Official BBR Tier List v7

[Kewkky]

If it's in the game it's in the game.

The double MK ban seems pretty scrubby to me.

If banning something from being used in the game makes the game an overall, more competitive, and more enjoyable game (general consensus), and if this game was only held back by that thing that will get banned, then I'm all for banning it.


I don't get it, though. Why ban double MK? I thought people were all about how "if the japanese can do it, so can we! Don't ban him!" a number of months ago. Unless doubles is just an 'us' thing, I don't see how this is any different.

 

[Dekillsage]

aaaAAAaaa

eSports sports sports sports

 

[Seagull Joe]

you being overrated has inflated your ego so much...

NC replies: rofl

So...is that a yes?

 

[infiniteV115]

As much as I hate the japanese rulesets, I am a huge advocate of their scrooging rule and IDC/EDC rule

Scrooging rule: Can't travel under the stage twice in a row without landing on a non-moving part of the stage in between. Prevents typical SV scrooging and forces MK onto the stage rather than just grabbing the edge over and over.

IDC/EDC rule: Can't extend it for more than 10 seconds and once it has been extended, you can't use it again until you have been hit.

 

[DMG]

It's kinda funny that the non moving part was added specifically because of SV and for no other stage.

 

[Kewkky]

It's kinda funny that the non moving part was added specifically because of SV and for no other stage.

Yet the stage makes a great neutral. Damn you, gliding!

 

[Espy Rose]

It's a "meh" neutral. It's just overly popular.
@bubba: The Sonic Diddy MU would be worse than it is right now if we ignored that fact.

 

[PK Gaming]

The explanation for ZSS' initial tier position (21st or 22nd, one below Zelda) was that she only really had side-b. That's literally what it said, like, "all side-b, easily gimped"

lmao

that must have pissed you off

also Zelda being in the low 20s baffled the hell out of me, she seemed really bad... even from a casual's perspective.

 

[Shaya]

Back then ZSS was just all side-b.

Brawl went from a Melee-esque/more traditional fighting game ideal (these moves wall out, these moves when you use are good to approach) to
punishment
punishment
PUNISHMENT.

ZSS is a great punisher but a terrible approacher and an above average to excellent waller.

The only characters in brawl's early history that actually had an approach were... MK, Falco, Snake and maybe Marth. As in, everyone with a good dash attack or roll. Sad times, right?

 

[Kewkky]

And then pretty much everyone from the BBR got kicked out, including people who were just there because they were TO's but still lacked knowledge.

Good times, good times...

 

[Shaya]

Huh? That was the top level at the time though. We just weren't as smart back then as we are now.
And We is everybody.


People talked about how Captain Falcon's only "approach" was falcon kick.
Like, does that not boggle the mind? Falco's Side B was also like "OMG APPROACHING GODLYNESS".

 

[Kewkky]

Huh? That was the top level at the time though. We just weren't as smart back then as we are now.
And We is everybody.

Except I, I've always been the most smartest.

People talked about how Captain Falcon's only "approach" was falcon kick.
Like, does that not boggle the mind? Falco's Side B was also like "OMG APPROACHING GODLYNESS".

I remember when people would just say that Olimar was one of the easiest characters to gimp. While technically he still is, many of us know that that's not true.

 

[Espy Rose]

Actually, he's still the easiest to gimp.

 

[Kewkky]

Actually, he's still the easiest to gimp.

I think Ivysaur is the easiest to gimp.

 

[Tesh]

Ivysaur can vine whip from sofar away he can swing into the lower blast zone. He is nearly unstoppable off stage.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Huh? That was the top level at the time though. We just weren't as smart back then as we are now.
And We is everybody.


People talked about how Captain Falcon's only "approach" was falcon kick.
Like, does that not boggle the mind? Falco's Side B was also like "OMG APPROACHING GODLYNESS".

People just don't know how to deal with options well with their character. Cause people just wanna go in and when they can't try to evade inside or force their way in hoping it will work. If it does not work, they wanna try and try again.

 

[Iota]

Except her mobility is awful and gets no jump from up-b. All you have to do is get rid of her jump and it's a free stock. Man I wish it was that easy for Olimar

 

[Kewkky]

Ivysaur can vine whip from sofar away he can swing into the lower blast zone. He is nearly unstoppable off stage.

Until you grab the ledge.

 

[Iota]

^Pretty much. Best and worst tether recovery at the same time.

 

[Tesh]

Until you grab the ledge.

if you edgehog you will get killed by vinewhip or fair, or get knocked off by razor leaf or back air. I never get gimped as Ivysaur, so I think I'd know.

 

[Kewkky]

Let's see... ZSS, Samus, Ivysaur, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Link, Toon Link, Lucas...

I think ZSS's tether recovery(ies) are the best, IMO. SideB and upB both are tether recoveries, and you can use them in conjunction to get an opponent off the ledge and survive (if you already lost your downB).

if you edgehog you will get killed by vinewhip or fair, or get knocked off by razor leaf or back air. I never get gimped as Ivysaur, so I think I'd know.

That's assuming you're close enough for either to work. Plus a ledgedropped bair from a lot of different characters will probably send you back where you came from when attempting to fair an opponent (he should regrab the ledge when you're almost within fair range so he can regain the invincibility frames), except this time you'll be missing your double jump. I'm assuming that by vine whip you mean upB, and if so, then the opponent can just do any get-up animation and done.

blah blah blah theorycrafting

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ivysaur can vine whip from sofar away he can swing into the lower blast zone. He is nearly unstoppable off stage.

Peach, Diddy and ZSS can Zdrop that as you do it and you drop to your death.

 

[H1N1]

So...is that a yes?

can't we just settle this with an arm wrestle?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wow this thread can't stick to a good topic at all.

never mind important **** back to trolling.

and what the hell does double MK have anything to do with this SINGLE's TIER LIST?

 

[Espy Rose]

Ivysaur would be easier to gimp if Ivysaur existed.

 

[Tesh]

Peach, Diddy and ZSS can Zdrop that as you do it and you drop to your death.

Ivysaur can Zcatch.

 

[Tesh]

Let's see... ZSS, Samus, Ivysaur, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Link, Toon Link, Lucas...

I think ZSS's tether recovery(ies) are the best, IMO. SideB and upB both are tether recoveries, and you can use them in conjunction to get an opponent off the ledge and survive (if you already lost your downB).


That's assuming you're close enough for either to work. Plus a ledgedropped bair from a lot of different characters will probably send you back where you came from when attempting to fair an opponent (he should regrab the ledge when you're almost within fair range so he can regain the invincibility frames), except this time you'll be missing your double jump. I'm assuming that by vine whip you mean upB, and if so, then the opponent can just do any get-up animation and done.

blah blah blah theorycrafting

ZSS has a better overall recovery (just by being a better overall character), but Samus having the longest Zair makes it alot safer since you can airdodge then grab the ledge. ZSS can be trapped at times when she can't airdodge because it would drop her too low.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ivysaur can Zcatch.

You can not Z catch item once you try and tether on stage. You will get hit once you tether and swing to the lower part of stage. You are getting sniped out of it.

 

[Kewkky]

ZSS has a better overall recovery (just by being a better overall character), but Samus having the longest Zair makes it alot safer since you can airdodge then grab the ledge. ZSS can be trapped at times when she can't airdodge because it would drop her too low.

I guess the range of it, her super slow fallspeed, and her downB stalling tactics could help her get back on-stage from far away. She's no melee Samus, she was almost ungimpable on her first launch from the stage back then. Samus can't use her tether recovery from below the stage though, and ZSS's upB has a longer reach than it seems. In terms of versatility, ZSS's tether recoveries are probably the best.

 

[Tesh]

You can not Z catch item once you try and tether on stage. You will get hit once you tether and swing to the lower part of stage. You are getting sniped out of it.

Tether cancel, z catch (throw if needed) and re-tether before you know what happened.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Does anyone have the frame data on tethers. I cant find it in my smash report files I have on my PC. I could have sworn I saved that.

Tether cancel, z catch (throw if needed) and re-tether before you know what happened.

Dude, you can not do that. Don't you understand what I am telling you? When I Zdrop, I do it to a point where as you are about to hang the turnip will hit you from below, and I grab the ledge. You can't make that back.

 

[Tesh]

Does anyone have the frame data on tethers. I cant find it in my smash report files I have on my PC. I could have sworn I saved that.



Dude, you can not do that. Don't you understand what I am telling you? When I Zdrop, I do it to a point where as you are about to hang the turnip will hit you from below, and I grab the ledge. You can't make that back.

no idea what you are talking about. I can grab items from any direction

 

[Seagull Joe]

can't we just settle this with an arm wrestle?

Thumb war?

I also like Tesh's new static shock avi.

 

[Kewkky]

I understand what Dark.Pch is saying and I agree. You can't zcatch an item while in your swing animation from having upB'd. However, I wouldn't even zdrop an item. I'd probably just do a sloe get-up animation on the ledge and watch as you hit an invincible character with upB and fall to your doom.

 

[Tesh]

I understand what Dark.Pch is saying and I agree. You can't zcatch an item while in your swing animation from having upB'd. However, I wouldn't even zdrop an item. I'd probably just do a sloe get-up animation on the ledge and watch as you hit an invincible character with upB and fall to your doom.

uh...no u can just cancel the swing animation and then z catch

 

[Dekillsage]

uh...no u can just cancel the swing animation and then z catch

and then you... die?
Wasn't reading so now I'm lost

 

[Tesh]

not if i just...throw it back at you or re tether.

you guys obviously haven't played a good ivysaur like reflex or tesh

 

[Dekillsage]

Riiiight you can do that. idk **** bout ivysaur I'm sorry LOL

 

[Tesh]

its cool, most people dont

 

[Dark.Pch]

no idea what you are talking about. I can grab items from any direction

You are not paying attention to what I am telling you.

You can NOT Zgrab items as you tether.

Tesh: Ivysaur can vine whip from sofar away he can swing into the lower blast zone. He is nearly unstoppable off stage.[I/]

"Peach, Diddy and ZSS can Zdrop that as you do it and you drop to your death."

Your counter for this: "Tether cancel, z catch (throw if needed) and re-tether before you know what happened."


Why this fails:
Implying as you tether low, there is an item falling on you. Last I check, you are NOT invincible while hanging. Only when you crab the ledge. And you have about 26 frames ( if I remember correctly) of invincibility frames. As you tether near the ledge and pick yourself up, you are open until the character physically grabs the ledge. That' s what the item is there to prevent.

Your counter for this: "Tether cancel, z catch (throw if needed) and re-tether before you know what happened."

You are putting yourself in more danger then you already were. To Z drop and then throw it takes was too much time and you are falling. By the time you try this I ether grab the ledge in time or you too far off for your up-B to make it avoiding the item you tossed and me and you dropping to your death. Worst case is you would get hit by the item. Mainly because of this rule:

"And you have about 26 frames ( if I remember correctly) of invincibility frames." The max frames of invincibility a character gains when they grab the ledge and let go is 21. When you tether and let go of the ledge you do NOT have any invinc frames as you let go.

So your lil counter measure for this would get you killed.