Official BBR Tier List v7

[#HBC | Joker]

the "like" system hasn't been in place for that long either. I dunno how often spelt is getting likes on his posts since the new boards, but I'd wager nicole is actually getting a lot more since she seems to be averaging like, 4 or 5 likes on each post.

ah, arbitrary measurements of popularity and superiority.

 

[Spelt]

Wait, likes have been around since 2008? I had no idea.


You bring up postcount, that doesn't work so you bring up likes, that doesn't work so you bring up postcount again.

Nice to see the arguments on this thread are just awful and played-out whether or not they are relevant to the actual topic.

the "like" system hasn't been in place for that long either. I dunno how often spelt is getting likes on his posts since the new boards, but I'd wager nicole is actually getting a lot more since she seems to be averaging like, 4 or 5 likes on each post.

ah, arbitrary measurements of popularity and superiority.

I have like, 40-50 posts since the new site went up? Yeah she's still winning in the likes/post ratio. but then again, it's not hard to get likes by making a post insulting someone who's aggravated most of the regulars in this thread.

 

[bubbaking]

Nice to see that ****s are ****s.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

If there was a "dislike" button I know the majority would be winning by a milestone.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, indeed, but it's hard to have a 'majority' winning, because it entails the majority beating itself.
















Dislike that post.

 

[SoulPech]

Can I just dislike everything that bubba says?

 

[bubbaking]

That's called an ignore list, lolz.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Also, all Vinnie beat in that Tournament was was Ch33s3 and Raptor, a has-been who loses to 12 year old girls and a Yoshi main.


You may take several seats Tesh.

People gotta stop **** talking Cheese he's not bad at all lol. Heck he just came back after not playing for a year and beat Logic last month. Also I main you idiot.

 

[Nicole]

Wait, likes have been around since 2008? I had no idea.

You bring up postcount, that doesn't work so you bring up likes, that doesn't work so you bring up postcount again.

Nice to see the arguments on this thread are just awful and played-out whether or not they are relevant to the actual topic.

I have like, 40-50 posts since the new site went up? Yeah she's still winning in the likes/post ratio. but then again, it's not hard to get likes by making a post insulting someone who's aggravated most of the regulars in this thread.

unfortunately I have this condition called Not Giving a **** .

i think you have cured your previous condition
but4realbowsersucks

 

[Spelt]

Nope, my condition referred to tier list stuff.

You are really fishing.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You know it's been too long between tier lists when we have basically run out of things to talk about

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, I always find things to talk about........eventually.

Edit: For now, let's talk about how correct many of my tier list/MU chart predictions have been over the past couple of years. Pit and Fox both rose into some kind of 'semi-High Tier' status, even though most of the "regulars" on here scoffed at my arguments when I first presented them, especially regarding Pit. Pika may be getting a +2 on Snake and G&W is probably only receiving a +3 on Jiggs. Other things too, but those spring to mind. Yep, I'm on a roll.

#Egotistical
#Little
#******* (^_^)

 

[infiniteV115]

Sometimes I forget that Pit is a character in this game. Nobody plays him in my region and I never see Pits at any tournies ever unless it's RageFlax or Earth when he's in NA.

Sounds like a low tier really

 

[bubbaking]

But then Earth places pretty highly at another large US tourney and you realize that Pit can't be a low tier.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Snake may be getting a +2 on Pika

Snake will never have a +2 on Pika

Though, Pika may receive a +2 on Snake.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, that's what I meant.

 

[infiniteV115]

So Pikachu possibly +2s Snake but is only +1 on Falco without the 0-death? O.o

In other words, without the 0-death, Snake possibly does worse against Pikachu than Flaoc does?
SM u cray

 

[bubbaking]

Ummm, V115, you know I've been saying that Pika +2's Falco even without the 0-to-death, right? :-|

Edit: Oh, you're talking to Shiny. Nvm.....

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So Pikachu possibly +2s Snake but is only +1 on Falco without the 0-death? O.o

In other words, without the 0-death, Snake possibly does worse against Pikachu than Flaoc does?
SM u cray

I never said that was my opinion, I just said what I think Bubbaking meant to say.

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh oops. My bad.
lrn2reedv115

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

infinitevCXV pls

 

[ぱみゅ]

tbh, offstage Thunder looks much more dangerous for Snake than for Falco

 

[Cassio]

Bubba Im not sure youre supposed to leak stuff.

Snake actually does feel easier than Falco. But thats excluding the 0-death, and only Larry's Falco. Maybe SK's.

 

[Vermanubis]

There aren't many good players in WA/OR.

Not to defend the integrity of my placing alone, but although this is true, the good players we have are just as good as the good players in any other region. Bladewise, Felix, Itakio, Jamnt0ast, t0mmy, Weruop, etc. No "top" players, of course, but all of which do well in and out of region. Were I forced to compare, Bladewise is Kadaj, Felix is Lie, Jamnt0ast is Takeover/TeeVee, and Weruop is Logic. The MD/VA references weren't intentional, by the way lol. It just seems MD/VA has a lot of high-but-not-quite-top-level players that make good comparisons to WA/OR.

 

[Dekillsage]

Snake vs Pikachu isn't +2....


done with you guys

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Snake vs Pikachu isn't +2....


done with you guys

Sage you are the doc king of snake mains

Snake doesn't go even with Pikachu and he isn't +2 vs ZSS stop dreaming bud

 

[bubbaking]

Bubba Im not sure youre supposed to leak stuff.

I.....wasn't "leaking" anything, lolz. I never even knew those MUs were being discussed now (or that they were suggested to be discussed, although I'd hope that they were). I'm only really interested in DDD's MUs (of which I've said absolutely nothing, I believe). The public has warmed up to the idea of Pika:Snake being +2, and either SoulPech or Puffster (I forget which) said on here that he'd probably argue for a -3 in the MU chart.

Besides, http://smashboards.com/threads/q-a-l-l-feedback.330663/page-6#post-15373612

Edit: Also, ftr, other panel members have already leaked some results to the public. I didn't call names or anything because I didn't mind and it doesn't really matter since they're going to show up on the MU chart anyway.

Edit 2: I said I wasn't calling any names, but now that we know the 'act is fine', here's an example to prove my point: http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-chart-v3.329504/page-2#post-15154692
That's a more direct "leak" than anything anyone has said on here so far. Anyway, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Lykos-]

Sometimes I forget that Pit is a character in this game. Nobody plays him in my region and I never see Pits at any tournies ever unless it's RageFlax or Earth when he's in NA.

Sounds like a low tier really

a low tier with better matchups than practically every char below B tier*

/back to lurking

*okay, so his MK matchup sucks, and that's the only one that really matters, but his matchup spread beyond that is fantastic

 

[bubbaking]

Back on topic somewhat, Lucas really shouldn't be low tier. Results and his design point towards this, plus he only has a -1 against Falco, which is a huge viability boost. Falco tends to expose Low Tiers. For instance, with all of his fundamental zoning/camping tools, it's really hard to just +4 Link, but Falco still manages it. For LT's, Falco's camping is probably harder to deal with than Snake's and might be the toughest camping to deal with in the game. Yet Lucas only has a -1 against Falco, and is the only current LT char to have such a MU. He also has a MU spread that's comparable to Ness' (when you look at relevant key MUs that really matter in the current metagame). For example, he does better than Ness against Falco. He also doesn't get nearly shut down by one of Ness' most difficult MUs, DDD, like Ness does. Other MUs, too; Lucas is Mid Tier material.

a low tier with better matchups than practically every char below B tier*

/back to lurking

*okay, so his MK matchup sucks, and that's the only one that really matters, but his matchup spread beyond that is fantastic

Almost, but no. A bunch of evens, +1's, and -1's does not mean "better', not at all. It means that there are no 'drastic' MUs so, like Lucario, he doesn't really have to worry about any MUs shutting him down. I'd say that DDD still has a better MU spread than his. MK really hurts, though..... Pit is actually the only character above F Tier, barring ROB, DK, and Sonic, to not have a +3 or two +2's on non-LT chars. If you regard Lucas as a Mid Tier character (which I think you should), then he becomes one of the only non-LT chars (along with ROB, Yoshi, Sonic, Luigi, Ness, and Lucas) to not have those stats.

In short, Pit's MU spread isn't that spectacular. He is a great char because he never gets bodied, but in return, he doesn't body anyone noticeable. I think he's High Tier material because of a combination of his MU spread (MU data), results from his best players (evidence), and frame data (theory). I feel like he may be almost as hard to play optimally as a char like Pika or ZSS, which is why there aren't many top Pits.

 

[Luco]

Dunno if it translated to the MU groups or not but a little while back the Lucas and Wario mains came together and looked at the MU, which we decided on as -1... if it helps.

 

[infiniteV115]

a low tier with better matchups than practically every char below B tier*

/back to lurking

*okay, so his MK matchup sucks, and that's the only one that really matters, but his matchup spread beyond that is fantastic

Maybe if he's barely doing anything notable we should stop acting like his MU spread isn't overrated.

 

[Gardex]

G&W and Jiggs mains agree on +3/-3, but that's wrong because Bubba thinks otherwise.
... That's at least what I think you were implying.

 

[pidgezero_one]

4 people like my post.
no people like your post.

+4 and seriously guys bowser is the worst character in the game

not liking this because leave bowser alone

 

[pidgezero_one]

You know it's been too long between tier lists when we have basically run out of things to talk about

let's talk about how jigglypuff's WOP is broken against lucario

 

[infiniteV115]

let's talk about how jigglypuff's WOP is broken against lucario

let's talk about how the mario bros' (Mario and Luigi) POW is broken against franklin and mr.krabs

 

[Luco]

I watch this thread, why'd you have to drag me down here for that? Whyyyyyyyy?

Lets recap our major changes then and see what syncs up and what doesn't. Then we can talk about that.

For me it would be something like:

ICs up
ZSS up
Marth up
DK up
Ike up
Ness up
Lucas up
Sheik down
Oli down
Wario down (nothing against warios, just that if ZSS goes up someone will probably go down and wario hasn't had gigantic success recently either. :/)
Luigi down (+ others that would go down due to other chars going up)

Those are my main ones. Some are ones I whole-heartedly believe, some are backed up by things, some are theoretical, some are just 'I think that character's been doing rather well recently'.

Most of borderline/high tier I either don't know very well or i haven't seen much of so I can't comment on them yet. I've heard some people saying stuff about G&W? I'd love to see evidence for a move on his part.

 

[pidgezero_one]

let's talk about how the mario bros' (Mario and Luigi) POW is broken against franklin and mr.krabs

Wow u have no idea what your talking about i vote we ban this guy from the thread whos with me.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I watch this thread, why'd you have to drag me down here for that? Whyyyyyyyy?

Lets recap our major changes then and see what syncs up and what doesn't. Then we can talk about that.

For me it would be something like:

ICs up eh
ZSS up duh
Marth up why?
DK up maybe but i'd like to know exactly why you say this
Ike up probably not
Ness up i know you want it, but i don't see it happening
Lucas up absolutely
Sheik down not necessary, she's already low mid tier. i'm not sure how much further down she can go
Oli down disagree but probably
Wario down (nothing against warios, just that if ZSS goes up someone will probably go down and wario hasn't had gigantic success recently either. :/) yeah
Luigi down (+ others that would go down due to other chars going up) sure, i guess. luigi's about as good or bad as he always was, just a victim of negative hype train

Those are my main ones. Some are ones I whole-heartedly believe, some are backed up by things, some are theoretical, some are just 'I think that character's been doing rather well recently'.

Most of borderline/high tier I either don't know very well or i haven't seen much of so I can't comment on them yet. I've heard some people saying stuff about G&W? I'd love to see evidence for a move on his part.

replies in red

 

[Z'zgashi]

Spelt, if you're gonna post, you might as well facilitate some discussion lol. o.O

Lol at expecting Spelt to produce anything even vaguely close to productive.

 

[Luco]

Fair enough, I was expecting a reply like that. =)

Okay, my reasoning behind ICs is purely theoretical, it seems so obvious to me that at a certain level of play they just outshine almost everyone else due to the grab. HOWEVER there are two things that belay this:

1. Even at top level of play, they haven't quite shown this yet a.k.a. there are no real results to back it up.

2. Nana is both their strong point and their weak point. ICs are a gigantic glass cannon and if Nana goes, sopo/sona suddenly becomes a lot weaker.

It's one of the few cases where I believe their theoretical level of play could affect their status more than their current real level of play but i'm actually not entirely sure at this point. Maybe they don't have to go up and I just need to see more from them?

ZSS is nice and obvious...

Marth i'd put up because of his performance at Apex. Two top 8 marths and I was impressed because for a long time, I was under the impression that Marth's level of play was high but not top, not at the level of other character heroes in top tier. Apex 2013 showed me something new and different in that regard and I consider Mikeneko/Mr. R to be top marth players. I guess the fact that he got in the top 8 twice over falco, snake, ICs and even diddy says to me that he probably deserves a small bump.

DK and Ike I don't know an awful lot about but both Will and Ryo seem to have been doing rather decently with their respective characters not too long ago with events such as SKTAR and WHOBO 4. Haven't seen as much of a presence after Apex so I could budge on these two.

I think Ness going up is one I want... but there really are results to back this one up, such as him being the only character of mid tier to get in top 32 of apex (Shaky beat Abadango! ) + his placings at WHOBO 4, WABA and so on. Someone recently posted vids of Shaky against Leon and truth be told, for a -3 MU and he was playing a high level european player, he didn't do badly at all in my opinion. He's a character I think a lot have forgotten when it comes to results but I know i'm biased so... what can I say?

Lucas is obvious.

I think Sheik going down one spot is kinda fair, considering as i've seen like no results from her recently. Point me to results cause i'm totally happy to change my opinion on this. ^_^

Oli is again theoretical but also the fact that his presence at Apex this year dropped off a bit. I suppose he's not as easy to edge-guard as I once thought but he still looks a bit... uncomfortable off-stage. Is it really just me?

Wario... yea...

Luigi... I think i recall seeing a little something from him rather recently actually. I can't remember what it was or if it was even significant, I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason I remember it was because it looked cool... so maybe he is still too powerful for Low tier? I dunno, I don't know if he's really gotten anywhere recently.

So, that's my reasoning behind those characters.

@ZZgashi: Yea well.