Official BBR Tier List v5

[TheReflexWonder]

Eh we're all scrubs for not going MK XD

This, mostly.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if all of you had done the smart thing and put SL84 on ignore like I did like a year ago, youd all be better off.

 

[-Mars-]

That's actually a fantastic idea.....but then the tier list thread wouldn't be comical anymore.

 

[ShadowLink84]

both usmashes are 8 frames, seems pretty equal to me.

Spelt don't act stupid, I dislike it when you do.

Ok? what does this have to do with anything? did he switch during his matches with tyrant? no.
again, i'm not talking about his counters.
It's like talking to to a brick wall...

his counters have everything to do with his being a viable character.
his jump in the tierlist is completely unwarranted., even more so if we base it of ONE matchup.

but ... this has nothing to do with anything. >_<
you were talking about how foxes switch for their counters, and i brought up examples of fox mains not switching against MK, which is who we were originally talking about.
Please stay on track. and stop changing the topics to fit your needs. we're talking about fox vs mk, not fox vs pikachu, not sonic vs mk.

Don't act stupi SPelt, you know full well the point of my bnging those characters up Acting ignorant to suit your needs is just flat out salty.

You are hyping Fox, you are bringing up how FOx's ahve beaten MK.
So has every other character that I mentioned.
What sepeates Fox from the others? Cause its fox? AGain its hype, Fox hasn't moved much in terms of tournament placing.

You are trying to base your entire argument that the few times an MK lost t FOx, as it him being 5-5, and also to use it as justifying his jump in the tierlist.

Its a bad argument argument.
Fox's still change when they run into bad counters/stage and it is a sign of his viability as character.
Period.
Stop ignoring the cons just t defnd some deluded notion of Fox actually being good.

obviously.

So you agree with my statement then?

When do any mid tiers win tournaments consistently? maybe place consistently, but fox does that just fine.

Dk does it too, yet DK is below Fox. In fact last I recall, Dk's place better overall in comparison to Fox.
THe fact is that Fox hasn't gone UP. He isn't winning tournaments!
He is staying where he is, and yet you are trying t say

"Fox being consistent means he should move up beyond where he currentl is oing, even though he isn't performing according to his tier placement."

Wait what?
Why would a character move UP for being consistent overall? if anything it means they would remain right where they are.

Fox is just generally a better character than DK.

They both suck.

ditto.
but what about pikachu?

What do you mean? In regards to pikachu's planking ability?

Now hen you can show that Fox has overall ben performing BETTER, then I would agree with his jump in the tierlist.
Oh and I also want that explanation how he goes even with MK too. Oh and saying "Fox pplayers SOMETIMES beat MK users" isn't good enough.

 

[Chuee]

What sepeates Fox from the others? Cause its fox? AGain its hype, Fox hasn't moved much in terms of tournament placing.

Maybe.............................because top players for mk and fox have claimed the MU is close?
Mind naming me 5 top mk/sonic players who think the MU is even?

 

[ShadowLink84]

if all of you had done the smart thing and put me on ignore like SL did like a year ago, youd all be better off.

I fix'd it.
by the way even if you dislike someone, the respectful thing to do would at least read their post and respond to them, rather than talk smack about them while having them on ignore.
Life doesn't come with a mute button after all.

Maybe.............................because top players for mk and fox have claimed the MU is close?
Mind naming me 5 top mk/sonic players who think the MU is even?

THEY SAID THE SAME THING IN REGARDS TO FALCO AND DIDDY TOO!
Jesus, why the heck would you believe people by word of mouth?

Sonic mains weren't STUPID and didn't make such proclamations based off of a few victories.

 

[theunabletable]

THEY SAID THE SAME THING IN REGARDS TO FALCO AND DIDDY TOO!

So, ShadowLink, what, in your opinion, is the Falco and Diddy vs MK matchup like?

Surely you'd know a lot, being a Sonic main and all. I mean you already know more than the top MKs and top Fox's do about the MK vs Fox matchup, so SURELY you'd know more about how to play vs Falco and Diddy, right? How big of an advantage would you say that MK has in those matchups?

 

[Spelt]

his counters have everything to do with his being a viable character.
his jump in the tierlist is completely unwarranted., even more so if we base it of ONE matchup.

that's fine. but whether or not he's viable is not my concern, it's what his matchup with MK is. Which you haven't really given me a stable response to. Just evaded the subject over and over again.

These arguments are not only off topic, but almost as bad as "slippery slope" arguments.

"Wow, fox beat a MK and went up 5 spots? well next thing you know sonic will beat an MK and go up 13 spots, and then jigglypuff will beat an MK and fling herself up into SS tier."

Banning meta knight will just lead to snake being banned. and then we'll go down the roster until we hit ganondorf. and then tournaments will consist of people talking to each other about who their character they pick is and what they would do in those situations and what moves they use and then they'll do a couple games of thumb wars to decide who the winner is. but after awhile people will realize thumb wars are broken too and ban those.

You are hyping Fox, you are bringing up how FOx's ahve beaten MK.
So has every other character that I mentioned.
What sepeates Fox from the others? Cause its fox? AGain its hype, Fox hasn't moved much in terms of tournament placing.

No.
I was disproving the argument that MK doesn't have the advantage and that "fox mains generally CP against bad matchups"

You are trying to base your entire argument that the few times an MK lost t FOx, as it him being 5-5, and also to use it as justifying his jump in the tierlist.

but Foxes recently placing better and beating notable MKs does show there is an improvement towards the character.

Its a bad argument argument.
Fox's still change when they run into bad counters/stage and it is a sign of his viability as character.
Period.
Stop ignoring the cons just t defnd some deluded notion of Fox actually being good.

Anyone below like B tier needs a secondary to be viable (AKA not viable. i'd even argue a few characters in B tier aren't viable as well). We are discussing which character is better trash, not that fox is somehow much better than the other characters in the tier he's placed in.

So you agree with my statement then?

Dk does it too, yet DK is below Fox. In fact last I recall, Dk's place better overall in comparison to Fox.
THe fact is that Fox hasn't gone UP. He isn't winning tournaments!
He is staying where he is, and yet you are trying t say

"Fox being consistent means he should move up beyond where he currentl is oing, even though he isn't performing according to his tier placement."

Wait what?
Why would a character move UP for being consistent overall? if anything it means they would remain right where they are.

what are you basing this off of? the ... 4 (?) month old rankings list?

They both suck.

Yup. Who is better trash.

What do you mean? In regards to pikachu's planking ability?.

No, in regards to pikachu countering falco in general, without planking.

 

[ShadowLink84]

that's fine. but whether or not he's viable is not my concern, it's what his matchup with MK is. Which you haven't really given me a stable response to. Just evaded the subject over and over again.

These arguments are not only off topic, but almost as bad as "slippery slope" arguments.

"Wow, fox beat a MK and went up 5 spots? well next thing you know sonic will beat an MK and go up 13 spots, and then jigglypuff will beat an MK and fling herself up into SS tier."

Mhm mhm exactly my point.
Basically my criticism is thus, you and several others are saying "Fox an MK is even" based on a handful of victories over MK's and ignoring the victories MK has over them.

FOx is obviously at a disadvantage, not countered, but a disadvantage.

No.
I was disproving the argument that MK doesn't have the advantage and that "fox mains generally CP against bad matchups"

No you cherry picked.

"Hey guys, this fox doesn't switch! It means something! Fox is even with MK!"

but Foxes recently placing better and beating notable MKs does show there is an improvement towards the character.

So.
Did.
Sonic.

Understand? The same logic you apply now, can be applied back then to justify giving a character like Sonic a huge jump. Sonic on the other hand, doesn't have IC's as a counter.

Anyone below like B tier needs a secondary to be viable (AKA not viable. i'd even argue a few characters in B tier aren't viable as well). We are discussing which character is better trash, not that fox is somehow much better than the other characters in the tier he's placed in.

Anyone not MK needs a secondary to be viable. Period.
We ignore the secondaries and look at he character alone. Otherwise, everyne secondaries MK and we ignor their bad matchups.

My point is Fox is bad and should not move up based on hye.

what are you basing this off of? the ... 4 (?) month old rankings list?

Basing it on overall placement.

Yup. Who is better trash.
[/quote
Fox stil loses.
Lets move him back down.

No, in regards to pikachu countering falco in general, without planking.

Falco gets ***** by planking.
End story.

 

[Spelt]

Loooool, this isn't going anywhere and you're not adding to the argument at all, just showing how stubborn and biased you are.

I could show you results of fox taking #1 in nationals and you'd go "snake wins nationals too. +5 for snake too plz"

for the record, i don't necessarily agree with fox's rise, i actually expected him to fall a couple spots.

But you obviously know nothing about fox and are only trying to disprove his rise on the notion that "he doesn't perform that great in tournaments based off of 4 month old tournament listings" and that he has matchup ratios that none of the respective mains even agree with you on.

 

[Deleted member]

SL, what top ICs have beaten top foxes? None? Wow cool
O and fox severly outcamps Ice climbers too and has aerials that are safe on block? Tight.

Theory fighter go.
Spelt is da bess tho <3

 

[stingers]

i've never actually seen a top MK beat a top Jiggs, honestly I think we might be on to something here

 

[Deleted member]

I know right!

 

[ShadowLink84]

Loooool, this isn't going anywhere and you're not adding to the argument at all, just showing how stubborn and biased you are.

I could show you results of fox taking #1 in nationals and you'd go "snake wins nationals too. +5 for snake too plz"

for the record, i don't necessarily agree with fox's rise, i actually expected him to fall a couple spots.

But you obviously know nothing about fox and are only trying to disprove his rise on the notion that "he doesn't perform that great in tournaments based off of 4 month old tournament listings" and that he has matchup ratios that none of the respective mains even agree with you on.

Laugh, out out out out out out loud?
You could show me fox winning #1 nationals, and you know what? I would probably think you're onto something.
THing is, you're trying to back up something you don't agree with, using information that clearly shows Fox should ahve remained in his current spot.

Let alone for saying "you know nothing of Fox", you clearly have provided such an immense amount of knowledge in regards to Fox right?
That's some inui logic.

Edit: I haven't seen a top Ganondorf lose to a top IC in awhile. QUICK SOMEONE PROVE IT!

 

[Albert.]

WOW I definitely forgot to hit "post quick reply" but the sentiment still stands

It's like SL84 hasn't ever seen TKD play fox.

He's also implying that anybody that has lost to Fox in the past is lazy- but that's not true lol. YUP TYRANT SUCKS cause he's lost to TKD.

Let's also not for that m2k thinks Fox beats or goes even with MK yeah yeah m2k likes to under-rate mk match-ups but STILL I'd take his word over a random BBR'r, anyday.

 

[ShadowLink84]

WOW I definitely forgot to hit "post quick reply" but the sentiment still stands

It's like SL84 hasn't ever seen TKD play fox.

He's also implying that anybody that has lost to Fox in the past is lazy- but that's not true lol. YUP TYRANT SUCKS cause he's lost to TKD.

He is MK. He has the advantage.
you are losing to the PLAYER, not to the character.
Seriously, get out of here with your garbage statemens because its clear you just knee jerk like everyone else does.

Oh but 6 months down the line, I'll probably be the one saying I told you so.

Let's also not for that m2k thinks Fox beats or goes even with MK yeah yeah m2k likes to under-rate mk match-ups but STILL I'd take his word over a random BBR'r, anyday.

M2K made a topic about G&W being the best character.
he also stated Sonic goes even with MK at one point
He also said Didy beats MK.
Oh and Falco.
Now Fox.

Just stop posting you make my head hurt.

 

[Spelt]

Spelt is da bess tho <3

It's like you're reading my mind~

 

[.AC.]

He is MK. He has the advantage.
you are losing to the PLAYER, not to the character.
Seriously, get out of here with your garbage statemens because its clear you just knee jerk like everyone else does.

Oh but 6 months down the line, I'll probably be the one saying I told you so.


M2K made a topic about G&W being the best character.
he also stated Sonic goes even with MK at one point
He also said Didy beats MK.
Oh and Falco.
Now Fox.

Just stop posting you make my head hurt.

fox actually goes even with mk. there is no point as to saying why since it seems pointless.

 

[bigman40]

Hey guys, Ganon da bess.

 

[ShadowLink84]

fox actually goes even with mk. there is no point as to saying why since it seems pointless.

Translation: I can't back up my argument, but let me pretend I actually can so I can maintain my ptide.

At least the bans on DD/Marth/zard infinites provided the reasoning, even if the were flawed.

Hey guys, Gangstadorf da bess.

I don't know why I thought it would be funny

 

[Spelt]

guys don't even bother. arguing with shadowlink is like arguing with one of those people running around the streets screaming and waving the signs about the apocalypse above their heads.

 

[.AC.]

Translation: I can't back up my argument, but let me pretend I actually can so I can maintain my ptide.

At least the bans on DD/Marth/zard infinites provided the reasoning, even if the were flawed.




I don't know why I thought it would be funny

or maybe i do and i just think it is pointless? after all its not like you will change the way you think just because i explain it to you and give you a few examples.

 

[SuSa]

I think everyone just needs to be reminded of this post:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9585089#post9585089

Now can we stop the Mk arguments? =P

 

[.AC.]

yeah man
like mk doesn't have an even matchup man
cus he like wins more man
except fox like goes totally even with him man
like seriously man

 

[Deleted member]

To be real tho, im curious as to why fox loses worse than 40:60 to ICs?
Most characters cant camp ICs nearly as hard as fox, and his vertical acceleration lets him platform camp better than most to avoid uairs.

Thats just what i think im sure there must be a reason that im wrong. Fox is super hard to grab in general tho.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Anyone not MK needs a secondary to be viable. Period.
We ignore the secondaries and look at he character alone. Otherwise, everyne secondaries MK and we ignor their bad matchups.

My point is Fox is bad and should not move up based on hye.

This is false and you very well know it SL. There are quite a few characters that don't have a MU worse than 4:6, which aka, doesn't need a secondary to beat.

edit: Unless Mk can plank.

 

[The Truth!]

Ryu knows.

SL84 this might just be my opinion on your opinion but you really dont seem to know much about fox, or youre being very biased. Like, when others talk about fox's misplacement they seem to bring in a broader context, but you seem to just relentlessly attack fox and it makes almost no sense, its hard to take seriously. I could pull some quotes as examples. Anyways, that just applies to the Fox discussion, feel free to ignore this post.

 

[.AC.]

yeah man
like he knows **** about fox.

 

[bigman40]

Hey guys, guess what? Complaining about Fox's position now won't change anything. The list is out; so, if people want Fox to go into his correct position, stop him from doing so well to prove that he's rightful of his placement.

 

[ShadowLink84]

or maybe i do and i just think it is pointless? after all its not like you will change the way you think just because i explain it to you and give you a few examples.

Or maybe you don't and you just dance around the issue like EC dances around MK?
please.
If you have the data and proof you'd present it.
For all f dark peach's negatives, he at least provides a wealth of data to prove his point.

guys don't even bother. arguing with shadowlink is like arguing with one of those people running around the streets screaming and waving the signs about the apocalypse above their heads.

Ur mom. =3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys, guess what? Complaining about Fox's position now won't change anything. The list is out; so, if people want Fox to go into his correct position, stop him from doing so well to prove that he's rightful of his placement.

Pit's rise last list was BS, people complained and he was shot down the list respectfully.

 

[bigman40]

Pit's rise last list was BS, people complained and he was shot down the list respectfully.

Was it really that? Or was it that Pit didn't show the results to justify that position?

 

[demonictoonlink]

I would just like to point out that, and it's pretty obvious, Spelt beat Shadowlink in an argument...like, legitimately beat him. Spelt for BBR.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I would just like to point out that, and it's pretty obvious, Spelt beat Shadowlink in an argument...like, legitimately beat him. Spelt for BBR.

Make him MBR too.

 

[.AC.]

spelt for bbr

i approve.

 

[Spelt]

I would just like to point out that, and it's pretty obvious, Spelt beat Shadowlink in an argument...like, legitimately beat him. Spelt for BBR.

Happiest day of my life. ;_;

 

[Zajice]

I want Spelt in the MBR so he can make Pichu top tier.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I want Spelt in the MBR so he can make Pichu top tier.

Mewtwo is top tier. Haven't you played the games?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Was it really that? Or was it that Pit didn't show the results to justify that position?

People said he didn't have it before the previous list was out, he still didn't own up and dropped.

 

[ShadowLink84]

This is false and you very well know it SL. There are quite a few characters that don't have a MU worse than 4:6, which aka, doesn't need a secondary to beat.

edit: Unless Mk can plank.

Okay okay fine I exaggerated, but you understand my point Ryu.