Official BBR Tier List v7

[NickRiddle]

Where was esam for this

Where was anybody good on the west coast for this?

that i believe was also verms first tourney since apex...


Looks like you gon be playing smash for a good while then.

Florida .

 

[Tesh]

Not lose to a grab release to multiple characters?

I mean, props to Mekos, he gets results most Sheiks don't but results alone do not make a tier list.

At least Lucas can kill.

If you're only counting results, Lucas would be probably ahead with Mekos. Actual character wise Shiek is clearly better than him and her MU spread realistically should also reflect that.

How realistic is her spread if in reality Shiek never gets anything done? Can you really say Shiek has a better matchup with MK or Snake or Wario or Olimar if Shiek never does better than Lucas in reality?

Mario vs MK is cake.

And SFP, Yoshi has Double Jump Cancel item throw, so he doesnt really need glide toss cuz it covers the same purpose and is also a little more versatile.

Glide tossing can be done OoS to score better punishes. I doubt Yoshi's item techs rival that kind of versatility.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi can item throw OoS

 

[infiniteV115]

I read somewhere that in Japan, Sheik is considered a Snake counter O.O

 

[Z'zgashi]

I heard somewhere in the US Sheik was a Fox counter.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I read somewhere that in Japan, Sheik is considered a Snake counter O.O

What is that mu actually considered? I've always been curious. =D

EDIT:Realized saying actually is wrong lol. What is it considered in the US? =p

 

[thrillagorilla]

How realistic is her spread if in reality Shiek never gets anything done? Can you really say Shiek has a better matchup with MK or Snake or Wario or Olimar if Shiek never does better than Lucas in reality?

My thought would be due to her grinding playstyle. I haven't met too many smashers that have the patience for playing that type of character outside of sonic mains. I doubt any of them would switch any time soon either, since imo he is a better character anyways. I digress...

My point is that even though she has a better MU spread (in theory, I haven't looked into her extensively yet), the character suffers IRL due to lack of popularity. I KNOW there are Shiek mains out there, I just haven't heard of many of them, much less know how well they do in tourney.

 

[DMG]

I heard somewhere in the US Sheik was a Fox counter.

She is. Ftilt lock is nasty, would probably be even or Fox's favor without it but it's sooooo good. Ftilt Usmash GAME

Snake vs Shiek looks sorta even, if she can ever get in. It's kinda like G&W: they both get stuffed out a lot by Snake but get good juggles, edge guarding, etc vs him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I had no idea,

 

[Ralph Cecil]

She is. Ftilt lock is nasty, would probably be even or Fox's favor without it but it's sooooo good. Ftilt Usmash GAME

Snake vs Shiek looks sorta even, if she can ever get in. It's kinda like G&W: they both get stuffed out a lot by Snake but get good juggles, edge guarding, etc vs him.

The way I see it Sheik racks up nice damage from edgeguarding and juggling, but Snake hits hard and kills early. I personally could see it being sort of even as well, but I don't play the mu ever so I don't know lol.

 

[Luco]

hmmm I hear alot of lucas players saying the matchup is extremely hard.

I personally have never lost to a sheik. Yea there are annoying things that she can do to us but that is the same for most of our matchups. You just have to find away around her tactics while utilizing our strengths.

You can defeat anything with the Will of Fire

Well that's true I s'pose. Lucas as a more patient strategy? Yink would be very surprised.

 

[Karnu]

I don't have much trouble with the MU tbh.

I just keep space and avoid grab releases and Ftilt as much as possible.

 

[Jrugs]

The way I see it Sheik racks up nice damage from edgeguarding and juggling, but Snake hits hard and kills early. I personally could see it being sort of even as well, but I don't play the mu ever so I don't know lol.

WTF really but you live in the same state as Judo?
I say +1 maybe even with (tag out for u-smash kills) but if bbr wants to be cool and give us a new even MU Im down with that.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I know! D= I would like to play him more, but he doesn't go to many tournaments anymore and when he does we don't meet in bracket or anything. T_T

 

[ViperGold42]

I'm hoping Snake doesn't drop anymore.

 

[Jrugs]

I'm hoping Snake doesn't drop anymore.

I hope snake drops soooooo low. over rated char is over rated.

@ ralph aww that sux.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I don't think Snake will drop that low. If he does drop, it won't be by much, I imagine. His hitboxes, projectiles, and frame data are just too good, even with his downsides (large model, easily chain-grabbed, etc.).

 

[Vex Kasrani]

DDD is good.

 

[Jrugs]

I don't think Snake will drop that low. If he does drop, it won't be by much, I imagine. His hitboxes, projectiles, and frame data are just too good, even with his downsides (large model, easily chain-grabbed, etc.).

yeah he's till a good character, so I don't think he's gonna drop more next tier list, but if bbr wants to drop him a lil bit more I am totally fine with that.

 

[| Big D |]

DDD is good.

I want to sig this.

 

[Jrugs]

dedede sux lol.

 

[| Big D |]

You forget that he is invincible.

 

[Jrugs]

o.O Invincible? apparently I did

 

[Luco]

I find it interesting that Lucas has a -2 against dedede when he has -3's against chars like DK and Marth. I know this isn't the match-up thread, just something that interested me as I was always told as a young Lucas that a good Dedede was more scary than a good Marth.

That only really refers to the chaingrab though so i guess that's ok.

 

[DMG]

Marth is easily harder than Dedede. DK less so, but the cargo shenanigans are also very strong if you don't flerp it up. That aside Lucas would still lose to DK, but yea

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Both DK and Dedede should be +2 vs. Lucas imo

 

[Jrugs]

IDK about

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Marth is only +3, right?

DK not only has more trouble getting the grab, he is a less solid character overall.

 

[Jrugs]

Yeah but doesnt have Africa punch

 

[Grim Tuesday]

True that. I dunno, I'll let the Lucas mains handle it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why is it that whenever people talk about Ganon actually not being the worst character in the game they always mention like Link, Zelda or Jiggs as contenders but never Captain Falcon, who is worse than all of them? Falcon for worst char plz

Sheik has never been considered a Snake counter in Japan as far as I know. The match-up has always floated between +1 and +2 Snake favor, which looks pretty accurate.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

1. Zelda
2/3. Falcon/Ganon
4. Link
-----
5. Bowser
6. Puff
7. Samus

imo

 

[DMG]

Uh, since when is Falcon worse than Zelda?

 

[Z'zgashi]

1. Zelda
2/3. Falcon/Ganon
4. Link
-----
5. Bowser
6. Puff
7. Samus

imo

Idk what it is with people thinking Jiggs is better than Bowser, but shes not. Bowser is better than Ganon/Zelda/Link/Jiggs/Falcon. Hes about as good as Samus, but she has better rep/results so I think she should currently be above Bowser.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Opinions as fact - cool.

Bowser is pretty fat and bad, but when it comes down to that level I don't really care anyway. They are all effectively equally terrible.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bowser / Link
Mario
Puff
Samus
Ganon
Falcon / Zelda

Is what I think the very bottom is like. Link still underrated, Mario still overrated.

 

[C.J.]

if you don't flerp it up.

I still say flarble garble garble. It's so fun to say.

 

[Judo777]

Snake Sheik is almost even on paper (Snake barely wins) but the difficulty of the MU is much harder for Sheik then Snake. She has no maintain a solid juggle for about 18 hits in a row (which can be done) which is hard.

A Snake COUNTER? I don't think so, pick someone like D3, Oli or Marth if you want to do well vs Snake (btw Marth Snake is very similar to Sheik Snake but Marth has an easier time with every major part of the MU, like juggling and getting him off the ground and such),.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Bowser / Link
Mario
Puff
Samus
Ganon
Falcon / Zelda

Is what I think the very bottom is like. Link still underrated, Mario still overrated.

Can someone quote this so Gheb sees it? I'm on his ignore list I think

Link being underrate is pretty interesting; is there any specific player or strat that makes you think that? Not interested in arguing (like I said, they're all trash imo), just want to know what gives you that idea.

 

[DMG]

I still say flarble garble garble. It's so fun to say.

Bowser / Link
Mario
Puff
Samus
Ganon
Falcon / Zelda

Is what I think the very bottom is like. Link still underrated, Mario still overrated.

Falcon is better than Ganon and probably better than Zelda lol