Official BBR Tier List v7

[Illuvial]

I disagree obviously.

Fair enough, in due time the answer will be revealed.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think Salem could easily place well again in another tournament like Apex, but with EVERY top MK losing to ZSS pretty much, you can bet your ass every top player has been working on the MU, and I doubt he'll ever win again.

Regardless though, ZSS is a good enough character that, even if people know the MU, she can still place really well.

 

[Illuvial]

^^^ Exactly

And hey Z'zgashi, recognize me?

 

[Espy Rose]

Illuvial, players not going to practice the ZSS match up because they're lazy, and partially because there's only one or two ZSSs who are ever going to be a threat at the next one, if at all.

 

[Z'zgashi]

And thats where your wrong Espy. All the JP player starting putting a bunch of practice into ZSS, Nairo, M2K, and many other MKs started practicing against ZSS, etc.

 

[Espy Rose]

Name them.
And even if you do, they're Japan. I ain't talking about them.

 

[Spelt]

lol applejack smilie doesn't work anymore espy how are you going to live?

 

[Espy Rose]

I'll just host it myself.

 

[Illuvial]

I highly doubt that they won't at least study the match-up on a basic level. No one is that lazy.

 

[thrillagorilla]

No one is that lazy.

Lol. That just made my day.

 

[Illuvial]

Maybe I underestimated the laziness of Brawl players... Damn...

 

[Espy Rose]

Your underestimating the American Smash scene in general.

 

[ぱみゅ]

You're understimating America in general.

 

[Illuvial]

You're understimating America in general.

I assumed that since me and my friends actually learn the ins and outs and adapt when we run into trouble that everyone does.

But why would the beat in the world need to know what they are doing, right?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Less than one hour and I already have an opportunity to talk about stages? God, this day just gets better and better! :D

 

[Illuvial]

What about stages did you want to discuss?

 

[ぱみゅ]

For starters, the fact many stages like PS2, Pirate Ship, PTAD, Pictochat (okay, I'l give you that one as "controversial") are banned for the simple fact people hate them because they are different and don't even want to bother learning them so they actually discover if they are good or not for the game.
Out of laziness, many people just straight-out ban them instead of learning.

Plus, many people get lazy to improve or become any good at a -1 matchup and everyone straight-out pick Meta Knight.

And that, my friends, is *IMO* how lazyness has crafted our metagame.

 

[Dekillsage]

*slow claps*

 

[Illuvial]

I thought that those maps were counterpicks? On the Wiki it said they were all counterpicks.

What a shame... Kyokoro, I think you and I will get along just fine.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The Wiki is a bit outdated, unreliable source of info.
The "standard stagelist" was set by the United Ruleset Comitee, just to get that standard cropped even more when APEX happened.

And it's always nice to get along with more people (:

 

[Spelt]

Why aren't we using japan's stagelist yet?

 

[Internalyzed]

For starters, the fact many stages like PS2, Pirate Ship, PTAD, Pictochat (okay, I'l give you that one as "controversial") are banned for the simple fact people hate them because they are different and don't even want to bother learning them so they actually discover if they are good or not for the game.

Out of laziness, many people just straight-out ban them instead of learning.

Plus, many people get lazy to improve or become any good at a -1 matchup and everyone straight-out pick Meta Knight.

And that, my friends, is *IMO* how lazyness has crafted our metagame.

Says the Meta Knight player. Pirate Ship has rudder camping and the other stages have other issues. I would say that PS2 has the best claim for legality, as it doesn't have any glaring problems or hazards.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I mainly use MK in Balanced Brawl , DDD in regular (as our local community voted for ban MK). I like MK, but don't chose him everytime.
For Rudder Camping you can either (a)follow the opponent and push them to the hazard; (b)wait for the rock or storm so the opponent has to come out, or (c)ban the tactic under "stalling".

 

[Illuvial]

The Wiki is a bit outdated, unreliable source of info.

Ahh ok, I gotcha.

 

[elrelster]

Or, for rudder camping, you can just chill. If your winning, that is.

 

[Espy Rose]

Why aren't we using japan's stagelist yet?

Because their stage list is an abomination.

 

[Illuvial]

Their stagelist is so damn bland... Even the tourney rules in general are bland. Single elimination 1 character only matches? No thanks.

Hell, they only allow 1 map for SSB64

 

[Spelt]

Oh, don't give me that pillow talk Espy.

 

[elrelster]

lol. I'm so bad, I'd pass on single elimination in a heartbeat.

 

[ぱみゅ]

We don't use japanese stagelist because most American TOs are hypocrites and "compromise" on allowing more stages than they'd want to.

 

[elrelster]

Do we have an ambassador we can send over to Japan to discuss their reasons for their stagelist? Or have we already done that?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

People think rudder camping is a problem?

the misinformation spread about stages, I swear

did you guys know that Pictochat changes every 11.33 seconds?

 

[elrelster]

no. I did not know that.

 

[ぱみゅ]

You probably didn't because it is untrue.

Also, the reasoning behind japanese stagelist is quite simple: their stages (SV, BF, FD) are flat and mostly uinchanging, so they behave just like a"Regular Fighter " stage would. I guess they added Lylat and Yoshi's after they started coming to APEX?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Japan does "conservative stagelist" correctly. If you are a conservative with regards to stages, I don't know why you'd want PS1, CS, or Yoshi's legal. Lylat is debatable.

 

[ShadowLink84]

We don't use japanese stagelist because most American TOs are hypocrites and "compromise" on allowing more stages than they'd want to.

That , and because Brawl isn't a traditional fighter and so the stages tend to have an effect regardless if they are flat?

I HATE THIS NEW WEBSITE!
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Does compromise really make you a hypocrite now? Also, I don't think this layout is final. The real layout isn't finished yet. There's a screenshot of the new layout in the Announcements section of the forums that looks nothing like this.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Does compromise really make you a hypocrite now?

Nope/
Hypocrisy isn't the failure to abide by one's words.
A person who advocates against smoking but still smokes isn't a hypocrite because he fails to stop smoking, he only becomes a hypocrite when he does not believe the words he speaks.

Also, I don't think this layout is final. The real layout isn't finished yet. There's a screenshot of the new layout in the Announcements section of the forums that looks nothing like this.

...
*rushes off to look*

 

[Illuvial]

I think that we do need a few more stages for general competitive play. I know the wiki is dated, but that list of stages looks more than ok in my book.

Link to the stage list on the wiki - super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tournament_legal_(SSBB)

You never even have to go to 80% of the stages, most people stay on Battlefield, FD, Smashville, Pokemon Stadium and Lylat anyways.

 

[SoulPech]

Every time I see your sig I cant help thinking of this now... lol

I am okay with this