Official BBR Tier List v7

[Seagull Joe]

The day I see Coney/Atomsk lose to a or is the day I might agree with you. camps with lasers, but all his moves have to attack a large shield he can't reliably space against. And he's light. 's the same damn thing. And vs ...? That is hard as **** for .

It's pretty much just theorycraft, yeah. I'm fairly certain the only person that actually uses Sheilda (ie both Zelda and Sheik in the same match) is Ed (aka ScaryLB59). I remember seeing a match of a different Sheilda vs some DDD and the Sheilda did pretty well, but idk who it was.

Oh apparently it was Fuujin vs MetalMusicMan (and it was just Zelda, not Sheilda)....so yeah let's ignore that lawl

>Taking into account mid level players for discussing a matchup

 

[bubbaking]

>Taking into account mid level players for discussing a matchup

Isn't Fuujin one of the best Zeldas?

Edit: Scary too...

/ do NOT beat .

And neither does , as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Seagull Joe]

And neither does , as far as I'm concerned.

Adding in with does not increase the chance of winning because you now just threw in a worst character who is slow on the ground, can't reliably camp , and has to hit his shield with laggy lightning kicks.

All I get from reading V115 is this: IF can't cg then the matchup must be even or the other characters favor.

Is Fuujin one of the best 's? He's one of the 5 's who exist so I guess that makes him one of the best.

 

[infiniteV115]

That's because you're an idiot and you can't read.

No I don't think Fuujin is one of the best Zeldas. Then again the only Zeldas I really know about are him, Riot (> Fuujin imo), Ed (Sheilda, his Zelda > Fuujin's) and the European one (who I also think > Fuujin lol)

So I guess you could say Fuujin is the worst Zelda I've ever heard of. But he could also be top 4

 

[bubbaking]

Is Fuujin one of the best 's? He's one of the 5 's who exist so I guess that makes him one of the best.

Super lolz!

 

[infiniteV115]

The European one's name is JuJux

 

[Seagull Joe]

That's because you're an idiot and you can't read.

No I don't think Fuujin is one of the best Zeldas. Then again the only Zeldas I really know about are him, Riot (> Fuujin imo), Ed (Sheilda, his Zelda > Fuujin's) and the European one (who I also think > Fuujin lol)

So I guess you could say Fuujin is the worst Zelda I've ever heard of. But he could also be top 4

You said it pooplord. Bthrow does a lot of damage and then has to land. 's bair outprioritizes all of 's aerials. The matchup is only even because has the ability to camp with lasers. Otherwise it'd be 's favor. There is obviously more to the matchup then that on both sides, but from what I've seen results indicate the matchup to be 's favor (I've never seen TKD play Addy and don't know if they've ever played since they live at opposite ends of the country. But Coney/Atomsk's results indicate the matchup to be 's favor). I think it's even though and mains just need to step it up.

Sheilda at worst does just as well as solo Sheik/solo Zelda. If she does worse then that's because of not using Sheilda correctly.
The idea behind Sheilda is that you play to each character's strengths and try to eliminate their weaknesses (start off with Zelda against characters that can CG Sheik, use Zelda at high percents to net easier kills, start off with Sheik against characters she can ftilt lock the **** out of etc)
If there's some MU where you feel switching to Zelda provides absolutely no advantage over staying Sheik, then Sheilda = Sheik for that MU.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. I mean, do you even have decent experience against any Sheildas?

Uh, all grabs = Fox offstage? You're aware DDD can't CG Fox, right?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

V y u so good

 

[infiniteV115]

You're aware DDD can't CG Fox, right?

Was used as an argument against

all grabs = Fox offstage

Not as an argument FOR Fox > DDD. Stop assuming things.
Just because I say X is true and Y is true, doesn't mean I'm saying 'Y is true because X is true'.

I'm aware DDD beats Jigglypuff. I'm also aware that he can't CG her.

 

[Seagull Joe]

In the end, your entire thing is theorycraft. Results do not hold to theorycraft or would be amazing and would be trash.

 

[infiniteV115]

Really? I'm theorycrafting?

t's pretty much just theorycraft, yeah. I'm fairly certain the only person that actually uses Sheilda (ie both Zelda and Sheik in the same match) is Ed (aka ScaryLB59). I remember seeing a match of a different Sheilda vs some DDD and the Sheilda did pretty well, but idk who it was.

Oh apparently it was Fuujin vs MetalMusicMan (and it was just Zelda, not Sheilda)....so yeah let's ignore that lawl

I HAD NO IDEA. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Really? I'm theorycrafting?

I HAD NO IDEA. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Pooplord.

 

[infiniteV115]

I saw it the first time dude, you don't need to keep repeating it XD

 

[DeLux]

Let's play nice please

 

[infiniteV115]

But being a jerk is what makes life worth living

knewtopiclawl > or >?

 

[SoulPech]

The day I see Coney/Atomsk lose to a or is the day I might agree with you. camps with lasers, but all his moves have to attack a large shield he can't reliably space against. And he's light. 's the same damn thing. And vs ...? That is hard as **** for .

>Taking into account mid level players for discussing a matchup

The vs MU is even in my opinion.

The advantage has over is the fact that can smack and kill at early percentage, as well as his grab prioritizes 's Grab. The disadvantage is cannot chain grab and has little response to 's lasers (Side- B or just jump over). Eventually, the damage racks up and fox can dombo into a usmash, sweet spot a bair, uair, or w/e and can land the kill.

The advantage has over is he's way quicker, can land some easy strings of attacks (uair into grab, utilt, or pretty much whatever the wants to do) and when the damage is high enough, can land a kill. The downside is gets killed earlier than and doesn't normally die until around 140% unless gets lucky with a fresh b-air or usmash.


I am getting this from the matches that I've seen Carls () and players, like Fizzle and SneakyTako and it pretty much goes even. It's essentially a chess match and whoever makes the wrong move first loses.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

^^ Seaagull Man 2.0

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So are people finally starting to catch on to how bad King Dedede is? Can we finally have an honest conversation about how he's only useful as a good secondary? Can he finally go to mid tier where he belongs? Not only on this list, but in our hearts and minds?

 

[SoulPech]

^^ Seaagull Man 2.0

except i'm not an *******

 

[bubbaking]

knewtopiclawl > or >?

That's an old topic (and boring)... (-_-)

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

YO!

Seagull Man is my home dawg.

Don't you even.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

People really need to stop posting like Seagull. It's already annoying that he does it... we don't need more people doing it, lmao.


edit:
on topic sort of?: I'm not very sure on the whole Olimar and Diddy Kong thing results wise. Outside of ADHD(just recently starting going to tournaments again) and Gnes(did godlike at WHOBO) no diddy kongs do that great but Zinoto is pretty godlike at the moment. Same thing with Olimar but with RB and Dabuz(or at least in America). But there are also very good rising up top olimars like Denti. Though I believe that

 

[Seagull Joe]

But being a jerk is what makes life worth living

knewtopiclawl > or >?

>.

^^ Seaagull Man 2.0

My followers~

except i'm not an *******

I'm not an *******. I'm just right in the things I say and people don't want me to be right .

YO!

Seagull Man is my home dawg.

Don't you even.

<3

People really need to stop posting like Seagull. It's already annoying that he does it... we don't need more people doing it, lmao.

I started a cult following. Good thing I don't do it for stages .

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ball so hard motha****as wanna be you.

 

[Seagull Joe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36b78nxDWJU&list=FLfMiBjB-ey6eYgVEE7FF8kA&index=13&feature=plpp_video

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Dat **** cray

 

[bubbaking]

You're aware DDD can't CG Fox, right?

Was used as an argument against

all grabs = Fox offstage

Not as an argument FOR Fox > DDD. Stop assuming things.
Just because I say X is true and Y is true, doesn't mean I'm saying 'Y is true because X is true'.

I'm aware DDD beats Jigglypuff. I'm also aware that he can't CG her.

I know what you were saying, but all I was saying all along was that DDD can just f/bthrow Fox 80% of the time and just proceed to gimp him or punish his recovery. The remaining 20% of the time, DDD can set up for a TC to bring the situation over to the 80%.

 

[infiniteV115]

That post was direction at Seagull

 

[bubbaking]

So are people finally starting to catch on to how bad King Dedede is? Can we finally have an honest conversation about how he's only useful as a good secondary? Can he finally go to mid tier where he belongs? Not only on this list, but in our hearts and minds?

What part of our entire discussion led you to something like that? DDD is definitely a badly designed character, very polarizing, and clearly not Top Tier, like people once believed long ago. This doesn't mean that's he's not a High Tier char. We were discussing DDD's MU against another potential high tier char who definitely isn't horrible, and the general consensus was that the MU is even. Sure, you can't expect to win a tourney with DDD, but you can't expect to win a tourney with TL either. As Seagull was pointing out, you can't just assume that if DDD "can't cg then the matchup must be even or the other characters favor."

 

[infiniteV115]

Fairly certain MJG wins Kansas locals all the time

 

[bubbaking]

Fairly certain MJG wins Kansas locals all the time

I'm being serious when I say locals don't count unless you have players attending from Out of State (OoS).

 

[SoulPech]

I actually like the format of Joe's posts...not the content...but the format.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm being serious when I say locals don't count unless you have players attending from Out of State (OoS).

Yeah yeah I know, that's what the '' was for

 

[Delta-cod]

DDD already exists and it can't be denied that he only loses to (some) people above him while destroying everyone below him.

Yoooooo...

MM me.

 

[Sinister Slush]

DDD already exists and it can't be denied that he only loses to (some) people above him while destroying everyone below him.

Fox, Sheilda, Yushee, and anyone that's even.

 

[bubbaking]

Yoooooo...

MM me.

As long as you play Yoshi and not what your brawl icon says.

Fox, Sheilda, Yushee, and anyone that's even.

Yoshi isn't even. No reason for it to be either. I have plenty of Yoshi experience, so let's go. What does Yoshi have to even out this MU? DDD only has 6 evens (should actually be 8 if you count Fox and Sheilda). That's more (less evens) than can be said of Falco, Diddy, Wario, ZSS, and Lucario. There's a reason DDD has a better MU spread than the latter three. Also, with the exception of Kirby and Sheik/Sheilda (who are both very good Mid Tier chars), DDD only goes even with another High Tier and BL Tier chars (potentially high tier). That's better than can be said of every single character above DDD except for MK, Marth, and Snake. Everyone else either goes even with more than two random Mid/Low Tier chars and/or they go even with a non-high Mid Tier char.

Basically, what I am saying is: DDD loses to a large portion of Top Tier + ZSS, but he loses to no one below him and he actually beats them harder than everyone above him. He's like Melee Sheik (loses to the rest of Top Tier but beats everyone below Top harder than the rest of Top does) and Melee Peach (loses to every single char in Top Tier and every single char in High Tier, yet remains at #6 on the tier list in high High Tier). No reason for him not to be High Tier. Now, while he does lose to a large portion of Top + ZSS, he still beats some key MUs above him, namely Wario, Marth, Lucario, and possibly Snake (though I'd be willing to concede even to Snake).

Tl;dr - DDD belongs in High Tier. Even if it's the bottom of the tier, he shouldn't actually descend from the tier.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yoshi isn't even. No reason for it to be either. I have plenty of Yoshi experience, so let's go. What does Yoshi have to even out this MU? DDD only has 6 evens (should actually be 8 if you count Fox and Sheilda). That's more (less evens) than can be said of Falco, Diddy, Wario, ZSS, and Lucario.

If you're allowed to have opinions that contradict the MU chart to make your character's MUs seem better, than so do I.
ZSS' MU against ICs, TL, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Sheik and Sonic are all +1, not even.

There, now ZSS has less even MUs than DDD

 

[Iota]

Wait what...why would Sonic even be considered even? O_o

 

[Espy Rose]

Because in every historical, significant instance, Sonic has managed to overcome Zero Suit Samus.

He goes even with ZSS, methinks.

 

[infiniteV115]

I beat Meek. On Yoshi's.
Shutup Espy.