait of any FG that contains a lot of characters. You're practically 'required' to learn a secondary in most FGs, like SF, Marvel, etc. Even the Top Tiers have bad MUs in those games. Melee and Brawl circumvented this with the spacees and MK, which really destroyed the health of both games. Normally, a player should have to learn how to deal with bad MUs or should learn another character to deal with them FOR him in order to be successful. Now one can just go MK and not have to worry about the "bad MU" part.

I guess what I'm saying is that a "game balanced based on counter picking" is WAY more "interesting" than a "game where distinct characters fight each other on even ground [which is dictated by the one character who is better than all of them, even on said even ground]."



Wth? So you 'reduce bracket luck' by replacing those uncertain MUs with guaranteed losing ones? I'd much rather run into an "oddball MU" that either I win, I can CP, or no one really knows about then be forced into a MU where the only choice that evens the playing field is to choose the same character.


All of this can potentially fit under the huge sub-option of A)Uses MK.

There are those of us who main chars who auto-lose to MK and because MK is so prevalent and can't really be CP'd (which is why he's so prevalent), we're forced into choosing a rather small pool of chars as secondaries if we don't want to play as MK ourselves (which is actually the best option). This is disgusting, not creative, unhealthy for a competitive metagame, and completely repelling for players who want a little freedom over who they play. For instance, I personally am a huge fan of the DDD/G&W core. It covers (as in, doesn't lose worse than -1 to) every MU in the game other than MK and the ICs, and I'm sure the ICs could be taken care of with a more liberal stagelist. MK invalidates this duo, however, so I am forced away from the combo of characters I like that would be totally viable otherwise. Many top DDDs like the DDD/Wario core, but that suffers the same problem. Unfortunately, if you don't want to play MK, the optimal duo (even for someone who still wants to play chars with grab shenanigans) is probably DDD/Marth. This duo actually has perfect coverage (if you consider a -1 to MK as a good MU against MK) and is very flexible regarding changing stagelists (otherwise, the ICs would probably make a better partner). DDD and Marth cover each others weaknesses (including the Marth ditto) perfectly, but what if you don't want to play Marth? Well, your tournament life just became really hard guaranteed for no good reason. Primary/secondary cores is a thing I actually love discussing, but I find that it's usually a waste of time because most of the good cores fall to MK or are inferior to a MK secondary anyway.

Your post is filled with "Id rather's", "I thinks" and other heavily personally opinionated arguments...which was the point I was trying to make

Also, were talking about MUs where you cant rely on just learning the MU, otherwise I agree simply learning he MU is an easy fix. And no I dont think 'needing a secondary" is healthy (or unhealthy) for a game. You just made that up, lol. And if you prefer counter-picking thats fine, never said anyone wouldnt.

I think this and other replies answers your second post as well.

I agree that MK is not the sole reason that restricted stagelist are being favored, but MK is indeed a major factor in select influential TO's decision in their stagelist in major regions. (Namely, NJ/NY, home of the Apex Series, but has also been a factor in other Atlantic North regions). I understand the regions, such as SoCal, have always had a conservative stagelist and ruleset since Melee and have little to do with MK.

Eh, just gonna have to disagree here. Again my evidence to support my point is the fact that banning MK didnt lead to stagelist nirvana. I wouldnt say its the major factor, the biggest factor is that many people simply prefer certain stagelists. But the point isnt really that significant.

There are also Pro-Ban players that feel the same way about MK, except for that they are not okay with his presence in the metagame. There are Pro-Ban players that can fight MK, want the ruleset to be changed subjectively, and feel that they can compete with MK. Although, most of these players believe that the only reason they can compete is because MK players have not yet learned the match-up they are playing, or feel they must use MK themselves.

Most Pro-Ban that is still competing are using MK themselves, or find the enjoyment of competing and getting better is worth going to tournaments they don't believe in, since their are no other choices in tournaments.

Yeah the statements wouldnt stand with the qualifiers you included, but thats why I stated them the way I did

I am simply stating that the majority opinion is that MK is ban-worthy. This does not mean that I believe that all region's majority opinion is that he is. Which brings me to your next point:
While I would support a national ban on MK, I have never expected to happen. Never, even during every single debate thread's lifespan. I just know at the end of all the discussion it was the majority opinion that he was ban-worthy, and the only reason he wasn't banned on a larger scale in most regions is because of TOs personal bias in rulesets towards themselves, their anti-ban MK maining friends. So I am with agreement with you here that a blanket national ban should have never been coerced through means of not stickying threads or any other sort of means. But do I believe that a national standard of MK-legal should not be encouraged when the majority opinion shows they want otherwise.

The MK-Ban poll was not bad. It showed that those who felt strongly enough about the MK-Ban discussion to vote, favor MK-Banned rulesets. You are right it does not show what those who did not vote's opinion on the matter, so I understand that a large part of your community in SoCal likely did not vote because the majority of that region does not participate on SWF.

But it is simply true that those who participated in the poll made up a large part of the competitive community, and the poll shows that the majority of that large part believes that MK should be banned. 905 SWF members felt strongly enough about the decision and voted in the poll. 687 of these votes were in favor of an MK-Banned ruleset. Are you saying that their are more than 687 players in the competitive community that didn't vote and that favor an MK-Legal event? Is it even possible to find more than 469 members of the competitive community that believe he should be legal that haven't voted already?

I believe that you will never find this many people, and that the poll did a relatively good job at showing the competitive community's opinion. I believe that the majority of the community believes that the number is significantly large enough that they can come to the conclusion that the majority of the community wants him banned.

But as I said, I agree with you overall and believe this is the best statement you made in the thread you linked:



I completely agree with this statement and believe that's why TOs should be encouraged to hold polls and discussions with their potential attendees and their region. This may indirectly result in more MK-banned events, and more data on an MK-banned metagame.

This would also allow your community in SoCal to be happy with their MK-Legal and conservative stagelist they prefer.

Either way polls and discussions given by TOs to the attendees to decide on ruleset would make more attendees happier with the tournament format and I would like to see TOs start to set a precedence for such a process over the current precedence of TOs catering to the minority group of top players. Especially when the majority opinion is against the current standard of rulesets being used in some regions and even on a national scale.

While I understand the frustration of relying on top level competition and players, I dont think the intention is as sinister as you believe it to be. Maybe thats something to be discussed in another post, but the biggest detriment to pro-ban is that a massive portion of the games best players come from the three regions in favor of MK-legal, conservative rulesets. Also I dont want to speculate on the poll, I dont think a national opinion on MK's legality is really that important unless it really is large enough to hit 70%, aside from that I think pretty much everyone is in agreement it should be done on a local basis.

Also in regards to polls/census info, I would first of all encourage what delux said about simply finding a way to hold and promoting events with the ruleset and simply displaying their success, thats better than any poll would do. Aside from that, Id suggest taking a survey to a tournament and having everyone fill it out. Its the best way to get accurate data, but youd have to make sure no one knows aside from maybe the TO and try to ask relevant questions in the right way (i.e. not loading them, etc.). I was fortunate in that the survey I did included pretty much the entire regional scene that existed at the time.

 

[DeLux]

I know there's not any real money to be made in Smash, but TOs at least need to break even or make most of their money back to see it as a good financial decision. It really shouldn't be a surprise that TOs don't go into hosting tourneys planning to lose money.

Ironically on the local scale, I personally tend to make a marginal profit that I use to allow players the luxury of waiving their entry in the event they are short on cash that particular event. At the same time, I use unpaid time-off at my job in order to free up my schedule in order to host, so in terms of opportunity cost it's definitely negative.

On the larger scale, I've lost (or donated to charity) money on hosting larger scale events mostly out of expanded overhead costs entailed with running a larger event. However, I tend to feel bad even thinking of charging the venue fees some of the more "successful" or even just neighboring TO's demand. Plus geography doesn't exactly help. But I believe in the game and the community, and always feel like my next event is going to be the one where we break through the glass ceiling.

But off the top of my head, donated/lost probably around $1000+ and counting not including opportunity costs associated with hosting or donating my winnings as a player to cover costs (which is pretty considerable given I tend to come in 1st or 2nd locally and then in the top 3-5 regionally), so some of us go into it planning to lose money lol

 

[B0NK]

While I understand the frustration of relying on top level competition and players, I dont think the intention is as sinister as you believe it to be. Maybe thats something to be discussed in another post, but the biggest detriment to pro-ban is that a massive portion of the games best players come from the three regions in favor of MK-legal, conservative rulesets.

You would be surprise at the results of the simple polls for attendees in NJ/NY. A majority voted for MK-Banned and Apex Ruleset for multiple events, against the other possibilities either being MK-Legal+Modified Japanese Ruleset, MK-Banned+Modified Japanese Ruleset, and MK-Legal+Apex Ruleset.

It's just that the TOs in the region stop having polls for events, as the TOs themselves are anti-banned. I'm hoping they return to using polls since those events were just as, if not more successful, then other events in the area and it just makes more sense to use the more successful method to host events.

Ironically on the local scale, I personally tend to make a marginal profit that I use to allow players the luxury of waiving their entry in the event they are short on cash that particular event. At the same time, I use unpaid time-off at my job in order to free up my schedule in order to host, so in terms of opportunity cost it's definitely negative.

On the larger scale, I've lost (or donated to charity) money on hosting larger scale events mostly out of expanded overhead costs entailed with running a larger event. However, I tend to feel bad even thinking of charging the venue fees some of the more "successful" or even just neighboring TO's demand. Plus geography doesn't exactly help. But I believe in the game and the community, and always feel like my next event is going to be the one where we break through the glass ceiling.

But off the top of my head, donated/lost probably around $1000+ and counting not including opportunity costs associated with hosting or donating my winnings as a player to cover costs (which is pretty considerable given I tend to come in 1st or 2nd locally and then in the top 3-5 regionally), so some of us go into it planning to lose money lol

I respect that you keep up with it for your local community, I even understand, to a degree, feeling bad for charging your attendees venue when you're profiting. (Reason why I'm against the $10 venue fee standard here, as I believe $5 venue fee is more often than not enough to break even and profit. Having doing so myself). I just feel there are very few people who can afford to always take this loss.

TOs are prepared for a lost, but most plan to break even, at the very least.



EDIT: Good night, it's going on 3am here, not posting anymore for the night lol

 

[Angiance]

Geez, it's like the freakin' smash storybook here...y'all make printers and copy machines look obsolete (compliment).

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Being anti-ban and being friends with a bunch of anti-ban players, not the same thing B0NK!

 

[B0NK]

I apologized if I implied it was the same thing. I myself am friends with Anti-Ban players and I am Pro-Ban. I know it's not the same thing.

 

[FourStar]

I just feel like pikachu is just too low. so much aerial dominance! and his projectile game is crazy. and zero suit samus in my opinion is an A tier character. she just has one of the must dominant aerial games with great spacing options