something to consider in the future I guessWorth considering: this dumb conversation could have been entirely avoided if MK was rightfully banned
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Official BBR Tier List v7
- Thread starter Marc
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infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Also I'm getting the feeling that Bubba and SL missed this part of my first post on this topic. XD
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Just poking fun at youI refer to him when I mention something that I've seen him do or that I've talked with him about. Similar to how I usually mention Fatal when I'm talking about some things in DDD:Snake or other players when I'm talking about other things. It just so happens that John and I went to the same university, we're close friends, and we met (and played) nearly every day in Brawl, Melee, Project M, Brawl Minus, SSF IV:AE, UMvC3, Mario Party, and a whole plethora of other games. We also talk almost all the time on Skype, AIM, what have you.
Don't try to turn heads to something irrelevant, Raptor.
And John needs to come back already >
Yeah I guess the whole minute they would have saved from DQing him would have made a difference in ANYTHING.
Seriously, if a DQ is pointless then it's pointless, no reason to waste time doing it.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Yes, that's what's respectable, lolz. I can respect his decision if he makes it in a timely manner and stands firmly behind it, just like a referee in a sports game (and this is really no different when you look at the situation objectively). TOs = referees. They're not always right, but they're more respectable when they do things in an orderly fashion on the spot. You don't see a bad play happen in basketball and then make the call 10 seconds later just because you saw the cheating team benefit from the play and suddenly win the game. You don't give such controversy a chance.
ぱみゅ
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Well, yes?
It does not matter your opinion on MK's legality, IDC is a no-go.
Long before MK was even problematic for the metagame, IDC was discovered and banned right on the spot.
Now that's an opinion.
Infinites are not that controversial for most people. Few TOs actually ban the standing or small-step infinites.
Even metagame-wise, nobody takes players to 300% with an infinite, so I don't even see what's the problem with it.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Why the **** would you respect somebody for making the wrong decision in a timely manner and then standing behind it. That's like the worst thing you could possibly do.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Because yolo
Snake for #4
Snake for #4
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I didn't miss it and it seems the point of it escaped you.
If an Olympic runner is caught doping, he gets DQ'ed regardless of whether or not he won the race.
That is the same thing with the ruleset here, you enforce them when the offense is committed, not when they've won.
Otherwise, you mislead the player who committed the offense, and you slight the person whom the offense was committed.
Yeah, it would have, it would have set a precedent.
It would have said "we don't stand for this **** bub."
That is the precedent that it sets.
You discipline the person because in the event they lose, it creates the appearance of the tactic being perfectly legal.
Okay, then I suppose Armstrong shouldn't have had all hi Tour De France titles stripped off since they only fingered him for doping several years AFTER he had won.
How about the latest soccer scandal? No one should be punished because its been several years since the offenses were committed.
I don't know ho to reply to that one nope.
And in several matches it has been used, excused, caught late, or ignored.
MK is attached to the IDC.
IDC is attached to MK.
It is controversial and always has been, to say otherwise would be ignorant.
Which is why it is banned essentially, everywhere.
Why there are topics dedicated towards Ice Climber grab infinites.
DDD infinites,
Marth Infinites.
You would have to be entirely ignorant to say infinites have never been controversial.
Heck they are controversial in almost every single fighting game.
TvC, UMVC, MvC2,, SSBM, SSBB.
Heck the only game where it was ignored was SSB but that was because everyone outside of Samus had a death combo so nothing could really be done about the matter.
...
Mmk.
Probably because infinites in themselves are frowned upon.
Seriously, do you know how pissy people get when Will used to get infinite'd? Wow that is not even a word.
Doesn't change the fact that the majority of NE tournaments often have infinites banned, except the IC infinite because that takes skill, thats the logic not mine.
Unless people have magically changed their minds, infinites still are frowned upon and are often banned.
Now the SBR in itself does not ban infinites, they ban stalling through infinites to 300%.
This does not mean the infinites are at all not banned.
Heck, there were many, many tournaments that banned the DDD infinites and Marth infinites, except the IC infinites because they take skill.
Now keep in mind, infinite combos, I don't care about too much.
Unless you stall with it, don't care.
IDC though?
Ban it as hard as you want. Still doesn't change the fact that the move in itself can break the rule just by going from air to ground due to how it functions.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I swear like a page ago you were complaining about people taking things to extremes to make a point.
Now you're comparing an olympic runner using performance-enhancing drugs to M2K extending his DC for half a second near the end of a match when he's in a 1v2 and he's putting himself at a positional disadvantage by doing so (ie between 2 of Japan's strongest players and Halberd's laser)
A more accurate comparison would be 100 men in a marathon, and the dude that's in last place, during the last 2 miles of the marathon, over a mile behind everyone else, hops on a unicycle as a joke and rides backwards for about 10 seconds to travel about 100 feet where if he had just continued on foot he would have travelled about 80 feet in the same amount of time.
And that's still stretching it.
There's also the fact that this happened in finals, meaning it had no effect on the rest of the bracket, while there were like 8000 people watching on stream (ie it would have served no practicality and killed all the hype). If this had happened in like 2nd round winners' or something, you would DQ him from that set as a warning so he doesn't try to do it again (because it potentially affects the rest of the bracket). You know, when it actually serves a purpose.
Now you're comparing an olympic runner using performance-enhancing drugs to M2K extending his DC for half a second near the end of a match when he's in a 1v2 and he's putting himself at a positional disadvantage by doing so (ie between 2 of Japan's strongest players and Halberd's laser)
A more accurate comparison would be 100 men in a marathon, and the dude that's in last place, during the last 2 miles of the marathon, over a mile behind everyone else, hops on a unicycle as a joke and rides backwards for about 10 seconds to travel about 100 feet where if he had just continued on foot he would have travelled about 80 feet in the same amount of time.
And that's still stretching it.
There's also the fact that this happened in finals, meaning it had no effect on the rest of the bracket, while there were like 8000 people watching on stream (ie it would have served no practicality and killed all the hype). If this had happened in like 2nd round winners' or something, you would DQ him from that set as a warning so he doesn't try to do it again (because it potentially affects the rest of the bracket). You know, when it actually serves a purpose.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
I wish FL had a venue for a national. I don't like top players, so I would DQ for everything.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
let's be friendsI wish FL had a venue for a national. I don't like top players, so I would DQ for everything.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Only if you stop complaining about Yoshi.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
D: But he's so annoying.Only if you stop complaining about Yoshi.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
And terrible.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Haters.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
I like Yoshi, he is just butt.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I love Yoshi too, he is just ***.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
The extreme was in regards to LoZ mentioning stalling with IDC to 8 minutes.
Which my point was not about during that discussion.
What I just did> Its called an analogy.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy
You do something illegal, you get DQ'ed.
That was my point, not trying to counter an argument by stating an extreme situation would occur because of Y.
There is a difference.
...
That isn't at all accurate and is a terrible strawman.
Seriously, that is nowhere near close to my argument period.
Perhaps to YOUR argument, but not mine.
Let alone they'd probably DQ him anyway, you know, standards.
Scary thing.
This is ridiculous, really.
You're saying this "DQ him if he did it earlier in th bracket, DQ him if he won the finals, but don't DQ him if he loses."
If you're going to DQ him in the event he wins, then you should be DQing him period.
Your own circumstances work against you in the fact that he is about get a DQ in the moment that he wins.
So... what is the problem with DQing him on the spot again?
After all he is in a lose lose situation so what is the problem with DQing him?
Did he do IDC? Yes
Is it illegal? Yes
Then you DQ.
Seriously, this subjective bull**** is part of why splitting as well caused big problems too.
You set the standards, and you stand by them so you don't set stupid precedents like M2K repeatedly breaking the IDC rule.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I wish FL had a venue for a national. I don't like top players, so I would DQ for everything.
I wish SC had a venue.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Well you can pretty much consider it a DQ on the spot as soon as he extended his DC, because as I said, they probably would have taken the victory away from him in the event that he won the match after the EDC. Since he was already in a lose-lose situation, it's pretty much the case that he had been DQ'd.
I just don't think it would have been a good idea to cut the match short as a result of the DQ, given that it would have accomplished nothing but killing the hype.
I just don't think it would have been a good idea to cut the match short as a result of the DQ, given that it would have accomplished nothing but killing the hype.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Pfft, who cares?
If hype was a deciding factor for everything you'd never be able to DQ anyone, ever.
Seriously, you could make ledge stalling look intense as hell if you wanted.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
So (assuming that, as soon as it is noticed that M2K extended his DC, it is established that he cannot be the victor of the match, and since Japan was already up 2 games and came from winners it has therefore already been decided that they won the tournament as soon as the DC was extended) you think the match should have ended as soon as M2K extended his DC, even though you agree it would have accomplished nothing (ie nothing good comes out of it) but it would have killed the hype as well (ie something bad comes out of it)?
You think it would be the better decision to force M2K to jump off the stage for his remaining stock(s), rather than allow him to play out the remaining 2 minutes of the match (solely for fun) while thousands of people are watching, even though everybody that's watching knows that Japan was awarded with the victory as soon as the cape was extended?
Seriously, I just don't get it.
You think it would be the better decision to force M2K to jump off the stage for his remaining stock(s), rather than allow him to play out the remaining 2 minutes of the match (solely for fun) while thousands of people are watching, even though everybody that's watching knows that Japan was awarded with the victory as soon as the cape was extended?
Seriously, I just don't get it.
Peachy-Desu
Smash Journeyman
Mks infested the results otherwise.. nothing new here.
That was gold
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Not bad XD
You mean like the rulesets we have now?Not for banning MK either. But he could require some MK-based rulesets I feel.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Damn straight eat me.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I giggled
Back up.
Where did I EVER agree to it?
You do realize this is the basis in which I disagree with you...right?
It does establish something, it sets the precedent of what is and what is not acceptable.
Considering the IDC s banned, MK gets d/ced as soon as it happens.
Pause.
L+R+Z+Start
No contest.
Winner? Japan.
That is how you do it.
Of course let's do it your way.
Playing the match, M2K wins, and he gets away with it, like he did in pools and brackets in the past.
Yeah that would look REALLY good on our community, like the whole splitting issue did/does.
Or even better.
M2K wins, they declare Japan the winner anyway making the game entirely meaningless and wasting people's time.
Or even better, Japan wins, and someone kindly points out "Hey, you would have won anyway since M2K did an illegal move", thus cheapening the victory they thought they had worked so hard for.
So your whole "ITS OKAY! ITS FOR THE HYPE!" is actually more damaging than simply DQing M2K on the spot.
Hype < Integrity of the game.
ぱみゅ
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Why don't we play 2.stock matches again?
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
3 is funner
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
k I'm going to stop here cause you clearly didn't read anything I said
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Some...disadvantage or another.
Damn, least I took the time to correct you when you misunderstood.
Because the majority of the East Coast/top players get pissy when you even mention it.
| Big D |
Smash Master
More stocks = more consistent outcomes.
Less stocks with more matches = more consistent outcomes.
ぱみゅ
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Less stocks = Less margin of error = more consistent play from all parties
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