Official BBR Tier List v5

[Poltergust]

Don't you mean best dash grab? Yoshi's (along with Olimar's and King Dedede's) pivot-grab are definitely better than Ness'.

 

[Espy Rose]

We also dont have anything harder than 65:35 MUs and we dont have any infinites on us. We also have chains and an infinite.
Ness gets gayed by at least marth and has a really big weakness in Grab releases. You dont have any chains or infinites.

We have a good recovery with mixups, a great projectile, and have physics on our side with his heavy weight and fast speed in both the air and on the ground.
Ness has a gimpable and predictable recovery, his projectiles need to be used up close, and he's only a midweight and still has only average to below average speed all around.

Aside from Yoshi's shield, which he wont be using anyways, Yoshi is better on paper as well. When it comes to matchups, Yoshi doesn't get shut down by anyone while Ness still has his terrible MU(s).

Yoshi > Ness

Nonsense. Ness has a chaingrab against:

-Ness
-Lucas.

 

[Spelt]

Maybe olimar, but i don't see how yoshi's or d3's are better than ness'.
pivot grab is yoshi's best grab, sure, but that doesn't means it's the best in the game.



also, lol @ espy.

 

[Z'zgashi]

PSI Magnet? **** that **** im yoshi, imma camp him all day.

His fair wont reach me if I space with my superior all around speed and bait it, cuz we all know it's either that or bair which we beat with practically everything anyway.

Yoshi's pivot grab is far superior to Ness's. Better range with the same lag, plus the ability to GR > usmash him afterwards which kills at roughly the same time his bthrow would, but does more damage.

Try again spelt.

 

[Spelt]

Yeah ... i wasn't talking about the yoshi vs ness mu.
at all.
i couldn't care less about the yoshi thread mu bias which makes you think the matchup is 70:30 or whatever.

 

[hunger!]

Hunger used the CG last time they played.

not 3rd round. i purposely picked a stage we could both play super legit on. Brinstar. no chaingrabs and just aerial **** on both sides. was a fun set.

and people shouldnt be talking about me. im terrible at this game and rarely play it anymore so w/e have fun.

KAIN DA BESS WOLF EVER!

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, Z'zgashi, his f-air does cause some problems. It can be pretty hard to punish at times.

Still, there's no way his pivot-grab is better than Yoshi's. That doesn't make any sense.

EDIT: Yoshi's pivot-grab may not be the best, but it's definitely top 3. I only consider Olimar and Dedede to have better ones. No other character in the game has that much range with their pivot-grab with such low lag.

EDIT2: Well, maybe Charizard... not sure.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah ... i wasn't talking about the yoshi vs ness mu.
at all.
i couldn't care less about the yoshi thread mu bias which makes you think the matchup is 70:30 or whatever.

And i apparently wasn't talking to anyone who knows anything about Ness or Yoshi.

@Polt: yeah, I know, but it's ALL HE HAS and we have far more options in practically every situation against everyone in the game.

 

[Conviction]

I'm wondering how Ness has the best pivot grab in the game...

 

[Chuee]

me too.
fdfdfdfd

 

[Conviction]

He doesn't really slide far. Does he get a disjoint or something?

 

[bigman40]

I guess he freezes the game like our grab does when you grab out fast enough.

 

[BSP]

Tierlist time! (numbers in brackets show the difference to the current tierlist)


TOP
S: (0)(+1)(-1)(0)

HIGH
A: (+3)(-1)(-1)(+1)(-2)(0)

MIDDLE
B: (+1)(+1)(+3) (0)(+3)(-1)(0)(+2)(+3)(-1)(+3)
C: (+1)(+2)(-13)(-4)(0)(0)(0)(0)

LOW
D: (0)(0)(0)
E: (+1)(+2)(+2)(-3)(-2)
Ganon: (0)


That's how I see it atm. Still unsure about some placings though... (mostly the order of the mid tier characters)

MK is still in a tier of his own IMO. The others aren't even close.

You put Wolf above peach, but didn't put Sonic above her too? And Pit getting a rise? For what?

Oh and scratch what I said earlier. Sonic's not ready for B yet at all (silly me >.>). That IS a really big jump to make on a few (though major) placements. But still, he could end up at top of C imo. When I say B and C, I'm talking about the tiers of the current list.

I don't know GaW that well, but I don't think he's THAT bad lol

 

[Coney]

[Ness has] best pivot grab in the game,

EDIT -

but i don't see how d3's pivot grab is better than ness'.

WHAT THE **** AM I READING

 

[Conviction]

I guess he freezes the game like our grab does when you grab out fast enough.

Lol maybe

^ that me lol

EDIT: I can actually see you doing that Coney loool

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

not 3rd round. i purposely picked a stage we could both play super legit on. Brinstar. no chaingrabs and just aerial **** on both sides. was a fun set.

and people shouldnt be talking about me. im terrible at this game and rarely play it anymore so w/e have fun.

KAIN DA BESS WOLF EVER!

Thought you used it there or at one point during the set.

LOL Hunger name searchs

 

[Steam]

yoshi loses to lucario, who is a trash character. therefore yoshi is the worst character in the game. /thread

Sonic needs his own Stier that divides C-tier in half.

MK should be below ganon to represent MKs ability to shark/plank/scrooge

 

[Conviction]

Spelt...don't back out now tell us why you said Ness has the best Pivot Grab in the game. You have to have some reason...I really want to know

 

[Atomsk_92]

i like how you completely ignored all of the good things about ness.

amazing fair, best pivot grab in the game, bthrow, he doesn't camped as hard as other characters because of his magnet, etc

Aren't DDD Marth Fox and Charizard's better?

 

[Poltergust]

yoshi loses to lucario, who is a trash character. therefore yoshi is the worst character in the game. /thread

Sonic needs his own Stier that divides C-tier in half.

I know this is a joke, but I like how you call Yoshi terrible because he loses to Lucario and then talk about Sonic like that.

 

[Conviction]

Aren't DDD Marth Fox and Charizard's better?

I would think Yoshi would be added to that list too

 

[Poltergust]

And Olimar. His may be slow, but it has ridiculous range.

 

[Conviction]

How could I forget...Lol

 

[Z'zgashi]

Fox's pivot grab is pretty good cuz if his boost grab, but I dont know if it's top... Fancy though lol

Tbh, Im not even sure how good it is...

 

[Ripple]

Charizard's grab is already really good. technically he is the only character not to get an additional grab bubble on his pivot grab.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Charizard's pivot grab is pretty good, I guess, yeah. I wouldn't say it's as good as Yoshi's or Dedede's, especially when Charizard wishes his grab box was larger vertically, because Charizard is tall. That said, it's still fast with excellent range, but it's not close to top tier, since it doesn't get a ridiculous disjoint, like, say, Snake.

WHAT THE **** AM I READING

OH, MY. Where do you get these reaction GIFs?!

 

[Conviction]

Fox's pivot grab is pretty good cuz if his boost grab, but I dont know if it's top... Fancy though lol

Tbh, Im not even sure how good it is...

Fox's pivot grab has slight disjoint (I still lol at it)

The boost pivot is amazing I love sliding while grabbing someone who was approaching with a shield dash grab

EDIT: Yoshi's and DDD's pivot grab are better though IMO I know Fox's Pivot grab comes out the fastest though (Frame 6?)

 

[Hylian]

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because if they grab you then you die.

If you defeat that logic:

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because they grab twice.

gl hf no re

 

[Chuee]

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because if they grab you then you die.

If you defeat that logic:

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because they grab twice.

gl hf no re

but they're Eskimos

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because if they grab you then you die.

If you defeat that logic:

Ice Climbers have the best pivot grab because they grab twice.

gl hf no re

It's mostly defeated by the fact that the character trips twice as often.

GET AT ME

 

[Hylian]

What does tripping have to do with how good their grab is? They don't trip both at once(usually) so there is still at least one grab out like everyone else.

Try again.

 

[Conviction]

....

I...can...do this.... Don't hate me....

Don't get grabbed

Illogical thinking>Logical thinking

WTF 3 POST BEFORE I COULD POST, UNREAL

 

[Poltergust]

And that their grab-range still sucks.

Iblis, apparently Fox's pivot-grab comes out frame 9. That's almost the same as Yoshi's (frame 10).

 

[Chuee]

What does tripping have to do with how good there grab is? They don't trip both at once(usually) so there is still at least one grab out like everyone else.

Try again.

because they might trip if they pivot grab. and if they trip they might bruise their knee.

 

[Conviction]

>.> who lied to me someone told me Fox's Pivot grab was the fastest...but it looks faster than our Usmash though....ha weird.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What does tripping have to do with how good there grab is? They don't trip both at once(usually) so there is still at least one grab out like everyone else.

Try again.

When one trips, the grab becomes pretty bad, though, 'cause it's impossible to get a chaingrab off if the person attempts to break out. Good range and everything, but...

@Poltergust--Their pivot grab range is actually pretty large, for some reason.

 

[Conviction]

I got another reason, pull a NAKAT and when you get grabbed jump up out of your seat and make the IC player flinch!

It has the same properties as Pokemon flinching!

EDIT: LOL I'm actually happy with this post as my 3,333rd post!

 

[Z'zgashi]

Iblis with the win post count. 3333.

 

[Vinnie]

That's why vinnie used sheik LOL

>namesearch

what?

 

[Yink]

Very slow:

We also dont have anything harder than 65:35 MUs and we dont have any infinites on us. We also have chains and an infinite.
Ness gets gayed by at least marth and has a really big weakness in Grab releases. You dont have any chains or infinites.

We have a good recovery with mixups, a great projectile, and have physics on our side with his heavy weight and fast speed in both the air and on the ground.
Ness has a gimpable and predictable recovery, his projectiles need to be used up close, and he's only a midweight and still has only average to below average speed all around.

Aside from Yoshi's shield, which he wont be using anyways, Yoshi is better on paper as well. When it comes to matchups, Yoshi doesn't get shut down by anyone while Ness still has his terrible MU(s).

Yoshi > Ness

Ness gets gayed by Marth and DDD, which as we know, they get knocked out by MK in tournaments (realistically anyways, because Marth and DDD have trouble against MK). If we're gonna go by results, which is what you initially went by I'd like to think Ness undoubtably has better accomplishments. I'm gonna say "Hey guess what I'm a Ness main so here's some bias", but try to keep it as limited as possible.

And you didn't talk about killing btw. You may be heavy, but Ness generally does not have any real big problems killing. Ness has reliable kill moves. You know, the highest knockback scaling throw in the game, bair, nair, dair (aerials in general besides fair).

Ness has like 3 terrible matchups, 2 of which are eliminated by MK for the most part and one is rarely seen (Pokemon Trainer). I was also under the impression that Fox, Falco and Wolf gave Yoshi trouble.

I mean you're still titled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.